HIGH CONSISTENCY? Can this be breed,or is it a rare trait?Looking at trial records only a hand full of dogs consistly place 1,2,or 3 in all the National dog trials they entered...
That make's one think that alpha traits my play a part....If so,picking a pup that shows Alpha Traits could make it easier to pick a pup from a look-a-like pups litter of pups,,
Many of these also ran dogs in record books, Win, but not consistly,and were handeled by reknown trainers and handlers... environment and training is part of the equasion, but bloodlines and select breeding is a must.
Gary
Selecting The Best Pups
IS THIS THE ANSWER WE NEED......
Eight months ago I picked two pups from a litter of 8,these two pups
have had a lot of fun bird exposer, but the field trial judges placed one in 1st place over the other today in puppy stakes.......is this the approach that we should be takeing......?OR will we be sorry another year from now if 2nd pup is sold prematurely and makes the better dog?
NOT QUITE,for the pup still needs to be consistant,so more time will be required.
Eight months ago I picked two pups from a litter of 8,these two pups
have had a lot of fun bird exposer, but the field trial judges placed one in 1st place over the other today in puppy stakes.......is this the approach that we should be takeing......?OR will we be sorry another year from now if 2nd pup is sold prematurely and makes the better dog?
NOT QUITE,for the pup still needs to be consistant,so more time will be required.
Gary,
I believe that I follow you on this.... Tell me if I am not....
You have litter mates that have competed against each other and one is place up higher by a judge and you are wondering how many of these dogs get washed out?
Well I would guess not many. Even more so in a puppy and a Derby dog. No expert but I have heard of many fine Derbys never amount to much and vise versa a crappy derby going on to make a NFC. One thing it does show the holes in what you put down and gives you an idea what to work on...
I have asked myself this many times when I hear about my pups I sold.
I believe that I follow you on this.... Tell me if I am not....
You have litter mates that have competed against each other and one is place up higher by a judge and you are wondering how many of these dogs get washed out?
Well I would guess not many. Even more so in a puppy and a Derby dog. No expert but I have heard of many fine Derbys never amount to much and vise versa a crappy derby going on to make a NFC. One thing it does show the holes in what you put down and gives you an idea what to work on...
I have asked myself this many times when I hear about my pups I sold.
Tak
Thanks for your comments,It has been a delema for me to try and pick one pup over the other at this age.
These two pups are from same litter,had the the same bird exposure,but one being more consistant than the other is what we all would like to see.
Puppy and a Derby dogs do wash out and do not go on to win,but a lot of this may be because of breeding,birdwork etc.....but the alpha pups seems to me be more consistant later on.This one pup is an Alpha 1 and cannot stand to not be in front of his bracemates.
Getting someone to take a pup and expose it to all the things that you would give the pick-of-litter is hard to find and if you think you might have found the right person and if he let's or she you down, what next?Some have stated a written contract might be the answer if aggreeable to all parties.
Thanks for your comments,It has been a delema for me to try and pick one pup over the other at this age.
These two pups are from same litter,had the the same bird exposure,but one being more consistant than the other is what we all would like to see.
Puppy and a Derby dogs do wash out and do not go on to win,but a lot of this may be because of breeding,birdwork etc.....but the alpha pups seems to me be more consistant later on.This one pup is an Alpha 1 and cannot stand to not be in front of his bracemates.
Getting someone to take a pup and expose it to all the things that you would give the pick-of-litter is hard to find and if you think you might have found the right person and if he let's or she you down, what next?Some have stated a written contract might be the answer if aggreeable to all parties.
Some Alpha pups can also be the the one that is the hardest to train, or the untrainable. The most desirable dog to me is the male that has high drive, loads of desire, but has a low pain threshold. It takes little correction toget a point across, they usually have a high desire to please an work hard for you.
brenda
Unless you are forced to pick, I wouldn't! I have seen it go both ways. Littermates hunting side by side and one is more. It could be a maturity thing or it could be a attention thing.
I had a litter 2 years ago that nearly everyone selected two pups each. One gent called me when they were about 8 months and wa concerned with one of the females. One was pointing, running, retrieving and just getting it done. The other sat back and just let the other dog do the work. He was running them both together too. We talked about it and I told him run her alone and see if she will step it up. Well it worked, in fact I think he likes the other dog better know.
I had a litter 2 years ago that nearly everyone selected two pups each. One gent called me when they were about 8 months and wa concerned with one of the females. One was pointing, running, retrieving and just getting it done. The other sat back and just let the other dog do the work. He was running them both together too. We talked about it and I told him run her alone and see if she will step it up. Well it worked, in fact I think he likes the other dog better know.
Quote Brenda;Some Alpha pups can also be the the one that is the hardest to train, or the untrainable.
Thanks Brenda,you have made a great point and when I meet one I will remember this.....
Thick headed Dogs like some Labs that we saw win the Nationals year after year were forced trained with a chain.....that's not for me
and I agree a hard going trainable dog is a pleasure...
Thanks Brenda,you have made a great point and when I meet one I will remember this.....
Thick headed Dogs like some Labs that we saw win the Nationals year after year were forced trained with a chain.....that's not for me
and I agree a hard going trainable dog is a pleasure...
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reedauction
I say go with your gut instinct..Sounds like either way you go, you are going to have a solid dog that will compete at the level you wish. I all ways find that if my heart or gut is telling me to go one way..FOLLOW IT..Once you decide..dont look back, stay with your decision and make the very best of what you choose.
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kninebirddog
- GDF Premier Member!
- Posts: 7846
- Joined: Sat Dec 25, 2004 12:45 am
- Location: Coolidge AZ
I like to look for a pup that isn't afraid of exploring new things around them ...This doesn't mean the ALPHA pup..
I like to observe each pup by themselves and expose them to different little things like a noisey kids toy the ones that when this is dropped in front of them do they run away from it or do they stop observe then go and check it out or do they think it is something to play with and show no fear or reserve about it..
take a soft towel do they pick it up and do the proud look what i got prance with it and then the same thing with a ball rolling it in front of them
fresh bird scent does this excite them or even a frozen bird does the smell have the same excitement factor
these are things i look for in a pup I really do not like Alpha tendencies this is aggressive dominanting behaviors which should be left for more experience type of handlers as they will require a bit more control not that they won't make a great dog but they will require more
I like Bold and no fear or very little reserve about new situations
I like to see a pup that is exceptant of being handled they may struggle to start but give ....the ones that just start to bite at your hands this is a sign of what they may do in the future should you handle them harshly...Not that they will be a biter in general but it is a reation to something they do not like
I then like to watch the pup interact with another pup...then add a toy in the scene like the ball or towel....I like to see interaction not aggression towards each other this can be an indication of what could happen more likely in the field if already displaying this behavior as a pup
This is a general not an excact as many other factors can change a dogs behaviour when in different hands ...But it is a general idea of what the pups tendency's are and what you have to work with....ones that a comapnion hunter wants for hunting and pet i like to see that the pup which is more inclined to attention be with them as they may not be bold enough for the all out trial..not that they wouldn't make it in a hunting type trial format ...but they may not get WAY out there as they are showing more of a tendancy to want to check in a bit more then a bold get out there hi thanks for the pat lets go type personality pup..again i say these are the tendancies ...evirnomant after that will also have an effect on pups once they are away from the pack and they way they are handled....may reserve a more bolder type pup or may get a reserved type pup to get out further...but it is all what is built in to or taken away from in the rearing of the pup
I like to observe each pup by themselves and expose them to different little things like a noisey kids toy the ones that when this is dropped in front of them do they run away from it or do they stop observe then go and check it out or do they think it is something to play with and show no fear or reserve about it..
take a soft towel do they pick it up and do the proud look what i got prance with it and then the same thing with a ball rolling it in front of them
fresh bird scent does this excite them or even a frozen bird does the smell have the same excitement factor
these are things i look for in a pup I really do not like Alpha tendencies this is aggressive dominanting behaviors which should be left for more experience type of handlers as they will require a bit more control not that they won't make a great dog but they will require more
I like Bold and no fear or very little reserve about new situations
I like to see a pup that is exceptant of being handled they may struggle to start but give ....the ones that just start to bite at your hands this is a sign of what they may do in the future should you handle them harshly...Not that they will be a biter in general but it is a reation to something they do not like
I then like to watch the pup interact with another pup...then add a toy in the scene like the ball or towel....I like to see interaction not aggression towards each other this can be an indication of what could happen more likely in the field if already displaying this behavior as a pup
This is a general not an excact as many other factors can change a dogs behaviour when in different hands ...But it is a general idea of what the pups tendency's are and what you have to work with....ones that a comapnion hunter wants for hunting and pet i like to see that the pup which is more inclined to attention be with them as they may not be bold enough for the all out trial..not that they wouldn't make it in a hunting type trial format ...but they may not get WAY out there as they are showing more of a tendancy to want to check in a bit more then a bold get out there hi thanks for the pat lets go type personality pup..again i say these are the tendancies ...evirnomant after that will also have an effect on pups once they are away from the pack and they way they are handled....may reserve a more bolder type pup or may get a reserved type pup to get out further...but it is all what is built in to or taken away from in the rearing of the pup
"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
"When I hear somebody talk about a horse or cow being stupid, I figure its a sure sign that the animal has outfoxed them." Tom Dorrance
If you feel like you are banging your head against the wall, try using the door.
"When I hear somebody talk about a horse or cow being stupid, I figure its a sure sign that the animal has outfoxed them." Tom Dorrance
If you feel like you are banging your head against the wall, try using the door.
Picking a pup is such a toss of the dice. I picked a pup a couple of yrs ago that stood out from 3 wks on. Was the one everybody wanted, including me. She had every oppurtunity to turn in to the best. Was the biggest dud I have seen in a long, long time. She is finally starting to show someething. Who knows!
brenda
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kninebirddog
- GDF Premier Member!
- Posts: 7846
- Joined: Sat Dec 25, 2004 12:45 am
- Location: Coolidge AZ
the trick to the dice toss is starting with the best info you got....good breeding stock is probably the most important thing not just that the papers have champions and such but also that the dam and sire have what your looking for...then a bit of puppy appitude test to POTENTIALY show what you have to start working with.....then you still have everything else to factor in....and how the pup matures in the long run....some may take a bit longer to get to the potential....But it is much easier to reach a potential with a pup that has all the drive in the first place then one that is afraid of it's own shadow...guess this is were socialization handling and not letting a pup go till it is old enough...which to me 7 weeks is the earliest i prefer 8-10 weeks ...but any sooner then that is to soon for the pup one week makes a hugh difference in puppies they grow so fast and have to learn so much in a short period of time interaction witht the mother and siblings helps set the ground rules for them ....no need to rush them any faster
"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
"When I hear somebody talk about a horse or cow being stupid, I figure its a sure sign that the animal has outfoxed them." Tom Dorrance
If you feel like you are banging your head against the wall, try using the door.
"When I hear somebody talk about a horse or cow being stupid, I figure its a sure sign that the animal has outfoxed them." Tom Dorrance
If you feel like you are banging your head against the wall, try using the door.