Gun Dog Forum

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2 ... _foia.html

April 20, 2009
The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has confirmed that the agency is investigating NUTRO pet food, following a series of unexplained illnesses and deaths. Consumers have been complaining for more than two years that their pets have become ill after eating NUTRO products; many have recovered when they were switched to other foods. The company has steadfastly denied that its food is to blame.

Until now, the FDA has been mum about whether it was actively investigating the company. Today, the FDA’s Division of Freedom of Information confirmed the agency has an ongoing investigation into NUTRO — and said that investigation could be criminal or civil in nature. The office did not elaborate on the nature or focus of that investigation.

The investigation came to light when the FDA denied a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request by ConsumerAffairs.com seeking a list of complaints and lab results the agency has collected regarding NUTRO pet food. The agency denied the request and said that releasing the information could hamper “prospective or ongoing” action by law enforcement.

“The document(s) constitute record(s) compiled for law enforcement purposes, the disclosure of which could reasonably be expected to interfere with enforcement proceedings,” wrote the FDA’s George A. Strait, Jr., assistant commissioner for public affairs.

NVM, this is what I was talkign about...click link for rest of story.

ezzy333 wrote:Not dogs, just dog food. :roll:

Ezzy

How mature.

megschristina wrote:

ezzy333 wrote:Not dogs, just dog food. :roll:

Ezzy

How mature.

Thank you.

Ezzy

Hi Grant, I use and sell Black Gold Premium Dog Food. Both my GSP and Wirehaired are doing great on it. I have several bird hunters and houndsmans that are using Black Gold and swear by it. Add it to your list. Thanks

Submitted my vote for the poll.....Blue Buffalo for us.

We used to feed Purina. (for 25 years) Pro Plan to our working dogs and Dog Chow to our fosters or rescues while there were with us. We left Pro Plan when they started messing with the formula. By the time that they went back to the old formulas we were hooked on Blue. We love it. I have seen a huge improvement in energy levels, health, coats, everything.

Switched Leena's food a few weeks ago. The other kibble just wasnt agreeing with her stomach. She is currently eating Taste of the Wild. She is doing really well on it. She's actually gained weight and I had to cut back how much she gets.

Zio easily transitioned from Exceed to Evo Large Bites. Too soon to tell how well it works for him, though...

I started feeding the purina shredded chicken and my dogs just love it, and they are really lookin healthy. 30.00---35lbs Tractor supply. SONNY, Hard to beat the checkerboard brand.

I feed about 50% raw, Oma's Chicken Grind, Green tripe, Primal's Sardine Grind, Goats Milk Yogurt/Kefir, steamed carrots & apples - the other 50% is Abady granular, but have used other dry foods in the past.

I clicked other because I feed Pro-Plan.
You probably should have broken some or the Purina brands out.
dennmor

Ole Roy, I tried Purina, and Pedigree, and they just didn't eat it not even as pups. One day got some ole roy from walmart and they chomped it all down, they love the stuff.

perezalf wrote:Ole Roy, I tried Purina, and Pedigree, and they just didn't eat it not even as pups. One day got some ole roy from walmart and they chomped it all down, they love the stuff.

I tried Ol' Roy, my dogs loved the tase but their coats got dull and they got dry skin and started scratching a lot.
I do live in Colorado where the air tends to be quite dry.

dennmor

I use Innova EVO and Blue Buffalo Wilderness and my dogs are doing great. They love these two foods. I switch to less protien formulas of both brands in the off season. I started with Purina and tried a few other brands but my one shorthair always had runny stools, never had solid stools so I tried a few other brands with the same results. My other shorthair didn't ever eat a feeding time, never wanted the food when I fed. She would eat, just went two days sometimes before she would clean up her bowl. Since I switched both dogs eat immediately when I feed and there coats look great. The stools for the one shorthair are now normal as well. The up front cost seems to be quite a bit more but when I put it to paper it actually comes out about the same, less feed needed per feeding and less crap to clean up later.

I had the same results with Ol' Roy, dry skin and dull coats!

i used to use exceed from sams club but they dont stock it anymore so we switched to black gold

I use "bleep" Van Patten Natural balance.
It scored well here: http://www.the-puppy-dog-place.com/dog- ... tings.html

I supplement with a little lean chicken in chicken broth and a fish oil capsule.

Calisdad wrote:I use "bleep" Van Patten Natural balance.
It scored well here: http://www.the-puppy-dog-place.com/dog- ... tings.html

I supplement with a little lean chicken in chicken broth and a fish oil capsule.

The site you linked to is a marketing tool of a dogfood company. I see little validity to Sarah Iricks grading system other than to show that any feed that isn't Blue is not good. I have not read it in depth but a couple of questions come to mind before I start. Who is Sarah Iricks? What are her qualifications? Where did she go to school and whaere did she get her degree? What research is she basing her recommendations on? Why is she pushing real meat while saying meat meals of any kind are bad? What is the problem with by-product meals? And why are the pages all filled with Blue ads if there is any validity to an impartial research project?

Till those questions are answered I do not think it has any importance in teaching any of us a thing about dog food.

Ezzy

How about this one?
http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/

Wlfdg wrote:How about this one?
http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/

Well, It is an opioninated website comprised of a board of editors who have an interest in animal nutrition.....and that was taken directly off there website.


Again it's there opinion, take it for what it's worth.

Chip

ezzy333 wrote:

Calisdad wrote:I use "bleep" Van Patten Natural balance.
It scored well here: http://www.the-puppy-dog-place.com/dog- ... tings.html

I supplement with a little lean chicken in chicken broth and a fish oil capsule.

The site you linked to is a marketing tool of a dogfood company. I see little validity to Sarah Iricks grading system other than to show that any feed that isn't Blue is not good. I have not read it in depth but a couple of questions come to mind before I start. Who is Sarah Iricks? What are her qualifications? Where did she go to school and whaere did she get her degree? What research is she basing her recommendations on? Why is she pushing real meat while saying meat meals of any kind are bad? What is the problem with by-product meals? And why are the pages all filled with Blue ads if there is any validity to an impartial research project?

Till those questions are answered I do not think it has any importance in teaching any of us a thing about dog food.

Ezzy

Maybe I'm slow but I didn't see how it promotes any particular dog food company as it give you the formula and lets you rate any food you wish. As far as by-product meals, what would you rather eat: chicken breast or a chicken lip burger ? It also takes into account preservatives which are known cancer causeing agents, salt etc. Most people forget that kibble didn't exist before 1950 and our dogs lived much longer and still do where its not used. I don't even give my dogs tap water becuse I don't think their systems were designed to filter chlorine. Buts that's just me- some (most) find that odd.

btw- I didn't know the nickname for Richard was a censorable word. I'll watch it in the future.

Calisdad wrote: Maybe I'm slow but I didn't see how it promotes any particular dog food company as it give you the formula and lets you rate any food you wish. As far as by-product meals, what would you rather eat: chicken breast or a chicken lip burger ? It also takes into account preservatives which are known cancer causeing agents, salt etc. Most people forget that kibble didn't exist before 1950 and our dogs lived much longer and still do where its not used. I don't even give my dogs tap water becuse I don't think their systems were designed to filter chlorine. Buts that's just me- some (most) find that odd.

btw- I didn't know the nickname for Richard was a censorable word. I'll watch it in the future.

It is put out by the people who are employed by the company that makes Blue. The whole thing has ads for it.

Just to set the record straight, the formulas for the different feeds are not public knowledge and are not given in the article. They do take a list of the ingredients that is published but it is impossible to use those and know what the fromula is.

As far as by-products meal, I would rather eat the chicken probably, though we do eat a lot of by-products too, such as chicken hotdogs plus many others. And we do know that what we eat and what a dog eats need to be different since their tastes and requirements have little connection to a humans needs or taste. And the truth is the by-product meal is much more nutritious than the meat by itself. Its from the "chicken lips" that the dog gets the fats, minerals, and all of the other good stuff for the joints.

There are some preservatives that are suspected to be cancer causing at certain levels and if they are they can't be used at those levels. The reason that preservatives were used and still are is to keep the food we eat fit for consumption and to reduce the medical problems that used to be caused by spoiled food. I would rather be exposed to a remote possibility of cancer than dead from botulism, which is the side of the arguement that you never read about from the people who promote natural things only. We need to thank the scientist that have worked so hard to find ways to keep our foods healthy so we can live long enough to complain about how bad everything is for us.

Your comment about longevity being greater before kibble was made and used is just plain 100% wrong and there is nothing else to say about it.

About the water I have no idea if they filter chlorine and different than any other animal but I know it has not caused and problems over the years. I would bet a dog can filter most anything after seeing them stirup mud puddles before they drink, watching them eat cat, horse, and pigeon poop and lick their lips when through, or seeing them pick up roten carcasses and seem to enjoy them to eat and to roll in.

AAll of these thing s a re just normal for a dog and pretty well demonstrates a few of the differences between the dog and human spieces. I just can't find the basis of tryong to compare their needs or desires to ourselves and I do know that when they are teated as human they sure aren't healthier and they sure don't act happier. That said, it is wonderful we live in a country where so far, even though it is changing rapidly, you can feed what you like and our dogs are able to handle it and most can live a long and healthy life.

Ezzy

I will have to agree with Ezzy on ingredients but clearly not on brands. There are several grades of every ingredient in dog food whether its protein, grain or fat. I would rather feed the best grade of by-product, fresh or meal, than the worst or even medium grade of meat, fresh or meal. Generally, "fresh chicken meat" in a dog food is the carcass with some meat left on it, it is definitely not Bell and Evans breast, leg and thigh meat.

The whole term "by-product" is misleading because stomach, liver, kidney, internal fat, skin & marrow are far more nutricious than the rest of the animal. Even today's pet dog would be better served eating just that.

I wouldn't decide on a pet food based on whether it had by-products or not, rather whether the quaility of the by-products was good.

i feed sportmix was feeding diamond

amos gets nothing but purina,if you try anything else it would not be wise

snowicreek wrote:amos gets nothing but purina,if you try anything else it would not be wise

Interesting................................................................


Our whole kennel of working dogs, that is dogs that work for a living get exceed from Sams.

birddog1968 wrote:

snowicreek wrote:amos gets nothing but purina,if you try anything else it would not be wise

Interesting................................................................


Our whole kennel of working dogs, that is dogs that work for a living get exceed from Sams.

and my dogs, who hunt at least 6 hours each week, if not more, do really well on Kirtland from CostCo.

Currently switching over to Iams I was using Innova and had great luck but my Supplier was always running out and it became a pain to keep it on hand.

For nearly 25 years I go back and forth from Purina and always go back to it. Currently I'm feeding Wellness.

i don't use this food but i work at a dog food store and a lot of the hunting customers feed it to there dog, the food is called Nutri Source, the food i feed is Fromms

Sport mix, dogs love it, do well on it, it is available close to home and very inexpensive.

Charlie

There was a brand called ProSeries available in New England that a friend had that I cant find. Has anyone tried it?

I feed Tast of the Wild. Gunner likes it and does well on it. Shiny coat and no GI issues. Have fed this brand to my dogs for a while now including my Great Pyrenee, who had food issues.

Chris

Sportmix

birddogger wrote:Sport mix, dogs love it, do well on it, it is available close to home and very inexpensive.

Charlie

Charlie,

Just curious.
How much do you pay for Sportmix and which formula do you feed?

Thanks,
Jeff

I use the black bag [24/20] and I am paying 19.66 including tax for 50# bag.

Charlie

Black Gold

I can't remember if I posted here or not, but I think there are many good feeds. Most dogs do well on most good feeds. I use Loyall Active Adult. I used to use Diamond Premium or Hunters Edge, but Loyall is a step up, and is as good as other more expensive feeds. I pay 67.5 a pound after a $3 bag coupon. That's more than some other feeds, but is a very efficiently used feed. Some people pay a dollar a pound or more for feed that's not any better, which is kinda silly in my mind.

PPP

Feed the most expensive food you can buy and if the dog won't eat it it's no good. You can find a food for any dog that it may not eat, doesn't mean the food is bad. Only food I ever saw every dog always eat was "Biscuit". Only problem was I had to buy it by the ton or couldn't get it here. Been feeding Pedigree for a whole lot of years. Dog's do well on it and most dog's like it. I also used to get $3.50 off a bag in the breeder program.

First premiun food I tried was Nutro Max. Long time ago and never had a problem. Have no idea what it's like now. My reason for starting Peddigree was I wanted a food I could get in most grocery store's in the country. At the same time it had to be a food the dogs did well on. Tried a bunch of different feed' and this worked out the best. At one time I fed Purina Hi Pro but found a dead rat in a bag. Called Purina and they weren't concerned about it. Threw the rest away and never bought Purina products again. Untill that time the dog's did well on it. Probably the only rat that ever made it that far but it was in a bag I paid for and was feeding my dog's.

Blue Buffalo "Wilderness" chicken

Diamond High Energy for my adult dogs, and PMI exclusive when we have puppies. I really like the Red Flannel, but it is pretty pricey compared to the Diamond around here.

Gentlemen,
I use a mixture of Exceed from Sams with Diamond Large Breed, Plus 60, 3 - 44lb bags of Exceed to one 40lb bag of Diamond Large Breed plus 60. Have been feeding our Grouse dogs in this way for many years, our dogs also get Deer meat mixed in with their food twice a week during Grouse season. Some of our dogs have lived to be over 18 years old, with few if any health problems. We have a 14 year old Small Munsterlander right now, and he is not done hunting yet.
RGD/Dave

I experimented with several Diamond formulas, PPP, Exceed, and TOTW, but have finally settled on Loyall. Good coats, small stools, no gas, teeth stay pretty clean, and my 50-pound dogs look good on just 2 1/2 cups per day. I feed the 31/20 Professional during the hunting season, and the Performance formula the rest of the year.

Kirkland from Costco.

LOYALL all the way. I would like to see this poll redone with Loyall added to it.

eagle pack

blue buffalo wilderness

Were feeding Taste of the wild. Its a grain free dog food that has Roasted Venison and Bison as its main ingrediant, and our puppy LOVES LOVES LOVES it.

Go grain-free. We will be using Taste of the Wild dry food. Here's a list of grain free brands.