A light weight auto loader

Jedi Woodsman · Post by **Jedi Woodsman** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 10:40 am

I'm thinking about looking for a light wieght autolaoder. My Remington 11-87 is heavy to just carry out to the field all day. It's more for a waterfowl and deer gun. Any ideas?
I would like to spend no more than 500.00 if possible.
Reminton 1100?

Buckeye_V · Post by **Buckeye_V** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 11:35 am

For that money you are going to be hard pressed to find a quality firearm that is also lightweight. What kind of birds will you be hunting? Will a 20 or 28 guage work?

I would get a Franchi or Beretta, but you are going to be paying more than 500. Good luck!

NDBDHunter · Post by **NDBDHunter** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 1:40 pm

Maybe a used Rem 1100, 20 Gauge Light Weight (LW) model. Very nice guns, but hard to find.

Birdhunter1 · Post by **Birdhunter1** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 2:17 pm

First off 20 gauge or 12 gauge.
My dad has a Remington 1100 20 LT and it weighs approx 7 1/4 lbs with a 26" barrel. He hunted with it for 38 years till a few years ago he boughta Benelli Legacy 20 guage (I think dad paid about $1200 for his 4 years ago) with a 26" barrel, weighs in at 6 lbs. even.
I used to hunt with a Remington 870 Wingmaster 12 gauge weighing the exact same amount (loaded with 3 shells) that my dad's 1100 20 weighed, I now hunt with a Beretta 391 Urika 20 gauge with a 28" barrel weighing 6 lbs 2 oz, approx $900-$1000.

Franchi's are known to be a bit lighter than most Beretta or Benelli firearms but from what I'm told they kick harder because of that lack of weight. Another lightweight firearm is a Ruger Red Label 28 gauge (O/U), expensive but light. Also in a 20 gauge the Beretta 686 Onyx (O/U) is light, but even more expensive.

HUTCH · Post by **HUTCH** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 4:12 pm

I use a 20 gauge because of the weight factor. I have a Remington 11-48 20 guage witch I believe is similar to a 11-87 just older. I use a 20 gauge on just about everything I hunt I even dropped three roosters with it this year. I would look at a 20 gauge 11-87 it shoots 3" shells so you could use it for just about anything and it is lighter than the 12 gauge. good luck.

Brandon

Post by **Ayres** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 4:32 pm

Birdhunter1 wrote:Franchi's are known to be a bit lighter than most Beretta or Benelli firearms but from what I'm told they kick harder because of that lack of weight.

The weight of the gun has a direct impact on the amount of recoil, regardless of brand. The lighter a gun you get, the more recoil will be present with the same load. The only way to reduce recoil by a factor other than weight of the gun is to adjust the load you're firing. A lower muzzle velocity and a lighter payload equal less recoil. Then, if you shoot a gas autoloader the action has the effect of spreading out the recoil over a lengthier period of time, which reduces felt recoil, but not actual recoil.

In a lightweight gun sub $500, start looking for manufacturers first. The easiest thing to do is to go to the firearm websites and check the specs on the guns. I'd start by looking at Mossberg, Remington, & Stoeger. The other largely known brand names you'll be hard pressed to find anything new sub $500.

You can also check out sites such as http://www.gunbroker.com , http://www.gunsamerica.com and http://www.auctionarms.com and do a search with a price limit adjuster to find out what used shotguns will be in your price range. Then go to the manufacturer's sites to check the specs and weight.

Post by **Ayres** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 4:35 pm

HUTCH wrote:I use a 20 gauge because of the weight factor. I have a Remington 11-48 20 guage witch I believe is similar to a 11-87 just older. I use a 20 gauge on just about everything I hunt I even dropped three roosters with it this year. I would look at a 20 gauge 11-87 it shoots 3" shells so you could use it for just about anything and it is lighter than the 12 gauge. good luck.

Brandon

I use a 20 for everything as well. I do have a 12 ga. Browning A-5 that I have basically just used at the gun club and for dove hunting.

And, in my experience, the 11-87 is usually less expensive than the 1100.

Birdhunter1 · Post by **Birdhunter1** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 6:14 pm

Ayres wrote:
Birdhunter1 wrote:Franchi's are known to be a bit lighter than most Beretta or Benelli firearms but from what I'm told they kick harder because of that lack of weight.
The weight of the gun has a direct impact on the amount of recoil, regardless of brand. The lighter a gun you get, the more recoil will be present with the same load. The only way to reduce recoil by a factor other than weight of the gun is to adjust the load you're firing. A lower muzzle velocity and a lighter payload equal less recoil. Then, if you shoot a gas autoloader the action has the effect of spreading out the recoil over a lengthier period of time, which reduces felt recoil, but not actual recoil.

I'm not sure about Franchi's or Stoegers but Beretta and Remingtom semi-auto are gas operated guns (Rem. 11-87 is gas compensated but for this example is works the same in terms of recoil). These will shoot softer than a Benelli that is inertia recoil operated. But.. you are looking at a 20 gauge to hunt with and unless you are a small framed man or if some women shoot the gun you will not notice a considerable amount of difference in the recoil of a gas or inertia gun. My dad has a Benlli Legacy and I shoot the Beretta 391 and to me (5'11" 240 lbs) or dad (5'9" 200 lbs) or my wife (5'11", weight not mentioned for obvious reasons) we cannot notice the difference. Now my 11 year old nephew at 5'3" and 140 lbs he can feel the difference and prefers the Remington 1100 that has been my dads since 1965.

Birdhunter1 · Post by **Birdhunter1** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 6:23 pm

I should have added, the Remington 1100 is a gas operated gun that will require a different barrel to shoot 3" shellls or 2 3/4" shells. The 3" barrel will shoot heavy 2 3/4" shells but it has a smaller gas orifice to let less gas through to match the amount of gas that the 2 3/'4 barrel gas orifice will let pass through to cycle the action. With an 1100 keep the magazine tube where the action slides clean with no oil and keep a spare o-ring somewhere handy to replace. A "bleep" fine and reliable gun.
The 11-87 will shoot either 2 3/4" or 3" shells, it has a piston that basically self regulates itselfand only lets so much gas pressure though. I'm not as familiar with the entire operation of the 11-87 as I am with the 1100. I have heard no complaints on this model.
I believe my Beretta works about the same way as the 11-87 where it only allows so much gas pressure though, the only thing I routinely pay attention to is the piston area, the rod it slides on and I keep all the slides in the chamber area well oiled. I swear a drill instructor would be impressed by my shotgun at how clean it is so often kept. I have used this gun extensivley and I have had no problems with anything.
From what I gather on the Benelli is it will fire and it will cycle almst no matter what to an extnet. I haven't heard anybody say they are unreliable.

Donnerhund GWP · Post by **Donnerhund GWP** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 8:11 pm

I shoot a 1100 Magnum for waterfowl. it is a heavy gun.
I also have a Beretta AL391 20 Ga. shoots 2.75 and 3". Nice, Light, Great for all but Geese and late season ducks. Very fast cycling, I recently "double tapped" a winged Canadian goose, Huh! Must have thought I was shooting my Glock!
I also recently bought a Mossberg 500 Bantam pump 20GA. Very very light, still shoots 3" shells. Great for chuckar hunting when weight is paramount.
I have put slings on all of these for packing convienience.

Jedi Woodsman · Post by **Jedi Woodsman** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 8:55 pm

I mainly use a 12 gauge. My wifw uses 20. I came across a Remington model 48 for 425.00 it is used and it seems old. Not sure how old the gun is. That thing is light too. I would use 2 3/4'' to 3'' shells. I perfer hunting small game to my upland birds mostly Pheasants. I am 6'4" tall.

ckfowler · Post by **ckfowler** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 10:39 am

My brother has dad's old Ithaca 51 which I always thought was a dream in the woods. See if you can find one of those to handle.

Buckeye_V · Post by **Buckeye_V** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 11:11 am

My wife just shot a Beretta 20 guage (I think it was a 390) and it kicked more than a 20 guage overunder. Why? WEIGHT. The 11-87 is an inherently heavy gun and couple the gas autoloader to it and it will shoot softer than most 20 guages. So, just because is a gas autoloader does not make it less recoil as well.

The man asked about light weight and inexpensive. You could always go with a single shot break action. That would be lightweight. It would teach you to be a good shot!!!

Wagonmaster · Post by **Wagonmaster** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 12:22 pm

When I was a kid I went hunting with a cousin who carried his father's break action single shot 16. He thought he saw a grouse on the ground and said he was going to shoot it. I said it did not look like a grouse to me, but go ahead. So he shot.

It was like one of those action movie things where they put a belt around the stunt man's waist and snap him backwards. The cousin just doubled up, flew a couple of feet and landed on his rear. When he got up, he said, "I held it away from my shoulder when I shot, so I thought it would not kick that badly."

Light weight in a light gun and light load does not necessarily mean light recoil, no, it does not.

Post by **Ayres** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 5:32 pm

Again, a gas autoloader only reduces felt recoil, not actual recoil. What it does is spread the recoil out over a length of time to make it feel like a push instead of a punch.

There are three main factors when determining actual recoil: 1) the muzzle velocity of the load; 2) the weight of the load; 3) the weight of the gun. The rest is done by a formula, and it's all physics. (every action has an equal and opposite reaction; an object at rest tends to stay at rest until an outside force is acted upon it; determining the rearward velocity of a gun of x weight when y force is applied to it) Higher muzzle velocity (shell), higher payload (shell), and lower gun weight (gun) will all cause recoil to be higher.

So, a lightweight gun will have more recoil if you continue to use the same load. The only other factor, time, can be adjusted by the type of action a gun has. That's why a gas autoloader (Remington, Beretta, Mossberg) has the effect of making the recoil be spread over time, feeling like a push instead of a punch.

From what I've seen, the Franchi autoloaders are inertia driven just like the Benelli's.

Back to point, though... Jedi, do you insist on a 12 ga? If you are wanting a lighter weight gun for upland hunting, I just wonder why you don't want to try a 20 ga. It's certainly not a gun meant only for women and children. If you're worried about losing out on payload, you can always get 20 ga. heavy load shells, but they're really not necessary. I'm actually going to start reloading my own 20 ga. shells with 3/4 oz shot instead of the customary 7/8 oz in order to save a little money and reduce recoil even more.

My point being, you'll have your choice of a lot more 20 ga. guns that are lighter weight than most 12 ga. guns. If lightweight is the factor you want most and sub $500 is a limit, your options will likely be better with a 20 ga.

Jedi Woodsman · Post by **Jedi Woodsman** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 8:23 pm

I'm only reffering to light wieght gun, not the recoil.

Vman · Post by **Vman** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 1:17 pm

I do not know where you live but if you have a Gander Mountain nearby go there and ask someone that knows somthing to find a Benelli M1 or montefeltro in 20 or 12.{USED} They have 11 20 ga`s as I write this. Don`t know how many 12vs but probably around 30 or more. You should be able to find a used one for around 600 or less. The same goes for a Beretta. Good Luck.

littleking · Post by **littleking** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 2:25 pm

ithaca model 51

Post by **Ayres** » Tue Jan 09, 2007 10:57 am

littleking wrote:ithaca model 51

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... m=63453744
&
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... m=63679686

Decoy · Post by **Decoy** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 8:11 am

I have a Browning B80 and it is the lightest auto loader that i have ever shot. It carries light, shoots light with little felt recoil and it is also extemely quick to the shoulder, My 12 ga B80 feels a little lighter than my 20 ga beretta 302

take a look at this gun

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... m=64331124

listed at $475 so that fits your price range.
the gun listed on gun broker lists that it chambers 3 inch shells but i know mine does not.

PAHunter · Post by **PAHunter** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 11:10 am

Browning Twentywieght 2 shot semi, mines under 7 lbs. can be found at most gun shows app. $450 - 750.

omega58 · Post by **omega58** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 3:33 pm

I handled the new Remington CTI 105 the other day at a local gun show, very nice gun and lightweight. If I had the $1059 on me I would have picked it up, of course I go home and check gunbroker and they are going for over $1250.

Drahtsundbraats · Post by **Drahtsundbraats** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 6:03 pm

Daly makes a very nice inexpensive auto loader (comes out of Turkey). For $425, you get a great little gun that you can drop in the duckboat and not worry. I bought one as a training gun and it has become my duck gun of choice. For that money, it even comes in Realtree.

arkrivco · Post by **arkrivco** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 12:28 pm

I am new to this forum; but I just wanted to clear up a few details. The Franchi AL 48 is a long recoil gun-just like the A5 or the Rem M11. The AL 48 is the lightest weight auto that you can find. The 20 and 28 gauge are still sold in the U.S. and the recoil isn't too bad. My AL 48 20 gauge weighs in at 5.4 lbs. It shoots great; but it is wippy. You can find 12 gauge AL 48; but they kick like a mule-better off with something else in that gauge. I also hunt a Rem 1100 20 gauge with a 24" barrel. This gun is the softest shooting auto that you can find; but it weighs 6.5 lbs.

arkrivco

crittercontrol · Post by **crittercontrol** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 1:49 pm

I've had a Benelli M2 autoloader in 20 ga. for the past 4 years. Its a great gun, handles and shoots well, and boys....this thing is light!!!! I specifically bought the gun because of its weight to use on backpacking trips, etc. Every time we go to a trial some body picks it up and says "holy-smokes this thing is light!"

'Course it cost me 1200 bucks new...good luck finding a quality lightweight gun for under $500.

JIM K · Post by **JIM K** » Mon Jan 30, 2012 8:45 pm

Buckeye_V wrote:For that money you are going to be hard pressed to find a quality firearm that is also lightweight. What kind of birds will you be hunting? Will a 20 or 28 guage work?

I would get a Franchi or Beretta, but you are going to be paying more than 500. Good luck!

you are right.beretta for big birds in 12 ga and franchi for small birds in 20 ga.

JIM K · Post by **JIM K** » Mon Jan 30, 2012 8:48 pm

crittercontrol wrote:I've had a Benelli M2 autoloader in 20 ga. for the past 4 years. Its a great gun, handles and shoots well, and boys....this thing is light!!!! I specifically bought the gun because of its weight to use on backpacking trips, etc. Every time we go to a trial some body picks it up and says "holy-smokes this thing is light!"

'Course it cost me 1200 bucks new...good luck finding a quality lightweight gun for under $500.

the FRANCHI AL48 is 700 dollars tyd.made by benelli.it weights in at 5.6 lbs.

JIM K · Post by **JIM K** » Mon Jan 30, 2012 8:50 pm

arkrivco wrote:I am new to this forum; but I just wanted to clear up a few details. The Franchi AL 48 is a long recoil gun-just like the A5 or the Rem M11. The AL 48 is the lightest weight auto that you can find. The 20 and 28 gauge are still sold in the U.S. and the recoil isn't too bad. My AL 48 20 gauge weighs in at 5.4 lbs. It shoots great; but it is wippy. You can find 12 gauge AL 48; but they kick like a mule-better off with something else in that gauge. I also hunt a Rem 1100 20 gauge with a 24" barrel. This gun is the softest shooting auto that you can find; but it weighs 6.5 lbs.

arkrivco

any FRANCHI AL48 under 26 inch barrel is wippy.i hate any semi under 26 inchs.
heavy cover get 26 inch. open field hunting get 28 inch.
if one choice,get 26 inch.

USMC · Post by **USMC** » Wed Feb 01, 2012 6:13 pm

Benelli Ultralight or a Montefeltro

birddog1968 · Post by **birddog1968** » Wed Feb 01, 2012 7:35 pm

Decoy wrote:I have a Browning B80 and it is the lightest auto loader that i have ever shot. It carries light, shoots light with little felt recoil and it is also extemely quick to the shoulder, My 12 ga B80 feels a little lighter than my 20 ga beretta 302

take a look at this gun

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... m=64331124

listed at $475 so that fits your price range.
the gun listed on gun broker lists that it chambers 3 inch shells but i know mine does not.

I love my B80's, great gun ! why they don't still make them i have no clue.....

The Beretta 303 is the same gun with aluminum reciever , saving weight.

jimbo&rooster · Post by **jimbo&rooster** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 10:07 am

I just picked up and started toting around a CZ720. not the prettiest girl at the party, but has run with out a hickup this season. $450 new built by Huglu. Ive owned winchesters, benellis, and brownings, and I really like this little gun.

The true test will come in September in our dove season.

Jim

Vision · Post by **Vision** » Fri Feb 03, 2012 8:44 am

Remington 1100 Special Field. Light, fast and nice looking. You can find them on the auction sites.

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