Semi-Auto Shotguns

cumberland · Post by **cumberland** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 9:50 am

My current arsenal consists of a Mossberg 835 that is about 8 or 9 years old and a Baikal OU that I paid $250 and is starting to show some significant wear. I am starting to think about getting a new gun, primarily for upland hunting to replace the OU. I have looked at new OU's, but I am now leaning towards getting a semi auto, like the third shot and quick shooting compared to a pump. I'm hear to take suggestions. I am looking for a quality made gun this time and would be willing to spend a reasonable price, maybe up to $2k, but like in all things, overall value will play a roll in the choice. I've looked at the Remington products, one of the top concerns is reliability, and I hear some of the 11-87's will jam fairly regularly.

gr_elliott · Post by **gr_elliott** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 9:55 am

I have been looking at new shotguns for a couple of months now. I have decided on the Benilli Super Black Eagle II.

The gun is pricy at $1400 but is the last gun I think i will ever have to buy. I have a buddy that goes down to mexico every year to dove hunt, they shoot 2 cases of shells a day hunting. He said that every gun people have taken down there breaks, except the Benelli.

Another buddy of mine just bouoght one and it is a great feeling gun, feels light and shoulders well.

Post by **pear** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 10:15 am

gr_elliott wrote:The gun is pricy at $1400 but is the last gun I think i will ever have to buy.

OMG..... Your a sick man !!!!!!!

Never Never believe that.

Oh by the way on a more serious note the Super Black Eagle II is a fine shotgun, I'm sure you'll be pleased. ..."pear"

gr_elliott · Post by **gr_elliott** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 10:29 am

that is the selling point to my wife.....I am sales what can I say?

she will forget I said in a few years when I start looking agian

Disclaimer: sorry honey it was peer presure that made me type that, it really is the last gun I will ever buy

omega58 · Post by **omega58** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 10:31 am

I would also say the SBE II is a good choice for an auto. . .if you don't want to shoot 3 1/2" shells, get the M2. Same gun, just doesn't shoot the 3 1/2s and you save $400. I don't have a Benelli, but have shot some and they are good guns and simple to clean. I do have a Stoeger 2000, same as the M1 at 1/3 cost.

For me, I just prefer the thumb safety on my guns and I figure you can never go wrong with buying more guns. I will almost always use a double gun on upland hunts.

EWSIV · Post by **EWSIV** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 10:39 am

For the 1400 you would spend on the Benelli, you could buy a Beretta 3901 and a Dehann SxS or OU in 12, 16, or 20 gauge. Not that the benelli isn't a good gun, but that is just a lot of money for an Auto.

Wagonmaster · Post by **Wagonmaster** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 10:49 am

I have several autos, and have also tried out several others. I have a Rem. 1100, a Franchi 500 and a Beretta 390. All of these are what I call "gas guns," gas operated semi-autos. In semi-auto shotguns there are three types, recoil operated (the old Brownin humpback, the Rem. 11, the Franchi small gauges), inertial operated (most but not all Benelli's), and the gas guns. There are trade offs with all three types. The recoil operated guns can be very small and light, like the Franchi's, but they do not absorb alot of recoil and are not all that dependable. The inertial guns are extremely dependable. Aside from pumps, they are the shotgun of choice for police departments, and for the guys who put on shooting demonstrations, such as former Olympic gold medalist John Saitherwaite. Their drawback in my view is lack of recoil absorption. The action is fast, so fast that they feel like a "lock up" gun in terms of recoil, a lock up gun in my vernacular being a pump, O/U, side by, etc., where no recoil absorption takes place in the action. The inertial guns are "punchy."

So my favorites are the gas guns. They tend to have a soft felt recoil. Total recoil is dependent only on the weight of the gun, and the velocity and weight of the shot charge. However, to some degree, all of the autos change the feel of the recoil by drawing out the period of time over which it is distributed to your shoulder. The gas guns do the best job of this, and it is quite comfortable, to me, to shoot even very large loads. I have an Ithaca Mag 10 for geese, and it feels about like a medium 12 ga. to me when shooting the big 10 ga. loads.

The other issue to consider with the autos is carry weight. Lots of people are attracted to a gun that can do it all, shoot 3 1/2" 12 ga. loads at geese, and be used to hunt quail, pheas, etc. in the uplands. The problem with that theory is that a shotgun is not much good to you when, an hour or two into the hunt, you are carrying down around your knees, or up on you shoulder, because of carry weight. Carry weight probably is "felt" differently by different people depending on age, size, muscle, etc. For me, a gun that is over 7 lbs. is a blind gun, one that is best suited for shooting out of a blind. 7 lbs. and under is starting to be nice carry weight.

I also tend to like long barrels. From years of sporting clay shooting I have found that they are the most stable, and fastest to get on a target. I like a minimum of 28" in an auto.

Rating the one's I have, my Rem. 1100 is the least dependable and is very heavy. Most Rems tend to be so. I have a number of friends with the newer version such as the 11-87, and while somewhat better, they are not great. I keep my 1100 as a specialized gun for some pigeon shoots, I shoot it out of a blind.

I like my Beretta 390. I thought it was ugly at first, did not look like it would shoot well. But by and large, over the years I have had it, it has simply declined to miss, an endearing quality in a shotgun. My only issue with it is that it is over that 7 lb. limit, and I carry it on my shoulder quite a bit, and when that happens I am slow to get on birds. It is a good thing the gun is good at long shots, because some of the shots I get with it are long.

My favorite is an old Franchi 500. It weighs in at under 7 lbs. It only shoots 2 3/4" and I have learned the hard way that it is a gun designed only for the standard and light 12 ga. loads. Some years ago I knocked the barrel band off (the piece that is welded to the barrel that goes around the magazine), by shooting heavier baby magnum loads. I got it fixed though, and shooting 1 1/4 loads it has killed an awful lot of pheasant and sharptail. Quality has improved much in the years since that gun was made.

So my ideal would be a 7 lb. or under gas gun with 28" barrels. 3" would be nice to have. The problem is no one makes that gun. There have been some in the past like that Franchi. The closest I think you can come would be the Beretta 3901, which is just a hair over 7 lbs. The Berettas are very dependable. My 390 has never failed. I have never been on one of those S. American dove shoots where they go through several cases of shells each day, but I have a number of friends who have. They all take Beretta gas guns, and report no problems with them.

All that said, you can't go wrong with that Benelli if you are a bigger guy. I just don't like the punch the inertia guns dish out.

Scott · Post by **Scott** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 10:56 am

I have the Benelli SBE II with the comfort tech stock and its a awesome shotgun. I recently purchased an M2 as well because to be honest there is no reason to shoot the 3.5" shells. With tungsten, bismuth and other heavy shot you can do it all with a 3" shell. The M2(previously called M1) is about a $1000 here in Az.

I picked up a Stoeger last Saturday and WOW. For the price that is the best option out there.! Seems like the Stoeger 2000 was in the $350 range and like Omega58 mentioned its almost identical. The only option that I like on the Benelli is the comfort tech stock. But Its not worth an additional $600. Stoeger also had a pump that was very similar to the Nova and it was only $229.

I was really kicking myself on spending the $$ for the M2 after seeing the Stoeger 2000. Its a great deal! Inertia driven and everything! I don't know if they offer it in a 3.5" shell? Someone else might have those details.

gr_elliott · Post by **gr_elliott** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 11:03 am

seems like all the reviews i have read on the Stoeger 2000 have been pretty bad.....I never understode that, the specs are almost the exact same as the SBE II

Scott · Post by **Scott** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 11:07 am

I havent shot nearly as many shot guns as others on the forum. But Benelli makes a claim of 48% less recoil than others on the market?? Mine are very comfortable shooting heavy duck load 3" shells out of. As for weight I am pretty sure the SBE II is right at 7#'s but I might be wrong.

omega58 · Post by **omega58** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 11:45 am

I have two "cheap autos". . .the Verona 405 I bought on clearance for $199.00. . it has been a great gun and I shoot it great and have had only a couple problems with it. Like I said, I won the Stoeger, so it doesn't get better than that and I have not been able to screw it up yet. I think the "bad reviews" are a thing of the past for the Stoeger 2000. I am guessing that Benelli has taken care of most of the problems, I haven't heard too much recently. I am not sure if Benelli will have them come out with a 3 1/2" model or not? They may want to keep that to the SBEII as a selling point for that. I mean what would happen if they had the Franchi and Stoeger line come out with a 3 1/2"? I am guessing you would have a lot less SBEs sold.

I also agree that you really don't need to shoot 3 1/2" shells, let the birds decoy. I have a friend that has an Extrema and shoots 3 1/2" Hevi-shot. . .he tends to pull the trigger too soon. I have been very happy after finding some good steel shot for geese and if you shoot them in the head, no need for hevi-shot.

I know a couple guys that have the Beretta 390 Wallyworld special and love it. For around $500.00, it is one of the best deals out there for an auto.

Birdhunter1 · Post by **Birdhunter1** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 12:01 pm

Wagon had alot of good information, gas operated guns do absorb alot of recoil and seem to make it easier on a follow up or double shot.

I shoot a 20 gauge Beretta 391 Urika with a 28" barrel weighing in just a tad over 6 lbs. It's a gas gun capable of 3" mags and I never feel a shock from shooting it, sometimes several hundred shells a day and have never had it jam up. Cost me about $950 in 2004, wood stocks blued steel.

My dad has a Benelli Legacy 20 gauge, 26" barrel weighing 2 ounces lighter than my Beretta. It's an inertia gun, a bit more felt recoil than my Beretta but not too noticeable. Also capable of 3" mags, cost dad about $1100 a few yeas ago and is one of the prettiest guns I have ever seen, wood stocks, blued barrel nickel alloy receiver. Easy gun to clean, receiver comes apart in two pieces.

omega58 · Post by **omega58** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 12:40 pm

Also, I should add one more thing since one of the reasons for an auto over a o/u was the third shot. Almost all the time, the third shot is a hail mary, or to take care of a cripple. Two shots is really all you need and you really won't miss the third shot. In the grouse woods, if you get two shots you are lucky. There is a lot less to go wrong with a o/u or SxS.

Anyway, good luck with the search and do some research, go shoulder a couple guns and go with the best fit. . . and have fun!!

Wagonmaster · Post by **Wagonmaster** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 12:59 pm

On the prairies that third shot is useful. I have tripled a few times on pheasant and on sharptail. That is fun, but the drawback is that you are then done for the day - limited out in one stroke.

About 7 years ago I was invited on a trip to IA. Walking along a creek bank, my dog went on point and I was closest. A pheasant got up and I did not fire because I could not see color, but when it got out aways I could see it was a young rooster, not fully colored up. Unusual because it was Jan. Shortly, several more got up from the same spot, all the same weird color, and now I knew what to do. The first one was a 35 yard straightaway, down on one shot. The second was angling to the right and about 45 yards. Down on the second shot. The third had was to the right and had curved all the way around so it was crossing left to right at about 55. Down on the third shot. All stone dead. I had about 6 witnesses including local farmers.

The next day we were hunting in another county 20 miles away. We stopped at a farm house and the farmer sees the truck. He comes running up and say, "Is one of you the guy that killed three on one rise? My neighbor was there and said he had never seen a shot like that!"

I got lucky. No I am bragging. No just lucky.

There is room for a third shot on occasion. Not in the grouse woods though. Barely time for one shot there.

cumberland · Post by **cumberland** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 1:11 pm

Thanks for all the info so far, and I look forward to hearing more opinions.

John has it right on those trips to the priaries, there were a couple of occasions the last two years in ND where I had wished I had that third shot. Once on a cripple running through I corn field where I had the OU open trying to re-load while also trying to keep pace with a running rooster. Not a pretty sight. Also, those sharpies can give you some staggered flushes where you can't really reload an OU. And most of the time for me, three shots is not going to mean 3 birds down.

phantomfire · Post by **phantomfire** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 2:45 pm

I have had my Remington pump for the longest and love it. My wife got me my Beretta Urika when I got back home from Iraq and swear by that thing. I have put it through the ringer. I am very rough on my weapons and this one just takes it. My brother has a Benelli SBE and it is a great gun. Hes had his for about 6 years. you cant go wrong with either.

nj gsp · Post by **nj gsp** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 5:51 pm

Hi guys, new here. I'm having a great time reading all these posts about some of my favorite things: dogs & hunting, and learning a lot too.

So I thought I'd pitch in & tell you about my favorite bird guns.

I have a Remington Sportsman 48 16 ga. which I use most of the time. I've killed a lot of birds with this gun.

My other favorites are a Fox 16 ga double, a Fox 20 ga. double, and a Tikka 512S O/U 12 ga.

I should add: I have several auto's. But if I were to buy a new one, I think I would lean towards a Benelli.

Edit: And I also would love a Remington 1100 classic field in 16 gauge. (I have a thing for the 16 gauge, shoots like a 12, recoils like a 20. I don't know why it isn't more popular!)

omega58 · Post by **omega58** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 5:59 pm

Yeah, the third, fourth, fifth, and even sixth shot has it's place. . .and the 11th does in the snow goose field.

I like my autos, but if you find a o/u that you like, go for it. . .and you can never have too many guns, I have a Mossberg 835, Stoeger 2000, Verona 405, Verona 503 12, and Verona 503 20. . and I'm just gettting started.

I'm eyeing either a Mossberg 935 (reason being, I am left-handed and I like the thumb safety), or another Verona 503 in 28 gauge. . . or both. . . I just may need another home to store them in.

Wagonmaster · Post by **Wagonmaster** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 10:23 am

I went to Cabela's last night and stopped by the gun counter. They did not have the SBEII, but I looked at a Supersport and a Cordoba. Both were very sweet guns. Light for a twelve and very nice handling. Can't tell you what the recoil would feel like though, they are inertial. When I tried a couple inertial guns for possible sporting clay use, the recoil was no different than my O/U target guns.

NDBDHunter · Post by **NDBDHunter** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 11:45 am

NJ GSP wrote

Edit: And I also would love a Remington 1100 classic field in 16 gauge. (I have a thing for the 16 gauge, shoots like a 12, recoils like a 20. I don't know why it isn't more popular!)

The reason it's not more popular is because it's a 16 gauge on a 12 gauge frame. If they would have made it on an appropriate frame more people would have bought it.

nj gsp · Post by **nj gsp** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 12:29 pm

NDBDHunter wrote:NJ GSP wrote
Edit: And I also would love a Remington 1100 classic field in 16 gauge. (I have a thing for the 16 gauge, shoots like a 12, recoils like a 20. I don't know why it isn't more popular!)
The reason it's not more popular is because it's a 16 gauge on a 12 gauge frame. If they would have made it on an appropriate frame more people would have bought it.

Well, I meant the 16 gauge in general, not necessarily the 1100.

But I'm disappointed now...

I thought the frame for the 1100/16 was built on a true 16 ga. frame. I haven't picked one up, but it sounds like it would be too heavy with the 12ga frame, and then what would be the point?

And yes, I do have an 1100, in 12 ga. I have it set up as a "Jersey Rifle" for deer at the moment, but these days I prefer the Encore instead.

So far one shot has worked out fine, if I miss the first one they're gone anyway. :roll:

I'll stop there, before I get too far off topic!

Bird Dog 67 · Post by **Bird Dog 67** » Thu Dec 21, 2006 9:38 am

As far as semi auto's go, I have had a VERY good experience with my Rem 11-87 Upland Special. One drawback is that when shooting light loads shells tend to hang up on the eject.

stonegripper · Post by **stonegripper** » Sat Dec 23, 2006 6:04 am

I have the Benelli Super Black Eagle (SBE) and as soon as they introduced it, I bought the SBE II. Less recoil and both are great guns. They''ve been cold, wet, hot, and fired over and over, and NEVER missed a beat. The SBE is it for auto's.

Jedi Woodsman · Post by **Jedi Woodsman** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 7:16 pm

I have a remington 11-87 I use right now until I buy another gun.
I also checked at "bleep". I like the Franchi Diamond for 800.00 that is their exclusive, A very beautiful gun. . . .my wife even said so!!

Pleasant Ridge · Post by **Pleasant Ridge** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 8:14 pm

Benelli produces a 12 gauge under 7 pounds. The ultra light, will hold 3 in the magazine and 1 in the chamber. It has, I think a 24in barrel

Odinn's Whoaer · Post by **Odinn's Whoaer** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 3:42 pm

This was a very informative thread. Thanks!

I'm in the market for a 20ga semi-auto 28" and just about talked into a Beretta 390 or 391. I'm going to a gun show this weekend and hope to see one there. I would actually prefer a used gun for the savings, and to not have to worry about getting that first scratch. Do any of you have any recommendations on where to buy?

Birdhunter1 · Post by **Birdhunter1** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 7:21 pm

I've got a 391 20 gauge with a 28" barrel. it fits up to my shoulder well (5'11" 250 lbs.. very wide shoulders and big arms), the gun swings good, weighs in about 6 lbs 2 oz. Since it is a gas operated gun there is very little felt recoil, never had a problem with it but I also keep mine clean enough to satisfy a Marine D.I. so I have been told. Really cheap shells tend to leave alot of residue behind but they do on every gun.

nj gsp · Post by **nj gsp** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 9:25 pm

Kinda glad this got bumped up because I got to read through it again.

I too have a Mossberg 835, and despite the fact it is heavy (or rather because of it) it is an excellent waterfowl gun, but I wouldn't use it for upland hunting. One thing the mossy 835 has going for it, is that it will feed & shoot anything - dirty, muddy, stepped on, ice encrusted shells feed and eject every time. It works flawlessly in any weather. Patterns great too.

I can't say the same for my 1100 or 48. The shells & the gun have to be clean, dry, and true to shape.

I'm currently wishing for a 16 ga O/U... :roll:

CZShooter · Post by **CZShooter** » Sat Jun 23, 2007 6:41 am

I would go with the Benelli Ultralight 12 ga., with 26" barrel. Just over 6 lbs. You'll like it.

Odinn's Whoaer · Post by **Odinn's Whoaer** » Sun Jun 24, 2007 5:52 pm

I purchased a 20ga 28" Beretta Urika AL391 Sporting Gold today. I try it out tomorrow. Can't wait!!! I hope I will do my dog some justice next season.

PAHunter · Post by **PAHunter** » Wed Jun 27, 2007 11:33 am

I got a bennelli ultralight 24" in May. I've busted quite a few clays with it already and really like it. I have bad shoulders and at 6 lbs it sure is easy to carry.

nitrex · Post by **nitrex** » Wed Jun 27, 2007 10:39 pm

I've had my 12ga. Benelli Montefeltro w. 26" barrels for about 8 years. I LOVE IT!!! It took some time to get used to the low vent rib, but now I wouldn't trade it. It is fast, lightweight, and has very little recoil. Just thought I would put in my 2 cents worth!

Nitrex

Neanderthal · Post by **Neanderthal** » Sat Dec 08, 2007 4:32 am

I would strongly recommend either a Montefeltro Silver (beautiful), or an M2. Both high quality guns that your family would be arguing who gets it after you're dead. You won't wear them out. I love "inertia driven" guns.

dudley · Post by **dudley** » Sun Dec 09, 2007 10:28 am

beretta 390

corytch · Post by **corytch** » Sun Dec 09, 2007 5:27 pm

i have a franchi 48 al and i love it it is light and i havent had any problems out of it yet i have probably shot 300+ rounds, also i have shot a benelli ultra light and it was also amazing

whitedogone · Post by **whitedogone** » Sun Dec 09, 2007 5:54 pm

omega58 wrote:Also, I should add one more thing since one of the reasons for an auto over a o/u was the third shot. Almost all the time, the third shot is a hail mary, or to take care of a cripple. Two shots is really all you need and you really won't miss the third shot. In the grouse woods, if you get two shots you are lucky. There is a lot less to go wrong with a o/u or SxS.

Anyway, good luck with the search and do some research, go shoulder a couple guns and go with the best fit. . . and have fun!!

X2

tdhusker · Post by **tdhusker** » Sun Dec 09, 2007 10:22 pm

I've owned many different auto's, currently own three Benelli's. For me, the Benelli M1 Montefeltro is the best of what I've tried. I really like the thin forearm, light weight and the way the gun cycles with light and field loads. Even though you can shoot 3" mags with it, this isn't really what the gun is for, IMO. It is at it's best carried in the upland fields. I have a 12 and 20 M1's, the 20 is a feather and a delight to carry, the 12 is what I carry most of the time because I shoot it better. The M1 is an entirely different shooting gun than the SBE that I have. Less recoil with light loads and ultra-dependable while the SBE likes to jam with light loads.

I've owned and hunted with 1100's, an 11-87, Browning a-5, Gold, B80, Beretta 390 and 391 . . . several sporting clays guns, a number of O/U's, the Benelli m1 is my field gun of choice.