SxS shotguns... why?

JoeFriday · Post by **JoeFriday** » Thu May 26, 2011 9:46 am

I was reading a recent copy of Garden & Gun magazine the other day and it had an article about classic hammer lock guns which are all side by sides, explaining how their simplicity has certain advantages over the now-standard internal hammer design. Well, that's not really what I was wondering about, but it got me thinking...

I've always had an over/under, which I am very comfortable with. I've never shot a SxS. Assuming same quality between a O/U and SxS, what would be the advantage of using the SxS? Is it a balance thing? Or being able to track the bird better?

nikegundog · Post by **nikegundog** » Thu May 26, 2011 2:34 pm

I have tried SxS a couple of times and always found them awkward to use. I read an article once that said that know one had won a major trap or skeet competition with a SxS in the U.S. in the last 70 years. Don't know its that's true but if SxS held a advantage over other guns, every trap and skeet shooter would be using them.

birddog1968 · Post by **birddog1968** » Thu May 26, 2011 3:06 pm

some think the wider sight plane makes it easier to get on plane and track bird flights.....

My opinion , its all in what you like and learn/adapt to shooting.....

brad27 · Post by **brad27** » Thu May 26, 2011 3:34 pm

I've shot a SxS for the past 23 years. this past weekend i shot a O/U for the first time. i went 5/5 with phez. didn't notice a difference.

Mountaineer · Post by **Mountaineer** » Thu May 26, 2011 4:16 pm

Depends upon personal likes and dislikes, confidence and experience and, whether a SXS fits into a sense of upland tradition that strikes a chord with an individual.
I think that in heavy cover there can be an advantage to a SXS in the bulk of the wider barrels sunconsciously seen during the shot rather than a wider sighting plane, as I believe that the narrow barrel orientation of an O/U helps with targets against a clear sky background.
Mostly, many folks try and dislike SXSs because they dealt with poor triggers, too short barrels and clunky handling from either cheapness, poor design or older shotguns with out-of-date stock dimensions.
Some advantages, never a given tho, of a SXS can be the physical feel of the gun, the lack of bulk, the handling, hand position one to another, etc.
O/Us can, not always, lack a certain hard-to-define esthetic feel, look and, proportion that may be found in a top notch SXS scattergun.

O/Us trump SXSs in many competitions due to the nature of the target presentations and, especially, the very few target quality and easily affordable SXS scatterguns available versus O/Us.
On the other hand, live pigeon and some other games are where SXSs still have an appeal....depends again upon the confidence and experience of the shooter.
As with folks who say they can not deal with double triggers, I expect the issues with SXSs relates more to not trying long or hard enough to overcome the learning curve or...they consider a SXS old-fashioned and too costly, with the cheap ones rarely worth the freight.
SXSs are also discredited due to a bit of reverse snobbery at times.

Garden and Gun would be a magazine way down any list of those with legitimate info on the ins and outs, advantages and disadvantages of any scattergun design.
There are better places for better info.

JoeFriday · Post by **JoeFriday** » Thu May 26, 2011 7:04 pm

great info, guys.

I'm not sure I'm actually considering a SxS, but sometimes I suddenly decide I need something urgently where I didn't even know it existed a couple weeks before. That was the case with the Springfield Armory EMP I bought a few years ago. Maybe after I hit the lottery I'll give a side by side another look.

and yeah, I know Garden & Gun isn't a good source for technical information. I like the magazine more for the range of topics it covers. And being a yankee all my life, I'm just starting to see the appeal of southern living, which is really what the magazine is about.

nikegundog · Post by **nikegundog** » Thu May 26, 2011 7:45 pm

Wish I would've purchased a Ruger Gold Label during the short time they were available.

kylemac · Post by **kylemac** » Thu May 26, 2011 8:12 pm

I carry a classic Stevens Mod 311 Side-by-Side 20 Ga -- just a few hundred dollars invested for a nice small field gun I can hike through thick cover with for miles -- considerably lighter than my 870 and far cheaper than most O/U. I really enjoy the feel of it and it looks nice too - IMO.

Regards.

phermes1 · Post by **phermes1** » Fri May 27, 2011 8:58 am

I bought an O/U because there were more options available at a better price than a SxS.

I've shot a SxS a few times - I like them. I plan on getting one eventually, for no other reason than they're different.

Garden And Gun is an awesome magazine, too!

Post by **Greg Jennings** » Fri May 27, 2011 11:34 am

I love a SxS for the tradition. I like toting a light SxS in the field.

OTOH, when hard money is on the line, I will always go with something with a single, simple, uninterrupted sight plane. Having been around trap and skeet my whole life, I don't know anyone that thinks any other way. In the few live pigeon matches that I've shot, I can't remember a single winner that was shooting a SxS. Ditto sporting clays.

JWP58 · Post by **JWP58** » Sat May 28, 2011 7:43 pm

Why not? Variety is the spice of life.....

Post by **slistoe** » Sat May 28, 2011 8:02 pm

Lighter weight, better swing balance, less hinge angle carries much, much easier cracked open, straight stock aesthetics, and best of all - lighter and easier to carry.

birddogger · Post by **birddogger** » Sat May 28, 2011 8:37 pm

I just like the looks, balance and feel of a good one, but they are not for everyone.

Charlie

JKP · Post by **JKP** » Tue May 31, 2011 6:19 am

I would be willing to bet that the popularity of O/U for competitive events is greatly influenced by marketing...Perazzi, Kolar, Krieghoff, etc have a huge investment and I see no pushback from any SxS producer.

A good SXS feels a lot less bulky in my hands...the wrist is trimmer (and I spend a lot of time pushing branches back with one hand in the grouse woods), weight is usually less, hinge angle reduced, reloads easier and since I prefer double triggers, easier to find. I never liked fooling with buttons and gadgets to change barrels...I just put my finger on the LM and tap it. Each to his own.

Post by **Greg Jennings** » Tue May 31, 2011 7:39 am

JKP wrote:I would be willing to bet that the popularity of O/U for competitive events is greatly influenced by marketing...Perazzi, Kolar, Krieghoff, etc have a huge investment and I see no pushback from any SxS producer..

The games are so competitive that one target out of 400 will mean the difference between a payday and donating to the cause.

So, while "do as the big boys do" is a factor, competitive shooters would sell their soul to find any advantage at all. *That* is why SxSs went out of the game in favor of single-sight-plane configurations long before I was born and maybe before my dad was born.

There is a vintage event every year for the SxS. It would be interesting to compare the scores. I'd think it'd be one percent or perhaps even a fraction of a percent lower. Nothing that would make any difference to a field shooter, but makes all the difference to the competitve shooter.

Post by **Greg Jennings** » Tue May 31, 2011 7:58 am

JWP58 wrote:Why not? Variety is the spice of life.....

Because in that game,I don't care about variety. I care about winning. I don't cheat, either in letter or spirit, but I do anything and everything else to get an advantage.

It has now been 17 years since I shot my last season...and I still can't shoot skeet for fun....I picked up shooting benchrest. There, I can shoot for fun rather than winning.

Slaeghunder · Post by **Slaeghunder** » Tue May 31, 2011 8:07 am

I would have a side by side with exposed hammers if I could afford it. I content myself with a single shot, with exposed hammer. What can I say, I like old timey stuff. I'll take wood over synthetic, I'll take leather over nylon, I hardly EVER wear camouflage... I'm just a weirdo I guess.

Post by **slistoe** » Tue May 31, 2011 10:23 am

Greg Jennings wrote:
JWP58 wrote:Why not? Variety is the spice of life.....
Because in that game,I don't care about variety. I care about winning. I don't cheat, either in letter or spirit, but I do anything and everything else to get an advantage.

It has now been 17 years since I shot my last season...and I still can't shoot skeet for fun....I picked up shooting benchrest. There, I can shoot for fun rather than winning.

So you haven't discovered competitive benchrest yet?

Post by **Greg Jennings** » Tue May 31, 2011 10:53 am

slistoe wrote:
Greg Jennings wrote:So you haven't discovered competitive benchrest yet?

Oh, yes. I shoot IBS Varmint For Score. But, It's something that I can do for fun, without taking to competitive extremes as I did with skeet and, to a somewhat lesser extent, trap.

I can shoot a match, not win, and have tons of fun. With skeet, I had to win something or I had a bad hair day.

Mountaineer · Post by **Mountaineer** » Tue May 31, 2011 1:24 pm

Slightly off-subject but I can't think of too many clay target sports that can turn a shooter off quicker than can Registered Skeet.
As opposed to Trap, skeet is all about classes and trophies...which may be why back when I shot Ohio Registered of both, the state skeet championship fielded 100-150 shooters and Trap had 1200 and above.
I wonder how many shoot R Skeet in Ohio today...maybe more than I think.
I suppose W-P is now the main venue???...Doebriners used to hold the state shoot as well years ago.
SCs really gutted some clay events...what a shame!

There are some foreign shooters who still cling to SxSs for some games...best never bet against them.
But, "an edge" is what many shooters today chase.

JWP58 · Post by **JWP58** » Tue May 31, 2011 7:14 pm

Greg Jennings wrote:
JWP58 wrote:Why not? Variety is the spice of life.....
Because in that game,I don't care about variety. I care about winning. I don't cheat, either in letter or spirit, but I do anything and everything else to get an advantage.

It has now been 17 years since I shot my last season...and I still can't shoot skeet for fun....I picked up shooting benchrest. There, I can shoot for fun rather than winning.

I was responding to the original post, not your's. I couldnt care less about clays, skeet, trap, 5 stand....

Post by **Greg Jennings** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 6:45 am

Mountaineer wrote:Slightly off-subject but I can't think of too many clay target sports that can turn a shooter off quicker than can Registered Skeet..

They are all good games. It's just personal preference. The number of shooters in the various games varies by locale. Trap has always been big in Ohio. In other places, skeet or sporting clays are larger. I've been in clubs where the predominant game cycled every few years as people got interested, volunteered and made their game successful, then burned out and took up something else.

I was a AA/26/AA trap shooter before I took up skeet. I enjoy both and sporting clays, too.

Mountaineer · Post by **Mountaineer** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 8:29 am

Greg Jennings wrote:
Mountaineer wrote:Slightly off-subject but I can't think of too many clay target sports that can turn a shooter off quicker than can Registered Skeet..
They are all good games. It's just personal preference. The number of shooters in the various games varies by locale. Trap has always been big in Ohio. In other places, skeet or sporting clays are larger.

I was a AA/26/AA trap shooter before I took up skeet. I enjoy both and sporting clays, too.

Certainly different areas have their games of first choice...often dictated by facilities.
Ohio has blessed few skeet facilities.
I simply believe that some games are both more inclusive and easier to participate in than others....particulars are often what turns shooters off, quickest.
Skeet does have the advantage of giving out class awards willy-nilly....some like that.
Skeet, at the core tho, is a 4 gauge 2 day game...Trap not so to the same degree, or SCs.
Trap, of course, has the panache of age and tradition...skeet as shot today, or SCs, not so much.
Not a negative, but does play into the volume of shooters, IMHO a bit.
SCs has the latest and greatest tag....some like that point as well.
Skeet never appealed other than on an informal level where it is, to me, the best form of learning to manipulate a scattergun.

I shot from the 27, competed from the 27 and won from the 27...I never felt I was a 27 yard shooter tho.
Ratings are not always a crystal clear indicator of much....kinda like a young bank employee with a title of Vice-President.

Good luck with your shooting...wherever @ whatever.

Post by **Greg Jennings** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 10:32 am

The classes in skeet are no different than the classes in trap singles or doubles. Neither skeet nor sporting clays have an equivalent of the trap handicap game. There are advantages and disadvantages to that.

There were a few one-day shoots, trap and skeet where I shot. The one day trap shoots were 100-100-50 pair or and the one day skeet shoots would be 2 gun or 2 gun + doubles events.

I truth, I never found any difference in any of the shooters except the jokes they told about the other games.

I hear you about long yardage. I carried a pretty good average from back there, but seldom won when there was significant money on the table.

Thanks for the well-wishes. I am not much of a benchrest shooter, I'm afraid, but I like to piddle around with it. Now, if I can just get a certain gunsmith off the dime and get two rifles back to me...

Mountaineer · Post by **Mountaineer** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 11:19 am

Skeet thrives upon class advancement and award recognition, like SCs...not so Registered Trap, IMHO.
Other than at the occassional zone, state, Chain, etc shoot there were very few awards given out...or wanted.
Lewis and Calcutta money or hams and bacons ran much higher in importance at Trapshoots than geejaws.
I guess we will have to disagree on that point.

One day events are indeed often available in skeet...no arms are twisted but a skeet shooter is a 4-gun shooter, capital S....otherwise they are just shooting skeet targets and keeping score.

Interesting, I found a world of difference twixt skeet and trap shooters tho many shot both.
Skeet shooters were a much more high-five, "good shot!, buddy" and trap shooters were far more serious...even in practice.
After the shoot it is a different deal however and much less of a difference.
Just my experience.
Then, of course, there were those who only shot trap targets and found it great sport to rip apart a squad's rythym to gain an advantage or tweak a nose or two...bums there always are.
By and large, registered trapshooters from ChairShooters to kids to Seniors were nicer to be around with the idea of doing well shooting and skeet shooters were easier to find a shooting buddy during a shoot or to receive pats on the back, and hear "let's go eat.".
I far preferred Trapshooters.

Somewhat generalized idea, but still apt I believe from what I saw over many years from the Grand down.
I even saw those who shot both disciplines act differently in each.
Ol Brent Umberger, was one such....He and I were in the Algonquins and a character he was.
Wouldn't that make an interesting book or article?...all the characters in trap or Skeet....especially Ohio-based.
I truely miss Trap....and the folks who shot it years ago.

Re long yardage, that was one place that trapshooters were more inclusive because it put more money into the possible pot and over 200 Handicap birds especially, it was a different and rarified game.

I used to work with a fella in Parkersburg, Wva who was a benchrester....patience, experience, consistency and calmness plus good equipment seemed important.
Pretty sure I lacked in all five....and still do!

Post by **Greg Jennings** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 11:52 am

Mountaineer wrote:Skeet thrives upon class advancement and award recognition, like SCs...not so Registered Trap, IMHO.
Other than at the occassional zone, state, Chain, etc shoot there were very few awards given out...or wanted.
Lewis and Calcutta money or hams and bacons ran much higher in importance at Trapshoots than geejaws.
I guess we will have to disagree on that point.

One day events are indeed often available in skeet...no arms are twisted but a skeet shooter is a 4-gun shooter, capital S....otherwise they are just shooting skeet targets and keeping score.

Interesting, I found a world of difference twixt skeet and trap shooters tho many shot both.
Skeet shooters were a much more high-five, "good shot!, buddy" and trap shooters were far more serious...even in practice.
After the shoot it is a different deal however and much less of a difference.
Just my experience.
Then, of course, there were those who only shot trap targets and found it great sport to rip apart a squad's rythym to gain an advantage or tweak a nose or two...bums there always are.
By and large, registered trapshooters from ChairShooters to kids to Seniors were nicer to be around with the idea of doing well shooting and skeet shooters were easier to find a shooting buddy during a shoot or to receive pats on the back, and hear "let's go eat.".
I far preferred Trapshooters.
Somewhat generalized idea, but still apt I believe from what I saw over many years from the Grand down.
I even saw those who shot both disciplines act differently in each.
Ol Brent Umberger, was one such....He and I were in the Algonquins and a character he was.
Wouldn't that make an interesting book or article?...all the characters in trap or Skeet....especially Ohio-based.
I truely miss Trap....and the folks who shot it years ago.

Re long yardage, that was one place that trapshooters were more inclusive because it put more money into the possible pot and over 200 Handicap birds especially, it was a different and rarified game.

I used to work with a fella in Parkersburg, Wva who was a benchrester....patience, experience, consistency and calmness plus good equipment seemed important.
Pretty sure I lacked in all five....and still do!

I never noticed any class advancement. Then again, I never advanced...no where to advance to.

The skeet squads that I shot on encouraged each other...to a point. More like "Head down, swinging...everybody works". Congratulatory fist bump after the 25 straight, handshakes after 100. Everyone knew what, how much and when to encourage and when to stay quiet. Then, in the shoot-off, where everything was really decided, it was deadly serious.

I've run across equal shares of real buttheads in every game. Bad sportsmanship, sandbaggers, cheats, drunks, etc. Seems like it's about 1% out there in everything, not just skeet, trap and clays.

Benchrest is a good game. Being an engineer, it gives me a creative outlet that I didn't have in the shotgun sports. Here is a link to a picture of one of my targets at a 200 yard shoot last season. The bottom target is a sighter. The top is the record target. The goal is to shoot 5 shots in as small a group as possible. I shot the top two shots on the sighter, then went to my record target. It as pretty windy. After the 5th shot, I was feeling my oats and went back to the sighter and finished a somewhat imperfect smiley face. The point to this is what an average shooter can do with a bit of dedication.

http://s52.photobucket.com/albums/g39/G ... edia_share

Mountaineer · Post by **Mountaineer** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 12:14 pm

Exactly!...The Fist Bump...I hate the fist bump.

I think that supportive action derives as much from the milling nature of skeet shooters awaiting their turn behind a station as much as anything.
Trapshooters never mill when shooting.

1%....I would term that a tad +++ low in clay sports.

I envy a good rifle shooter...well done.
I'm a petroleum engineer....must be something more in Benchrest.

Post by **Greg Jennings** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 12:27 pm

The little fist bump is a tradition. It was a already a long-standing tradition when I shot years ago.

IMHO, it derives from the approach to the mental game. It's a partial release from the pressure to be perfect.

Benchrest seems to have a very high percentage of machinists, T&D guys and, for some reason, drag racers. I sure wish I was a top-notch machinist. It would save me a lot of money...

Mountaineer · Post by **Mountaineer** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 2:23 pm

Well, somehow I can't see Bogardus giving a fist bump to another shooter.
So I can't buy any tradition angle.
I think it an adaptation from some silly idea of sports bonding....it deserves to be forgotten, IMHO of course.
For many reasons but mainly because any pressure release could only be one-sided and timing critical....fist-bumpers and back-patters per shot may want to consider that not all on a squad think the same.
Shooting is most often a solitary and individual endeavor in the doing....and the pressure releasing.

The benchrester I knew, who was photographed in Carmichael's Book Of The Rifle, worked in a personnel department of a company.
I expect benchresters run the gamut.

Gordon Guy · Post by **Gordon Guy** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 2:31 pm

JoeFriday wrote:... what would be the advantage of using the SxS? Is it a balance thing? Or being able to track the bird better?

It's like the "Why a Harley Davidson?" question. If you have to ask... you won't understand the replies.

SeriousBirdman · Post by **SeriousBirdman** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 3:28 pm

SxSs seem to point quicker, which is why (+ tradition) some hunters like them, notably ruffie hunters. I just can't hang with the forend -- except for one I tried a/ a beavertail and luckily couldn't buy because it was $7K! Any shotgun in good hands will operate great, of course....

Wenaha · Post by **Wenaha** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 4:36 pm

The SxS gun was developed and refined as a game gun. There are a host of reasons - ergonomic, sentimental, and functional for using a SxS gun. I shoot SxS guns because I want to and because I shoot them better than any other type.

But who cares? Use whatever works.

live4point · Post by **live4point** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 5:27 am

The sxs came about to give the hunter ans extra shot.Originally joining the barrels in the side by side fashion was out of necessity as the early guns had hammers.A hammer gun would have been one weird contraption if the barrels would have been stacked.I, like many others like the tradition of the old sxs guns,but whats ironic is many of the real old timers who had to carry the old side by sides,the majority of which were 12 ga. and on the heavy side, were dang glad to see the pumps and autos come along,it gave them the extra shots and generally less weight to pack around,they bought the new guns and the old sxs stayed on the rack.I bet a lot of the now long gone bird hunters of the past would wonder why in heck us guys would pack a 7 1/2 pound sxs when we could pack a 5 1/2 pound Franchi or Benneli auto.They probably would think we didn't have good sense

Ryman Gun Dog · Post by **Ryman Gun Dog** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 8:03 am

Gentlemen,

The traditional SxS double gun runs deep in our family, we have owned them for many generations and the guns are passed down thru the family.
I like good side lock double guns with double triggers, for instant choke selection while hunting Grouse, I like O/U guns also, but I was raised with a SXS.
Most O/U's have no DT, although they are available on certain guns. For me the SST with even light gloves in the Grouse woods, when the weather is below
15 degrees is problematic. The DT's are much more reliable for instant choke selection, although the Churchill safe and ST come pretty close.
To me there is nothing like the feeling of having my Grandfathers good L.C. Smith double guns in the Grouse woods, hunting over a fantastic Pa, Ryman Grouse dog.
Its part of our way of life here, no O/U gun is ever going to replace that. Most competitions today are won with O/U guns, however in the past many were won with SxS
double guns, in fact in a lot of completions only SxS doube guns were used. However the only competition I am involved with, is shooting Thunderking behind a serious Grouse dog, and most times I want my SxS double gun when I am doing it.
If a man is looking for true speed in downing clays, nothing much beats the old Win Model 12 or guns like it, after watching Parsons, Satterwhite and Stack there is no doubt the old pump gun has no equals for shotgun speed shooting.
RGD/Dave

The new and the Original L.C. Smith double guns, SxS American Classics

With French Walnut stocks even on the modern 28.

live4point · Post by **live4point** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 7:39 am

There you go,it's all a matter of preference,different strokes for different folks.I hunted with a double trigger for a couple years,and I don't like them at all.I won't buy a gun that has them.To me, neither trigger is where it ought to be,one is too far forward,the other too far back,just plain don't care for them.A couple of things that have come about with the more modern guns that I just don't like though, are for one recoil pads.In my opinion, all they are good for is catching on your shirt or jacket,they may be fine for a clays gun,but I don't like them on an upland hunting gun.Another thing I don't care for is the silver colored receivers,I wish the gun company's would realize we don't all like silver receivers,I've owned a couple myself,just because that happened to be all I could get with the particular guns,but to me they just make the guns look cheap.Don't care for them at all.In the end,it's all about what each of us like,and what works for us.If it fits and you shoot it good,you enjoy hunting with it,then that's the gun for you.I know of a multi-millionaire that hunts with an old pump that has a bunch of electrical tape holding the stock together,probably has made a lot of good memories with that old gun.

Post by **slistoe** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:08 am

Pistol grip, beavertail, recoil pad, silver receiver - doesn't speak of grace, beauty and fine lines to me.

Ryman Gun Dog · Post by **Ryman Gun Dog** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 10:39 am

Gentlemen,
Each to his own.
RGD/Dave

Mountaineer · Post by **Mountaineer** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:21 am

I prefer the look of an O/U with DTs....especially a straight grip.
However, the times I have gone to the back trigger, and back trigger successfully, have been few, comparably.
More a supposed advantage re choke selection than practical re gamebirds....woods or field.
Reliabilty today of DTs over a ST is also pretty much unimportant.

What it boils down to is we all can convince ourselves that any personal choice of any product is the best...whether it be from some tradition, at a price point or thru some theoretical mechanical or material advantage.
Most choices go bang and pointed correctly, most kill no matter the particulars of scattergun or load.

I have seen some so-called silvered receivers that look very nice and compliment the wood and engraving both...others have been simply a case of inexperienced over-buffing through the case-hardening and a good sales patter toward a buyer who wants desperately to believe.
I just bought an older Sweet 16....choked modified it will see some pheasant flushes...were it to be a little more open then it would work swell in the grouse woods.
Again, with gamebirds and other than at the extremes on either side...not much won't work....and work well.
In truth and on a real level...there is no Best.

displaced_texan · Post by **displaced_texan** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 8:47 pm

Mountaineer wrote: Again, with gamebirds and other than at the extremes on either side...not much won't work....and work well.
In truth and on a real level...there is no Best.

Very true.

Chukar12 · Post by **Chukar12** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 9:01 pm

SxS shotguns... why?

because side by side women are more expensive and considerably more trouble in the long run...

displaced_texan · Post by **displaced_texan** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 10:19 pm

Chukar12 wrote:
SxS shotguns... why?
because side by side women are more expensive and considerably more trouble in the long run...

Awesome!

MO_GSP · Post by **MO_GSP** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 10:32 pm

I think SxS are just neat and historic and fun that being said i sure do love ripping through some shells on the benelli too

Ryman Gun Dog · Post by **Ryman Gun Dog** » Sat Jul 30, 2011 9:03 am

Gentlemen,
I can fully understand how some people get attached to the simple eligant, splinter fore - ends and light German engraving, with no recoil pad and
semi pistol or english straight stock. I have different Elsie guns set up in different manners passed down to me by the men who used them.
Each is different and I love them all, one of my favorites is this #4 Elsie with splinter fore end, DT with French Walnut wood to die for, and light custom German engraving.
However the real Silver Breach L.C. Smith double guns, of which there are only a few in number, were special order double guns and were produced for their striking beauty and duribility, some have splinter fore-ends and some even have two BBls with different style fore-ends for the different BBls, all are very elegant double guns.

Pine Creek

A 16 Gauge Silver Breach Elsie with 28" BBls, DT, Semi Pistol Grip and incredible French Walnut wood, one of my favorite Grouse guns.

USMC · Post by **USMC** » Mon Aug 01, 2011 6:18 pm

It's not the arrow! It's the Indian.....

SeriousBirdman · Post by **SeriousBirdman** » Thu Nov 17, 2011 8:16 am

I can't get w/ the small forends and double triggers but they sure point quick....

Ryman Gun Dog · Post by **Ryman Gun Dog** » Thu Nov 17, 2011 1:18 pm

Gentlemen,
It all comes down to personal preference, I own everything from a M12 shotgun, Churchill O/U's and SxS Elsie double guns. Some have DT others SST or in the case of
the M12 a simple single trigger. The 16 Gauge M12 is a deadly little gun that our female clients dearly love, the young boys seem to like the Churchill 20 Gauge O/U with the SST. The older men like the SxS double guns with either DT or SST. I shoot Grouse with all of them, but I love my old Elsie DT SxS double guns best of all. The most important thing to remember is to always purchase a high enough quality weapon to pass on down thru your family, always invest in a quality weapon, no matter what kind of shotgun your preference runs too.
RGD/Dave

JKP · Post by **JKP** » Thu Nov 17, 2011 9:49 pm

You buy a SxS because its what tradition calls for...and because if 2 shots ain't enough, you shouldn't get a third.

wberry85 · Post by **wberry85** » Fri Nov 18, 2011 9:42 am

If we were supposed to shoot O/U's, God would have made us with our eyes on top of each other!

nj gsp · Post by **nj gsp** » Sat Nov 19, 2011 3:29 pm

I have SxS's and O/U's. Some have double triggers, some have a single trigger. I like them all, but I prefer certain ones over others depending on the situation. Perhaps it's easiest for me to break down these "situations" as fair weather guns, foul weather guns, and dog training guns. As far as preferring one type over another, my preference is largely based on gun fit & carry weight.

DonF · Post by **DonF** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 11:14 am

Isn't there a law that says that if you hunt behind pointing dogs, you must use a SxS? I'm sure I read that somewhere!