comparing berettas?

[Stilly Bay]

Im looking into getting a new over and under, and i am vacillating between a beretta silver pigeon II or the beretta ultralight deluxe.
besides price and engraving how much of a difference is there between these two guns?

I looked at some browning citoris and while great guns they seem a bit on the large side in 12gauge, the silver pigeon II advertise a low profile... how much lower profile are talking about in comparison to the citori's or even the beretta ultralight delux?

thanks in advance.

[mrrosey]

I shoot a silver pigeon III for sporting clays and hunted with it for a a few years. I bought an ultralight two season's ago. I KNOW LOVE both guns. The ultralight is 6 lbs vs 8 for the three. The 2 lbs is a big difference after a few hours in the field. When I first got the ultralight I had trouble mounting the gun and swinging it . It was TOOO light. It needs to be fitted pretty good. I had mine cut down a little shorter than the three. It was easier to mount shorter. I shoot high brass 6 and recoil is no problem to me. It took me a year to figure out how to shoot consistantly. I now like the ultralight . But a year ago i was going to sell it.

[mcbosco]

Don't forget the Beretta White Onyx, its plain jane but the same underneath...great deal.

if you go with a Citori there was a special edition Lightening last year that was selling for about 1,000 - 1,200...was a very striking gun, dark wood color cased...very old school looking

[Shadow]

both are nice- have you handled a Citori

[NM quail hunter]

I own several citoris (lightening and upland special 12ga.) and owned one 686 white onyx. The brownings are nice sturdy guns and can be found quite a bit cheaper than the berettas. Although the beretta I owned was light, fast, accurate, well made, and had a lower profile reciever than the brownings; the only negative I ever heard on the beretta was from a friend I hunted with that had a silver pigeon and he complained of the recoil. The recoil never bothered me and I regret selling that gun everyday. Hope this helps!

[tdhusker]

I prefer the Beretta's to the Citoris. I've owned a number of Browning O/U's. Clays guns and field. The Beretta does have a lower profile receiver, generally have a bit more cast. I prefer the Beretta's but I'll admit that I don't care for how the field grade 12 gauges handle but really like the clays guns and smaller guage guns.

You didn't say what you intend to use the gun for and to me, that has much to do with your choice. If you intend to spend much time shooting on a range, the ultralight with it's aluminum receiver is a poor choice. It will wear quicker and you pay for that light weight with more recoil. If it is primarily a field gun and you intend to hunt upland, I'd suggest a SPII in 20 gauge. Weighs a bit less than the ultralight and you get the handling qualities of the trim profile 20 ga receiver.
If 12 ga is a must and you intend to hunt upland, the ultralight then makes some sense.
Other posters have stated that the lower grade guns are the same as the SPII, not really the case though. I think you can get the Optima barrells with the SPII sporting clays gun. That, in my opinion, is a far superior handling shotgun to the field grade Beretta. Try one out and you'll see what I mean.

[Shadow]

good points- but man- have you even handled some of the O/U- or just shoping the net

[Stilly Bay]

thanks for all the input.
I went to a local gunshop and shouldered the berettas... nice guns but the LOP is way too long for me. I ended up falling for a 20ga cynergy field of all things. Never thought I would ever contemplate a cynergy but that thing fit me perfectly.

[Shadow]

that's the way to do it-

[tdhusker]

thanks for all the input.
I went to a local gunshop and shouldered the berettas... nice guns but the LOP is way too long for me. I ended up falling for a 20ga cynergy field of all things. Never thought I would ever contemplate a cynergy but that thing fit me perfectly.

They're a nice and trim little gun, Beretta-like in handling quality. If you have any issue it will be the triggers. I think there are some smith's out there who can do a good job with the Cynergy triggers. If you find yourself fighting the gun and your timing, it's probably the trigger. If it were me, I'd check the pull weights right away and get them cleaned up if necessary (about a 99% chance of that). I've shot Cynergy clays guns that have had trigger work done and they are an excellent handling and shooting gun.

[Shadow]

[quote="tdhusker"]they're a nice and trim little gun, Beretta-like in handling quality. If you have any issue it will be the triggers. quote]

so please explain Beretta-like in handling quality- being that I'm a Browning fan

[tdhusker]

they're a nice and trim little gun, Beretta-like in handling quality. If you have any issue it will be the triggers. quote]

so please explain Beretta-like in handling quality- being that I'm a Browning fan

The shallow receiver design has a lot to do with it, makes for a lower profile and loweer line of recoil. The Cynergy was designed this way for a reason, ya know. Browning and Beretta make some nice barrel profiles that let you shoot longer barrels without adding weight on their clays guns. Browning offers these in lower priced models than Beretta. From my perspective, the Beretta clays guns just handle, shoot and fit better. As far as everyone else, I'm sure you can find guys who much prefer the Brownings. The Berettas that I've shot and own also have better triggers. Triggers do make a difference. Like I said in an earlier post, a Cynergy clays gun with a trigger job would make me pretty happy if I were to get a Browning.

[mcbosco]

In the end its fit, but if both fit well then service is paramount. The gunsmith at my club is famouse for saying "any idiot gunsmith can bring an italian gun back to spec"

[Shadow]

I've got a Beretta and a Browning- I laugh- triggers on Brownings need work- and a fella's gun smith says any nut can make them good- priceless

[A/C Guy]

thanks for all the input.
I went to a local gunshop and shouldered the berettas... nice guns but the LOP is way too long for me. I ended up falling for a 20ga cynergy field of all things. Never thought I would ever contemplate a cynergy but that thing fit me perfectly.

Until you shoot several rounds at a pattern board, you really can't tell if it does fit you perfectly. I have made the same mistake, bought a gun because in the store it seemed to fit perfectly. Got out to the patterning board and the POI was too many inches left or right of POA. Time to get out the rasp and sander to get the fit correct.

[tdhusker]

I've got a Beretta and a Browning- I laugh- triggers on Brownings need work- and a fella's gun smith says any nut can make them good- priceless

You ask for opinion and then ridicule, never offering your own. Perhaps your approach could use some refinement. I think that if you were to look around a bit, it is pretty much a concensus amongst competition shooters that the Cynergy triggers are awful. I've owned and shot Beretta and Browning clays guns. The Berettas had better triggers with consistant pull weights between the two triggers. The Brownings didn't. To be honest, I don't know if that's the case anymore. i look at the higher grade Berettas in the store and they have definitely slipped in build quality. I also see them selling 525 clays guns for some very low prices too, maybe they are both cheapening the lines?

[Shadow]

whew- you feel like your feathers have been pulled-

seems we've been here before- where's

didn't quite mean to ask for an opinion or to ridicule- I was laughing

my lowly little Citori and AL2 feel bad- suppose you feel the Browing A Bolt has a bad trigger too

I'm no expert nor have I tested and inspected 100's of gun like you- but I do like Browning

[Greg Jennings]

From my perspective, yep, the A-Bolt does have a crappy trigger. Then again, every factory hunting rifle does. If you've never shot a Anschutz, Suhl, Winchester 52-D, or a custom Arnold Jewell, you just don't yet know what a good trigger is.

[Shadow]

really Greg-
I have the Gold Medalian .338 Winchester Magnum Boss- it has two trigger settings- guess you'd have to try it out

[Greg Jennings]

Yes, really. My father has one in .270. OK factory hunting rifle, but they're a factory hunting rifle.

I'm pretty dialed in on what makes for a good trigger. See: http://www.gundogforum.com/forum/viewto ... 79&t=22607

While I'm thinking on it, what Sal is talking about with respect to a Beretta being rebuilt is not obvious unless you've looked in detail at a Beretta target shotgun. For example, when the hinge pins are threaded into the action. They can be replaced by the owner when they wear. Another example: there are 3 sizes of locking lugs. As the hole they fit into wears, one can easily go to the next larger size and keep the gun tight as new. When the last size gets loose, any smith can drill out and sleeve the hole and install the smallest lugs again. Those Beretta engineers put a lot of thought into those shotguns.

Now, how many hunters *ever* shoot enough to wear out a set of hinge pins or even one set of locking lugs? Daaaannnnggggged few.

Those kinds of details cost money and just don't make sense in a hunting shotgun any more than my 2 ounce, no creep, 3-lever triggers make sense in a deer hunting rifle.

Greg J.

[BigShooter]

You know trigger pull is kind of a funny thing. You sure notice the difference on a still target but when shooting moving game, afterwards the only thing I could tell you is the gun went off and the game stayed up or went down!

One of my rifles is a factory Ruger stainless, synthetic stock. Rugers are not necessarily known for either superb accuracy nor smooth triggers never-the-less you can get lucky with a factory gun. With an okay but not really smooth trigger and factory Federal ammo I managed a five shot group at sight-in with all holes touching at 100 yards. Number three son took over that new Ruger and harvested a pair of running deer with two consecutive shots at 250-300 yards.

My Beretta triggers feel better than my Browning's. I also like a medium weight gun as opposed to either an ultralight or an eight pounder but that's just personal preference.

I love an excellent trigger for competition but when I'm hunting I'm okay with anything above poor.

[Greg Jennings]

The difference is that with that factory gun, you have, what, once, twice, had a good 5-shot group? With a built-for-purpose rifle, you could do it consistently.

Similar with shotgun triggers. Get used to a good trigger and bouncing over to a really sloppy one will eventually cause little nagging issues.

It's not something that will ever get to a hunter, but over 3,000 targets a year? Yeah, it's something I noticed. I eventually quit swapping off to an 1100 and started shooting the tubed 20 gauge in the 12 ga and doubles events.

There is probably some bleed-over there from shooting rifles and it was a sloppier-than-normal 1100 trigger. It got to the point that I was having nightmares about shooting high 7 and not being able to get the gun to shoot no matter how hard I clamped down. Shooting is supposed to be fun; I put the 1100 down and had more fun.

Greg J.

[BigShooter]

Greg,

I'd say I hear you loud & clear but that went several thousand rounds ago!

I have four sons. As they were growing up that meant lots of shotguns and rifles. I prefer Berettas myself and have more Beretta shotguns than anything else. However for hunting I'll take any of seven or eight different brands out afield except for my Remington 11-87 'cause it just doesn't fit me well. One of my sons and his buddy used to love that gun but not me.

[Greg Jennings]

As long as there is no kid standing behind you saying "Lost" in a bored voice while your heart is down in your feet because you just dutched a target, it ain't a gonna matter.

I hunt with a Browning slush-a-matic or the ugliest synthetic 1100 magnum you've ever seen. They do fine. I do admit that I swapped the fire control with a better trigger into the 1100.

[Shadow]

I understand a hair trigger Greg-

[Greg Jennings]

If by "hair" you mean light and crisp (i.e., minimum travel) , that's about halfway to a really good trigger. A trigger that is the right weight for the job, crisp, consistent, safe and properly timed is a good trigger.

[Shadow]

whew Greg- went right over my head- I don't know much about all the mechanics of a fine trigger-

thought we were talking about bad triggers- I don't see bad triggers on my Browings, Beretta, or Rugers-

have a good day-

oh- having a blast reloading- thank you

[Mountaineer]

Just a note on shotgun triggers.
Pull weight becomes an issue only at either extreme or when shooting a very light shotgun for game.
Have a trigger that is less responsive, or slow, however and shooting flying increases in difficulty whether it be targets or birds.

I eventually went to a Bowen release for Trap...the difference was enormous and beneficial.
Obviously unworkable in the field but illustrates well what most of us seldom see...the difference a good trigger can make.

Most any trigger can be worked on...Cole did a couple 391s for me that were worth the money.
Beretta or Citori or Boss...triggers can be found good and bad on all.

[tdhusker]

Just a note on shotgun triggers.
Pull weight becomes an issue only at either extreme or when shooting a very light shotgun for game.
Have a trigger that is less responsive, or slow, however and shooting flying increases in difficulty whether it be targets or birds.

I eventually went to a Bowen release for Trap...the difference was enormous and beneficial.
Obviously unworkable in the field but illustrates well what most of us seldom see...the difference a good trigger can make.

Most any trigger can be worked on...Cole did a couple 391s for me that were worth the money.
Beretta or Citori or Boss...triggers can be found good and bad on all.

Consistancy between the two triggers on an O/U is important for obvious reasons and I have seen and heard of some pretty wild differences between upper and lower on some Cynergy's. I have seen some Beretta's that were lacking as well. I'll also say this, after shooting a whole bunch of shotguns for too many years, I never notice good shotgun triggers. The gun goes off when I want it to and that's about all. Bad shotgun triggers aren't always obvious unless you do some serious clays shooting with them. I will guarantee you that you'll be a better shot in the field and at the club with good triggers. Lock time has some real bearing on the matter as well. Premium clays guns place a great deal of emphasis on trigger pull and lock time as well as consisancy if they are O/U's. I think that most guys who have shot a fair amount of trap, SC or skeet are pretty impressed with a DT10 or Perazzi or K80 or similar gun the first time they fire it. Triggers like that don't come cheap.

[Greg Jennings]

Beretta *target* shotgun triggers are, in my experience, as good as any trigger made and better than many. I've shot just about everything other than the Kolar O/U.

[Mountaineer]

Any trigger can need work but not all triggers are easy to work on or possess the quality of steel necessary to hold the work done.

K-80s have outstanding triggers as they arrive.
Beretta triggers on field or target O/Us are the same and fine-ish...their SxSs less so...their 391s even less so.

Value of a good trigger is high but a lot of targets have fallen to less than optimal pump and auto triggers....mostly depends on what you can adapt to.
The problem really arises when shooting the latest rage of superlight scatterguns...add a trigger pull close to the weight of the gun and problems develop.
Many times the gun weight is blamed for misses when the trigger pull is the culprit...IMO.
My BUL has a fine trigger for a 6# 12 gauge.....shooting well incorporates a wide mix of factors with confidence at the top.