Gun Dog Forum

I am wanting purchase a 28 gauge over and under. My budget is around $500.00. I want also like for it to have screw in chokes. Does anyone any reviews. I have heard good things about the Stoeger sxs but I don't think it has screw in chokes and I would prefer an o/u, but may settle with a sxs if the price is right.

Thanks

I read some where that CDNN is having close outs on the CZ's for $499.A much better gun then the Stoeger fence post.

I actually checked CDNN last night, I think the only one at that price were 12s and 20s. I thought about ordering one in a 20 but I really want a 28. Currently I have a 28 Browning BPS, but it's alittle heavy for all day carry.

Unless you shoot in a 28ga league, go with the 20ga. You will be much happier and save a lot on shells. I got the itch for one several years ago, and wasted money on a 28ga. It was not any lighter and not any more of a pleasure to shoot than my comparable 20ga.

20 vs 28 weight depends if they were built on the same frame or not. The 28 can be built on a small frame and be proportionally lighter than the 20. Worth it? Depends on the person.

Cost is only if you buy factory shells.

Greg J.

Look at the CZ Canvasback. $550 is a tough budget for a decent 28 gauge.

Remington Spartan $418 shipped to your ffl. I bought one last year in a 12 and like it. check them out http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/prod ... s_id/14198

did Remington drop the Spartan line?

I can't help you with a recommendation...but I do have two 28s. One is an OU, a Beretta Silver Pidgeon Grade III, but it costs a little more than you're willing to spend. I also own a Remington 870 Wingmaster in a 28 ga, but it obviously only has a single barrel.
However, I love both guns. I've killed rooster pheasants behind a flushing dog with the Beretta, and I've shot ducks over decoys with the Wingmaster. Finding non toxic ammo is a little tough, as there are no inexpensive options. I shoot the Hevi Shot Classic Doubles load, at 5/8 ounce of 6s.
The Beretta patterns this load so well through a Modified choke that at 25 yards, you couldn't distinguish it at the patterning board from a 12 ga.
marshboy

Greg Jennings wrote:20 vs 28 weight depends if they were built on the same frame or not. The 28 can be built on a small frame and be proportionally lighter than the 20.

True, except no one makes a 28 gauge gun on a 28 gauge frame in the sub $1500 market, much less the $500 market the original poster mentions.

FWIW,
Dave

There's a used SKB 28 ga with some rust pitting on Shotgun World classifieds right now. You could probably get that gun for $500 and have a good quality gun, if you can live with some rust damage.

Dave Quindt wrote:

Greg Jennings wrote:20 vs 28 weight depends if they were built on the same frame or not. The 28 can be built on a small frame and be proportionally lighter than the 20.

True, except no one makes a 28 gauge gun on a 28 gauge frame in the sub $1500 market, much less the $500 market the original poster mentions.

FWIW,
Dave

Well, that's very probably the pure truth. I don't know beans about the ~ $500 market. I did do some looking around and didn't find anything that would say different. I even found some that the specs said were *several* ounces heavier than 20.

[quote="Greg Jennings
Well, that's very probably the pure truth. I don't know beans about the ~ $500 market. I did do some looking around and didn't find anything that would say different. I even found some that the specs said were *several* ounces heavier than 20.[/quote]

Greg,

A 28 gauge on a 20 gauge frame will be heavier than 20 gauge on a 20 gauge frame, as there is less metal removed from the monoblock. The raw block is the same piece of metal; drill two 28 gauge holes through it and you remove less metal than two 20 gauge holes. This is why a 686 28 gauge weighs more than a 686 20 gauge; the same goes for the Citori. The Beretta 687 baby frame 28 gauge is a true 28 gauge frame and is lighter than the 686. I believe the Cynergy is available on a 28 gauge frame. The Red Label 28 is a true 28 gauge frame. The SKB was not; those only came in a 20 or 12 gauge frame size. I don't believe any of the recent Eastern European imports, including the various Turkish guns offer a true 28 gauge frame.

FWIW,
Dave

Dave Quindt wrote:[quote="Greg Jennings
Well, that's very probably the pure truth. I don't know beans about the ~ $500 market. I did do some looking around and didn't find anything that would say different. I even found some that the specs said were *several* ounces heavier than 20.

Greg,

A 28 gauge on a 20 gauge frame will be heavier than 20 gauge on a 20 gauge frame, as there is less metal removed from the monoblock. The raw block is the same piece of metal; drill two 28 gauge holes through it and you remove less metal than two 20 gauge holes. This is why a 686 28 gauge weighs more than a 686 20 gauge; the same goes for the Citori. The Beretta 687 baby frame 28 gauge is a true 28 gauge frame and is lighter than the 686. I believe the Cynergy is available on a 28 gauge frame. The Red Label 28 is a true 28 gauge frame. The SKB was not; those only came in a 20 or 12 gauge frame size. I don't believe any of the recent Eastern European imports, including the various Turkish guns offer a true 28 gauge frame.

FWIW,
Dave[/quote]

Yah, I figured that about the monoblock, but thought the difference in the barrels would be enough for it to come out in the wash or at least not be *several* ounces heavier.

A used Red Label might be a good solution for our poster. The few that I've had in my hands felt good. They were stocked lower than I would like, but might be great for most folks. Don't think it's going to be $500, though.

Greg J.

Greg Jennings wrote:
Yah, I figured that about the monoblock, but thought the difference in the barrels would be enough for it to come out in the wash or at least not be *several* ounces heavier.

A used Red Label might be a good solution for our poster. The few that I've had in my hands felt good. They were stocked lower than I would like, but might be great for most folks. Don't think it's going to be $500, though.

Greg J.

Much of it has to do with how well the barrels are made; easier to make a thick barrel than a thin one. The smaller the gauge the trickier it becomes to build quality barrels that are straight and don't contribute to convergence issues. Also easier to join a thick barrel to the monoblock than a thin one. Choke tubes makes things even worse; need to leave more metal at the choke so it becomes easier to just make a thick barrel.

Metal is cheap; labor is expensive. The American demand for choke tubes in every gun and 3" chambers in 12 and 20 gauge upland models, along with the need for steel shot-safe barrels makes things difficult. Add to that the assumption by many that a quality O/U can be built and sold for under $1k makes it even more difficult. Most casual shooters don't have any idea of the labor that goes into building an O/U, and how that compares in both time and labor quality compared to a repeater. The thing that is in the gunmakers favor is that most hunters never pattern their guns, so there can be huge convergence issues that go undiagnosed.

To the original poster, IMO you cannot regularly find a quality 28 gauge O/U for $500, new or used, that retains the qualities that make a 28 gauge O/U such a nice shooting iron. If you insist on looking at guns in that price range, I’d look at the Yildiz that Academy Sports sells.

JMO,
Dave

My field gun is a Ithaca (SKB) 28 gauge. You'd have to pry my cold /stiff hands off of it to get it away from me. I also owned a SKB 20 gauge model 500 (same gun- diferent gauge) The 20 weighed a bunch more and didn't balance out anything like the 28 does. All the "more material in the monoblock/more weight" is a bunch of crap. BTW, don't mess around with all the crappy brands out there. Go with one of the B guns or a Ithaca/SKB at a minimum. WDO

When you get frost bite while carring that 28 SKB call me I will pry it out of your hands.

Thanks to everyone for all the input. A lot of things were brought up that I didn't think about. That being said I think I'll stick with my 20 semi-auto and the 28 pump use the money to buy another GSP pup. He should be here in a couple weeks, I'll be sure to post some pics.

Thanks

ah- a pup is far better than buying a third gun

but- if you have a Cabela's store not to far from you might want to go visit their gun department- you can always look and think about getting one- maybe even someone is looking for the ultimate gift to get you to go along with the new pup

last year at the one In KC they had quite a few guns- handled a couple nice 28 guages- when asked they said they'd be willinjg to look at mine for a possible trade in- I do like 20's- was my first gun at 13 and found I like them so have stuck with the 20

I just got my dad 28 gauge 870. I was really suprised to learn that the 28 is actually the lightest 870, even lighter than the .410.
CHAZ

A little out of your price range as well is the Ruger Red Lable 28 O/U. I have one and it's fantastic. It is built on the smaller 28 frame. Search around, it may be worth it to throw in a few more $$.

I just picked up a CZ Redhead 28. Had it out for the first time today on some chukars, seems like a great gun. I even shot some steel shot thru a cylinder choke (comes with 5 chokes) and took a couple birds at pretty good distance. Very happy with my purchase

Dave Quindt wrote:

Greg Jennings wrote:20 vs 28 weight depends if they were built on the same frame or not. The 28 can be built on a small frame and be proportionally lighter than the 20.

True, except no one makes a 28 gauge gun on a 28 gauge frame in the sub $1500 market, much less the $500 market the original poster mentions.

FWIW,
Dave

The CZ is on a 28 gauge frame for around a thousand dollars, but could probably be found cheaper by shopping around.

Charlie

birddogger wrote:

Dave Quindt wrote:

Greg Jennings wrote:20 vs 28 weight depends if they were built on the same frame or not. The 28 can be built on a small frame and be proportionally lighter than the 20.

True, except no one makes a 28 gauge gun on a 28 gauge frame in the sub $1500 market, much less the $500 market the original poster mentions.

FWIW,
Dave

The CZ is on a 28 gauge frame for around a thousand dollars, but could probably be found cheaper by shopping around.

Charlie

You are correct I believe my CZ is right at 6 lbs and I paid $500 for it, very slightly used. Perfect wood and bluing.

Gentlemen,
We tested the 28 CZ at Nemacolin and for repetative shooting, she has a couple problems, after the 1st 100 rounds the CZ stated to double and she became very very warm. Now for a regular upland hunting weapon she might not have problems, but the Ruger 28 O/U had neither problem and it is also built on a 28 frame. IMO a quality weapon should be able to repetatively shoot clays and be used for upland hunting both.
RGD/Dave

a friend of mine has 3 red label Rugers.

2 of the 3 have started to have no firing issues and or barrel selector issues and need to be sent in to be fixed. Ruger told my friend on the phone it would be like 500 bucks to fix them individually :roll:

obviously they knew of the issue as they had a set response and price to give for the fix. The price i quoted is my best recollection and it may have been more.

I bought a Mossburg silver reserve o/u and i love it , it shoots great. But in the last year it has developed a double fire issue , mostly with 3 inch shells. Real shame and I haven't called them yet to see what it'll take to fix it.

I don't like the fit or feel of the Rugers & think they are way over priced & don't hold their value very well.
They would be my last choice.JMO

Try any scattergun on for size.
While I found a 20 Ruger a bit heavy, I have three friends who love their 28 gauge Rugers for grouse and woodcock.
They have had no mechanical issues and neither did I.

Odd how we all have differnet experiences, I wouldn't case any Mossberg or a CZ on a bet.
But many folks swear by them.

Once again, try any scattergun on for size...for you.

BD68,
The Ruger guns you had that doubled were any of them 28 guage guns? I did see a 20 guage Ruger that had a doubling issue one time, did not know it would cost $500.00 to have it fixed however.
RGD/Dave

Ryman Gun Dog wrote:Gentlemen,
We tested the 28 CZ at Nemacolin and for repetative shooting, she has a couple problems, after the 1st 100 rounds the CZ stated to double and she became very very warm. Now for a regular upland hunting weapon she might not have problems, but the Ruger 28 O/U had neither problem and it is also built on a 28 frame. IMO a quality weapon should be able to repetatively shoot clays and be used for upland hunting both.
RGD/Dave

Any gun maker can put out a dud or a lemon. On a different forum a member conducted a durability test on a CZ/Huglu Canvasback.....15,000 shells later not one problem. Thats a lot of hunting or clays..

I wouldnt use the CZ's for breaking clays, they are field guns...

JWP58,
You are absolutely correct sir the CZ is a field gun, we were testing the gun to see what kind of quality was actually built into the weapon.
As a field gun the CZ is not a bad little gun, what I was pointing out is that a quality weapon should be able to handle both jobs without problems.
We expected the gun to over hear a might, but we did not expect to see the doubling problem.
RGD/Dave

Ryman Gun Dog wrote:JWP58,
You are absolutely correct sir the CZ is a field gun, we were testing the gun to see what kind of quality was actually built into the weapon.
As a field gun the CZ is not a bad little gun, what I was pointing out is that a quality weapon should be able to handle both jobs without problems.
We expected the gun to over hear a might, but we did not expect to see the doubling problem.
RGD/Dave

So you are saying you can look at a gun and know what problems to expect. That is good. But how can you come up with a meaningful conclusion by shooting one gun? As was pointed out others have tested and found the exact opposite. Sounds to me someone has the cart well out in front of the horse when they report conclusions before even developing a protocol for the test.

Ezzy

I have a CZ Redhead in 20 gauge and it has thousands of rounds through it from skeet and not one bit of trouble. The action is still too tight and lever still off to the side. The hammer springs seem fine as well.

Does it have the quality of a Beretta, Rizzini or Browning, no, but don't tell the little Red Head that.

You do have to think whether it makes sense to pay $800 for a CZ though.

mcbosco wrote:You do have to think whether it makes sense to pay $800 for a CZ though.

What do you mean by that...do you think that is too much to pay?

I have become a fan of CZ shotguns.

I have the Woodcock Deluxe - 20ga, 26'' barrels
http://www.rrarms.com/catalog.php?prod=G06063

I also have the Ringneck-12ga, 28" barrels
http://www.rrarms.com/catalog.php?prod=G06101

Lots of shells with zero problems...knock on wood .

I've never owned one but a lot of friends do and as yet am waiting to hear of a single problem with them, either in the field or shooting clays or skeet.

Ezzy

ezzy333 wrote:I've never owned one but a lot of friends do and as yet am waiting to hear of a single problem with them, either in the field or shooting clays or skeet.

Ezzy

I do like mine, and like your friends have not had one problem, but I also have two Italian guns, and of course they were more money but anyone that has taken wood shop or metal shop can see the difference.

Functionally, it is a solid gun but I don't know if I could shell out that much money for it again. I have seen too many better, used guns with barely a box of shells through them for that price.

mcbosco wrote:The action is still too tight and lever still off to the side.

Both of mine were smooth out of the box. I like my CZ O/U as much as the Bereta O/U that I shoot. The Bereta is about 1.5 pounds lighter though (5 pound gun).

I meant the action "being too tight" as a compliment. It has held up really well.

mcbosco wrote:I meant the action "being too tight" as a compliment. It has held up really well.

Sorry, I misunderstood you .

Ezzy,
No cart was put before the horse, we tested one gun from the manufacturer as is usually done, and I gave the results of that one particular CZ weapon.
The gun doubled after about 50 constant rounds on the Nemacolin clays course. This is not to say every gun CZ makes does this, however after repetative use it very well might, the engineering might have had a problem, in fact from what I understand there was some work done by CZ to correct future problems of this kind.
I posted what actually happened during the shooting evaluation that was passed back to CZ. Yes you can tell if a weapon is going to become hot to hold, by the design of the fore stock, when the fore stock is small and light the gun usually becomes hot to hold after repetative shooting on a clays course. We had to let the 28 guage gun cool because after 20 shots the gun was pretty warm. I actually liked the CZ 28 guage because the gun is built on a real 28 frame, I might consider purchasing one some time to use as a dog training gun.
RGD/Dave

If you buy a CZ double, make sure its post 2005. Since 2006 the problems are few and far between. But if you do have a problem CZ will take care of you.

I cant wait to bust some pheasants with my new 12ga Bobwhite.

Just last week I looked at the Stevens 28 ga over/under. It was selling new for $529. I was quite impressed with the feel. Obviously not a Citori, but can't expect it to be for the price. The owner of the shop said they have sold a good number of them in various gauges the last couple years and have had one returned for faulty ejectors, otherwise no complaints. I went back to buy it a couple days later as I could not get it out of my mind. As luck would have it, it sold in those couple days. I may still go back to order one. It may be worth checking out. I don't know how easy they are to find as no other shops in the immediate area had them in stock.

I just put the first season on my TriStar 28 gauge. It is one of the new ones that weigh under 5 pounds. The first thing I done was buy a new set of Mobil chokes. The ones that come with it were not much. I have around 200 rounds through it with no problems. The gun opens and closes with ease. Points very well. The only bad thing I have to say about it is the triggers are a little heavy. So far, I am very happy with it. Don't hesitate if you are looking to buy one.

Gentlemen & Ladies,
I just invested in a new Spanish made L.C. Smith 28 Guage Double Gun, to add to my Elsie Collection. Marlin contracted the old Spanish Double Gun maker Zabala
Hermanos, to make both a 28 guage and .410 L.C. Smith double gun. My new modern L.C. Smith 28 Guage double gun, should arrive at Anthony Arms in West Mifflin
some time this coming week. I am looking forward to using this new Elsie for both gun dog training and Grouse hunting. IMO a very nice little modern 28 guage Elsie, with high grade Walnut Wood, ordance grade metals and modern Spanish engraving.
RGD/Dave

The modern 28 Guage L.C. Smith Double gun, by Spanish Gun Maker Zabala.


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