Gun Control

Post by **ezzy333** » Wed Feb 27, 2008 11:39 am

Every state that has allowed "Concealed Carry" in the past few years have had the crime rate go down immediately.

I don't think we should be too hard on Dudley, because he in basing his opinion on what the dreive by media publishes and you can not make a rational decision based on their liberal agenda.

Thats the main problem even here in this country.

Ezzy

romeo212000 · Post by **romeo212000** » Wed Feb 27, 2008 12:40 pm

Yes but the difference is the effort to become informed rather than relying on what the liberal media spews out.

romeo212000 · Post by **romeo212000** » Wed Feb 27, 2008 12:56 pm

Exactly. As previously stated. If you start placing limits where does everyone agree to draw the line. Dudley says no .50 cal machine guns. Another guys says not Autos at all. The next guy says semi-autos are not acceptable and now we have lost our right to posess a ruger 10/22 semi auto .22. Then the next guy says you know its just not sporting to have a semi-auto shotgun. The next guy says well some people can shoot a pump as fast as some semi-autos. So now they are not sporting and some agree that there is no problem with doing away with them. Till ultimately we are let with nothing but single shots and double barrels (which I love) and the posession of which is so controlled that its nearly impossible to posess even one. That my friend is called escalation.

dudley · Post by **dudley** » Wed Feb 27, 2008 2:25 pm

shout out to gar-dog hockey for life

and to who ever it was who mentioned the freedom of speech they have imposed limits on that to prevent salnder and character assasination yet it has not done away with the right completely. As for what limits i would put on fire arms possesion I would make a comprimise between what we have in canada(because some things here are messed up i can buy a M-14 with a normal license but an FN FAL which is also a semi 308. is illegal???) and what you all have in america. For example NO automatics of any kind, and a seperate license for hand guns and rifles under a certain lenght though again with out alot of the crap we have here, and i would do away with the right to carry a gun unless a sufficient need could be proven.

phermes1 · Post by **phermes1** » Wed Feb 27, 2008 2:46 pm

dudley wrote:i would do away with the right to carry a gun unless a sufficient need could be proven.

WOW.

Let's just say I'm glad you're not in charge.

romeo212000 · Post by **romeo212000** » Wed Feb 27, 2008 4:14 pm

You are exactly correct VZ. No concealed carry huh dudley. Do the facts posed to you concerning australia not mean anything to you? Do the stastics concerning the fact that states that have allowed CCW have seen immediate drop in crime rates not catch your attention at all. This is the classic attempt of the unimformed, media manipulated mindset to completely ignore the facts and reality and instead substitute their own. So do not complain to me when you are not allowed to own weapons at all in Canada because you have comprimised on this issue. And when that does happen please do not come down to the United States because we do not need anymore anti-gun votes. I have the right to own a fully automatic weapon to protect myself and my family from anyone or anything. I am truly sorry you do not enjoy that right in Canada, and even more sorry that you do not have a reasonable understanding as to why such a right is necessary. It truly makes me sad to see someone stick their head in the sand on such a blatant issue.

rkalgren · Post by **rkalgren** » Wed Feb 27, 2008 5:43 pm

Any law abiding citizen can provide "sufficient" reason for a carry permit. Just tell the issueing agent to watch the news and see how many robberies, murders,rapes,child molestations and any of the thousands of violent crimes are being commited.
I will keep my guns and I thank the founding fathers for their wisdom in creating the second amendment. I also thank the NRA for standing up for my rights, someone has to stand with me.

dudley · Post by **dudley** » Wed Feb 27, 2008 6:07 pm

This will be a never ending debate so lets agree to disagree.

Post by **ezzy333** » Wed Feb 27, 2008 6:16 pm

Good move.

Ezzy

romeo212000 · Post by **romeo212000** » Wed Feb 27, 2008 7:02 pm

Sometimes that is the best thing to do. But I want to commend everyone on their manners and intelligent and civilized responses during this discussion. I would be happy to have any of you with me to speak with any person or media outlet concerning gun control. You are all a great asset to these United States and to the Firearm community. Too many times the media shows some toothless redneck spouting off uneducated reponses to questions posed my the interviewer and this is no accident. It is nice to come across people like yourselves.

phermes1 · Post by **phermes1** » Wed Feb 27, 2008 8:06 pm

Now seems like a good time to break out with a few quotes from the great Ted Nugent.

There are hundreds of millions of gun owners in this country, and not one of them will have an accident today. The only misuse of guns comes in environments where there are drugs, alcohol, bad parents, and undisciplined children. Period.

The war is coming to the streets of America and if you are not keeping and bearing and practicing with your arms then you will be helpless and you will be the victim of evil.

My idea of fast food is a mallard.

nj gsp · Post by **nj gsp** » Fri Mar 07, 2008 8:56 pm

What we enjoy here in the USA is freedom: freedom to choose what we want, or don't want. The freedom to decide for ourselves what we need, or don't need.

You know, we don't need cars that can go faster than the speed limit. We don't need to make more money than we need to survive from day to day. We don't need to eat anything other than plain, simple foods. We don't need a lot of things.

But here in the USA, we have the FREEDOM to choose how we live our lives, and to decide for ourselves what we need based upon what we want.

The last thing we want is a government that tells us what we need, and only allow us to have what it says we need. The last time that happened, we declared our independence and fought a war to win it.

sjohnny · Post by **sjohnny** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 11:11 pm

Well, looks like I came into this one a little late but it's a subject that is very near and dear to my heart. I think the NFA should be repealed. I don't see that full-auto or short barreled guns should require anything more than other guns for their purchase.

I don't think felons should be prohibited from owning guns. If their debt to society has been paid their rights should be restored. This would only be possible if the criminal justice system in this country took its job seriously. I believe that if someone is too dangerous to own a gun they should not be let out.

I don't like background checks and I don't like having to fill out the paper every time I buy a gun. It's none of the man's business how many of what I own.

I don't like concealed carry permits. I'm glad I don't have to have one to carry and I don't think anyone else should have to have one either. Why do we need permission to exercise something that is supposed to be a right?

What part of Shall Not Be Infringed do they not understand?

John

markj · Post by **markj** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 2:10 pm

I threw my guns away really

BigShooter · Post by **BigShooter** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 3:57 pm

MJ,

We're willing to rescue abandoned guns. We clean 'em up, check 'em over and keep 'em well fed at our house.

M1

claybuster_aa · Post by **claybuster_aa** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 10:57 pm

sjohnny wrote:
I don't like concealed carry permits. I'm glad I don't have to have one to carry and I don't think anyone else should have to have one either. Why do we need permission to exercise something that is supposed to be a right? John

They are kind of a waste if you think about it, but I have one anyway. You have a concealed gun and you're at an ATM. You get your cash and you turn around, and there is a gun in your face. What are you going to do? You ARE NOT going to out draw that person. Sorry, you're just not, that is the way it goes. In most instances, the gun is already on you, forget about it, no matter how quick you think you are, you still can't out draw somebody with a gun on you...bottom line. Regardless, I enjoy my right to carry concealed. My most recent purchase was a Bobcat 25. Neat little pistol. I really like the NAA 32 Guardian, I may pick one up eventually. I also would like a Walther PPK 380 for some reason...a lot of history there.

sjohnny · Post by **sjohnny** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 6:01 pm

claybuster_aa wrote:
sjohnny wrote:
I don't like concealed carry permits. I'm glad I don't have to have one to carry and I don't think anyone else should have to have one either. Why do we need permission to exercise something that is supposed to be a right? John
They are kind of a waste if you think about it, but I have one anyway. You have a concealed gun and you're at an ATM. You get your cash and you turn around, and there is a gun in your face. What are you going to do? You ARE NOT going to out draw that person. Sorry, you're just not, that is the way it goes.

No, you are not going to outdraw someone who has the drop on you - whether your gun is concealed or not. But I think you misunderstood my point. I have no problem with people carrying concealed weapons. I don't believe people should have to have state permission to do so.

John

Post by **ezzy333** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 6:11 pm

Sjohnny,

Who do you think should have control? Someone has to keep people who shouldn't own a gun from getting one. I understand your position but I think it is clear someone has to have control of the whole procedure and decide who is eligable and who isn't.

Ezzy

sjohnny · Post by **sjohnny** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 7:18 pm

In my dad's day, allegedly, kids used to go down to the Monkey Wards with their paper route money and buy guns (this is what I've been led to believe by the old timers). Nobody checked on anything. Maybe check an ID to make sure they're of age but if your felony conviction is such that you are deemed too dangerous to own a gun then you should not be allowed out of prison alive. I'm really not concerned abput the guy who's a convicted felon for cheating on his income tax or some other non-violent crime owning a gun. I'd just as soon everyone have a gun that way I don't have to worry about whether they have one or not. I probably could be convinced to make a concession for the severely mentally ill.

John

dudley · Post by **dudley** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 8:54 pm

[quote="claybuster_aa"][quote="sjohnny"]

You have a concealed gun and you're at an ATM. You get your cash and you turn around, and there is a gun in your face. What are you going to do? You ARE NOT going to out draw that person. Sorry, you're just not, that is the way it goes. In most instances, the gun is already on you, forget about it, no matter how quick you think you are, you still can't out draw somebody with a gun on you...bottom line.

Amen.

BigShooter · Post by **BigShooter** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 9:59 pm

D,

"Amen" what? Amen ... with gun control no one could ever stick a gun in your face at an ATM? or Amen ... with gun control you would not be carrying a concealed gun so you would be safer if someone stuck a gun in your face at an ATM? or Amen .... in all instances where you are threatened with a gun or fired upon you could never draw or return fire?

As a practical matter in our state before concealed carry, an individual could not legally carry a hunting handgun underneath their clothing to protect it from the elements, even when out in the woods hunting.

gar-dog · Post by **gar-dog** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 10:11 pm

Rob Pierce, Jr. was walking to dinner when two men, one a self-proclaimed Crips gang member and the other wielding a handgun, accosted him. With a gun to his back, Pierce was dragged across the street to a dimly lit area and told he was about to be killed. “It was like heck,” he explained. Pierce, a concealed-carry permit holder, drew a .357 revolver and shot one of the suspects, causing both suspects to flee. They were later apprehended. Northampton County, Pa., District Attorney John Morganelli said he hoped the incident would teach “these young thugs” that the good guys might be armed. “We don’t expect our citizens to wait and get shot. As long as I’m district attorney here, I’m probably going to err on the side of the citizen,” Morganelli said, adding he supports concealed-carry laws. (The Morning Call, Allentown, PA, 12/06/07)

sjohnny · Post by **sjohnny** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 8:17 am

vzkennels wrote:If some one ever sticks a gun in my face I'm not going to just roll over & let them shoot me I'm going down fighting.I would never neal down & let some one put a gun to the back of my head.Don't get me wrong I don't ever want to be in that situation but I will give myself a fighting chance.

Right on! Just because the odds are against you does not mean you should roll over and give up. Just because you get shot does not mean you are going to die. You won't be able to outdraw him but that doesn't mean you shouldn't try. Too often people these days are shot anyway after they comply with the crook's orders. I won't hand over my stuff in this day and age as I assume the guy is going to shoot me anyway.

John

markj · Post by **markj** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 9:08 am

and i would do away with the right to carry a gun unless a sufficient need could be proven.

Since friday 3 have been shot dead in Omaha, close to me. These guys didnt go thru normal channels to purchase, they went to the projects and bought stolen guns and shot it up. I am applying for a CCW now.

MJ,

We're willing to rescue abandoned guns. We clean 'em up, check 'em over and keep 'em well fed at our house.

M1

If I could only find the map....

claybuster_aa · Post by **claybuster_aa** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 8:10 pm

sjohnny wrote:
vzkennels wrote:If some one ever sticks a gun in my face I'm not going to just roll over & let them shoot me I'm going down fighting.I would never neal down & let some one put a gun to the back of my head.Don't get me wrong I don't ever want to be in that situation but I will give myself a fighting chance.
Right on! Just because the odds are against you does not mean you should roll over and give up. Just because you get shot does not mean you are going to die. You won't be able to outdraw him but that doesn't mean you shouldn't try. Too often people these days are shot anyway after they comply with the crook's orders. I won't hand over my stuff in this day and age as I assume the guy is going to shoot me anyway.
John

Don’t get me wrong people, I enjoy my right to carry as much as the next person. I think they are overrated though. Obviously there are situations they can help you out! You're in a shopping mall and hear POP POP POP. You take up your position, hope the SOB heads your way and you take 'em out. You see a car jacking heading your way. You ready your gun, you see his gun, he opens the door and BOOM, one less scumbag in the world. Yes, I enjoy my right to carry...but I still think they're overrated. You're not going to out draw somebody. You’re at the ATM, you turn around and it's on you, you probably are going to give up your cash.
But you can hope you don't get shot, wait for him to turn around, pull your gun and rob 'em right back. I don't think I would shoot someone in the back though after being robbed. I'd rather see the look in their eye when and watch 'em go that way.

A friend of mine was being tailed one day in town by one of the longhaired freaky looking types. No doubt a drug head, and this guy was eyeballing him. He’s older too, in his 70's (my friend Sully). So he's still waking down the sidewalk, and the car pulls up across the street, stops, the freak gets out the car and is across the street still checking him out. He opens up his jacket, shows him the holster, gives his .45 revolver a pat like he means business, and the freak high-tailed it right back to his car and sped off, not to be seen again! Of course a CCP and help you out, but I still think they're overrated.

utahmomof4 · Post by **utahmomof4** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 8:37 pm

Concealed weapons are overrated... until you need one. Then they are invaluable. I'd rather be in the realm of overrated than in the realm of the dead.

It would be possible to distract the thug at the ATM just long enough to pull your own weapon. That possibility negates any sense that being able to protect yourself is overrated. My opinion.

sjohnny · Post by **sjohnny** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 8:48 pm

utahmomof4 wrote:Concealed weapons are overrated... until you need one. Then they are invaluable. I'd rather be in the realm of overrated than in the realm of the dead.

It would be possible to distract the thug at the ATM just long enough to pull your own weapon. That possibility negates any sense that being able to protect yourself is overrated. My opinion.

Right on! I take personal responsibility for my safety and that of my family. My gun has prevented me from being a victim on a couple of different occassions without me firing a shot. I carry on the job and have to go places that there is no way on Earth I would go unarmed.

As for "handing over my cash" - not going to happen. Not because of any macho John Wayne BS or anything but just because I do not believe that the crook is going to let me live after I hand it over. The face of crime has changed. Too often now they kill you anyway.

John

WolfMansDad · Post by **WolfMansDad** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 5:02 pm

sjohnny wrote:No, you are not going to outdraw someone who has the drop on you - whether your gun is concealed or not. But I think you misunderstood my point. I have no problem with people carrying concealed weapons. I don't believe people should have to have state permission to do so.

John

John, your attitude is a breath of fresh air to this Californian! I couldn't agree more.

sjohnny · Post by **sjohnny** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 6:02 pm

WolfMansDad wrote:
John, your attitude is a breath of fresh air to this Californian! I couldn't agree more.

It's unfortunate that something that seems so common sense is such a foreign concept to so many.