When to shoot a wild bird over a young dog.

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Agross
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When to shoot a wild bird over a young dog.

Post by Agross » Wed Sep 10, 2014 1:24 pm

Hey all, I have a question, I have a 16 month GSP male that has been training with NAVHDA since July 2014 and has been pointing birds well each time out.

I am new to pointing dogs but have read all I can and trying to steady him up and get him to whoa (in the yard to later transition to wild or planted birds).

I know that you are not supposed to shoot a bird that your dog bumps or a bird that flushes that wasn't pointed because it is not doing the dog any good. My question is this, I am going to hunt him this fall on grouse and woodcock in New York and wondered how long of a point would be acceptable to you before you shoot a bird.

Last time with NAVHDA he pointed about 30 seconds solid before I got on the check cord to keep him from creeping him and then slowly someone moved in to flush the bird (all the while I was holding him steady). He definitely would have broke on the flush as he is not that steady yet.

For example if I was walking down a trail and he was close (within 30 yards or so) and locked on point and remained pointing for the time for me to get next to him and then the bird flushed would it be OK to shoot??? As I said it would be his first wild bird and I don't want to set him back as he seems to be doing well so far.

RgrDraht
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Re: When to shoot a wild bird over a young dog.

Post by RgrDraht » Wed Sep 10, 2014 1:45 pm

If my dog pointed and allowed me to walk up next to him and the bird flushed on its own without him moving, then I would shoot.

If my dog pointed and the dog moved which created the flush, I would not shoot. Nothing will teach a dog bird manners better than a wild bird. The flushing wild bird when the dog moves is 10x better than a dead bird because you wanted to shoot his first wild point.

My Opinion

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Boolywooger
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Re: When to shoot a wild bird over a young dog.

Post by Boolywooger » Wed Sep 10, 2014 2:24 pm

One question I have... If a wild flush occurs, maybe not on his first encounter but at sometime during the hunting season, and the dog in no way causes it, for instance he is on my left and I cause the flush on my right, is it OK to shoot then?

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RoostersMom
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Re: When to shoot a wild bird over a young dog.

Post by RoostersMom » Wed Sep 10, 2014 2:57 pm

I wouldn't shoot wild flushes, only birds that a dog has pointed and handled correctly. It's not about shooting and killing birds this first year (really, ever) so you'll have to be really controlled if you want a dog that is steady. If you don't care that he bumps birds or chases then you can shoot whatever you want to.

Neil
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Re: When to shoot a wild bird over a young dog.

Post by Neil » Wed Sep 10, 2014 3:17 pm

I really don't have the energy for this again.

With my crew if a bird flies safely within range, it gets shot

I have never experienced any ill effects, in fact I am certain it adds to their drive. I just continue to train. A lot!

What happens in the field should have no bearing on my dogs manners.

Gooseman07
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When to shoot a wild bird over a young dog.

Post by Gooseman07 » Sun Sep 14, 2014 12:01 pm

My dog is 4 1/2 months old and I'm mad at myself that he hasn't had birds shot over him. It doesn't matter why, it just hasn't happened. Did you hunt the dog last year?

Agross
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Re: When to shoot a wild bird over a young dog.

Post by Agross » Mon Sep 29, 2014 5:12 am

No I didn't have a chance as he was young and I was inexperienced. I do own land upstate New York and took him on frequent runs (for lack of a better word) to cut him loose, call him back and overall get him used to the woods and listening to me. Then in winter we got dumped with snow so that put a damper on the late season hunts.

I had him in NAVHDA all summer, and he was pointing birds well. He needs work on his steadiness which I have been working on and well as solidifying "whoa".

This year I am going to get him out on wild birds, before deer gun season, and then after in December and mix in a few preserve hunts to get his bird #s up.

I will be hunting mostly grouse and woodcock with good populations of both by my property.

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Re: When to shoot a wild bird over a young dog.

Post by cjhills » Mon Sep 29, 2014 5:55 am

You would be surprised how forgiving dogs are.
When I go on a trip with my family and friends, they go to shoot birds. They do not care how pretty the dogs are. At least the first year if it flies in range it dies. Don't seem to make any difference the dogs steady up pretty good at two years old.
Gooseman why would you be upset over not shooting a bird over a 41/2 month old pup. There is plenty of time and earlier isn't better...Cj

Gooseman07
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When to shoot a wild bird over a young dog.

Post by Gooseman07 » Mon Sep 29, 2014 6:04 am

I have seen phenomenal dogs and they were shot over about a month and a half earlier than my boy. I really wanted to get him out the first week of dove and teal season but he wasn't shot over until the season was about over for early season. He's good now, I'm just a little worried about the water getting colder til middle duck season.

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ezzy333
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Re: When to shoot a wild bird over a young dog.

Post by ezzy333 » Mon Sep 29, 2014 9:04 am

RgrDraht wrote:If my dog pointed and allowed me to walk up next to him and the bird flushed on its own without him moving, then I would shoot.

If my dog pointed and the dog moved which created the flush, I would not shoot. Nothing will teach a dog bird manners better than a wild bird. The flushing wild bird when the dog moves is 10x better than a dead bird because you wanted to shoot his first wild point.

My Opinion
Good statement.
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blanked
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Re: When to shoot a wild bird over a young dog.

Post by blanked » Thu Oct 02, 2014 12:29 pm

If the dog points at all i am shooting. You need to show that you and him are a team and woodcock , grouse are what your after

fowl
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Re: When to shoot a wild bird over a young dog.

Post by fowl » Wed Oct 08, 2014 9:07 pm

4 1/2 months is really young. Let a pup be a pup. Take your time. Establish the basics and let the dog develop. Sure some dogs are ready early but pushing most dogs too early can cause problems. Slow down and make sure the dogs got a good foundation to build on.

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GrayDawg
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Re: When to shoot a wild bird over a young dog.

Post by GrayDawg » Thu Oct 09, 2014 4:49 am

So long as the dog has been properly conditioned to gunfire...........
..........shoot a wild bird over them once they point the bird. They must establish point or you don't shoot.
May all your dog's points be productive & your arrows avoid all timber

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Re: When to shoot a wild bird over a young dog.

Post by ridgerunner » Sat Oct 11, 2014 9:25 am

I am no expert trainer...... I hunt rough terrain in the Appalachian mountains and if a grouses flushes wild or a young dog bumps a bird...... I'm shooting.....

Neil
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Re: When to shoot a wild bird over a young dog.

Post by Neil » Sun Oct 12, 2014 6:42 pm

ridgerunner wrote:I am no expert trainer...... I hunt rough terrain in the Appalachian mountains and if a grouses flushes wild or a young dog bumps a bird...... I'm shooting.....
Someone should have already said plus one, the guys I hunt with it flies it dies, or at least it gets shot at, a lot. You guys make this dog training thing way too intense. For most, they just want a couple, 3 weekends out with their dogs to enjoy it all.

I have yet to see empirical evidence that leads a pointer to be a flusher. Just another old dog trainer myth, without facts to support.

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