Appalachian Grouse

ridgerunner
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Appalachian Grouse

Post by ridgerunner » Mon Oct 28, 2013 10:48 am

Just wandering if anybody in the southern appalachians has been out yet? I've been out a few times.....moved a few grouse and one woodcock. I haven't took a gun yet, but hope to do so soon!

nchunter2
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Re: Appalachian Grouse

Post by nchunter2 » Tue Oct 29, 2013 5:00 pm

I'm a novice to upland hunting, but went out Saturday for about 6 hours. Hunted in NW NC at around 4,600ft. Didn'tflush any birds. My 18mo old WPG enjoyed the hike, but I'd like to get her on some grouse one of these days. I'll certainly keep at it!

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mlittle
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Re: Appalachian Grouse

Post by mlittle » Tue Oct 29, 2013 10:23 pm

Hey ridge, didn't yuou used to hunt with Greenbrier from Knoxville?

ridgerunner
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Re: Appalachian Grouse

Post by ridgerunner » Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:10 pm

Yeah, that's me. I hunted with him a couple of times.

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mlittle
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Re: Appalachian Grouse

Post by mlittle » Wed Oct 30, 2013 10:01 pm

Great guy! I rememeber you from the other board. I am in your neck of the woods tonight. Be here through tomorrow.

ridgerunner
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Re: Appalachian Grouse

Post by ridgerunner » Thu Oct 31, 2013 5:45 am

Ah cool....hope you got to look him up! Just wandering if you have been hunting yet or is Ky season not open yet?

jack the dog
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Re: Appalachian Grouse

Post by jack the dog » Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:19 am

Southwest NC last Saturday, too many leaves on the trees and too much foliage to be able to see more than 20' in the grouse woods.
Didn't get anything up, 4,200 feet elevation, windy conditions and 21 degrees at 8:30 AM.

Maybe leaves will come off now that we had a cold snap and it's rainy. I haven't heard of much in the way of birds going on yet around here, just a lot of bear hunters and a few bow hunters out. Maybe soon.
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ridgerunner
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Re: Appalachian Grouse

Post by ridgerunner » Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:46 am

I think the appalachian grouse study took place at a WMA in SW North Carolina. Anyway, gotta get after them ...I have been buying a NC license the past few years...love it over there!

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boonebrit
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Re: Appalachian Grouse

Post by boonebrit » Thu Oct 31, 2013 6:31 pm

NW Nc... One hunt, no birds. 4~4500 ft on good land. Lots of junk birds, doves, etc in my grouse lairs. They will show... It's still thick.

jack the dog
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Re: Appalachian Grouse

Post by jack the dog » Mon Nov 04, 2013 12:10 pm

Update.
This Saturday, most leaves down, windy and it started sleeting.
No birds.
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nchunter2
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Re: Appalachian Grouse

Post by nchunter2 » Thu Nov 07, 2013 8:14 am

Hunted last Saturday north of Boone, NC at about 4,600ft. Windy! No grouse to be found. Quick question for your NC Mtn hunters, do y'all ever get on Woodcock in the same areas as the grouse? Always been curious on whether they're ever co-located in the same areas.

lockedncupped
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Re: Appalachian Grouse

Post by lockedncupped » Thu Nov 14, 2013 5:40 pm

Headed out tomorrow to try and find a grouse.....anyone have any promising reports to help me stay motivated? How about a good starting elevation? Thanks for any quit hitting tips. Probably start near Brevard, will have the fly rod in hand incase the grouse are just too tough.


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moe
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Re: Appalachian Grouse

Post by moe » Fri Nov 15, 2013 11:22 am

one of my hunting partners went earlier this week and moved 3 birds and got one. as bad as that sounds thats alot better than most of our trips.

lockedncupped
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Re: Appalachian Grouse

Post by lockedncupped » Mon Nov 18, 2013 8:06 am

Hunted near Brevard on Friday. Rained the entire time, made hunting tough... Not sure I enjoyed( Mountain) grouse hunting. I make an annual trip to Mich to hunt them each fall and love it, and as I type this I am thinking of heading to Pa to grouse and Pheasant hunt........Mountain Grouse are for sure the KING of game birds and not for the fat outta shape hunter like me. I also hunted alone and even with my compass was worried about getting lost in the woods. Every rd I drove never headed one direction for more than a couple hunted yards. I will try SC mountains next week when the season opens, but am glad I didn't buy a annual license in NC.

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Re: Appalachian Grouse

Post by jack the dog » Mon Nov 18, 2013 10:33 am

Missed one Saturday, bad shooting on my somebodys part.

Bbut heard others drumming, just could never get up with them.
Hunt in the grapevines, the only place I've found them this year.
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boonebrit
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Re: Appalachian Grouse

Post by boonebrit » Tue Nov 19, 2013 7:15 pm

Flushed one during a deer hunt this morning. NW NC. 4000+ elevation. Near water.

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Re: Appalachian Grouse

Post by Mountaineer » Tue Nov 19, 2013 7:38 pm

Hopefully, these southern, and central too, Appalachian ruffed grouse will get a reprieve from hunters after Dec. 31....for years, the decline has clearly indicated the wisdom inherent in not hunting past that date....in the hopes of helping just a bit the bird that many profess to admire.
At the wrong time of the season and conditions, flushing one is nearly as bad as shooting one.

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Re: Appalachian Grouse

Post by moe » Thu Nov 21, 2013 10:59 am

the only problem with not hunting after dec 31st (in tenn anyway) is that our deer season runs so long that alot of grouse hunters don't like to be in the mountains for fear of getting their dogs shot by deer hunters. our deer seasons don't close until up in jan.

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boonebrit
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Re: Appalachian Grouse

Post by boonebrit » Thu Nov 21, 2013 6:39 pm

I agree with both posts above... Never considered the adverse affect Whitetail hunters havre through accidental flushes... any data? Ill dig when I get a chance.

One would be crazy to run a Vizsla without orange in our neck of the woods right about now. Once muzzle loader kicks in, I keep my dog in. Additionally, I don't want to screw up anyone hunting public land whitetails.

jack the dog
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Re: Appalachian Grouse

Post by jack the dog » Fri Nov 22, 2013 10:34 am

Same here, I do not want to be the reason for the demise of the species, but here in WNC from Sept 9 - Dec 31 you have either Archery season, muzzle loader, gun (all these for deer), or bear season open, sometimes two or three of these at the same time. The deer hunters will shoot your dog, and the bear hunters dogs will kill or tear to pieces your bird dogs if they run up on them in the woods. Plus I don't like screwing up someone's hunting. So after Dec 31 is the only time small game hunters have the public land to themselves. The USFS gates close with bear season, which equates to even more walking, but no one is out there to contend with like the rest of the season. Sure I try to hunt during early season, but sometimes the big game hunters are already there in the good spots and public land is all there is here for grouse.

I wish NC would have an earlier, small game only season, but the archery hunters and bear hunters have better lobbyist than we grouse hunters have, at least here in NC. I wish the RGS would step up on this issue myself. Then I would be glad to stay home after the first of the year.
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Re: Appalachian Grouse

Post by volraider » Sun Nov 24, 2013 12:56 pm

I have hunted 3 times and moved 2 birds. I haven't seen any acorns to speak of so I expect this to be a rough year. It's been my experience that acorns = grouse. I think the lack of acorns keeps the birds in the mountain laural which makes them hard to hunt and find. When these birds move into the laural they start running like pheasants.

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Re: Appalachian Grouse

Post by MtnGrouseHtr » Mon Nov 25, 2013 5:04 pm

Been twice and jumped one grouse. Lots of grapes where I hunted, but no few birds.

KingLlew
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Re: Appalachian Grouse

Post by KingLlew » Tue Nov 26, 2013 9:08 pm

Jumped five on Friday and one yogi. Lots of grapes.

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GunnyStone
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Re: Appalachian Grouse

Post by GunnyStone » Sun Dec 01, 2013 5:49 pm

I hit Sun Bright/Wartburg, TN on Thanksgiving day looking for Grouse with my two Brittanys. Didn't even get a point. I scared up several big bucks though. I'm an active duty Marine stationed in Nashville and I'm not familiar with the area. Anyone having luck with Quail in Middle Tennessee?

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Re: Appalachian Grouse

Post by moe » Tue Dec 10, 2013 10:27 am

two of my buddies were out last week. one had four flushes on Friday and the other had six flushes on Saturday.

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GunnyStone
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Re: Appalachian Grouse

Post by GunnyStone » Tue Dec 10, 2013 7:40 pm

moe wrote:two of my buddies were out last week. one had four flushes on Friday and the other had six flushes on Saturday.

Where did they jump them?

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Re: Appalachian Grouse

Post by Ruffshooter » Wed Dec 11, 2013 9:46 am

Geesh guys sound like you might start hunting big foot, might have more sightings. Sorry, it is that way down there. Good luck guys.
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ridgerunner
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Re: Appalachian Grouse

Post by ridgerunner » Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:55 pm

We have grouse down here, not in the numbers that are up North or in the Lake States, but they are here. Hunting them down here is probably as challenging as any upland hunting there is! This season they are down , but there are pockets and 2 yrs ago there were more birds than I had seen in 8-10 years!

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Re: Appalachian Grouse

Post by rschmeider » Thu Dec 12, 2013 9:41 pm

Numbers are not same in lower Apps.,IMO when you get a drummer south of the great lakes it can be put on the wall..This one made a great meal and you won't throw the legs away like I see more north along the road
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moe
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Re: Appalachian Grouse

Post by moe » Fri Dec 20, 2013 1:34 pm

i am at work but one of my buddies and his son are out today and last report they have gotten four today. we haven't had a day like that in over 10 years.

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GunnyStone
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Re: Appalachian Grouse

Post by GunnyStone » Fri Dec 20, 2013 7:16 pm

moe wrote:i am at work but one of my buddies and his son are out today and last report they have gotten four today. we haven't had a day like that in over 10 years.
In East Tennessee?

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Re: Appalachian Grouse

Post by volraider » Sat Dec 21, 2013 9:20 pm

We hunted 3 hours Wed and moved 2 birds.

TNbirdhunter
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Re: Appalachian Grouse

Post by TNbirdhunter » Tue Dec 24, 2013 2:59 pm

Rough year in Tn.
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Re: Appalachian Grouse

Post by TNbirdhunter » Tue Dec 24, 2013 10:01 pm

I've been 4 times since December started, flew 0 once, 2 once, and 1 bird on the other two trips including today (all different birds with no reflushes). First 3 that I flew this year were wild with no chance at a shot, the one today flushed in front of a point about 10 yards away. It was in a rhododendron stand and I still didn't get a shot because I never saw it. I've hunted grouse since my early teens in Tn (north of Knoxville) which has been ~30 years. IMHO, the grouse bottomed out at the turn of the century and have never recovered. I routinely flushed 8 - 14 grouse a day up until around 2001, and then was lucky to flush 1-3, many times coming up blank no matter if I was hunting grapes, laurel thickets, creeks or mountain tops - they're just not here like they were. I decided several years ago to stop shooting birds after the middle of January because what birds I do find then through February seem to be already pairing up. I also start hunting in December regardless of the deer hunters although I have ran into a few that weren't happy when my dogs and I hit a strip pit they were on. I just shake it off because here in Tn they (and turkey hunters) already get all the focus and money from the TWRA over us small game hunters so I'm going to go when I can. I guess the only positives about hunting here is 1) the views and scenery, 2) there's not many other hunters anymore and 3) it sure makes me appreciate a week or so in Wisconsin each fall.

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Re: Appalachian Grouse

Post by Mountaineer » Thu Dec 26, 2013 6:20 am

TNbirdhunter wrote:... I decided several years ago to stop shooting birds after the middle of January because what birds I do find then through February seem to be already pairing up. ....
Well done, late season hunter additivity exists in the Apps....often with extirpation as a result.
Ohio eliminated February too late but not hunting past the middle of Jan. is a sound idea if the ruffed grouse actually matter.
Whether you shoot them or simply flush them so that they use vital reserves, are exposed more easily to avian predation or only leave their home ranges...the birds are affected. At times, equal to shooting them.

There is no true grouse cycle in the central and southern apps., comparable to that found in the UGLs, and I expect the continuing and steepening decline there is related to the normal big 3 of habitat change, post-hatch weather and predators along with all the lesser factors that a viable grouse population can absorb.
A un-researched health component may be involved in weakening rather than killing the birds....who knows?
Problem tho...the apps grouse populations have mostly fallen too low to recover as in years past...a tipping point is often where they exist.
That's why all the smaller factors of decline have gained in importance...one is late season hunters being additive to the continuing decline.

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Re: Appalachian Grouse

Post by ridgerunner » Thu Dec 26, 2013 6:42 am

I would agree that there is no true cycle, but there is natural lows in highs in the population. I too thought they were gone, but two years ago they were everywhere....at least in the area i was. So yeas this is a down year, but I know they can come back. I'm so sure of it that I bought another dog....it will be next season til I hunt him, but they will be back!

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Re: Appalachian Grouse

Post by Mountaineer » Thu Dec 26, 2013 8:26 am

Yes, highs and lows from local weather, etc....no cycle.

Ruffed grouse can return if the populations in an area are not too fragmented, if cover is available and if they get a few breaks.
Blip ups though in populations are common...whether those blips represent a trend up is the important question.
Often, they do not.
Often, folks hunt those blips and quickly return the birds to the previous decline curve.
Quite honestly, one year does not a trend make....give it 10 years and then see.
Additionally, it matters when you see "more" ruffed grouse.
if one finds them pre-dispersal or congregated by a food source, etc. then that may not be a good indicator of the population's viability...or huntability for want of a better word.
I stopped hunting in Ohio when birds/hour reached about 1 for every 2 hours....especially if they were grouped for some reason.
Moving 2-3 birds per day is not a population I would impact....each to their own.
Sadly much that is legal...is ill-advised.

Good luck...there are advantages in that hunter numbers have declined and so individual hunters can find, if accessible, those blipped up populations.
Whether that means the grouse are lucky is all about one's perspective and a look past one's own front sight.

It may be of interest that the ruffed grouse biologist in Ohio decided, last I heard, to not buy another grouse dog.
Ohio once had grouse populations to rival the UGLs today.
Portions of TN have the advantage of terrain and weather as limiters....you will likely find pockets of ruffed grouse remaining longer than Appalachian states not blessed with either tough terrain or harsh weather.
Again, only you can decide it that is lucky for the ruffed grouse...or for you.

Fingers crossed for you and the bird.

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Re: Appalachian Grouse

Post by ridgerunner » Fri Dec 27, 2013 7:02 am

I would agree moving 1-3 or even 4 birds in a hunt doesn't mean that there are a lot of birds.....in 2011-2012 I moved at least half a dozen birds most times that I went out and some days well more than that. I'm sure several factors went into that...mainly we had had 3 years in a row of a GREAT hard mast. Now I know that some may not consider that to be a lot of birds and maybe it wasn't , but I will take it any year....so I guess I will be always on the lookout for the next great year......sooner or later it will come!

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Re: Appalachian Grouse

Post by MATT4126 » Sat Dec 28, 2013 2:19 pm

Hunted GWNF in the western part of VA and trudged up and down the countryside for 4.5 hours and saw nothing but a rabbit and a flock of turkeys. Tired me and the dog out, but grouse are getting harder and harder to come by in Virginia.

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Re: Appalachian Grouse

Post by volraider » Sat Dec 28, 2013 3:13 pm

5 birds in 3 hours so it was a good morning for us. We hunted a 30 year old cut that is a tangle of grape vines and Christmas fern. We were talking today about all the money the state is letting rot on the ground. The hardwoods are getting old and falling over. We have tons of trees ready to cut but I guess the forest service would rather them fall over than get some money out of them.

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Re: Appalachian Grouse

Post by rolawson » Sun Dec 29, 2013 9:04 pm

volraider wrote:5 birds in 3 hours so it was a good morning for us. We hunted a 30 year old cut that is a tangle of grape vines and Christmas fern. We were talking today about all the money the state is letting rot on the ground. The hardwoods are getting old and falling over. We have tons of trees ready to cut but I guess the forest service would rather them fall over than get some money out of them.

It's not the Forest Service. They want to cut the trees. It is the group Heartwood that keeps them from cutting. They keep them tied up in court.

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Re: Appalachian Grouse

Post by volraider » Sun Dec 29, 2013 9:29 pm

It's been hashed out on here before but it's time the RGS starts suing to have trees cut. Tn has spent a ton of money on a forest management study and committted money to establish the study. They let the vocal minority stop anything they attempt to do.

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Re: Appalachian Grouse

Post by Mountaineer » Mon Dec 30, 2013 6:54 am

RGS has written off central and southern Appalachian ruffed grouse as a lost cause....plus, not enough banquet tables.
No help will be found there.

The SELC and others are a high hurdle....whether TN would find the Public sentiment to invest tax dollars in fighting obstructionists is unlikely, other states haven't.
Federal forest land management, of course, is another good cause unlikely to be won.
But, any answer lies not in Ruffed Grouse hunters....too small a group.
The answer, however unlikely to be realized, will be in the form of spreading the word of the benefits of a diverse age class of timber to the forest and it's critters....and to Man...with a focus on other than Bonasa U.
An example would be the Golden-Winged Warbler Initiative.

Actually, I reckon that there is neither the willing saws, timber market nor the mill capacity to offset the declining percentage of early successional on State and Federal and to carry it into a healthy percentage.
That might change as lightning strikes the oddest places but the cycle of business, markets and not-in-my-backyard are most strongly at play.
Best to hope for two things....a degree of timber harvest on Private acreage and if one has Corporate acreage available in the form of Coal or Timberlands, which creates ES as a factor in doing business, that any long-held Public access to that acreage remains open and not lost to Leasing for Deer and Turkey.
However, re Timberlands, Tigs or Timos or whatever is popular now is another hurdle there.

Best bet for many Grousehunters?...... consider the negative impact on the ruffed grouse you have at certain times and then, buy a road atlas.
Or, simply convince yourself that a handful of birds seen in a day or new pockets of birds found in a season represents far more than it does and that less, is enough.

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Re: Appalachian Grouse

Post by Wildirishman64 » Mon Dec 30, 2013 12:38 pm

I'm hunting in Jackson County in the Danial Boone and Mill Creek WMA. Birds are scarce to say the least. The woods I'm hunting are clearcut and about 10-15 years old. I work my GSP in thickets and find more rabbits than birds. I wish there would be more selective logging to be honest. I heard the hunting is descent in the morehead area due to last years tornado but not interested in climbing over deadfall with a loaded weapon lol.
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Re: Appalachian Grouse

Post by volraider » Mon Dec 30, 2013 3:57 pm

3.5 hours today moved 3 birds. 6 miles walked and dog covered 18 miles and avg 5.7 mph. Man, I Iike my garmin.

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Wildirishman64
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Appalachian Grouse

Post by Wildirishman64 » Tue Dec 31, 2013 4:45 pm

I'm going in the morning with my GSP, should be nice and cold tonight. Maybe catch a bird off guard
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rschmeider
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Re: Appalachian Grouse

Post by rschmeider » Wed Jan 01, 2014 8:58 am

volraider wrote:3.5 hours today moved 3 birds. 6 miles walked and dog covered 18 miles and avg 5.7 mph. Man, I Iike my garmin.
+1 ..It makes a birddog and the way we run dogs..I don't even run bells or beepers any more...Dog gets in with more bird contact.
I can tell if he is breaking , pushing and not honoring. ect.

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Re: Appalachian Grouse

Post by Ssmiddy » Fri Jan 10, 2014 11:06 am

Starting my hunting season now that TN deer season is over. Anyone hunted in the Anderson, Campbell,Scott co region this year? Has been very slow the last few years...

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Re: Appalachian Grouse

Post by Ssmiddy » Fri Jan 10, 2014 8:48 pm

Have not been out yet, didn't want to disturb the deer hunters! Anyone been out to east tn yet?

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Re: Appalachian Grouse

Post by ridgerunner » Thu Jan 16, 2014 6:47 am

Hey Ssmiddy, what kind of dog do you have?

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