Open/Am. NSTRA stakes

DGFavor · Post by **DGFavor** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 7:53 pm

I just caught up on a thread and saw it's locked - you fellars play nice. I'm curioushow a stake is called "open/amateur". In the dog games I occasionally play, the Am and Open stakes are separate although Ams. can play in both. I get the impression from the open/am designation these dogs are all competing together?? And somehow a dog wins Am. pts. and another dog the open pts.??? Or is there an Am. competition going on over on one course (are they courses or just fields?) and the open competition going on another course?? The "open/am" designation just seems weird!

Sonny Hawkins · Post by **Sonny Hawkins** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 8:07 pm

Hey DG favor, My first queston is, are you a member of NSTRA? After answering that question , then maybe I can help.--------SONNY

DGFavor · Post by **DGFavor** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 8:18 pm

No, I'm really not interested in participating in NSTRA personally but I don't mind hearing how it works. Seemed like sort of a paradox - the "open/am" designation - and it seemed from the previous discussion the dogs all ran at the same time...quite a bit different than the open and am. competitions I'm familiar with.

I'm getting the impression it's going to require me learning the super secret NSTRA handshake or something to learn more though!!

Post by **pear** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 8:23 pm

Sonny Hawkins wrote:Hey DG favor, My first queston is, are you a member of NSTRA? After answering that question , then maybe I can help.--------SONNY

Sonny I'm real sorry Sir but I don't think Doug or anybody else here needs to be or has to be a NSTRA member to ask a question or get an answer. I really think you need to re-think your responses, as some, myself included aren't impressed......."pear"

Doug I too was a little confused as to the format. I went back and reread some of the posts and was unable in my quick scan to find the "open/amateur" reference, if that is the true reference then I am really confused too. However I was able to find the write-up or rule if you wish for the NSTRA Amateur Field Trial. Seems what I read is not a new thing to NSTRA (I think I participated in one several years ago here locally), but the awarding of a championship status is what appears new to me. The jest of the Amateur Trail is to allow new trailers and young dogs to participate and obtain a "CH" without having to compete against the more seasoned handlers and dogs. It looks like an attempt to simply entice the new enthusiast to the game without running them off because they can't compete with the multiple time champions. Personally I think it's a great idea and feel it will do just what it appears to be trying to do and that is promote sportsmanship and comrodery (sp) in the field. As non-member I feel it's a great thing and may even make a stab at it myself....."pear"

Post by **pear** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 8:31 pm

Here is the link to what I found. I would have simply cut and pasted the info but not sure if the NSTRA pages are copyright protected..... Maybe I'm reading it wrong but I truly feel it's a great thing to get the "novice" started......

Link: http://www.nstra.org/field_trial_formats.htm

DGFavor · Post by **DGFavor** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 8:45 pm

I still don't understand the actual mechanics, boots on the ground, how it physically goes down part. For some reason I've got in my mind that all the dogs, open and am., are competing together but in the end, somehow a dog gets am. pts. and another gets open pts.????

Yah, I'm with you, anything to increase people's enjoyment of their dogs is a good thing for dog and man/woman. I'm not quite sure I agree with the "every dog gets a ribbon" approach to competition but if people understand what the titles are, how they are earned, etc. then they can attach their own significance. That's what I'm sort of trying to figure out with this deal.

I read through the links and I still can't find an "open/am" trial format. Folks on here refer to "open/am" like it's an individual stake...is it actually two stakes?

Sonny Hawkins · Post by **Sonny Hawkins** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 8:58 pm

To all about open amt trials, I got my self in this mess of trying to explain the rules about open amt. I1ll make onemore stab at it. All past amt rules are history. The new rules for open amt were born five or six months ago. The open amt format trial consist of 24 open dogs running against each other for open pts. After thoes dogs compete and the winners are selected the amt dog trial begins. The amt part has 8 amt dogs, which compete against each other. When a amt dog gets 18 pts. 9 of thoes pts has to be first places then he is a amt champ and has to move on to open trials only. My brag was that my dog was the first amt to do this. I have explained this to you the best I can.-------SONNY Ps. The reason you cant find the rules in black and white is that the end results for the format are still in the making. The only ones that know the present rules are the active members that take part in the trials. The final format for open amt NSTRA rules will be posted soon Rember this a new format and its takes time to get it perfect.----SONNY

DGFavor · Post by **DGFavor** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 9:52 pm

OK, thanks, now I get it. So they do run separate which makes better sense to me!!

Is there a reason why there are just not amateur stakes with a full compliment of 24 or 32 amateur dogs or however many can run in a weekend? Just not enough dogs??

Sonny Hawkins · Post by **Sonny Hawkins** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 10:06 pm

Hey DGfavor, THANKS FOR YOUR REPLY. Yes this is all new thing to us here at NSTRA. When it is all done with it will be GREAT. Thanks for your understanding. BIRD DOG FRIEND------SONNY PS No special hand shakes just a real live BIRD HUNTING TRIAL.---SONNY www.nstra.org

snips · Post by **snips** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 10:45 pm

I been in NSTRA for yrs and still don't get it. I am for anything that gets newbies involved, but when I started I had to get 'er done against mutiple Ch's, and would just as soon do that now. But, it really is not fair for young dogs starting to have to handle the old campaigners, I guess I just wish they had come out with all this a long time ago. I will still be runnin my young dogs in the open, I have just learned to prepare well.

Post by **pear** » Fri Mar 02, 2007 3:27 am

Thanks Sonny it makes better sense now. Like I said I think NSTRA is making an attempt to make the novice feel as if they can compete. Good idea on the organizations part I'd say... Thanks again "pear"

Sonny Hawkins · Post by **Sonny Hawkins** » Fri Mar 02, 2007 7:22 am

HEY, dOUG AND PEAR. when I ASK THE OUESTION about are you a member, I didn!t mean it to sound the way you took it. I was just wanting to know if you had any knowledge about NSTRA before I started trying to tell you about the rules. My Fault.--------SONNY

TAK · Post by **TAK** » Fri Mar 02, 2007 11:09 pm

snips wrote:I been in NSTRA for yrs and still don't get it. I am for anything that gets newbies involved, but when I started I had to get 'er done against mutiple Ch's, and would just as soon do that now. But, it really is not fair for young dogs starting to have to handle the old campaigners, I guess I just wish they had come out with all this a long time ago. I will still be runnin my young dogs in the open, I have just learned to prepare well.

I'm with you on this. I do however see it can help a little bit. I like to see the strong dogs compete against other strong dogs and this cuts down the chance of drawing a young dog and clearing a field before the pup relizes they are to be finding birds........

PntrRookie · Post by **PntrRookie** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 10:51 am

I applaud NSTRA's efforts to try something to encourage new members. This will help but is not a savior. I just spoke with a new member who, like Snips would rather run against the experienced dogs and cut his teeth against the best. He stated..."It matters more to me how I am treated by the membership when I am not running on whether I will come back. I know I am going get beat a lot, but that is part of learning." So I really feel we need to have an Am. division option, but we need to make it a personal, fun weekend for these new members.

Remember, the Am/Open divisions are for the dogs NOT members. I can run my new pup in the Am division, even though I have run NSTRA for eight years and have a champion dog at home ready for retirement.

Sonny Hawkins · Post by **Sonny Hawkins** » Sun Mar 04, 2007 12:52 pm

Hey, Every other type of trialing has a AMT DIV, At the present time NSTRA doesnot have enough AMT dogs to have an large scale trial now. This is just a building block and mayby the first stages of something good for the ORG. So after saying that, if your a NSTRA member, Lets support the ORG. I think after all the ground work is layed, every member will have the final VOTE. You know the saying is CHANGE IS GOOD. --------SONNY

TAK · Post by **TAK** » Sun Mar 04, 2007 9:32 pm

I think it will stick and should stick. However I think it should be limited on handlers also....
Reasoning Y is I believe a % is also on the handler of the dog(s). My understanding is that this is a way to get new members and less experiance dogs to the trial and get a taste of the fun! I hope some of the more experiance handlers see this as a way to keep there sport strong and allow these slot filled up with the new folks.

Post by **ezzy333** » Sun Mar 04, 2007 9:38 pm

My understanding is that the amatuer status if directed at the dog and not the handler. Other venues such as trials the amatuer status is directed at the handler. Should these be combined in some manner to make it fair and keep it strictly amatuer?

Ezzy

TAK · Post by **TAK** » Sun Mar 04, 2007 10:51 pm

ezzy333 wrote:My understanding is that the amatuer status if directed at the dog and not the handler. Other venues such as trials the amatuer status is directed at the handler. Should these be combined in some manner to make it fair and keep it strictly amatuer?

Ezzy

I understand what you are saying, but my point is to keep the limited slots open to the new folks coming to the game. Kinda level the playing field for the first little while. No one wants to go out and run a dog and get beat badly and get a bad taste in there mouth.
I know that I would not run a dog in it. I do have a dog that I just started trialing. Can he win? Ya! Has he? No! To be honest with what performace he has done in the Open he would not place in the Am either!