Who is the best all age handler in the country???

Razor · Post by **Razor** » Sat Aug 11, 2007 2:09 pm

This is an honest question. Who do you guys think is?? If someone were looking to place an all age GSP, who would you send it to??

WildRose · Post by **WildRose** » Sat Aug 11, 2007 2:32 pm

Any of these three in no particular order. Bryan Long, Eldon Hongo, Jim West. I'm going to be running some AA dogs this year of my own and I've learned a great deal from all three of these guys. CR

Don · Post by **Don** » Sat Aug 11, 2007 3:00 pm

Razor you live in Utah. There's no doubt who I'd send it to. One of two. R.J. Marquart (Quicksilver Kennels) in Moses Lake, Wash or Dan Hoke (Dunfur Kennels) just W. of Spokane, Wash. If Mike McGinnis (MRK Kennels)were still in it I'd throw him in there too but I heard he quit. Last I heard he was some where around Baker, Ore.

Rodger · Post by **Rodger** » Sat Aug 11, 2007 4:24 pm

Whos the best? Well of course I'm bias, but for good reason.

Lots of different pros win at NSGPA Championships, but how many dogs are entered in those? How about AKC AA trials? On average about 8 - 10? For me at least, the best measure of success is determined at the GSPCA Nationals where you'll find the majority of all trainers competing and over 40 of the best dogs in the country entered. Here are the winning handlers for the past 12 years.

GSPCA National All Age Championship Winning Handlers

2006 - J. Hanzel
2005 - K. Gulledge (1st, 2nd & 3rd)
2004 - D. Hoke
2003 - K. Gulledge
2002 - K. Gulledge
2001 - G. Newcomb
2000 - D.King
1999 - K. Gulledge
1998 - B. Deitering
1997 - K. Gulledge
1996 - R. Schietel
1995 - K. Gulledge

Rodger

DGFavor · Post by **DGFavor** » Sat Aug 11, 2007 4:49 pm

You Utah fellars and your "AA" dogs!

Honest question, and you should ask yourself this before you're disappointed with what returns from the trainer/handler - why do you consider your dog an AA prospect? I ask because, as you may know, I'm pretty familiar with the Utah crowd and know that most of their "AA" dogs are nice gundogs when they get trained up.

Irregardless the names mentioned above are all great. If you really have a good AA dog out in this country, Richie Robertson would be a great one also.

Yah, Mike is in Baker. Still runs a dog now and then at the Boise or Sunnyside trials. Would do a great job of getting your dog ready to hunt/compete but probably wouldn't go out on the road with it like he used to.

Terry · Post by **Terry** » Sat Aug 11, 2007 6:52 pm

I had my labs with RJ Marquart for a couple months - Quicksilver Kennels - I was pretty happy with them but I wish I would have had them there sooner.

Don · Post by **Don** » Sat Aug 11, 2007 7:26 pm

Hey Doug,

Do you know why Mike gave it up? I've met him a few times and watched his dogs a number of times. I love what that guy does with a dog.

pttrrff · Post by **pttrrff** » Sat Aug 11, 2007 8:13 pm

I think NGSPA is the premiere Championship. Of all the Shorthair Nationals, NGSPA, NGPDA, and GSPCA, John Steger has more wins than anyone and he doesn't run at Eureka. His past record is pretty impressive.

stonegripper · Post by **stonegripper** » Sun Aug 12, 2007 1:08 am

Good point, Mike.

According to www.ngspa.org

John Steger has won the NGSPA National Championship nine times in the last 25 years...three years 1983, 1984, & 1988 the title was withheld.

The following were all handled by Steger:

1982, 1985, 1986, 1987 National Champion Luckenwildes Thunder

1990 NGSPA National Champion Sanjo Sin City Slicker

1992 NSGPA National Champion Flash Dance Ginny

1995 NGSPA National Champion Krabby Kreek's Grand Illusion

1998 NGSPA National Champion Windrow's Saddle Shoes

2000 NGSPA National Champion Jim Kath's Sin City Siren

John Steger also handled the 1989 RU NGSPA National Champ: Highwater Raisen River

Very impressive indeed!

Two others have multiple wins:

John Rabidou: 1993, 1994, 2001, & 2005 (RU Champs in 1990, 1992, 1995)

Keith Gulledge: 1996, 1997, 1999 (RU Champs in 1998, 2000, 2003)

These three gentlemen have won the National Championship 17 of the last 25 years...again, three years the title was withheld...and took RU Champion 7 out of 25.

stonegripper · Post by **stonegripper** » Sun Aug 12, 2007 1:31 am

Steger, Rabidou and Gulledge have won 16 (versus 17, as previously posted) of the last 25 NGSPA National Championships.

Post by **ezzy333** » Sun Aug 12, 2007 7:15 am

Let me throw another equation into the discussion. Does more wins translate into better trainer or might it be that after you were lucky to win one or two you got more and possibly better dogs to work with. It would be like now, if I was looking for a GSP handler and didn't know where to go I would see the list we have and probably go to one of them when in reality there may be someone just as good living next door.

Reputation may be more important than ability I think so how do you know?

Ezzy

stonegripper · Post by **stonegripper** » Sun Aug 12, 2007 7:30 am

I think maybe reputation could be a perception here...

Steger won 9 National Championships in 25 years. Three of those years, no champion was named. Seems like he might be more inclined to win than others.

However, you make a good point. Handlers (and dogs) have changed over the last 25 years. Could the guy next door win at Booneville? Yes, he could and he has. Just keep in mind people like Steger, Rabidou, and Gulledge seem to do it very well. They tend to have the dogs (same dogs) and owners who support them...which leads to reputation, which could maybe lead to wins.

Having said all the above, I think all three of these trainers are the real deal. Nobody is giving them anything...especially at Boonville. It takes a lot of effort for a trainer/handler and owner to keep coming back year after year and compete...let alone win, which they have all done.

Razor · Post by **Razor** » Sun Aug 12, 2007 9:10 am

Favor I thought that pretty nice meat dog of yours came out of Utah?

Don · Post by **Don** » Sun Aug 12, 2007 9:45 am

With the three trainers mentioned, and I don't mean to take anything away from them, how many dogs did they have entered in the stake when they won? The more good dogs you have entered, the better your chances of winning.

I know a famous Britt pro that used to load the AA stakes in every trial he went to, ran a dog in every brace every time. That made his odds of winning 50%. That wasn't why he did it tho. He did it to make sure every trial he ran in had major points. He admitted to me that most the dogs he ran shouldn't be there but then you never knew when a bad dog would have a good day. He looked good as he was always in the winners circle!

DGFavor · Post by **DGFavor** » Sun Aug 12, 2007 4:06 pm

Favor I thought that pretty nice meat dog of yours came out of Utah?

Oh yah...he's not an AA dog though - I just use an AA scout!

Razor · Post by **Razor** » Sun Aug 12, 2007 8:05 pm

You have seen my dog run old boy. He is barely a gun dog. George told me to never put him in a gun dog stake again. Your buddy Hoke told me the same thing. What is up with the VT hats that boy always wears???

DGFavor · Post by **DGFavor** » Sun Aug 12, 2007 10:28 pm

VT - Virginia Tech "Hokeys"

Bring that bad boy up here and we'll roll him out thru some big country with some sharpies at the end of those casts - we'll be the best AA handlers (in our own minds!)

Razor · Post by **Razor** » Sun Aug 12, 2007 10:31 pm

I had the Virgina Tech part figured out. He must just be a big fan. Very nice guy. I remember the first time I handled a dog I was braced against him. I was pretty nervous. He actually helped me alot.

Don · Post by **Don** » Sun Aug 12, 2007 10:36 pm

Dan and RJ both are two of the nicest guys you'll ever meet.

DGFavor · Post by **DGFavor** » Sun Aug 12, 2007 10:40 pm

It is a little nerve racking being braced with a professional not because the dog's are intimidating but because I feel like I'm potentially interfering with their job or livelihood wandering around out there without a clue. What other venue is there where a complete Am. steps in and competes with you at your job?

Razor · Post by **Razor** » Sun Aug 12, 2007 10:40 pm

I will agree with that. Eldon is also an amazing person. He has helped me understand the game better than anyone. Those are really the only three that I know.

TrueBlu Shorthairs · Post by **TrueBlu Shorthairs** » Mon Aug 13, 2007 7:14 am

Since the question is who is the BEST All Age HANDLER, I have to consider who is the best today, not 25 years ago, not who might be if all the start lined up, on and on...no question, period...Keith Gulldedge. Best handler is based on training and handling at events, showing dogs correctly, riding properly, and yes, having a great Scout, combine Rob and Keith and there's no one close.

WildRose · Post by **WildRose** » Mon Aug 13, 2007 11:25 am

DGFavor wrote:It is a little nerve racking being braced with a professional not because the dog's are intimidating but because I feel like I'm potentially interfering with their job or livelihood wandering around out there without a clue. What other venue is there where a complete Am. steps in and competes with you at your job?

At my very first trial in the spring of 05 at the Ozark club my first three brace mates were Keith Gullege, Bryan Long, and Dennis Brath. Talk about intimidating for a newbie! CR

CherrystoneWeims · Post by **CherrystoneWeims** » Mon Aug 13, 2007 12:32 pm

I've actually found many of the pros to be quite nice and at times helpful.
Brenda (snips) actually gave me a couple of good tips when I ran in a test with her a few years back.

One thing that I think has helped me quite a bit in handling for FT's is running my dogs in hunt tests. I started running in trials when I was running my dog in Master Hunter.

Since the tests are not competitive it is a great learning experience for moving on to trialing. It will also give you a good set of standards to compare your dog against instead of just going into trialing which can be very political and subjective. But you better have your dog prepared to run in that next level of testing! There is nothing more frustrating than being braced with a dog who interferes with it's bracemate. I've had it happen to me when I've been braced with a move up from Junior.

I've gotten so that I am not intimidated by the pros. Heck I have seen their dogs mess up too. I know that my dog is very reliable and we work well as a team. When I run my dogs in NBHA trials it is usually in Open stakes. This past winter I was the only amateur and the ONLY woman running in Open Shooting Dog in my area.

I look at it this way. If my dog screws up it isn't the end of the world. It isn't a life or death deal. There are a LOT more important things in life.

BTW for handlers I look at the care that is given to the dogs. A handler is only worth their salt if the health and welfare of the dog is the utmost importance to them. I watched Diane Vater pull a young dog in OGD this past spring. The bracemate kept wanting to attack the dog that she was running. (stupid amateur owner/handler is clueless and blames the bracemate. also stupid judges keep allowing it to happen) Diane picked up her dog and I respect her very much for that.

Pam