Jackson Hole, WY

mtlee · Post by **mtlee** » Mon Jun 18, 2007 10:19 am

I was reading the "Summer Camp" thread and got to thinking....I am going out to Jackson Hole for about a week or week and 1/2 at the end of July to see a buddy of mine that is working out there. Does anyone know if there are any birds around that area? If so, what are the legalities of walking around with your dog on public land? It would be great to put her on some wild birds up there if I had a chance. Thanks.

Wagonmaster · Post by **Wagonmaster** » Mon Jun 18, 2007 10:37 am

You should access their DNR website and find out what the law is on dog training. It varies from state to state, but in most places it is not legal to train on public land (put your dog on some wild birds), until after a date that could by July 15, or Aug. 1, or even in some states Sept. 1. In some states it is also not legal to train on state WMA's at all until the hunting season is open.

mtlee · Post by **mtlee** » Mon Jun 18, 2007 10:45 am

Wagonmaster wrote:You should access their DNR website and find out what the law is on dog training. It varies from state to state, but in most places it is not legal to train on public land (put your dog on some wild birds), until after a date that could by July 15, or Aug. 1, or even in some states Sept. 1. In some states it is also not legal to train on state WMA's at all until the hunting season is open.

Thanks, I've been trying to find something about bird dog training on their site, but haven't had any luck. I may just have to call them.

mtlee · Post by **mtlee** » Mon Jun 18, 2007 12:48 pm

Idaho isn't that far from Jackson...anybody familiar with SE Idaho?

gonehuntin' · Post by **gonehuntin'** » Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:11 pm

In Jackson Hole, 98 1/2% of the land is federally and state owned. As I remember, the only plentiful game birds are grouse in the mountains. Dropping into Idaho, you'll find Pheasant but all on private lands. As I remember it from being a trainer there, they don't regulate you on running your dog on birds but I could be wrong on that or it may have changed over the years. I'd take a fly rod.

RSNK61 · Post by **RSNK61** » Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:49 pm

Most of the pheasant in SE idaho would be private property. There are chukar and huns in the area but may be a couple hours from Jackson. There are a couple of guys in SE Idaho on this site. DGfavor for one they may be able to tell you more. I second the taking the flyrod. Some of the best flyfishing in the country.

mtlee · Post by **mtlee** » Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:58 pm

Thanks for info...I have already been told to not forget the fishing gear. I've got a fly rod, but I'm not so graceful with it...I'll be sure to bring the light weight spinning gear along as back up! I'm pretty excited about going out there, my buddy is a white water rafting guide...should be a blast. It would be nice to find some wild birds, who knows when the next time I'll go out west will be??

zdiddy · Post by **zdiddy** » Mon Jun 18, 2007 4:20 pm

se idaho has a few places to train n ot sure about number of birds as its been a while since i lived there, but all around chesterfield resorvoir in lava hot springs has great bird habitat. and the fishing is way better there to

DGFavor · Post by **DGFavor** » Mon Jun 18, 2007 4:32 pm

We sold a pup to a doc in Jackson and he mentions quite a few forest grouse - says his pup has been pointing them real good so I guess they must be there. I'd have to think you'd be able to get your dog into some of those without too much trouble. I'm a couple hours away from Jackson and we have a few birds around here.

LookoutDog · Post by **LookoutDog** » Mon Jun 18, 2007 9:27 pm

I have never bird hunted in Wy or Id but my concern would be snakes during the summer months. Perhaps the rattlers are not indigenous to those areas but I would check.

gonehuntin' · Post by **gonehuntin'** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 4:25 am

Stay in the High Country and work grouse near water; you'll never see a snake. Growing season's too short for them. I have never seen a rattler in Jackson (lived there for years) but there sure are south of there. Same in Idaho; I trained and hunted in a good portion of that state and never ran into one. Craters of the Moon looked like a likely area though.

Wagonmaster · Post by **Wagonmaster** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 7:39 am

mtlee, you also need to get with someone local and find out about the snakes. they are where they are and they aren't where they aren't. one place will be crawling with them and the next one won't. if you just go out and drop your dog down someplace, you might be where they are, which would be bad. you would rather be where they aren't, which would be good.

mtlee · Post by **mtlee** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 11:01 am

gonehuntin' wrote:Stay in the High Country and work grouse near water; you'll never see a snake. Growing season's too short for them. I have never seen a rattler in Jackson (lived there for years) but there sure are south of there. Same in Idaho; I trained and hunted in a good portion of that state and never ran into one. Craters of the Moon looked like a likely area though.

Is "High Country" an actual place or are you just saying stay at higher elevations? I know nothing about the area. My buddy guides on the Snake River..thats about the extent of my knowledge about the area. He should know where areas are though, so any other suggestions just let me know. I'll get in touch with him soon.

Yawallac · Post by **Yawallac** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 11:18 am

Hey Matt,

Be careful!! I had some college buddies that went out west to visit ...and NEVER CAME BACK!! They became ski bums and white water raft guides!! Sounds eerily familiar!

It's beautiful out there!

Wagonmaster · Post by **Wagonmaster** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 11:19 am

High country is higher elevation, but that is what I mean, if you are not from there don't assume. If you go up high enough to be in the aspens and willows, where you will find blues, you will probably not run into snakes. Anywhere you are around sharptails, huns, or prairie chickens, you probably will find snakes.

My trainer trained in a place near Cheyenne, WY, but no wild birds, so he found a ranch at elevation, a little cooler. There he found snakes too. Not alot, but snakes.

Know the country, that is the important thing. They are where they are and they aren't where they aren't.

mtlee · Post by **mtlee** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 12:13 pm

Yawallac wrote:Hey Matt,

Be careful!! I had some college buddies that went out west to visit ...and NEVER CAME BACK!! They became ski bums and white water raft guides!! Sounds eerily familiar!

It's beautiful out there!

That does sound familiar...that's exactly what my buddy is doing...white water in the summer and ski instructor in the winter. Dont worry though, I don't have that option---tied down with school :roll: I'm looking forward to the trip though.

gonehuntin' · Post by **gonehuntin'** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 4:22 pm

Wagonmaster; even the valley in Jackson is over 5000'. It is only snow free form April to Oct. It snows occasionally in june or later, then starts as early as sept. There are no rattlers in Jackson. Cheyenne, yes and the red desert. Jackson is just too high. They'd get nosebleeds. I lived there for 10 years and the only snake I ever saw, was one lonely garter snake.

Wagonmaster · Post by **Wagonmaster** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 4:31 pm

See, that's the deal. Cheyenne is 6,000. I spent a summer on the desert was of Albuquerque and there were snakes all over when it rained. That is a little over 5,000. Elevation does not help you, temperature drop with increasing elevation does, terrain does.

Not looking to get into and argument about where they are and where they aren't especially with someone who knows the area. Just know a couple of people who thought summer training on wild birds would be fun, they went for it, and their dogs got bit cause they were in the wrong place. I am a flatlander partly for that reason. No snakes at all east of the Mo. in ND.

You should be his guide.

gonehuntin' · Post by **gonehuntin'** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 5:44 pm

Wagonmaster, is that same statement true of SD as far as snakes go? The reason you see snakes around Cheyenne and in general MOST of S, Central, and E Wyol. is that although it's high, they don't get the snow the mts. get. Jackson get 250-400 inches per year. Takes a long time for all that white stuff to melt. Gets cold to. It'd hit 40-60 below in the winters there. I worked as a carpenter in Laramie and never saw much snow or anywhere near that cold. Now wind, that's another matter.

mtlee · Post by **mtlee** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 5:56 pm

Ok, so is the general consensus that Jackson doesn't have snakes, but also doesn't have many birds?

Wagonmaster · Post by **Wagonmaster** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:15 pm

The Missouri seems to be the break. I have been out to SD pheasant hunting, right near the Mo., and there is quite a difference in terrain and vegetation from one side of the river to the other. Prairie on one side, grass and forbs, and platte land on the other, juniper etc.

It is of course not true that there are no snakes east of the Mo., we even have them in a handful of places in Minn., but way less.

I am no snake expert gonehuntin', but it is hard to make generalizations about the dang things. As for the snow thing, we used to hunt up in AB near Empress, gets pretty cold and snowy up there, it is far enough north that winter comes early and spring comes late, but it is typical western platte land. We went up one year in Sept., no snakes at all. We went the next year, it was hot, and they were all over. We saw a den area with thousands and I have a picture on my office wall of a ball in that area, about 30 in a group the size of a basketball. Snow or lack of it is no help, they have snow in Abq., and all the way up from there.

One thing we noticed that summer I spent west of Abq. was during the heat of the summer we saw few snakes during the day, but at night it was like nightcrawlers on a lawn if you drove across the desert. Later in the summer we got four days of rain and then there were snakes everywhere, must have been flooded out of their holes.

They are also common around dog towns (prairie dogs). They use the holes for shelter and the dogs for food.

All I know, being a flatlander at heart, is to ask the locals. They are where they are.

gonehuntin' · Post by **gonehuntin'** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 4:54 am

Thanks John, I an NOT a lover of snakes!! I was in a fly shop in the Twin Cities one time (Thorne Brothers) and they had pictures of 48"+ Timber rattles their guides had been catching along one of the rivers there. Glad they posted the river so I don't have to now fish it.!

gonehuntin' · Post by **gonehuntin'** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 4:59 am

mtlee wrote:Ok, so is the general consensus that Jackson doesn't have snakes, but also doesn't have many birds?

The only birds in Jackson are Grouse. Drop 80 miles south (Pinedale) you'll start to run into chicken (and snakes). Head W to Idaho and you'll find chukar and grouse. Hunt the river cliffs over the South Fork and the area around Palisades or Spencer for grouse. Not great training country unless you have your own birds.

mtlee · Post by **mtlee** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 7:21 am

gonehuntin' wrote:
mtlee wrote:Ok, so is the general consensus that Jackson doesn't have snakes, but also doesn't have many birds?
The only birds in Jackson are Grouse. Drop 80 miles south (Pinedale) you'll start to run into chicken (and snakes). Head W to Idaho and you'll find chukar and grouse. Hunt the river cliffs over the South Fork and the area around Palisades or Spencer for grouse. Not great training country unless you have your own birds.

Thanks, I probably won't take her with me....sounds like its not really worth it. Some friends and I are driving out there (34 hours) and staying in a cramped apartment with my buddy. I would take her if it would be a good opportunity to expose her to some wild birds, but its not sounding like that is the case. Maybe I can head out west over Christmas break?? Thanks for the help.

RSNK61 · Post by **RSNK61** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 7:28 am

You will have plenty of things to do. Yellowstone is just around the corner and you have to do the whitewater trip. If your buddy can help you out with a guided fishing trip down the southfork that is a great trip.

huntoverlabs · Post by **huntoverlabs** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 6:04 pm

Well I lived in north Central WY for years and also have to agree. No worries on snakes in Jackson. Now I lived on the bighorn Mts. and we had rattlers from the low desert to about half way up the mtn. where the snow line was. You would find them alot near water. Plenty of sage grouse but that's about it @ jackson. The further east you go you may be able to get into pheasant in some of the lower farm fields--look along grassy edges of irrigation canals. However it was my experience that the farmers/rancher were pretty protective of the pheasant. +1 on the fly rod---you won't regret it!!

blueblood · Post by **blueblood** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 8:57 pm

Hello everyone. You guys are talking about my stomping grounds. I live in south eastern Idaho and work in Jackson as an estimator and project engineer. All my time is spent in those mountains training and hunting. There are plenty of birds if you like to hike the mountains. The general rules of dog training are if you use propigated birds you must have a permit. If you are hikeing and come across wild birds, great, just don't shoot them. I spend alot of time hikeing around and searching for grouse. You will get your dog into birds around Jackson and anywhere within a 45 minute drive. Relax, bring the dog and enjoy the mountians. Jackson is one of the most dog friendly places on earth.

crittercontrol · Post by **crittercontrol** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 10:37 pm

Dude, don't forget the Million Dollar Saloon!

You'll thank me in the morning (or you'll be cussin' me!

)

gonehuntin' · Post by **gonehuntin'** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 4:57 am

crittercontrol wrote:Dude, don't forget the Million Dollar Saloon!

You'll thank me in the morning (or you'll be cussin' me! )

Is that the old Silver Dollar Bar??