Am I Stressing Too Much?

[Ontariofella]

First and foremost, I wanna thank everyone who has answered my questions here on this site. Been a huge help to a rookie with no experience, and I feel bad that I haven't really been able to contribute to answering others questions, but someday I'll have the experience to pass on the knowledge.

Getting to my topic. My GSP is about 16 months now and we're in the middle of our first full hunting season. I told myself going into this season that I would only be shooting birds that she points, so I could help reinforce that behavior. At this point she has seen hundreds of ruffed grouse, but pretty much always flushes them. We've been hunting at least 4 times a week for the past month and so far there has only been 2 opportunities where I've been able to shoot at a bird, and I don't think I've seen a point from her in weeks now. She runs so fast through the woods that I feel she flushes birds before she even knows they are there. The only way for her to somewhat hold any kind of point is if the bird is holding in very thick grass/brush where she can't see it.

Is this par for the course or should she be getting it a bit better by now? Am I expecting too much from a young dog? I'd feel a bit better if she had some sort of hesitation towards the bird, but she pretty much charges as soon as she sees it. It's just a bit discouraging because I feel like she was pointing better at 4 months old than she is now. Haven't fired my gun in the past couple weeks and I'm just wondering if I should be doing something different or if this is even beneficial for her.

Thanks in advance.

[RayGubernat]

Ontariofella -

The short answer is Yes you are expecting a lot from a very young dog. From your descriptions, it would seem that she is a lot of dog, and that kind of dog is going to push the envelope. The good news is that once she figures it out...you will have one heck of a hunting partner.

My only suggestion would be to run her first in a birdless area for about an hour, to burn off some of that adolescent energy. THEN take her hunting. What you are experiencing is not uncommon when training hard charging dogs on wild birds. You cannot effectively control the situation because it is wild birds and they call the tune. The dog has to figure it out...and that takes time and bird contacts.

Patience...persistence...insistence. Easier said than done, but that is the ticket. My first dog busted birds for almost two seasons before he figured out that the only way he got to get feathers in his mouth was to let me shoot. I hunted that dog pretty much all day , every time out, until he was 12 and off and on until he was 15. It drove me nuts to watch him bust birds for so long...but it was worth the wait. Yours will be too.

RayG

[NEhomer]

Did the pup get any training with a check cord and release traps when she was younger?

[jmez]

Is the dog whoa broke?

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[gonehuntin']

You have to also realize that there is no tougher bird to TRAIN a dog on than grouse. Why? Because the dog is out of your view most of the time and you have no idea if it's working a bird or running wild.

That's why you should always start with planted birds, birds in electronic traps. that way you have total control of the bird and the situation. Even though you dog is a pointing breed, you have to realize that some dog's have less pointing instinct than others. Some are totally having romping through the fields of life merrily flushing every bird they encounter. Those animals require training and yes, pressure, to start them pointing.

Have you ever worked her on planted birds?

[Ontariofella]

My only suggestion would be to run her first in a birdless area for about an hour, to burn off some of that adolescent energy. THEN take her hunting. What you are experiencing is not uncommon when training hard charging dogs on wild birds. You cannot effectively control the situation because it is wild birds and they call the tune. The dog has to figure it out...and that takes time and bird contacts.

I will try running her beforehand. I actually noticed she gets slightly better after an hour or two of hunting because she starts to slow down a little bit. Doesn't slow down much, but a little bit lol

[Ontariofella]

Did the pup get any training with a check cord and release traps when she was younger?

I was only able to do one pigeon session with her when she was about 11 months. Getting training birds in northern Ontario is not easy.

[Ontariofella]

Is the dog whoa broke?

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Her woah is strong unless she sees a bird. If the birds are holding in thick brush(not visible) then I can usually Woah her, but that situation is rare around here.

[Ontariofella]

You have to also realize that there is no tougher bird to TRAIN a dog on than grouse. Why? Because the dog is out of your view most of the time and you have no idea if it's working a bird or running wild.

That's why you should always start with planted birds, birds in electronic traps. that way you have total control of the bird and the situation. Even though you dog is a pointing breed, you have to realize that some dog's have less pointing instinct than others. Some are totally having romping through the fields of life merrily flushing every bird they encounter. Those animals require training and yes, pressure, to start them pointing.

Have you ever worked her on planted birds?

I have heard that about grouse, and I can definitely see why they are hard for dogs to learn. Shes out of sight most of the time and it's hard to know exactly what she's doing. But she lets me know every time she flushes a bird cause she lets out a big howl every time she flushes a bird hahaha

I have only had the opportunity to work with planted birds once. It's incredibly difficult to get your hands on training birds up here in Northern Ontario. No one sells any birds within an 8 hour drive of here and there's not even that many wild pigeons around to capture. There are a few though and I'm really going to try to trap some in the spring time.

[17Hunter]

Ontario,

We are living the same lives! I have a 16 month old male shorthair and a 17 month wirehair. The shorthair is a hard charging, pretty big running dog and I have heard way more Michigan grouse and woodcock than I have seen.

My wirehair hunts a little closer and not quite as spastic, haha. Monday night she actually had a great point, let me flush and it was a….rabbit. She loved it though. Dog gets way more excited over rabbits right now than she does birds.

Recent trip to North Dakota in 3 days of hunting, approximately 70 sharp tails flushed, shot 2, missed 2. And I was very, very generous with my definition of “point” on that trip. Good luck!!

[Garrison]

Actively hunting for birds, making scent, and then rooting them out Vs. running through birds without knowing they exist are two different things. Two different things that young inexperienced dogs are pretty darn adept at doing. It sounds like it might be a little bit of both? Either way, she doesn’t have them or the game figured out yet, and it is your job to help her. As Ray relayed, what you are doing, wild bird contacts, and patience is usually the recipe for success in both categories. I have never felt penalized in the long run by letting a young dog with plenty of point in its line, hunt and blow up wild birds they can’t catch. Some may disagree. I feel the ability for a young dog to learn how to locate a wild bird is more important than pointing at this age. But if the ability to find them is no longer an issue, and actively rooting them out persists, then she would probably benefit from some controlled work and being taught some manners in the off season.

Personally, I would invest in a blank pistol and turn all my attention to her in the field. Get comfortable with the fact that this, and probably a good chunk of next seasons are hers. You will have yours later. If she is out of a long line of dogs that have plenty of point, the chances of her not doing the same given some time, and the opportunity is pretty slim. A single moment of impatience for the tailgate photo now will delay the process much longer than more birds flying away.

Garrison

[slistoe]

I feel the ability for a young dog to learn how to locate wild bird is more important than pointing at this age. But if the ability to find them is no longer an issue, and actively rooting them out persists, then she would probably benefit from some controlled work and being taught some manners in the off season.

Garrison

This all day. All the pointing in the world is of no use if the dog doesn’t love finding birds and know how to do it.

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[jmez]

Is the dog whoa broke?

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Her woah is strong unless she sees a bird. If the birds are holding in thick brush(not visible) then I can usually Woah her, but that situation is rare around here.

Then she isn't whoa broke. This will be a hard fix until that is done. This is the boring part of bird dog training but also the most important. Your dog has to handle to your cues, come when called, stop and not move until you release her when told whoa. All of that on your terms not hers. Doesn't matter what else is going on.

You can order pigeons and have them shipped to you. They are tough birds so you can get a lot of use out of them. The dog would likely benefit from a lot of work on a check cord with planted birds. You can hang weights from the pigeons feet, they will still fly enough the dog can't catch them but not so far that you can't go get them. Plus the dog will be on a check cord, you can keep her from catching them.

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[Garrison]

Is the dog whoa broke?

Sent from my moto g power 5G - 2023 using Tapatalk

Her woah is strong unless she sees a bird. If the birds are holding in thick brush(not visible) then I can usually Woah her, but that situation is rare around here.

Then she isn't whoa broke. This will be a hard fix until that is done. This is the boring part of bird dog training but also the most important. Your dog has to handle to your cues, come when called, stop and not move until you release her when told whoa. All of that on your terms not hers. Doesn't matter what else is going on.

You can order pigeons and have them shipped to you. They are tough birds so you can get a lot of use out of them. The dog would likely benefit from a lot of work on a check cord with planted birds. You can hang weights from the pigeons feet, they will still fly enough the dog can't catch them but not so far that you can't go get them. Plus the dog will be on a check cord, you can keep her from catching them.

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Yes, a dog should be responsive to commands and they should be enforced when given, mine are/do. But what commands are really necessary in the field? And what commands around birds are going to do anything to make them a better bird dog? Although taught and important in many circumstances, whoa certainly doesn’t or need to be used. There is a whole school of training which doesn’t use the command at all, or until well after a dog is broke. I sure hope I never own a dog that requires a command to point a bird, or hold it staunchly. What happens when it finds game 200 yards over the next hill and you aren’t there to say the command or press the buttons?

Unfortunately the puppet master approach, all too often becomes an arm wrestling match between an inexperienced handler and an unhappy dog, resulting in a crew that most rather not spend a day afield with. You can find plenty of these inexperienced “trainers” at a local training day who are dependent on whoa, pressing buttons on dogs that are continually hacked through a field to stay within sight or worse gun range, with a dog that is constantly looking over its shoulder, all with flagging tails as soon as bird contact is made, and then of course quickly rushed in on because the dog might break.


I feel my job as trainer is to develop a dog that does its job without me needing to tell it much of anything, but let’s go and good dog, while performing without showing my fingerprints from the process. My dog doesn’t point because of any training or command I give, just as an honest dog is not made staunch because of commands. Most that are bred decently well are born with that ability, and only require us to foster that relationship between them and the bird through exposure and experience. The dog is young and figuring it out. Let it figure out whoa at the food bowl and the back door, let the birds teach it how close it can get to them in the field.

When you start to question where you should be in the process, reading through the age requirements and performance for puppy, derby and broke dog stakes is a good measuring stick for dog development.

Garrison

[pgidley]

Hey, where in Northern Ontario are you? I'm outside of Thunder Bay, Slate River area. I have no pigeons at the moment (our dog is almost 13, still hunting hard) - but I'll be getting a loft going in the spring, in anticipation of a pup. If you're in the area, I'd be happy to help you out in the spring and summer. For this season, I'd say keep running her on grouse, they'll teach more than you can hope to. One issue I found when our dog was a pup, we were living in Timmins and the birds there have a tendency to flush into a tree within sight of the dog. I feel like she didn't really start figuring them out until I found a pocket of birds that flushed extra wild, so she didn't get the thrill of barking at a perplexed grouse staring at her from 6 feet above. She was two or three when she really started to nail them, and that was after a lot of pigeons and a few weeks on the prairies. So don't stress too much at this point, as others have said. She'll figure it out!

Anyways, feel free to PM me if you're around here. Good to see other Northern Ontarians bird doggin.

[Garrison]

Ontariofella,

I just realized this may in fact be the same dog that you had previously discussed eating birds? If it is, and indeed she is actively hunting and finding birds, then rushing in to try and catch them repeatedly, you may have some issues that are beyond most armature’s ability level to fully correct, if possible. It may take a very knowledgeable trainer, and a good bit of time. Much of the normally good information about the maturation process shared in the comments may not be applicable, or a recipe for success due to the circumstances. Not catching wild birds probably won’t hurt the dog’s future chances, but it may not correct built in problems either. If you are not seeing improvement through the season, your best bet would probably be to do whatever you need to, to get her evaluated by a knowledgeable professional.

Garrison

[Ontariofella]

Hey, where in Northern Ontario are you? I'm outside of Thunder Bay, Slate River area. I have no pigeons at the moment (our dog is almost 13, still hunting hard) - but I'll be getting a loft going in the spring, in anticipation of a pup. If you're in the area, I'd be happy to help you out in the spring and summer. For this season, I'd say keep running her on grouse, they'll teach more than you can hope to. One issue I found when our dog was a pup, we were living in Timmins and the birds there have a tendency to flush into a tree within sight of the dog. I feel like she didn't really start figuring them out until I found a pocket of birds that flushed extra wild, so she didn't get the thrill of barking at a perplexed grouse staring at her from 6 feet above. She was two or three when she really started to nail them, and that was after a lot of pigeons and a few weeks on the prairies. So don't stress too much at this point, as others have said. She'll figure it out!

Anyways, feel free to PM me if you're around here. Good to see other Northern Ontarians bird doggin.

That's awesome to hear cause I'm in Thunder Bay! So far I have only met one other gundog owner in the city, and that's how I got a few pigeons that one time.
Funny you mention the birds in trees. I'd say 75% of the birds we come across end up flushing into the nearest tree and theyr almost always visible to the dog so she ends up sitting under the tree howling at them.
I appreciate that offer and I'll definitely send you a pm!

[Ontariofella]

Ontariofella,

I just realized this may in fact be the same dog that you had previously discussed eating birds? If it is, and indeed she is actively hunting and finding birds, then rushing in to try and catch them repeatedly, you may have some issues that are beyond most armature’s ability level to fully correct, if possible. It may take a very knowledgeable trainer, and a good bit of time. Much of the normally good information about the maturation process shared in the comments may not be applicable, or a recipe for success due to the circumstances. Not catching wild birds probably won’t hurt the dog’s future chances, but it may not correct built in problems either. If you are not seeing improvement through the season, your best bet would probably be to do whatever you need to, to get her evaluated by a knowledgeable professional.

Garrison

Yep it is that same pup. She has been a handful in many ways lol. That bird eating issue has actually improved quite a bit. I never ended up force fetching her, but I did alot of hold conditioning and worked with frozen birds alot. She is still very hard mouthed, but at least she isn't ripping the bird up and consuming it.

I was afraid someone would tell me this is probably beyond my capabilities as an amateur. I'd love nothing more than to work with a professional trainer but being in the location that I am, the nearest trainer is probably 6-8 hours away and in a different country. It's doable but it will take some planning. Im hoping there's a glimmer of hope for us since she has had a couple decent points at the beginning of the season when cover was thicker. Now that cover has thinned out, birds are almost always visible so it's extra tough. She also did quite well during our one and only pigeon session.

Do you think a dog catching a crippled bird on the ground could potentially make the dog chase more birds? I was just thinking, she had a decent point at the beginning of the season. I walked in and flushed the bird and ended up winging it. The bird went down but started running when it hit the ground and my pup chased it down and got it. I wonder if that potentially had an impact on her.

[Garrison]

Ontariofella,

I just realized this may in fact be the same dog that you had previously discussed eating birds? If it is, and indeed she is actively hunting and finding birds, then rushing in to try and catch them repeatedly, you may have some issues that are beyond most armature’s ability level to fully correct, if possible. It may take a very knowledgeable trainer, and a good bit of time. Much of the normally good information about the maturation process shared in the comments may not be applicable, or a recipe for success due to the circumstances. Not catching wild birds probably won’t hurt the dog’s future chances, but it may not correct built in problems either. If you are not seeing improvement through the season, your best bet would probably be to do whatever you need to, to get her evaluated by a knowledgeable professional.

Garrison

Yep it is that same pup. She has been a handful in many ways lol. That bird eating issue has actually improved quite a bit. I never ended up force fetching her, but I did alot of hold conditioning and worked with frozen birds alot. She is still very hard mouthed, but at least she isn't ripping the bird up and consuming it.

I was afraid someone would tell me this is probably beyond my capabilities as an amateur. I'd love nothing more than to work with a professional trainer but being in the location that I am, the nearest trainer is probably 6-8 hours away and in a different country. It's doable but it will take some planning. Im hoping there's a glimmer of hope for us since she has had a couple decent points at the beginning of the season when cover was thicker. Now that cover has thinned out, birds are almost always visible so it's extra tough. She also did quite well during our one and only pigeon session.

Do you think a dog catching a crippled bird on the ground could potentially make the dog chase more birds? I was just thinking, she had a decent point at the beginning of the season. I walked in and flushed the bird and ended up winging it. The bird went down but started running when it hit the ground and my pup chased it down and got it. I wonder if that potentially had an impact on her.

Unfortunately no one here can accurately tell you what is and isn’t above what you are capable of, because we don’t know you, and we haven’t watched your dog. We often jump to worst case scenarios as a cautionary tale, because we have either seen or experienced them personally. Many here have also been paid to fix them.

I can tell you one thing for sure. Although I believe I have a pretty solid understanding of bird dogs and training them. Built on lots of reading, years of personal experience, mentorship, and many hours of well spent time with the folks here. I still have solved problems and have caused problems. Anybody who has been around dogs long enough and tells you different, is full of it. Some of the best money I have ever spent was sending my dog on a truck to experience things I couldn’t provide on a daily basis. Holes are exposed and plugged because the mistakes were made on dogs of the past and the reps the dog gets and the location they are getting them we can’t normally provide.

On the bright side, your dog is young and it sounds like you are seeing small glimpses of progress. You also have the prescription for most bird dog issues at your fingertips. Time, wild birds, and enough patience to not shoot birds that aren’t handled.

I would be remiss to not mention one more very important thing you have going for you. You are not afraid to dig in and look for answers. As a teacher, I have never once had a student who I was truly worried about in my class, who had a parent who was obviously worried about being a good parent and actively searching for solutions and guidance. I have also dealt with a lot of train wrecks whose parents already had every answer.

Garrison

[cjhills]

Ontariofella:
Read Garrison's post carefully.
When I first started training my meat dogs to pass hunt test, I had some serious problems. These were guide dogs that had every kind of bird shot over them. This included accidental flushes, intentional flushes, pointed birds or anything else in range of shotgun.
I went to only shooting over solid pointed birds that they allowed me to flush. Mostly to start these were planted pigeons, preserve pheasant, chukars or quail. The dogs quickly learn that no point meant no bird.
It is nearly impossible to ruin a reasonably well bred dog's hunting ability.
If it is legal where you are, running the on wild birds, using a blank pistol, in the off season works wonders.
A solid whoa is a plus, not to get him to point, but to caution him when you go in to flush.
Approach the dog from the side, so he can see you, quietly caution him when you calmly and quietly walk in to flush.
GOOD Luck............Cj

[gonehuntin']

I know that you're trying, however this all stems, or most of it from the fact that you apparently don't have an organized training program you're following. Before you ever get a dog, you should have gotten and studied a training program and written out the sequence you would hope to proceed in..

So, here's what I'd do now. First, I'd build a bird house to hold a dozen pigeons. Don't worry about quail, they are not nearly as durable as pigeon. Then, Even if you have to travel five hours, find someone and but a dozen pigeons or chuckar. You can make your own release cages or buy a three cheap ones from Gun Dog Supply or Lion Country. You've given the dog a course in hold, and you say it has some obedience, so you're on the way.

There are three basic things every dog HAS to know to hunt: HERE, NO!, AND WHOA. If the dog is non slip on those three things it is very hunt able. He should also know that three blasts of the whistle mean HERE, and two blasts means NO!. If you want to keep him closer hunting, every time he gets a bit far out, hit him with two blasts of the whistle and command NO, HERE! Pretty soon all you'll need is two quick tweets to bring him closer.

Once you have birds, you can begin steadying him on walking birds. It is IMPOSSIBLE to make a good bird dog without birds.

That gives you kind of an idea. It's to involved to guide you step by step. A program does that. What program have you purchased to guide your training?


There was a great American retriever trainer named Charles Morgan. He had a saying that went something like this: "Training a dog is no more than replacing a more serious problem with a less serious problem until we are left with as few problems as possible".

[Ontariofella]

Ontariofella,

I just realized this may in fact be the same dog that you had previously discussed eating birds? If it is, and indeed she is actively hunting and finding birds, then rushing in to try and catch them repeatedly, you may have some issues that are beyond most armature’s ability level to fully correct, if possible. It may take a very knowledgeable trainer, and a good bit of time. Much of the normally good information about the maturation process shared in the comments may not be applicable, or a recipe for success due to the circumstances. Not catching wild birds probably won’t hurt the dog’s future chances, but it may not correct built in problems either. If you are not seeing improvement through the season, your best bet would probably be to do whatever you need to, to get her evaluated by a knowledgeable professional.

Garrison

Yep it is that same pup. She has been a handful in many ways lol. That bird eating issue has actually improved quite a bit. I never ended up force fetching her, but I did alot of hold conditioning and worked with frozen birds alot. She is still very hard mouthed, but at least she isn't ripping the bird up and consuming it.

I was afraid someone would tell me this is probably beyond my capabilities as an amateur. I'd love nothing more than to work with a professional trainer but being in the location that I am, the nearest trainer is probably 6-8 hours away and in a different country. It's doable but it will take some planning. Im hoping there's a glimmer of hope for us since she has had a couple decent points at the beginning of the season when cover was thicker. Now that cover has thinned out, birds are almost always visible so it's extra tough. She also did quite well during our one and only pigeon session.

Do you think a dog catching a crippled bird on the ground could potentially make the dog chase more birds? I was just thinking, she had a decent point at the beginning of the season. I walked in and flushed the bird and ended up winging it. The bird went down but started running when it hit the ground and my pup chased it down and got it. I wonder if that potentially had an impact on her.

Unfortunately no one here can accurately tell you what is and isn’t above what you are capable of, because we don’t know you, and we haven’t watched your dog. We often jump to worst case scenarios as a cautionary tale, because we have either seen or experienced them personally. Many here have also been paid to fix them.

I can tell you one thing for sure. Although I believe I have a pretty solid understanding of bird dogs and training them. Built on lots of reading, years of personal experience, mentorship, and many hours of well spent time with the folks here. I still have solved problems and have caused problems. Anybody who has been around dogs long enough and tells you different, is full of it. Some of the best money I have ever spent was sending my dog on a truck to experience things I couldn’t provide on a daily basis. Holes are exposed and plugged because the mistakes were made on dogs of the past and the reps the dog gets and the location they are getting them we can’t normally provide.

On the bright side, your dog is young and it sounds like you are seeing small glimpses of progress. You also have the prescription for most bird dog issues at your fingertips. Time, wild birds, and enough patience to not shoot birds that aren’t handled.

I would be remiss to not mention one more very important thing you have going for you. You are not afraid to dig in and look for answers. As a teacher, I have never once had a student who I was truly worried about in my class, who had a parent who was obviously worried about being a good parent and actively searching for solutions and guidance. I have also dealt with a lot of train wrecks whose parents already had every answer.

Garrison

Appreciate the advice Garrison. This has been a big learning experience and I'm doing my best so hopefully it pays off. I feel like if I get my hands on some training birds she will make some good progress.

[Ontariofella]

I know that you're trying, however this all stems, or most of it from the fact that you apparently don't have an organized training program you're following. Before you ever get a dog, you should have gotten and studied a training program and written out the sequence you would hope to proceed in..

So, here's what I'd do now. First, I'd build a bird house to hold a dozen pigeons. Don't worry about quail, they are not nearly as durable as pigeon. Then, Even if you have to travel five hours, find someone and but a dozen pigeons or chuckar. You can make your own release cages or buy a three cheap ones from Gun Dog Supply or Lion Country. You've given the dog a course in hold, and you say it has some obedience, so you're on the way.

There are three basic things every dog HAS to know to hunt: HERE, NO!, AND WHOA. If the dog is non slip on those three things it is very hunt able. He should also know that three blasts of the whistle mean HERE, and two blasts means NO!. If you want to keep him closer hunting, every time he gets a bit far out, hit him with two blasts of the whistle and command NO, HERE! Pretty soon all you'll need is two quick tweets to bring him closer.

Once you have birds, you can begin steadying him on walking birds. It is IMPOSSIBLE to make a good bird dog without birds.

That gives you kind of an idea. It's to involved to guide you step by step. A program does that. What program have you purchased to guide your training?


There was a great American retriever trainer named Charles Morgan. He had a saying that went something like this: "Training a dog is no more than replacing a more serious problem with a less serious problem until we are left with as few problems as possible".

I was going to use the perfect start perfect finish program, until I realized it was fairly dependent on having training birds available. For training I used mostly videos on YouTube and I read the book "how to help gundogs train themselves" by Joan Bailey. I realize now that I need to get training birds, so next spring I'm gonna do whatever I have to do to get them. My plan is to start her right from the beginning with the perfect start program once I get birds.

[gonehuntin']

Perfect Start, Perfect Finish is a GREAT program and I highly recommend it. You only need a lot of birds IF you use them like he does. He only does it that way because he has flocks of homers. You can do the SAME thing with a half dozen birds and a fishing rod. If you look, I've posted a short video here before showing how. Good, you have a solid plan. Good luck!

[pgidley]

Perfect Start Perfect Finish is an excellent program, and is what we followed when our dog was a pup. We were in a similar situation to you, being new to pointing dogs and training. I had a chuckle just now thinking back to the nights my wife and I spent netting pigeons under highway overpasses with a big spotlight when we lived down in Southern Ontario still. It wasn't until we moved North that I finally was able to establish a loft and got in touch with a pigeon racer who was willing to give me some young birds. That program certainly makes use of a lot of birds! Perfection Kennels isn't terribly far from us (by Northern Ontario standards) either, and they do host seminars and training events. It would be worth the drive if

As long as the season is open, I would keep running her on wild birds. I wouldn't even shoot any at this point, just focus on the dog and calmly praise her while she stands, and if the bird flushes into a tree, leash her up and quietly lead her away (removing the potential reward of seeing the bird in the tree). You can get some work in during the early spring after thaw as well, before nesting starts. Then shift over to pigeons and some formal steadiness training.

Wild grouse are good because they will teach a dog what they can and can't get away with in terms of pressure. Grouse teach caution that is very hard to replicate with pigeons. However, pigeons and launchers allow the trainer to set up perfect situations, so in some ways are better for teaching the concept of pointing and allowing the handler to flush. Both are just tools in your toolbox for training. A lot of people would and do pay a lot of money to have their dogs exposed to wild birds, so you're lucky in that regard.

You have some very good advice from some very knowledgeable people in this thread - garrison's post in particular is spot-on.