GSP not so good with strangers

[mlese92]

Hi everyone,

Some of you on here have probably read several posts where I ask very novice questions due to lack of experience with a GSP. Here is another!

My GSP (Maverick) is now just over 1 yr old. He's a great dog, obedient most of the time when he decides not to be stubborn and a blast to do anything with. My one "issue" is that I feel he is not as friendly around strangers and is a bit on edge it seems a lot of the time. He wasn't socialized alot as a young pup and we take him everywhere but he just doesn't easily warm up to most people. We had one friend over, and after barking at her initially, he eventually warmed up to her and was laying with her on the couch napping. Most of the time though he will go up and sniff them out and for some people, he will allow them to pet him but only under the chin. Anyone going over his head he either barks and sometimes lunges or just jumps back quickly. I know that is a dominance thing so I understand somewhat why he does it.

This weekend we had quite a few guests over (roughly 20 people) and while he did ok, at times he definitely was stressed and had some people uncomfortable because although I know he is harmless, when a 50 lb dog barks and is lunging at you, it can be intimidating. It happens more when people get closer to his face but he will also do it to random people just sometimes reaching for something near him. My question is, is this sometimes normal GSP behavior and should I be concerned it can turn into fear aggression? I should have put him away as I am sure putting him in that position was not doing him any favors. I don't know if it's a behavior in response to feeling the need to protect his territory or he just doesn't trust strangers yet at all. Or at least in settings where there are too many people. I hope he can get to the point where he just wants to play with everyone like he does with us, but will accept if he never gets to that point. I know he is still young but still something concerning to me at least.

[Steve007]

I should have put him away as I am sure putting him in that position was not doing him any favors. I don't know if it's a behavior in response to feeling the need to protect his territory or he just doesn't trust strangers yet at all. Or at least in settings where there are too many people. I hope he can get to the point where he just wants to play with everyone like he does with us, but will accept if he never gets to that point. I know he is still young but still something concerning to me at least.

First of all, dogs are different and you have no reason to try to force him to be a Golden Retriever. Personally speaking, I would prefer that my dog not be friends with the world. While opinions vary, I don't think you should put any dog in a position where he's freely associating with 20 non-dog people. Some of them would've been feeding him food, for example, which leads to bad habits and he would certainly have been stressed and confused.

It sounds as though you just need to get a "handle" on him, and to teach them some real obedience work. Try contacting your local obedience club (or school), where the instructors have genuine AKC titles put on dogs as credentials (CDX, UD, UDX or similar). Putting some real work into him every day -- that would be every day--- will make him secure that he knows what to do and that he relies upon you for direction. Going to classes once a week will also serve to socialize him and to get him used to working under distractions. There is a lot more to keeping a good-sized working dog than just treating him as a pet, and you owe it to him to do your best with him. He's at a good age to do it.

[mlese92]

It sounds as though you just need to get a "handle" on him, and to teach them some real obedience work. Try contacting your local obedience club (or school), where the instructors have genuine AKC titles put on dogs as credentials (CDX, UD, UDX or similar). Putting some real work into him every day -- that would be every day--- will make him secure that he knows what to do and that he relies upon you for direction. Going to classes once a week will also serve to socialize him and to get him used to working under distractions. There is a lot more to keeping a good-sized working dog than just treating him as a pet, and you owe it to him to do your best with him. He's at a good age to do it.
[/quote]

Thanks Steve I appreciate the feedback. I admit I have fallen off a bit with obedience work since I got comfortable with the level he is at in terms of how quick he responds most of the time. I think he would really benefit from those classes in a group setting and where I can actually speak to a trainer who sees his behaviors in person.

[Sharon]

People say, "Socialize pup well and everything will be fine." This has not been my experience for every dog I have had , although socializing is an essential first step. Without year 1 socializing, many of the normal obedience work doesn't help entirely. Every dog is different though.
I have had 2 out of 7 dogs that could not be trusted around strangers. Rather than have a problem , I supervised carefully. They wore a muzzle to the vet, were crated when I had company ;were kept away from strangers when walking around the block, and one was put down. I've had lots of experience with dogs , but sometimes these are the only safe solutions.

Before I got wiser, a dog jumped up and grabbed my visiting brother -in-law by the shirt. That went over really well.

[RyanDoolittle]

After reading that entire post I think you are beyond internet help. Seek professional help before they gets any worse.

Step #1 will begin with you stop treating him like a person and start treating him as a pack member. This is usually the start of most house hold problems.

Establish you and your family are in charge. The dog is at the bottom.

And if you haven't started already, start looking for help from a professional that specializes in this type of behavior. Myself, I think you are beyond an obedience class. Your not worried about teaching him to sit. Seek out a working dog club and get help from a trainer there. They deal with dogs that have this personality x10 everyday and how to do it safely. That's where I would start. I think you are close to a bite situation, whether on purpose or accident. You really don't want to go any further, nip the problem now.

[Steve007]

Mr. Doolittle's confused post indicates he is quite weak in understanding what genuine obedience training is. It is a common problem among people who have little exposure to such things and know only the misinformation conveyed by those who have even less knowledge.

AKC obedience work (this refers to people who get genuine instruction from those who have titles on their dogs, such as CDX/UD, not "behavioral" training) results in a dog who performs well at critical commands under difficult distractions far beyond what are usually encountered. The usefulness of doing so is beyond measure. The dog understands what it should do and relies upon the trainer for direction, and is rarely confused. Big and enthusiastic dogs in particular (and a young GSP certainly qualifies) are easily handled after this sort of careful daily training.

My dogs are occasionally in contact with fragile people -- whether that be elderly women my wife invites over after church or my 90-year-old mother-- and I simply put them on a down/stay for five minutes or so, then release them. They are quite calm and conduct themselves appropriately, as they have quietly accustomed themselves to a new visitor. Allowing them to interact freely with 20 non-dog people as the OP did is clearly inappropriate for any dog.

People with exposure only to bird dogs are frequently woefully ignorant of other types of training, just as only obedience people are unknowledgeable about bird dog training and both may be unappreciative of conformation competition. A bit of open-mindedness and acknowledgment of irrational prejudice based on lack of information -- and the benefit of crosstraining -- would be of useful to all concerned.

[RyanDoolittle]

The problem isn't isn't dog sitting down. The problem is behavior most likely from lack of structure during the dogs upbringing. Lacking structure is something that is quiet common in today's dogs, we treat them like people, not like dogs.

In this case we have a dog lunging at people with an unfriendly intent and intimidating guests. How many more times does it need to happen before the dog barks and lunges, someone pulls back wrong and as the dog closes its mouth, the mouth closes on a hand or arm. Accident or not this is NOT where you want to be with your dog.

Seek professional help from someone who specializes in a working dogs mind. When your ready to go play sit and lay down, there are plenty of obedience trainers for that. Remember we aren't dealing with a dog that's so happy he is jumping all over guests and being a pest.

[shags]

A dog that is barking and lunging at people needs more than a simple obedience command. He needs to understand that he is not in charge, he is not the boss, and he doesn't get to decide who is allowed to be in the house.
The OP states that his dog is pretty good with obedience commands unless the dog 'decides' to be stubborn. What happens when an aggressive dog - and barking and lunging is aggressive - 'decides' to put his teeth into someone's hands, leg, or face?

I wish the OP would have stated what he did to correct the dog when he barked and lunged. Was the dog sternly corrected? Was he held back and told "It's OK, buddy...good boy"? Was he taken out of the situation and put up away from the stress? In my experience a lot of poor canine behavior is reinforced by owners who inadvertently encourage exactly what they want to stop.

It's OK for a dog to be aloof and not be warm and cuddly to everyone. Not every dog is an extrovert. The OP needs to understand that what he wants his dog to be may not be what his dog is, and learn how to handle the dog appropriately.
I hope he takes Ryan Doolittle's advice and seeks out a good trainer before this dog's aggressive behavior escalates.

[Steve007]

The problem isn't isn't dog sitting down. The problem is behavior most likely from lack of structure during the dogs upbringing. Lacking structure is something that is quiet common in today's dogs, we treat them like people, not like dogs.

Genuine obedience work IS structure. If you knew more about it -- rather than what you think you know-- you would understand that. Putting a few obedience titles on your dog --or even trying and failing, but at least going to trials and getting more exposure to it -- would add greatly to your knowledge. Crosstraining at competition levels would be beneficial. Dog people tend to "stovepipe"; that is, know only about their own field and very little other than irrational prejudice outside of that area. It is a mistake, and we see it in your response. And obedience work IS work, an obedience dog IS a working dog and a serious obedience instructor trains working dogs. See? Stovepiping.

[Sharon]

Lets try to try to continue to help the new member and not attack other people's posts please.

[RyanDoolittle]

The dog is past that point Steve. That's what you are failing to recognize. All those things would have been excellent in the past 18 months. Now it's time for something more serious.

[Sharon]

Exactly.
which is why in my post I recommended safety steps until the dog gets help that might help. I've had many rescued dogs , not socialized nor properly cared for in their early years. Some things can't be fixed. 3 became fine pets for us using the safety measures mentioned. One after my best efforts had to be put down.

[Steve007]

The dog is past that point Steve. That's what you are failing to recognize. All those things would have been excellent in the past 18 months. Now it's time for something more serious.

It is a barely one-year-old dog according to OP, and presumably well-socialized within certain limits or at least not unsocialized. Good time to put some appropriate work into him.