Gun Dog Forum

Hi guys,
I have a 8 month old pointer pup, my first long tailed dog. I know tails can be a touchy subject with some, but I have some concerns about his tail set. I was under the impression that with age (strength) their tale should straighten out. At what age should I expect to see a straighter tail? Anything I can do to help encourage a better tail?

What's going on with it? Is he pulling it, is it sickle, or what? How to fix depends on what the problem is.

FWIW, tail set means where on the dog's body the tail sits; you see some dogs with a tail set high on the back and others where the tail starts farther down over their rump. You can't change that.

Pulled, sickled, or curved tails can change some over time but I've never seen one become a high straight poker tail. I've seen them get better or worse depending on if the dog was tired or fresh, the intensity he had on a particular bird, or how well the dog was conditioned. Some seemed to change if the sun was shining or if a cloud passed by. How close those came to "the ideal" varied but none I ever saw became "perfect".

It's a loud secret that tails can be corrected surgically. You'll find people who think it's no big deal, but then there are others who think it's a huge moral failing to even think about it.

How hard you want to work on it or the extents to where you're willing to go might depend on your purpose for your dog. As breeding stock, I would think a pulled or really sickled tail would push him out of the gene pool in Pointer World. For competition it would depend on what and where - some formats would overlook it, while others, you wouldn't have a chance. As a personal gundog, it might drive you crazy to see that every day, but then it could be something you get used to as you come to appreciate your dog for other characteristics.

So he is sickle tailed, almost to the point where his tail will touch his body in some cases. As he runs, it does seem like he is holding his tail straighter, when he was younger he ran with a sickle as well.

This is probably not what you want to hear, but in my mind it's unlikely that your dog's tail will improve. I'm on my fourth pointer, and none of their tails changed significantly from what they carried as a pup. I have one that is exactly what Shags described - his tail varies day to day, sometimes pulled, sometimes at ten o'clock, and about half the time pretty good, but rarely perfect. Two others had poker straight tails from the get go. The fourth rarely got to ten o'clock on his best days.

Before I got into pointers I scoffed at the concern about a straight tail, but have since come to appreciate it, as in my estimation, it presents a more complete image of intensity. It's also nice to never wonder if a dog is on point or just standing there, and a 12 o'clock tail is sometimes the only thing visible in tall cover. All that said, the dogs with the less-than-perfect tails still put the same number of birds in the bag. Purely an aesthetic feature, but one that's often considered important in the pointer world. I've heard of dogs whose tails improved with age, but in those situations it was a flat tail coming up, rather than a sickle tail migrating back and straightening out. Again, I've only had four pointers, and certainly haven't seen it all, so someone else might have a more encouraging outlook for you.

If it really bothers you, you could consider the surgical remedy, but unfortunately the dog probably shouldn't be a candidate for breeding.

PMW -

Unfortunately, ckirsch is probably spot on. A sickle tail , especially one that curls over to the extent that it touches the dog's back is not something that is likely to straighten out, if it has not by the time the dog is 8 months of age. I do not believe there is anything you can do, short of surgical intervention, that will make a significant difference...and the surgeries don't always work. I know of one instance where a fellow sliced a piece of schedule 40 PVC lengthwise put his dog's tail in, taped it closed and kept it in that "cast" for several weeks. It did cause the tail to lose a fair amount of its curvature...but I consider what he did somewhat inhumane, especially since it was for cosmetic reasons.

I will say that as the dog runs and gets tired, the sickling should get less pronounced. If a dog has a moderate forward curve to its tail when it is fresh out of the box, the longer and harder it runs the more likely the tail will approach vertical on a point. If a dog starts out fresh with a 12 o'clock tail on its first find, it is not unusual for the dog to point with a10:30 or lower tail after a couple of hours of hard running. This is pretty normal and I have seen this many times.

The good news is that dogs do not find birds with that end, so its utility as a hunting dog is not affected. It is, essentially a cosmetic thing. The bad news, as previously mentioned, is that this is a deal breaker as far as breeding the dog is concerned. I would also be skeptical of similar breeding.

RayG

You could always take a page out of the Irish Setter page and have some of the ligaments snipped to straighten it out.

Doesn't do the breed any good but as long as the dog looks good right.

Tail carriage is inherited and you aren't going to do much to change that. Possibly with some patient clicker training, you could teach the dog to hold the tail up straight, but that won't carry over into the field. The dog won't be thinking about his tail when he is pointing a bird.

Does it really matter? Does the dog find birds and bring them to you after you shoot them? Is he a nice dog or a fun dog to be around and do you enjoy being out in the field with him?

Probably he is not intended for breeding because he will more than likely throw that tail carriage. Other than that, it shouldn't affect how he works.

Learn how to train and work with this one and if the tail is important to you, you now know that for when you buy the next one.

He is a super nice pup, and shows promise already. Overall I am happy with him, however for trialing, the tail is a downfall. My expectation when buying a pointer, especially from an all age line, is a straight tail. But, that seems like the luck of the draw, nothing he did to determine that, and I am happy with him.

PoorMansWrangler wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 22, 2021 5:03 pm

He is a super nice pup, and shows promise already. Overall I am happy with him, however for trialing, the tail is a downfall. My expectation when buying a pointer, especially from an all age line, is a straight tail. But, that seems like the luck of the draw, nothing he did to determine that, and I am happy with him.

Your expectations are very reasonable, but they depend on folks being straight up. Most dog people are...but... unfortunately, some are not.

Some few all age folks fix their dog's tails just as some few shooting dog folks do. Yes it is inherently dishonest because it masks a genetic fault and allows it to continue. Your youngster's situation is very likely the result of such a deception, somewhere along the line.

Money and ego speak louder to some than the betterment of the breed...but, well... you know.

It ain't the dog's fault. You got that part right. Good luck with him.

RayG