Puppy Barks in Outside Kenne

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PoorMansWrangler
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Puppy Barks in Outside Kenne

Post by PoorMansWrangler » Thu May 27, 2021 6:43 am

Hey guys wanted some advice. Currently have a new puppy, 4 months old, who is in an outside kennel during the day next to my older dog. During the day he is fine, quiet and sleeps. When I get home, I take them for a run, and put them back in the outside kennel until they are fed, and they come inside for the evening. After I run the dogs, the young puppy will bark his head off in the kennel until he gets fed. I’ve tried the shushing and smacking the kennel, but I don’t think I’m getting there fast enough for him to make the connection. Worried about putting an e collar on him, due to his young age, and I haven’t collar conditioned him yet. Any suggestions?

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Re: Puppy Barks in Outside Kenne

Post by Sharon » Thu May 27, 2021 10:46 am

Personally I wouldn't use an e collar for that . He's hungry. I'd feed asap and I bet the barking would stop. ( At 4 months I am feeding twice a day.)
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Re: Puppy Barks in Outside Kenne

Post by polmaise » Thu May 27, 2021 1:27 pm

PoorMansWrangler wrote:
Thu May 27, 2021 6:43 am
Hey guys wanted some advice. Currently have a new puppy, 4 months old, who is in an outside kennel during the day next to my older dog. During the day he is fine, quiet and sleeps. When I get home, I take them for a run, and put them back in the outside kennel until they are fed, and they come inside for the evening. After I run the dogs, the young puppy will bark his head off in the kennel until he gets fed. I’ve tried the shushing and smacking the kennel, but I don’t think I’m getting there fast enough for him to make the connection. Worried about putting an e collar on him, due to his young age, and I haven’t collar conditioned him yet. Any suggestions?
Is there any chance you could possibly feed the pup as soon as he is back in the kennel after your run ,or possibly have the food already in his kennel when he returns ?...

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Re: Puppy Barks in Outside Kenne

Post by PoorMansWrangler » Thu May 27, 2021 3:03 pm

I have been holding off on feeding right after running to help cool down and reduce possibility of bloat

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Re: Puppy Barks in Outside Kenne

Post by Sharon » Thu May 27, 2021 3:07 pm

Good point. They say you only have to wait an hour + after running hard.

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Re: Puppy Barks in Outside Kenne

Post by polmaise » Thu May 27, 2021 3:10 pm

PoorMansWrangler wrote:
Thu May 27, 2021 3:03 pm
I have been holding off on feeding right after running to help cool down and reduce possibility of bloat
You have also possibly been conditioning bark/noise after a run? .....with the procedure .
Huntsman , with 100 hounds don't have this problem/issue with bloat!
Perhaps over the last 100 years they have got it wrong?

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Re: Puppy Barks in Outside Kenne

Post by PoorMansWrangler » Thu May 27, 2021 4:36 pm

polmaise wrote:
Thu May 27, 2021 3:10 pm
PoorMansWrangler wrote:
Thu May 27, 2021 3:03 pm
I have been holding off on feeding right after running to help cool down and reduce possibility of bloat
You have also possibly been conditioning bark/noise after a run? .....with the procedure .
Huntsman , with 100 hounds don't have this problem/issue with bloat!
Perhaps over the last 100 years they have got it wrong?
While I am only on my second dog, everyone I have spoke to recommends holding off on feeding right after a heavy run. To me it makes sense, after you go for a run, typically we don’t eat a meal right after. If it’s the little bit of insurance against possibly a dog dying, or a couple thousand dollar surgery, it makes sense to me at least to do something that simple. Or maybe I could be wrong and this cheap insurance is not worth a dog barking in the kennel, a unfavorable habit in the first place. They being said I am still very new to this and appreciate any helpful advice

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Re: Puppy Barks in Outside Kenne

Post by birddogger2 » Thu May 27, 2021 5:24 pm

Question??

Can you rig a water hose with a nozzle attached, into the youngster's kennel, with a shut off valve close to where you are in the house? The weather is warming up so this is pretty safe and just might work. If you can rig something up, a surprise spray of water and a verbal reprimand might get the youngster's attention. At the least it will get the little hellion to go inside its kennel to get way from the spray.
RayG

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Re: Puppy Barks in Outside Kenne

Post by shags » Fri May 28, 2021 4:52 am

Can you plan to spend a little while out there at the kennel after putting the dogs up? Keep the hose right near you with enough water pressure to reach the little dude when he starts in.

It shouldn't take many blasts of water to send the message.

Your choice would be whether to hose him him *after* you holler "Quiet!' so he learns what quiet means, or to not command first, sorta like trash breaking off barking.

All that being said, I have to say I have some sympathy for the pup. There he is, cooped up all day long with only a (most likely) sleeping older dog for company. Then his favorite person in the world comes along, takes him out for some fun, then shuts him back in the kennel before he's tired. For my own pup, I'd give him more one on one time to blow off more steam, then put him up before his dinner. Use the hose if needed. I know there's always something to catch up on after work, and dealing with puppy energy can be annoying when you're busy, but he won't be a puppy for much longer and hopefully will learn how to settle himself.

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Re: Puppy Barks in Outside Kenne

Post by cjhills » Fri May 28, 2021 5:49 am

Wrangler:
A fact of life with a puppy. Sometimes they are inconvenient.
Not trying to tell you how to spend your time or handle your personal dog situation. You are training your dog to bark in the kennel and rewarding him with food for barking. He probably does not cool down much when he is barking and carrying on..
A four month old puppy does not need a huge amount of hard running, strenuous excercise. Knowing the breed might make a little difference. Not much though. Knowing what time you have to spend with the dog would help.
I think I would make the run time shorter and spend some time with play and some slow ,quiet basic training to give him time to cool down and give you some time to relax and enjoy. Maybe short retrieves or whatever you like to do. When he is calm and quiet pet him up feed him a go on your way. Vary your routine. If possibile don't return to the kennel if he is barking.
At may be at sometime in thefuture you may need a bark collar. Not yet.You are probably wasting your time and causing future issues if you use punishment now.......CJ

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Re: Puppy Barks in Outside Kenne

Post by polmaise » Fri May 28, 2021 1:18 pm

Hmmmn...
*Puppy barks in Outside Kennel
*Puppy barks after run in outside kennel
*Puppy barks when it is made to wait for food after run and put in outside kennel
*Owner likes to run dogs
*Hard run or run is deceptive , so would be heat/temperature/terrain and distance
*Owner wants puppy to not bark when puppy has had a run
*Owner wants puppy to wait until food is supplied by owner without puppy barking
*Owner has quote" everyone I have spoke to recommends holding off on feeding right after a heavy run.
*Owner wants puppy to behave like a trained dog that has learned down time and sequence of desired behavior by owner
*suggestions by force of compliance like water or any other method is instant ,but band aid in training/learning
............
Owner should look at how 'athletes' Run themselves and Dogs daily ...Warm up is gentle and slow, building up to hard run , and a 'Warm down' by gentle pace , then you can 'eat'!! lol..like Hounds.
I'm out. Best of luck with the poor dog.

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Re: Puppy Barks in Outside Kenne

Post by PoorMansWrangler » Fri May 28, 2021 3:55 pm

Appreciate the help from everyone, this appears to have gone down hill. Just wanted to clarify, the puppy isn’t in the kennel alone all day, just when I am at work. I do this because I’ve experienced separation anxiety in dogs before, and it can turkey make or break a relationship. That and no one is home to let the puppy out of the crate, and I would rather not have a do sit in it’s pee and poo until I can get home. After I get off work, we work on obedience and typically do an hour of free run, with some swimming then we go back in the house. As for the breed, English pointer. I try and feed the dogs in there kennel, as I don’t want anyone to get aggressive when it comes to food. My main concern is I don’t want this habit to carry on, especially when it comes to being on a tie out during field trials etc. I would rather nip this in the bud early. I truly appreciate the advice as it is helpful.

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Re: Puppy Barks in Outside Kenne

Post by PoorMansWrangler » Fri May 28, 2021 3:56 pm

polmaise wrote:
Fri May 28, 2021 1:18 pm
Hmmmn...
*Puppy barks in Outside Kennel
*Puppy barks after run in outside kennel
*Puppy barks when it is made to wait for food after run and put in outside kennel
*Owner likes to run dogs
*Hard run or run is deceptive , so would be heat/temperature/terrain and distance
*Owner wants puppy to not bark when puppy has had a run
*Owner wants puppy to wait until food is supplied by owner without puppy barking
*Owner has quote" everyone I have spoke to recommends holding off on feeding right after a heavy run.
*Owner wants puppy to behave like a trained dog that has learned down time and sequence of desired behavior by owner
*suggestions by force of compliance like water or any other method is instant ,but band aid in training/learning
............
Owner should look at how 'athletes' Run themselves and Dogs daily ...Warm up is gentle and slow, building up to hard run , and a 'Warm down' by gentle pace , then you can 'eat'!! lol..like Hounds.
I'm out. Best of luck with the poor dog.
Hopefully this is meant different than I am reading, but I appreciate your advice.

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Re: Puppy Barks in Outside Kenne

Post by gonehuntin' » Fri May 28, 2021 6:48 pm

If you feed him when YOU don't want to, you're reinforcing an undesirable behavior. Telling them to "shush" doesn't work. It'll take work on your part. EVERY time pup barks, go right back to the kennel, open the gate, pinch the pups jowls on his upper canines, and command NO!. One word, that's it. Walk away. Repeat the exact punishment and command if it occurs again. You will have to be consistent and correct pup EVERY time, no exceptions. Not difficult, just takes time and commitment on your part. That's the way I've done it for about 60 years now and it works.

DO NOT use the collar on the pup to stop the barking. It can actually make it worse.

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Re: Puppy Barks in Outside Kenne

Post by slistoe » Fri May 28, 2021 8:04 pm

gonehuntin' wrote:
Fri May 28, 2021 6:48 pm
If you feed him when YOU don't want to, you're reinforcing an undesirable behavior. Telling them to "shush" doesn't work. It'll take work on your part. EVERY time pup barks, go right back to the kennel, open the gate, pinch the pups jowls on his upper canines, and command NO!. One word, that's it. Walk away. Repeat the exact punishment and command if it occurs again. You will have to be consistent and correct pup EVERY time, no exceptions. Not difficult, just takes time and commitment on your part. That's the way I've done it for about 60 years now and it works.

DO NOT use the collar on the pup to stop the barking. It can actually make it worse.
I had a friend in the city who was about to lose their GSP because of constant barking/whining in the kennel and city bylaw officers had been by a number of times. He claimed he had tried everything - I said if you want to keep your dog you need to be more committed than the dog. I advised him to get a squirt bottle and fill it with lemon juice or vinegar - then before you start anything put up some targets and practice, practice, practice till you can squirt what you want everytime. Then when you are ready you will need to be consistent - every time, and I mean EVERY time he barks or whines you take the bottle and squirt him in the mouth. He took a weeks holidays and his wife took the next week. They took turns at night. By the end of the two weeks the dog was cured. A couple years later I was at his place and saw the squirt bottle sitting in the kitchen window. I asked if he was having trouble again - he said no, the bottle is empty and has been for well over a year. Occasionally you might hear a little whine from the dog and if you watch you will see him look to the bottle in the window - and that is the end of that.

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Re: Puppy Barks in Outside Kenne

Post by gonehuntin' » Fri May 28, 2021 8:54 pm

slistoe wrote:
Fri May 28, 2021 8:04 pm
gonehuntin' wrote:
Fri May 28, 2021 6:48 pm
If you feed him when YOU don't want to, you're reinforcing an undesirable behavior. Telling them to "shush" doesn't work. It'll take work on your part. EVERY time pup barks, go right back to the kennel, open the gate, pinch the pups jowls on his upper canines, and command NO!. One word, that's it. Walk away. Repeat the exact punishment and command if it occurs again. You will have to be consistent and correct pup EVERY time, no exceptions. Not difficult, just takes time and commitment on your part. That's the way I've done it for about 60 years now and it works.

DO NOT use the collar on the pup to stop the barking. It can actually make it worse.
I had a friend in the city who was about to lose their GSP because of constant barking/whining in the kennel and city bylaw officers had been by a number of times. He claimed he had tried everything - I said if you want to keep your dog you need to be more committed than the dog. I advised him to get a squirt bottle and fill it with lemon juice or vinegar - then before you start anything put up some targets and practice, practice, practice till you can squirt what you want everytime. Then when you are ready you will need to be consistent - every time, and I mean EVERY time he barks or whines you take the bottle and squirt him in the mouth. He took a weeks holidays and his wife took the next week. They took turns at night. By the end of the two weeks the dog was cured. A couple years later I was at his place and saw the squirt bottle sitting in the kitchen window. I asked if he was having trouble again - he said no, the bottle is empty and has been for well over a year. Occasionally you might hear a little whine from the dog and if you watch you will see him look to the bottle in the window - and that is the end of that.
I like that.

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Re: Puppy Barks in Outside Kenne

Post by shags » Sat May 29, 2021 5:20 am

Another method you might consider is the Smiths' Silent Command System using a Figure 8 for barking; it also has other training implications

http://www.huntsmith.com/article.php?id=7

You have to be ready to spend some time with it and the dog, because you don't apply it and leave the dog unattended. It can take a lot of repetition depending on the dog. But it works, and it's something you can apply immediately when you return the pup to the kennel after his run/training time.

You don't have to purchase one, they are easy enough to make out of 3/16 cordage.

Some years back I attended a Rick Smith seminar and we learned how to use the Figure 8. It's easy but can be time consuming depending on the dog. Over the course of an afternoon my obnoxiously bossy and yappy setter learned about being quiet on the stakeout at the seminar, and when we got home it took only one or two applications to transfer the training to his behavior in our dog yard.
There were 8 or 10 dogs at this particular seminar, and at the beginning of the stake out/ Figure 8 exercise it was pretty noisy - you know how dogs are at trials on stake outs, or in kennels when one starts in, they all join. But it wasn't long before we could all sit in our lawn chairs and listen to Rick in peace and quiet.

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Re: Puppy Barks in Outside Kenne

Post by oregon woodsmoke » Sat May 29, 2021 4:03 pm

Your pup is barking for his supper and after he barks long enough, sure enough, he gets his supper. My dog starts about an hour before supper with the hungry pleading stare. He knows better than to make noise about it but I am sure that he believes the hungry stare is what makes me get up and eventually feed him. Your dog thinks that barking at you reminds you to feed him.

What I would do is after the run, I would bring him into the house and put him in his crate. Then he is right there for you to correct him for noise.

Let him rest and let him know that no one goes out for their supper until they are quiet. At various times while you are with him, take any opportunity to teach him the command "quiet",

Give him a couple of months and then when you take him out, put him in the kennel and don't feed him, but stand right there so you can correct any noise. When he is quiet, then he gets his supper. You can gradually stretch the time out between kennel and supper so he doesn't learn he gets fed as soon as he is out in the kennel.

Take your time with this and he will figure out that no dog gets fed until he is quiet and he will stop the barking. It takes time, but it's not like you are doing anything else except for exercising and feeding. You are still doing the same with only a slight change in timing.

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