Gun Dog Forum

So during their fb live videos they answer viewers training ?s. This is great to listen to as a lot of info
is given. Sometimes they ask for video of what's going on. This is easy to do thru fb messenger. Later they review video and give a informative reply.
I asked about whoa training,they said send a video. I sent a video where I command whoa and the dog whoas but only after turning somewhat to face me.
No birds to point just a whoa command. They replied the video looks good there is no issue as the dog is just looking for guidance. They went on to add it appears my timing with the collar overlay was good but perhaps I could release a second earlier.

So yesterday I asked about the incessant hold hold hold hold that is used by many in ff. They replied this is too long of a answer to type out so call us now and we will discuss. So I called and John answered and asked for a little more info. He then replied so your dogs already retrieve they need more work on here. Polish up their recall and see if that doesn't clean up those sloppy retrieves. He did go on to say that the hold hold hold ? is a good one but I was missing the proper application of the hold command.

Thanks again to PK and for any who haven't checked them out , the sooner you do , the sooner you will become a better trainer.

PK is great and I’ve really enjoyed their live videos.

I've only seen one of their video's and that was years ago. Their first I think it was. Regarding the hold command, I never ever use it. To me, fetch means get it in your mouth and bring it to me. If the dog is obeying the fetch command, there is no reason for another hold command! If your dog is fetching well then what is the need for hold? Of course if the dog is not fetching well then working on the fetch command is needed. There's another side too. Rather than using fetch as a command you could use hold. Then hold would mean to me exactly what fetch means. Of course that could change to go get it too! Point is to a dog english is a language they don't understand but they do learn to associate an action with a word. What generally is done is to select a word for a command that has meaning to the handler. We understand english, well, somewhat!

Well you have to walk before you can run so hold is taught as the basis for fetch. My dogs all "fetch" just now a polished retrieve to hand so that is what I am working on.
Birds aren't a problem but dummies are another issue. A dog who retrieves a dummy and drops it at your feet really is confused by the fetch command at the moment.,so I started ff. It has taken a week for the dogs to realize what the hold command is. John said the hold command is a command and a tap on the bottom of the jaw upwards is the reinforcement until the hold is solid. The hold hold hold chant while the dog is holding the object is incorrect just like here here here here.

I have trained dogs for years but only to a level that was satisfactory for my own hunting. I often took friends who had no dogs to enjoy the bird work. I seldom hunted with others who had dogs unless I had helped train them also.Now I am playing some games,navhda and akc,and need to refine my methods.

Every retrieve program I have studied and followed starts with training Hold and then Fetch follows that. Jon's Perfect Retrieve DVD program is done in that progression.

averageguy wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 16, 2020 1:13 pm

Every retrieve program I have studied and followed starts with training Hold and then Fetch follows that. Jon's Perfect Retrieve DVD program is done in that progression.

That is why I posed the ? to PK about the hold command. How many other YouTube trainers are chanting hold hold hold ?

weimdogman wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 16, 2020 3:16 pm

averageguy wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 16, 2020 1:13 pm

Every retrieve program I have studied and followed starts with training Hold and then Fetch follows that. Jon's Perfect Retrieve DVD program is done in that progression.

That is why I posed the ? to PK about the hold command. How many other YouTube trainers are chanting hold hold hold ?

With the PK method, once the dog understand the verbal hold command Jon uses the e-collar to re-enforce the hold. I think this eliminates the need for some of the hold-hold-hold-chants. Jon doesn't use the ear pinch or toe hitch and goes straight to the ecollar for fetch. By using the ecollar hold it also helps to condition the dog to the ecollar before transitioning to the ecollar fetch.

cr

This such a generous gift! They take new dogs and skittish dogs so you can see them work them all!

There are not any better people in the dog world than Jon and Jessica.

Agreed sir! They are giving away years of knowledge to help other dog owners and trainers.

DonF wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 16, 2020 10:42 am

I've only seen one of their video's and that was years ago. Their first I think it was. Regarding the hold command, I never ever use it. To me, fetch means get it in your mouth and bring it to me. If the dog is obeying the fetch command, there is no reason for another hold command! If your dog is fetching well then what is the need for hold? Of course if the dog is not fetching well then working on the fetch command is needed. There's another side too. Rather than using fetch as a command you could use hold. Then hold would mean to me exactly what fetch means. Of course that could change to go get it too! Point is to a dog english is a language they don't understand but they do learn to associate an action with a word. What generally is done is to select a word for a command that has meaning to the handler. We understand english, well, somewhat!

I teach the dog to hold my hand. No mouthing or rolling. Just hold. When retrieving, hold, means no rolling the bird in your mouth. I compete in NSTRA and some judges mark down a dog that is rolling the bird in its mouth on retrieve. ALSO, I like PKs system of training. Using it on my sons dog. think PKs fb programs will bring them a lot of business from people that don't have time or tools to train their own dogs.

I first met Jon in person in the early 2000s when I was training Force Fetch with my young GWP of that era. I was already following his Perfect Start and Perfect Finish DVDs. I was unsure if the Pup was confused or rebelling and wanted to buy some 1:1 time with Jon watching to get his read on the situation. It went well, he assured me what was going on was normal and we were on the right track.

My dogs and I have since been to his location and clinics many times. Jon, Jessica, Mark are all great people who have helped 1000s of dogs and people along the way. I attended two clinics there this year. Auditing one of their clinics is a great value and learning experience if you don't happen to have a dog in training at the time. I have repeated both the Start/Finish and the Broke Dog clinics and picked up something good each time.

They did those FB live sessions to help people and their dogs. They have actually stated they are going to reduce their training volume when they get back from Summer Camp as they run at a fierce pace currently.

Averageguy I posted a few questions and were always quick to reply. They have even offered people to send videos. I imagine they have saved many dogs from being labelled washouts!