Gun Dog Forum

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That's one pretty pup!

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Meller wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 18, 2020 3:00 pm

That's one pretty pup!

Thank You, Sir.

AG-

VERY nice looking youngster! I like the way she is put together and ...what a beautiful head!
Those paws look pretty oversize. I'd say she is going to be a nice sized specimen.

Have a ball with her. Thanks for sharing.

RayG

There is still nothing better than a pup.

Really enjoyed those videos. Enjoy.

Thank You All.

RayG,

Her Dam runs 54lbs on the low end during hunting season, Sire 65lbs. Hopefully she will be big enough to handle 14lb honkers, most importantly she is showing the attitude for it.

I may just have to go over to the dark side after seeing that pup

Grant

What a bold/sassy little pup!
Love what you're doing with her.
Enjoy...they grow up fast!

Thank You, Gentlemen. She is a lot of work and joy.

Just what the Dr ordered. Really enjoyed that ! Beautiful pup & nice work ! Thank's for posting !

averageguy wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 19, 2020 6:18 am

Thank You All.

RayG,

Her Dam runs 54lbs on the low end during hunting season, Sire 65lbs. Hopefully she will be big enough to handle 14lb honkers, most importantly she is showing the attitude for it.

AG -

You got that right.

It ain't about the size of the dog in the fight. It is about the size of the fight in the dog. Attitude!!

RayG

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Nice ! I see you were using a clicker. I am really thinking on giving one a go when I get my next pup. Have you used a clicker before ? If not what are your feeling ? Keep the videos coming ! Please -
Thank's !

Max2,

This is my second pup since picking up a clicker, and yes I find a lot of benefit in the approach with young puppies. The same approach can be used with a Marker Word vs using the clicker. I do both, eventually weaning off the clicker to the Marker Word and then off of treats. But I can always revert back to the clicker and some treats if the situation seems to benefit it from it. I used it in my trained retrieve work on a table with the dog prior and expect I will with this one as well.

I also overlay an ecollar on all the trained Obedience subjects and will with this pup. Having trained it first in this manner the ecollar overlay is pretty easy stuff. The Clicker/Treat approach is ideal for young puppies but there is no way I will have this pup trained up like I want and plan it to be without using some other methods. Recall would be one obvious area - already she will gladly ignore it when she is engrossed in other things and so I carefully avoid giving the command at that point, while working with her currently. Plenty of time ahead for her to learn these things are not optional.

This lays a nice foundation for things to come is how I use it. It also remains a good approach when introducing new things to dog throughout its life e.g. a dog ramp on the side of a jon boat, dog ground blinds done in the same manner as the kennel in the video, a marsh platform getting the dog to jump on and off it, retrieving and holding an object as it does. Done right, the positive association the dog learns as a young puppy carries through as an adult.

Interesting for sure . I saw it being used and it kind of intrigued me . In the past I have worked recall with treats to start. My niece being much younger and getting into obedience and the agility game when asked claimed she has used it with good results. It makes sense to me and I also read somewhere that dogs naturally pick up on it.

Max2 wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 23, 2020 1:39 pm

Interesting for sure . I saw it being used and it kind of intrigued me . In the past I have worked recall with treats to start. My niece being much younger and getting into obedience and the agility game when asked claimed she has used it with good results. It makes sense to me and I also read somewhere that dogs naturally pick up on it.

The Gundog World has lagged all other facets of the working dog world in this area but is catching up rapidly. I don't sell anything and so have no reason to push anything on anyone, but I have yet to hear any valid arguments for not using this approach with young puppies. The results speak for themselves. Michael Ellis at Leerburg has a wealth of information on the subject, check it out.

Some say it will make a pup overly dependent on the handler if you work Obedience at a young age. I suppose it would if you failed to provide balanced exposure learning opportunities but if you do the pup will be awesome at an early age is my experience. She got her 12 week booster shots yesterday. Pretty obvious when her nose detects something of interest and she homes in on it to investigate and then moves on. That water in the pond is just a notch above ice at the moment and she went in up to her ankles of her own accord yesterday smelling something in those cattails that really interests her. As always I stay silent and take it in.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8-SRwIofBY

I think technology and clickers have their place as tools in various stages of training. I also strongly support the silent method ; read your pup or dog in the training process. I always go back to the thought of natural cause of the animal life. Who teaches (or trains) the wolf to be an effective hunter. Our action as teachers or trainers whether as an experienced or a novice is to enhance which is already endowed.


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STOCKB53 wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 29, 2020 5:41 am

I think technology and clickers have their place as tools in various stages of training. I also strongly support the silent method ; read your pup or dog in the training process. I always go back to the thought of natural cause of the animal life. Who teaches (or trains) the wolf to be an effective hunter. Our action as teachers or trainers whether as an experienced or a novice is to enhance which is already endowed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Pretty much my thought. The parents, the game' necessity and nature train the wolf.
Of course some dogs and some trainers are more endowed than others...……….Cj

Averageguy, I concur with starting your pup earlier rather than later. Now, training for a young pup is suited to the fact that he's a pup but it is none-the-less training or if you prefer, learning opportunities tailored to your pup.
If you are a cookie cutter trainer, you might have to wait until those dated processes are applicable to your dog. If you are a progressive trainer, both you and the pup start on that journey as soon as you can!
Dogs don't have a "on/off" switch re learning. We might break from other commitments in our lives to switch into our dog trainer roll but dogs are "on" ALL of the time. Sometimes we forget that. Too often, dogs are learning even when we are not training. If that's the case, why wait to present positive/productive learning ops for pup whenever possible?
Hey...anymore videos coming?

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Great stuff!! Watching pups is SO much fun! Looks like you're right on target Averageguy.
Yes...these are troubling times for sure and yet a pup can put a smile on our faces.
Find time for prayer.

Beautiful pup...thanks for sharing~

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LOVE the videos!! GREAT progress Sir!! ...admirable, and so young!
As for OB being restrictive, it is only as restrictive as the commands emanating from the (over) handler. Otherwise, it's all good, no?
Kudos to you.

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Great enthusiasm. Gotta love that!
Those eyes tell me, that is one SMART dog!

Pup found the right place! No doubt she will be given plenty of work to keep her busy. Congrats to both of you.

Averageguy,

If you don't mind sharing, what obedience work have you been focusing on with the pup? I have a GWP male that is a few weeks younger than yours.. he's 10 1/2 weeks. Some of the training books I read suggested not focusing on obedience work at a young age, with some basic obedience commands not taking place until after Whoa and even after force fetching training. That has always seemed a bit strange to me given that force fetching can't be done until adult teeth are in, so potentially no obedience training in the first 4-6 months...has always struck me as strange. This is my first pointer, so I've got no experience to go on. It sounds like you have plenty, so I'd love to get your feedback on specifically what commands you introduce to your pup at this age. Also, do you find that your method of teaching or encouraging fetch at this age creates a problem if you decide to force fetch down the road?

Garrison wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 16, 2020 10:35 pm

Pup found the right place! No doubt she will be given plenty of work to keep her busy. Congrats to both of you.

Thank you, Sir.

IDHunter,

The videos I posted shows me working on Kennel, Come (most use Here, I use Come), Sit, Whoa and Down and the Positive Re-enforcement approach I use at that age. I start early and often. I admit teaching Sit and Whoa will result in the pup sitting some on a Whoa command. I work through it by gently standing them back up when they do. If I see too much of it I de-emphasize my work on Sit while increasing my focus on Whoa for awhile. I am currently working on both as you see in the video and find puppies are very capable of learning them both, as you can see in my video.

I do that because I hunt my pups on Doves and Waterfowl at an early age and I need them to sit when I tell them to. All it takes is patience and they learn both. I actually do not use the Whoa command until after the pup's first hunting season when I take up steadiness training, but I teach Whoa early and use in it yard/household settings alot at an early age so the pup is well versed in the command before we being training on steady to WSF.

Key to my approach, is I also start early and often giving the puppy daily opportunities to explore and learn in natural terrains, which I also posted video of. Working Obedience in the house as I am while also getting the puppy outside and letting it explore while I watch in silence provides balance to the pup's responsiveness to me and its independence in the field.

We have started working on Obedience outside on the drive way apron and she pays way less attention to me there. I stay patient and keep plugging away at it, rewarding the right behavior when I get it. Sometimes it takes awhile and it is considerably different than when in the house. Which is all the more reason to start now before she becomes even more bold.

Recall/Come will be my next point of emphasis as things start getting dangerous from here on out as the puppy gets more bold. I will use a check cord and teach Come means Come the first and only time I say it within the distances of the Check Cord. I will then overlay an ecollar on that using barely perceptible levels of stimulation. The approach I use on that is well illustrated in the Perfect Start DVD.

I have used the approach I have shown and explained in this thread to condition my young puppies' retrieving for all of them across decades now and all have been excellent at recovering downed game. I put all of them through a traditional ear pinch FF program after their first hunting seasons, until my most recent adult dog.

That dog hunted through his first season in 6 states retrieving from land and water to my feet or my hands with a natural soft mouth having been brought along as you see me working with my current puppy in this thread. After his first hunting season I put him through a Trained Retrieve program where I taught Hold and Fetch, sit at heel and deliver the bird manners, which roughly followed the program illustrated in the Perfect Retrieve DVD. It does not use an ear pinch but it does use an ecollar. This same dog is very polished and skilled in his retrieving manners and we lacked nothing from using this approach vs the approach I used on my prior dogs. I used this approach because I judged it fit this dog's temperament best. Search my threads on this board and you will find numerous videos of the dog I am speaking of working.

There is no possible way anyone could persuade me to delay working on my puppies' development including Obedience until they are 6 months old. Key to that is the methods I use at the much younger ages you see in my videos in this thread. I am using gentle positive re-enforcement not pressure. I will use other methods including pressure as the pup matures. This current pup is 16 weeks old today and I will begin Check Cord Come command work in the yard this coming week. Overlay an ecollar over that following. She is bold enough to handle it and her life will increasingly depend on it.

I will also begin more bird work using pigeons and launchers presented in silence. Search my posts here for more on that.

Hope I have been helpful to your question. PM me and we can always talk further as you go along with your pup. Glad to share anything I have learned and assist you.

averageguy,

Thank you for that detailed response. That is extremely helpful information for me, and frankly confirms some of what I was thinking, which is that the books might be taking me down a different path than I want for me and my pup. The approach you take sounds much more similar to what I had planned on doing before I read the books.

I look forward to following your progress with your pup.

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Looking good!

Grant

I know I said it before, wish there was a like button!

Garrison wrote: ↑

Sun Apr 19, 2020 8:39 pm

I know I said it before, wish there was a like button!

I must agree !!

That said I am hi-jacking this post I do apologize in advance however both Average Guy & Tess seem like kind dog lov'n folks ! (Hope they understand ) I got a new pup myself and would have posted my own thread but I have still not been able to figure out how to post a picture. NEHomer was kind enough a while back to try and explain how to do it but I still am having problems with figuring out how to post . I started an Imgur acc. I'm computer challenged

Sorry for the interruption !

Max2 wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 20, 2020 5:47 am

Garrison wrote: ↑

Sun Apr 19, 2020 8:39 pm

I know I said it before, wish there was a like button!

I must agree !!

That said I am hi-jacking this post I do apologize in advance however both Average Guy & Tess seem like kind dog lov'n folks ! (Hope they understand ) I got a new pup myself and would have posted my own thread but I have still not been able to figure out how to post a picture. NEHomer was kind enough a while back to try and explain how to do it but I still am having problems with figuring out how to post . I started an Imgur acc. I'm computer challenged

Sorry for the interruption !

PM Sent

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She look's good ! Love to see her excitement on point and she kept it together . Look'n good !

Gotta love young dogs. Great job Av!

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You can't do that with your pup at just 19 weeks! You should let it run and then let it run some more. Let it chase stuff, develop her independence, chase deer and rabbits and butterflies, and she shouldn't come back to you unless SHE wants to, if she even does come back. You should have to go get her!
What you're doing is all wrong. You have to wait another 8 months, at least, maybe more, to start training.
At this rate, you'll have a fully trained dog before she's 10 months old!
And, she looks like she having too much fun as well. Show that dog whose boss!
Just not right....