Hard Setters
Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 8:34 pm
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Hunting Dog Training, Gun Dog Puppies, and Discussion
http://www.gundogforum.com/forum/
Well said.shags wrote:I understand looking for heat tolerance, but I'd never recommend a dog to anyone who wants one that he can knock the bejeezus out of and expect it to come back for more. Unless you're a psychopath and roughing dogs up is part of your illness, might be better to look for *trainability*. The kind of dog you show him what you want, and he does it, or tell him 'Don't do that any more' and he won't.
Thankfully....no, I do not know of any english setters that would fit that definition.Stoneface wrote:Does anyone know of any Setters as hard and tough as barbed wire? Dogs that get up in the morning looking to get shocked all to heck with an eCollar then go back for more and can stand 200-degree throbbing heat with a full coat. I'm exaggerating, but there has to be as least one bad "bleep" Setter in the world today.
Don't take this as me saying I fry my dogs and want a dog that can take it or anything else like that and please don't comment your point of views if you don't have an answer for my question. None of the, "It's stupid to want a hard Setter. It's better to have a dog that wants to listen to you." Replies.
Stoneface -Stoneface wrote:Ezzy, does it hurt to be so stupid? I was talking to a trainer/trialer the other day and he was telling me how he hates Setters because they're so "bleep" soft. If you want more of these soft dogs you can find a number of them on any rescue website because the owner handled them too hard with the collar. You keep on playing patty fingers with your hard-to-train dogs that can't take the lowest setting on an eCollar, but I want a harder dog than that who is just as biddable and can be trained no problem. I'm glad you're so old. We need your kind to die off and leave us alone.
And this so-called trainer wants people on here to recommend where to get a dog :roll: Great display of temperament and character.Stoneface wrote:Ezzy, does it hurt to be so stupid? I was talking to a trainer/trialer the other day and he was telling me how he hates Setters because they're so "bleep" soft. If you want more of these soft dogs you can find a number of them on any rescue website because the owner handled them too hard with the collar. You keep on playing patty fingers with your hard-to-train dogs that can't take the lowest setting on an eCollar, but I want a harder dog than that who is just as biddable and can be trained no problem. I'm glad you're so old. We need your kind to die off and leave us alone.
I am not sure if it hurts to be stupid or if it hurts because a few others are a few cards short. I think we are all aware that certain very popular breeds tend to be softer than others but luckily it doesn't show up as a problem in the finished dog. What it does say is different dogs require different methods of training which does throw some trainers that have trouble adjusting their methods to the dog instead of just blaming the dog for their own personal shortcomings. And it is a shame if those dogs end up n a rescue situation because of the trainers shortcomings.Stoneface wrote:Ezzy, does it hurt to be so stupid? I was talking to a trainer/trialer the other day and he was telling me how he hates Setters because they're so "bleep" soft. If you want more of these soft dogs you can find a number of them on any rescue website because the owner handled them too hard with the collar. You keep on playing patty fingers with your hard-to-train dogs that can't take the lowest setting on an eCollar, but I want a harder dog than that who is just as biddable and can be trained no problem. I'm glad you're so old. We need your kind to die off and leave us alone.
Nice post Ray. Won't even try to add to it.birddogger2 wrote:Stoneface -Stoneface wrote:Ezzy, does it hurt to be so stupid? I was talking to a trainer/trialer the other day and he was telling me how he hates Setters because they're so "bleep" soft. If you want more of these soft dogs you can find a number of them on any rescue website because the owner handled them too hard with the collar. You keep on playing patty fingers with your hard-to-train dogs that can't take the lowest setting on an eCollar, but I want a harder dog than that who is just as biddable and can be trained no problem. I'm glad you're so old. We need your kind to die off and leave us alone.
I would be VERY suspicious of the abilities of any trainer who would make the statement you said they made.
Soft dogs are NOT a problem to train...if they are biddable. Soft dogs are NOT a problem to train...if they possess a high level of drive and desire to find birds. And lastly and most importantly...
Soft dogs are NOT a problem to train if the trainer takes their time, works in a calm, gentle, positive manner.
Soft dogs...of ANY breed...can be a nightmare for a ham handed, short tempered, impatient individual to train.
If you have a soft dog that is smart, biddable and that has a ton of desire... all you may need to do for that dog is to figure out how to show it what you want it to do.
The problem is that sometimes you can get a dog that is soft but yet stubborn and not biddable. Not much you can do with that kind of dog. If the dog were smart, not biddable and tough as nails, You could lump on it, fry it with electricity and guess what??? You still wouldn't have much of a dog when all was said and done.
One of the biggest problems with setters(as opposed to pointers, for comparison) is that they tend to mature a little slower and take a little longer to get to where they need to be. If a trainer is in a hurry...that may not turn out well with a setter.
Setters also seem to need more human contact and interaction than pointers, to get the most out of them. A trainer that is used to pointers may not spend enough "quality" time with a setter to have it reach its potential.
All of the above is one man's opinion, and a pointer guy at that. Soooo, take it for what it is worth.
RayG
And yes... you CAN have a dog that is tough enough to dive into multiflora or greenbrier because that is where the birds are found... or will run and hunt on blown pads or in heat until it falls over on its nose... and still not tolerate Neanderthal handling methods.
There are different kinds of "tough".
It's too bad you fancy yourself a professional. I truly feel sorry for anyone that EVER would send you a dog. Seems to me I remember it was just a few years back you were a rank newbie begging for advice. Where did all of this remarkable knowledge evolve from?Stoneface wrote:Ezzy, does it hurt to be so stupid? I was talking to a trainer/trialer the other day and he was telling me how he hates Setters because they're so "bleep" soft. If you want more of these soft dogs you can find a number of them on any rescue website because the owner handled them too hard with the collar. You keep on playing patty fingers with your hard-to-train dogs that can't take the lowest setting on an eCollar, but I want a harder dog than that who is just as biddable and can be trained no problem. I'm glad you're so old. We need your kind to die off and leave us alone.
Rowdy is better with fund raisers. There is no question who the stupid one is in this deal. After reading all of this I wouldn't even send an ex wives dog to this person.gonehuntin' wrote:It's too bad you fancy yourself a professional. I truly feel sorry for anyone that EVER would send you a dog. Seems to me I remember it was just a few years back you were a rank newbie begging for advice. Where did all of this remarkable knowledge evolve from?Stoneface wrote:Ezzy, does it hurt to be so stupid? I was talking to a trainer/trialer the other day and he was telling me how he hates Setters because they're so "bleep" soft. If you want more of these soft dogs you can find a number of them on any rescue website because the owner handled them too hard with the collar. You keep on playing patty fingers with your hard-to-train dogs that can't take the lowest setting on an eCollar, but I want a harder dog than that who is just as biddable and can be trained no problem. I'm glad you're so old. We need your kind to die off and leave us alone.
Bet he was hoping everyone had forgotten that scam. Seems like his vision is fine now.mask wrote:Rowdy is better with fund raisers. There is no question who the stupid one is in this deal. After reading all of this I wouldn't even send an ex wives dog to this person.gonehuntin' wrote:It's too bad you fancy yourself a professional. I truly feel sorry for anyone that EVER would send you a dog. Seems to me I remember it was just a few years back you were a rank newbie begging for advice. Where did all of this remarkable knowledge evolve from?Stoneface wrote:Ezzy, does it hurt to be so stupid? I was talking to a trainer/trialer the other day and he was telling me how he hates Setters because they're so "bleep" soft. If you want more of these soft dogs you can find a number of them on any rescue website because the owner handled them too hard with the collar. You keep on playing patty fingers with your hard-to-train dogs that can't take the lowest setting on an eCollar, but I want a harder dog than that who is just as biddable and can be trained no problem. I'm glad you're so old. We need your kind to die off and leave us alone.
Wow . Personal attacks are not needed on here. Don't forget , you reap what you sow.Stoneface wrote:Ezzy, does it hurt to be so stupid? I was talking to a trainer/trialer the other day and he was telling me how he hates Setters because they're so "bleep" soft. If you want more of these soft dogs you can find a number of them on any rescue website because the owner handled them too hard with the collar. You keep on playing patty fingers with your hard-to-train dogs that can't take the lowest setting on an eCollar, but I want a harder dog than that who is just as biddable and can be trained no problem. I'm glad you're so old. We need your kind to die off and leave us alone.