Setter heat tolerance question.
- Stoneface
- Rank: 5X Champion
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Setter heat tolerance question.
I had a Pointer that loved the heat and hated the cold. I ran her in triple degree temperatures and she came home and laid in the sun without getting any water. She was just a freak.
1. Has anyone ever seen a Setter that comes anywhere near this?
2. Where did you see them at?
3. Who owned/owns them?
4. How were/are they bred?
1. Has anyone ever seen a Setter that comes anywhere near this?
2. Where did you see them at?
3. Who owned/owns them?
4. How were/are they bred?
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- Rank: Junior Hunter
- Posts: 76
- Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2015 1:18 pm
Re: Setter heat tolerance question.
My current setter is on the short coated side for a setter. From grouse trial lines. He is 42 lbs with very little fat, and although I did not road him, I did run him several times a week at a local training area in the summer and fall - he is in decent shape - not field trial shape but OK. Anything over 50 deg I see a noticeable fall off in performance.
From the seat of my pants I would say it would have taken 10 deg warmer to reduce my previous pointer's performance to the same degree, and she tended to be a bit on the porky side, but I spent about the same amount of time running her so similar level of fitness.
From the seat of my pants I would say it would have taken 10 deg warmer to reduce my previous pointer's performance to the same degree, and she tended to be a bit on the porky side, but I spent about the same amount of time running her so similar level of fitness.
Re: Setter heat tolerance question.
I have a Llewellyn that seems to take the heat or cold as good as a pointer or shorthair; she is Blizzard/ Bondue bread.
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- GDF Junkie
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Re: Setter heat tolerance question.
It was quite a few years back, but I clearly remember a young setter than Dr. Marion Brown ran at the Assunpink. It was in the mi-to upper eighties and that setter derby laid down a blistering race with all the snap, crackle and pop of a truckload of rice krispies. Heckuva young dog. Best setter I ever saw in the heat. It had no birdwork and others did so we could not place the dog, but I sure wanted to. I believe Doc Brown is still involved with trials.
I don't think it is a huge secret, but I was told that if you want a setter that can run in the heat, look to the west Texas and Oklahoma panhandle truck dogs and look into their shags. If they can't go in the heat, they don't make the cut on the guide strings.
RayG
I don't think it is a huge secret, but I was told that if you want a setter that can run in the heat, look to the west Texas and Oklahoma panhandle truck dogs and look into their shags. If they can't go in the heat, they don't make the cut on the guide strings.
RayG
Re: Setter heat tolerance question.
I've hunted my Setters with Pointers, GSPs and Brittanies on Quail on Texas Quail and South Dakota Pheasant for the last 8 years in 70 to 80 degree F Temps. Individual dogs varied substantially from one another in heat tolerance, but there were no noticeable differences attributable to Breed.
The biggest differences seemed to be associated with weight ( smaller dogs did better in the heat) , conditioning ( better conditioned dogs had more heat tolerance than less conditioned dogs, and high fat diets. ( Fat metabolizes more water than Protein or Carbs).
One of my Setters, a 43 pound male, direct son of Tekoa Mountain Sunrise, (http://www.tekoamountainsetters.com), with a haircut stayed with the best Pointers among the guide dogs in 80 degree weather. We also ran them in 90 degree weather, but only for 45 minutes at a time, cooled in water tanks for 15 minutes. Other Tekoa Mountain dogs that I know are equally heat tolerant, but are, as is my dog, very well conditioned and on the edge of being too thin, which I believe is a much more important factor than breed
My other Setter, a 55 pound male from Johnny Crockett/ Hicks Rising Sun lines.(Long Gone Setters) fades fast in 80 degree weather and would quit completely at 85 degrees.In 40 degree weather he could go for 4-6 hours, take a pee break and go again.
If your dog was run in 100+ degree weather, doesn't drink and lies in the sun, it's probably because he was confused/disoriented, dehydrated, and on the edge of heat/stroke/exhaustion.A rule of thumb used by many dog trainers down south is that if the ambient temperature when added to the humidity is greater than 150, you probably shouldn’t be running your dogs. Even then this rule only applies to well conditioned dogs.............
The biggest differences seemed to be associated with weight ( smaller dogs did better in the heat) , conditioning ( better conditioned dogs had more heat tolerance than less conditioned dogs, and high fat diets. ( Fat metabolizes more water than Protein or Carbs).
One of my Setters, a 43 pound male, direct son of Tekoa Mountain Sunrise, (http://www.tekoamountainsetters.com), with a haircut stayed with the best Pointers among the guide dogs in 80 degree weather. We also ran them in 90 degree weather, but only for 45 minutes at a time, cooled in water tanks for 15 minutes. Other Tekoa Mountain dogs that I know are equally heat tolerant, but are, as is my dog, very well conditioned and on the edge of being too thin, which I believe is a much more important factor than breed
My other Setter, a 55 pound male from Johnny Crockett/ Hicks Rising Sun lines.(Long Gone Setters) fades fast in 80 degree weather and would quit completely at 85 degrees.In 40 degree weather he could go for 4-6 hours, take a pee break and go again.
If your dog was run in 100+ degree weather, doesn't drink and lies in the sun, it's probably because he was confused/disoriented, dehydrated, and on the edge of heat/stroke/exhaustion.A rule of thumb used by many dog trainers down south is that if the ambient temperature when added to the humidity is greater than 150, you probably shouldn’t be running your dogs. Even then this rule only applies to well conditioned dogs.............
- bustingcover
- Rank: Senior Hunter
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Re: Setter heat tolerance question.
Interesting thing with this scenario was the two different climates those lines came from. One from the PNW and the much warmer weather year around performed better in the heat than the Long Gone dog. A coverdog line from New England that has to hold up in much colder weather.tekoa wrote:
One of my Setters, a 43 pound male, direct son of Tekoa Mountain Sunrise, (http://www.tekoamountainsetters.com), with a haircut stayed with the best Pointers among the guide dogs in 80 degree weather. We also ran them in 90 degree weather, but only for 45 minutes at a time, cooled in water tanks for 15 minutes. Other Tekoa Mountain dogs that I know are equally heat tolerant, but are, as is my dog, very well conditioned and on the edge of being too thin, which I believe is a much more important factor than breed
My other Setter, a 55 pound male from Johnny Crockett/ Hicks Rising Sun lines.(Long Gone Setters) fades fast in 80 degree weather and would quit completely at 85 degrees.In 40 degree weather he could go for 4-6 hours, take a pee break and go again.
Re: Setter heat tolerance question.
I have a Llewellin that fades in anything above 50 but runs for hours when it's cold. I notice a huge difference with him and temperature.
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Re: Setter heat tolerance question.
my setters cant take the heat like the one pointer i have .some of the setters do better than some of the others but nothing like the pointer so early morning i hunt my setters when it starts to warm up in early grouse season i hunt the pointer
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Re: Setter heat tolerance question.
bustingcover wrote:Interesting thing with this scenario was the two different climates those lines came from. One from the PNW and the much warmer weather year around performed better in the heat than the Long Gone dog. A coverdog line from New England that has to hold up in much colder weather.tekoa wrote:
One of my Setters, a 43 pound male, direct son of Tekoa Mountain Sunrise, (http://www.tekoamountainsetters.com), with a haircut stayed with the best Pointers among the guide dogs in 80 degree weather. We also ran them in 90 degree weather, but only for 45 minutes at a time, cooled in water tanks for 15 minutes. Other Tekoa Mountain dogs that I know are equally heat tolerant, but are, as is my dog, very well conditioned and on the edge of being too thin, which I believe is a much more important factor than breed
My other Setter, a 55 pound male from Johnny Crockett/ Hicks Rising Sun lines.(Long Gone Setters) fades fast in 80 degree weather and would quit completely at 85 degrees.In 40 degree weather he could go for 4-6 hours, take a pee break and go again.
I would agree there is a point that's too cold for dogs however when we are talking pointing dogs hunting the uplands I don't think there is much difference in the cold. As long as they stay moving they are fine. You can argue the setter with more hair is better insulated and I will argue right back that in the wet cold that dog is equally as wet as a short haired breed.
Let's not forget these dogs are inadvertently bred to run through it when their bodies say to stop. That's one of the qualities that makes a champion, they dig in and push until their body fails.
I would say the difference has to do with comformation. A line of dogs that bred to win in the woods is built a lot differently than one that bred to win on the prairie. Like mentioned above the size is what's giving them the heat tolerance.
- Stoneface
- Rank: 5X Champion
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- Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2007 10:33 pm
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Re: Setter heat tolerance question.
Ray, was the dog Tommy B?
Re: Setter heat tolerance question.
Had a pup I started last year out of T's gunner runner, Talmage Smedley's stuff which is line bred Tekoa Mountain Outrage. He ran well in the heat, but with that said if you hunt in warm weather get a pointer/ colder weather setters shine.
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- GDF Junkie
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Re: Setter heat tolerance question.
I don't think so, but honestly, I can't remember the dog's name. Doc Brown was out East visiting family and brought a trailer full of horses and dogs to play with. He seemed to be a very nice and very interesting gentleman.Stoneface wrote:Ray, was the dog Tommy B?
I am not a setter person, per se, but I liked watching his dogs. They could rock and roll. Unfortunately, I do not frequent the trials he does. Too far for me.
RayG
Re: Setter heat tolerance question.
I have seen a very large sample of the breed and I don’t think this trait or any other can be generalized for the breed. The variance across types is too great to use generalizations. There are also lines or Setters that operate at a much slower pace which of course does not demand nearly as much stamina or heat tolerance.
I watched Hytest Skyhawk (and all his littermates), Tekoa Mountain Patriot, and Jettsetter on the prairies. All three ran in 80+ degree temps with no problem. It was 90 the the 2nd time I saw Jetsetter. I saw Greg Sands Setter win the Montana Shooting Dog Championship when it was literally 100 degrees. Skydance Timely Tales did a nice job in that same trial and I had a female (walking CH) that I ran there even though I knew she probably would not run enough. She ran when it was in the high 80s and had 5 perfect covey finds and two singles for a total of seven finds. The last find was at 59 minutes.
BTW … Doc Brown ran a Setter in the brace before me and he took the heat just fine too. There were 6-8 other Setters that ran just fine too. That was the hottest trial I ever attended.
There are many other examples. It just requires due diligence and the willingness to either send the bitch wherever necessary or do an A/I breeding. We just did an A/I breeding to CH Islander and one of the reasons for going to him is his stamina and heat tolerance. We have done A/Is with several other dogs with great results. The A/I practices have improved. 10 or more years ago we just shipped the females. We produced Butch Cassidy by sending a Sunrise/Smith female all the way to Stan White in Florida to breed to White’s Symbol. Symbol was not real well know but he was a great bird dog that could really take the heat. Butch took R/U at the U.S. Prairie Chicken Championship when it was 87 with brutal humidity. We also got Berg’s Dixie Chick from Stan. She was similar breeding. Man, could she take the heat at she was an outstanding producer.
I watched Hytest Skyhawk (and all his littermates), Tekoa Mountain Patriot, and Jettsetter on the prairies. All three ran in 80+ degree temps with no problem. It was 90 the the 2nd time I saw Jetsetter. I saw Greg Sands Setter win the Montana Shooting Dog Championship when it was literally 100 degrees. Skydance Timely Tales did a nice job in that same trial and I had a female (walking CH) that I ran there even though I knew she probably would not run enough. She ran when it was in the high 80s and had 5 perfect covey finds and two singles for a total of seven finds. The last find was at 59 minutes.
BTW … Doc Brown ran a Setter in the brace before me and he took the heat just fine too. There were 6-8 other Setters that ran just fine too. That was the hottest trial I ever attended.
There are many other examples. It just requires due diligence and the willingness to either send the bitch wherever necessary or do an A/I breeding. We just did an A/I breeding to CH Islander and one of the reasons for going to him is his stamina and heat tolerance. We have done A/Is with several other dogs with great results. The A/I practices have improved. 10 or more years ago we just shipped the females. We produced Butch Cassidy by sending a Sunrise/Smith female all the way to Stan White in Florida to breed to White’s Symbol. Symbol was not real well know but he was a great bird dog that could really take the heat. Butch took R/U at the U.S. Prairie Chicken Championship when it was 87 with brutal humidity. We also got Berg’s Dixie Chick from Stan. She was similar breeding. Man, could she take the heat at she was an outstanding producer.
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Re: Setter heat tolerance question.
I had a 39 lb. female out of the Grouse Ridge Reroy line that could outlast the youngsters in the heat any day of the week even into her old age. Her light body weight and maybe as another here mentioned that grouse cover dog line? I never ran her with a pointer but it was a significant difference compared to other setters.