are Field Trialers afraid of wild birds?

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Re: are Field Trialers afraid of wild birds?

Post by Wa Chukar Hunter » Mon Dec 12, 2016 5:28 pm

I run all my trial dogs on wild birds - first in the summer for pheasants, sharp tail and some huns, and in the winter we run on wild birds - in fact I just placed 4 out of 4 placements with 3 dogs in juvenile stakes - 3rd, 2nd and two 1sts, all these dogs worked wild birds two weeks ago and are going again this weekend on quail (blues and bobwhite)

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Re: are Field Trialers afraid of wild birds?

Post by P&PGunsmith » Tue Dec 13, 2016 11:52 am

some of this has been really funny. i could imagine that if a guy was getting ready for a trial and did not want to take the chance of anything coming undone on a hunt, such as the original posters dogs not being broke. then maybe it makes more sense.
best part was that Doug posted pictures.

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Re: are Field Trialers afraid of wild birds?

Post by dan v » Tue Dec 13, 2016 6:35 pm

P&PGunsmith wrote:some of this has been really funny. i could imagine that if a guy was getting ready for a trial and did not want to take the chance of anything coming undone on a hunt, such as the original posters dogs not being broke. then maybe it makes more sense.
best part was that Doug posted pictures.
But really, what's Doc ever done except take some really great pictures? And how do we know that's really him? /s

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are Field Trialers afraid of wild birds?

Post by Shellottome » Tue Dec 13, 2016 7:11 pm

I really find this thread funny. I am a bit oakier than most but my dogs catch and find all kinds of game. Sometimes on the ranch they'll have a coon treed, once in a while I'll hear them barking and they'll have a hog bayed up. Sometimes locked point on a dang woodpecker pecking my house. Take them out pheasant hunting and they'll be stone cold frozen until they get to go retrieve their reward tail just a wagging. This kind of reminds me of happy Gilmore. Green jacket, blue jacket who gives a poop. I love my dogs and how gamey they are on all wildlife. I'd hate to own a dog that couldn't hunt both style of birds.


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Re: are Field Trialers afraid of wild birds?

Post by DGFavor » Tue Dec 13, 2016 10:39 pm

dan v wrote:
P&PGunsmith wrote:some of this has been really funny. i could imagine that if a guy was getting ready for a trial and did not want to take the chance of anything coming undone on a hunt, such as the original posters dogs not being broke. then maybe it makes more sense.
best part was that Doug posted pictures.
But really, what's Doc ever done except take some really great pictures? And how do we know that's really him? /s
:lol: :lol: Busted! From the real Favor film vault, the way his outings really go - inept dogs, inept gunning, inept videography. Sad really...his internet charades:
http://www.vimeo.com/112246736

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Re: are Field Trialers afraid of wild birds?

Post by QuillGordon » Wed Dec 14, 2016 8:15 am

Holy!
Let the little lady know she shouldn't drink and film ;-)

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Re: are Field Trialers afraid of wild birds?

Post by Sharon » Wed Dec 14, 2016 3:04 pm

Mercy. I need a gravol. :)

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Re: are Field Trialers afraid of wild birds?

Post by asc » Fri Dec 16, 2016 8:24 pm

I like this thread, good post from some of the older members and good pics too.

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Re: are Field Trialers afraid of wild birds?

Post by DeLo727 » Sun Dec 18, 2016 12:33 pm

I understand where you're going with this, it depends on what the ultimate goal for the owner is. Guys going after title love planted birds, its a more controllable situation. But I know plenty of guys who are heavy into trials and consider themselves hunter first and foremost, they train their dogs on wild birds as much as possible. There are a bunch of guys out there who are trailers first and hunters second. If I was one of those guys I would want planted birds above all.

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Re: are Field Trialers afraid of wild birds?

Post by Chukar12 » Sun Dec 18, 2016 3:57 pm

I am afraid of wild birds, wild women, Olivia Wilde.. etc

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Re: are Field Trialers afraid of wild birds?

Post by deseeker » Sun Dec 18, 2016 7:17 pm

Chukar12 wrote:I am afraid of wild birds, wild women, Olivia Wilde.. etc
:lol: :lol: :lol: Is that why your avatar is of you and your dog sitting alone on top of a mountain :?: :?:

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Re: are Field Trialers afraid of wild birds?

Post by jetjockey » Sun Dec 18, 2016 7:26 pm

DeLo727 wrote:I understand where you're going with this, it depends on what the ultimate goal for the owner is. Guys going after title love planted birds, its a more controllable situation. But I know plenty of guys who are heavy into trials and consider themselves hunter first and foremost, they train their dogs on wild birds as much as possible. There are a bunch of guys out there who are trailers first and hunters second. If I was one of those guys I would want planted birds above all.
My guess is those trial guys first win very few trials, and even less Championships.

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Re: are Field Trialers afraid of wild birds?

Post by JONOV » Tue Dec 20, 2016 10:14 am

Two thoughts...

Have you considered that its the hunter, not the dog? That the hunter doesn't want to take the chance at walking all afternoon and (gasp) not seeing a bird or only seeing a couple hens he can't shoot?

Second thought. This is completely anecdotal, with no basis in fact. It seems like a lot of mid level field trial dog owners, the ones who like the idea of it more than they like hunting and training dogs, etc, are very controlling, hands on, type A personalities, that don't like to be in situations out of their control. A canned hunt gives them more control over everything. People that actually get paid for it seem to be a little more laissez faire and less worried about it.

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Re: are Field Trialers afraid of wild birds?

Post by DeLo727 » Tue Dec 20, 2016 12:43 pm

jetjockey wrote:
DeLo727 wrote:I understand where you're going with this, it depends on what the ultimate goal for the owner is. Guys going after titles love planted birds, it's a more controllable situation. But I know plenty of guys who are heavy into trials and consider themselves hunters first and foremost, they train their dogs on wild birds as much as possible. There are a bunch of guys out there who are trailers first and hunters second. If I was one of those guys I would want planted birds above all.
My guess is those trial guys first win very few trials, and even less Championships.
I would agree with that statement and say further that it applies to most trialers. The guys who are legitimate dog people know the value of wild birds.

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Re: are Field Trialers afraid of wild birds?

Post by Brooks Carmichael » Tue Dec 20, 2016 5:24 pm

I have always hunted my Field Trial Dogs. I find that it makes them a better bird dog. My Trey (GSP) dog who is a two time GSPCA NFC and 2 time NFC runner up plus NGSPA NC runner up. Sorry for the bragging, I am just trying to show you, how it has made him a better Field trial dog. I hunt him all the time on foot and he also lives in the house in the off season. I have young dog (Jax) that I am hunting right now along with Trey and because of the wild birds Jax is hunting more and going to objectives with greater drive and speed. Today with both dogs I had several wild covey finds and I could not be happier.

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Re: are Field Trialers afraid of wild birds?

Post by ezzy333 » Tue Dec 20, 2016 5:35 pm

I always hunted my pups and have had several judges comment that they could tell they had been hunting.

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Re: are Field Trialers afraid of wild birds?

Post by Vision » Tue Dec 20, 2016 7:12 pm

Brooks Carmichael wrote: I hunt him all the time on foot
Come on Brooks. You mean to tell us you have an all age field trial dog that you hunt on foot? :D :D :D

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Re: are Field Trialers afraid of wild birds?

Post by dan v » Wed Dec 21, 2016 2:27 pm

Vision wrote:
Brooks Carmichael wrote: I hunt him all the time on foot
Come on Brooks. You mean to tell us you have an all age field trial dog that you hunt on foot? :D :D :D
Only when he's not trying to catch the horizon!..../sarc

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Re: are Field Trialers afraid of wild birds?

Post by Spyro » Thu Dec 22, 2016 6:11 pm

Vision wrote:
Brooks Carmichael wrote: I hunt him all the time on foot
Come on Brooks. You mean to tell us you have an all age field trial dog that you hunt on foot? :D :D :D
Brooks has one of THE all age shorthairs of the decade. Big, athletic and has all the tools. Throws a pretty good puppy as well.

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Re: are Field Trialers afraid of wild birds?

Post by ACooper » Fri Dec 23, 2016 9:05 pm

polmaise wrote:Wild pheasants will run ..and run ..and run before they will fly ..
Perhaps Your friends know more than you ?

So? What if they run?

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Re: are Field Trialers afraid of wild birds?

Post by RayGubernat » Sat Dec 24, 2016 8:09 am

ACooper wrote:
polmaise wrote:Wild pheasants will run ..and run ..and run before they will fly ..
Perhaps Your friends know more than you ?

So? What if they run?
Actually, that can set the stage for what will likely be one of the most awesome and memorable pieces of dog birdwork that is possible to witness.

Here's the scenario:

Dog that has stood there and watched a bird, or covey run out from under its point. When released, the dog does not trail the birds but runs flat out with its nose high, parallel and downwind, perhaps stopping and looking/listening... until the dog goes past the bird(s) and then turns in and back to cut the bird(s) off, stopping them, pinning them between itself and the handler/hunter and pointing.

If you have never seen it done, all I can say is that it will raise the hairs on the back of your neck. That, my friends, is a bird dog's birddog! If that happens at a trial, they will be writing and talking about it, for a looooong time.


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Re: are Field Trialers afraid of wild birds?

Post by DGFavor » Sat Dec 24, 2016 10:33 am

Here's the scenario:

Dog that has stood there and watched a bird, or covey run out from under its point. When released, the dog does not trail the birds but runs flat out with its nose high, parallel and downwind, perhaps stopping and looking/listening... until the dog goes past the bird(s) and then turns in and back to cut the bird(s) off, stopping them, pinning them between itself and the handler/hunter and pointing.

If you have never seen it done, all I can say is that it will raise the hairs on the back of your neck. That, my friends, is a bird dog's birddog! If that happens at a trial, they will be writing and talking about it, for a looooong time.
http://www.vimeo.com/190325118

Here's some clips of a group of trialers that meet specifically to test the dogs on wild birds:
http://www.vimeo.com/184084998

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Re: are Field Trialers afraid of wild birds?

Post by codym » Sat Dec 24, 2016 12:25 pm

DGFavor wrote:
Here's the scenario:

Dog that has stood there and watched a bird, or covey run out from under its point. When released, the dog does not trail the birds but runs flat out with its nose high, parallel and downwind, perhaps stopping and looking/listening... until the dog goes past the bird(s) and then turns in and back to cut the bird(s) off, stopping them, pinning them between itself and the handler/hunter and pointing.

If you have never seen it done, all I can say is that it will raise the hairs on the back of your neck. That, my friends, is a bird dog's birddog! If that happens at a trial, they will be writing and talking about it, for a looooong time.
http://www.vimeo.com/190325118

Here's some clips of a group of trialers that meet specifically to test the dogs on wild birds:
http://www.vimeo.com/184084998



Great piece of work. Nice dog.

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Re: are Field Trialers afraid of wild birds?

Post by SCT » Sat Dec 24, 2016 5:53 pm

And great grounds to field trial on!

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Re: are Field Trialers afraid of wild birds?

Post by IsThisHeaven? » Sun Dec 25, 2016 5:45 pm

DGFavor wrote:
Here's the scenario:

Dog that has stood there and watched a bird, or covey run out from under its point. When released, the dog does not trail the birds but runs flat out with its nose high, parallel and downwind, perhaps stopping and looking/listening... until the dog goes past the bird(s) and then turns in and back to cut the bird(s) off, stopping them, pinning them between itself and the handler/hunter and pointing.

If you have never seen it done, all I can say is that it will raise the hairs on the back of your neck. That, my friends, is a bird dog's birddog! If that happens at a trial, they will be writing and talking about it, for a looooong time.
http://www.vimeo.com/190325118

Here's some clips of a group of trialers that meet specifically to test the dogs on wild birds:
http://www.vimeo.com/184084998
I don't know much about pointing dogs but that was pretty cool

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Re: are Field Trialers afraid of wild birds?

Post by AAA Gundogs » Thu Dec 29, 2016 12:23 pm

Anybody hunting all age dogs letting them retrieve?

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Re: are Field Trialers afraid of wild birds?

Post by MTRookie76 » Thu Dec 29, 2016 2:42 pm

AAA Gundogs wrote:Anybody hunting all age dogs letting them retrieve?
That dog working the hillside at the end of Doc Favors video is my dog. He mostly gets run as a shooting dog but he does run in some AA stuff and holds his own. He likes to retrieve the birds I shoot and I have no problem letting him as long as he waits for me to release him.

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Re: are Field Trialers afraid of wild birds?

Post by Chukar12 » Fri Dec 30, 2016 8:05 am

I force fetch all of my dogs to retrieve. They all retrieve wild birds to hand. Professional trainers sometimes caution their clientele not to have dogs retrieve because folks aren't real consistent or timely.

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Re: are Field Trialers afraid of wild birds?

Post by Idylwyld » Tue Jan 03, 2017 10:57 pm

RayGubernat wrote: Actually, that can set the stage for what will likely be one of the most awesome and memorable pieces of dog birdwork that is possible to witness.

Here's the scenario:

Dog that has stood there and watched a bird, or covey run out from under its point. When released, the dog does not trail the birds but runs flat out with its nose high, parallel and downwind, perhaps stopping and looking/listening... until the dog goes past the bird(s) and then turns in and back to cut the bird(s) off, stopping them, pinning them between itself and the handler/hunter and pointing.

If you have never seen it done, all I can say is that it will raise the hairs on the back of your neck. That, my friends, is a bird dog's birddog! If that happens at a trial, they will be writing and talking about it, for a looooong time.
I have seen it. Ive got a 3 year old female who does it 30-40% of the time on blues when they run.
I am going to breed her either late this year or next. I do not know if that will throw to pups or not. I am going to see. I am keeping the whole litter to sort through.
It cant be taught. I wish I understood how to teach it.
I attribute it to her being run on blues a LOT. We had a few bad dry years and very few bobs, but there are always blues around.
Two questions.
1) Is it intelligence or learned behavior through exposure? I think its a combination of both.
2) How many field trial judges would actually recognize this as good bird work?

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Re: are Field Trialers afraid of wild birds?

Post by slistoe » Tue Jan 03, 2017 11:50 pm

Idylwyld wrote: 2) How many field trial judges would actually recognize this as good bird work?
Every trial judge I know will give credit for a stellar relocate.

Although uncommon, it is seen enough to be recognized in the AFTCA Guidelines to Field Trial Procedure and Judicial Practice.
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Re: are Field Trialers afraid of wild birds?

Post by Sharon » Wed Jan 04, 2017 3:08 pm

Reminds me of Shadow Oak Bo circling that covey and working them back towards the handler in the 2014 Championship. Even the handler wondered where Bo was going. :) Judge definitely liked it.

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Re: are Field Trialers afraid of wild birds?

Post by Idylwyld » Sun Jan 08, 2017 10:23 pm

Sharon wrote:Reminds me of Shadow Oak Bo circling that covey and working them back towards the handler in the 2014 Championship. Even the handler wondered where Bo was going. :) Judge definitely liked it.
First time she did it I wondered what was going on. I just pulled up my horse and watched. It was a down hill view. I had a nice view of the whole thing. It looked like she was going to bust the covey. Covey was only about 15 birds or so. She trailed em for a bit stop and point, relocate stop, then relocate again, then she backed out and went way around and pointed them. I rode down there, nice and easy, got down,flushed and blanked em. Should have shot one for her.
First time I have seen anything like it. I know I want more of it.

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Re: are Field Trialers afraid of wild birds?

Post by Sharon » Mon Jan 09, 2017 2:45 pm

pointerdog wrote:A couple of GSP buddies of mine keep on declining an invitation to go hunting for wild birds. One tells me that wild birds will mess his FT dog up. The other guy seems to fear wild birds and said he'll stick with preserve pheasants.

Scare'dy Cats or what's up with these clowns? Good buds but I like to razz 'em. This is a serious question, though

Remember, there are many different kinds of trials. Cover dog trials are only on wild birds. Google , "Cover Dog Forum"

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