Hunting "cabin"

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deke
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Hunting "cabin"

Post by deke » Mon Oct 31, 2016 12:00 pm

We are looking at buying some land and building a hunting cabin on it. Have any of you ever gone in with friends and bought land and built something. We are currently trying to find a piece of property in South Dakota, which is harder than it seems. Our thought is that we are going to buy the land out right, and then take out a loan to build a shop and then just take 4 payments each per year. The shop will most likely be 60x80, so we are thinking around $35,000 to build ( That's what it cost at home). I know we can't be the first group who has tried this, so i was trying to get some feedback to see if there are any pitfalls that i should be watching out for, or any advice on trying this for the first time. We are all in our mid twenties, all have good stable jobs, and all of us are new fathers.

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luvthemud
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Re: Hunting "cabin"

Post by luvthemud » Mon Oct 31, 2016 12:35 pm

Just my opinion, but I would find a lease opportunity to try out until you are financially able to buy it with just one other person. Things change over time and it can get messy with multiple parties.

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IANative
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Re: Hunting "cabin"

Post by IANative » Mon Oct 31, 2016 12:48 pm

One thing I've seen is folks incorporating living quarters into their barns and/or metal buildings. May help w/ the overall cost...

... but I would also agree w/ luvthemud- the more people involved, the more chance of unwanted drama.

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deke
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Re: Hunting "cabin"

Post by deke » Mon Oct 31, 2016 2:21 pm

luvthemud wrote:Just my opinion, but I would find a lease opportunity to try out until you are financially able to buy it with just one other person. Things change over time and it can get messy with multiple parties.

I see what you are saying, all three of us separately are financially able to buy the entire thing. We just don't see the point in all buying a place in the same town we hunt in every year together. This will be a no frills shop, one of us ( not me) likes to decorate stuff, his man cave at his house is awesome. I get a lot of free building supplies from the jobs that I do, so that part will be mine; supplying used building materials. The other guy..... Well he likes whiskey so he will stock the bar.

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deke
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Re: Hunting "cabin"

Post by deke » Mon Oct 31, 2016 2:24 pm

IANative wrote:One thing I've seen is folks incorporating living quarters into their barns and/or metal buildings. May help w/ the overall cost...

... but I would also agree w/ luvthemud- the more people involved, the more chance of unwanted drama.

We were going to look at houses but we cant find what we are looking for. When i built my house, i first built a shop that we stayed in for a year until the house was complete, It wasn't cozy but we made due. Now if this shop is built to be a hunting getaway I think it could be pretty cool.

Soignie
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Re: Hunting "cabin"

Post by Soignie » Mon Oct 31, 2016 3:14 pm

You are probably better off forming a corporation where each of you owns 25%, spell out financial obligations and responsibilities of the partners regarding purchase/taxes/insurance etc. No one knows what is going to happen 5 or 10 years down the road so better to avoid possible pitfalls rather than having to react to them later.

reba
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Re: Hunting "cabin"

Post by reba » Mon Oct 31, 2016 3:31 pm

DON'T DO IT!

This type of adventure never works out, unless there is an IRON CLAD legal contract. The contract will be so iron clad no one will sign it.

Start by listing the "what ifs" and start with death & divorce, lost my job, kids need teeth etc, etc.

Then sooner than later someone will be using it all the time with their friends and family:-( Not cleaning up and trashing the place.

The list gets real long.

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IANative
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Re: Hunting "cabin"

Post by IANative » Mon Oct 31, 2016 3:33 pm

Soignie wrote:No one knows what is going to happen 5 or 10 years down the road so...
I'll tell you what happens- divorces happen. Even to those of us who would never believe such a thing. A very strictly worded incorporation may help protect all those involved, but I doubt that even that would be ironclad. Anyway, enough doom & gloom...

Anyway, as I was saying, I've seen some nice living quarters incorporated into metal buildings. A friend of mine in TX had a luxury 5BR/3bath apartment built into the attic space above his 60x80 business and warehouse building. And you certainly don't need THAT kind of luxury in a hunting cabin.... at least I don't, anyway. ;) I wish I had pics to show you- you wouldn't believe it.

A taxidermist friend of mine in IL did the same thing in the Morton building that housed his taxidermy business. He built a small 1BR/1bath apartment in one end of it for those nights when he worked late and didn't feel like driving home.

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Sharon
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Re: Hunting "cabin"

Post by Sharon » Mon Oct 31, 2016 3:55 pm

Don't skimp on security features. These places get broken into more often than you think - from experience.

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deke
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Re: Hunting "cabin"

Post by deke » Mon Oct 31, 2016 4:23 pm

I get that one or all of us could get screwed in this deal, but we usually are there for only two weeks a year. We pay almost $2000 for a house while we are there, so in 7 years I would start coming out ahead. What if i put it as part of my LLC, that way if anyone gets a divorce it cant get touched? My wife and I have been talking about buying something there for a few years now, just recently the topic got brought up while we were sitting around playing pool at my buddies house; from his wife who asked why we don't just buy a house there, which kind of got the ball rolling a little faster. And we are 24 hour drive away, so no family or friends will be just stopping by. Although we talked about possibly renting it out to hunters that we have met and seem responsible.

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deke
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Re: Hunting "cabin"

Post by deke » Mon Oct 31, 2016 4:26 pm

Sharon wrote:Don't skimp on security features. These places get broken into more often than you think - from experience.
You should see my security set up at work, 18 cameras all in HD, that i can watch from anywhere. I take security very serious

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HUNT 24/7
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Re: Hunting "cabin"

Post by HUNT 24/7 » Mon Oct 31, 2016 7:29 pm

Probably be better off if 1 guy owns the place & have the other 2 friends pay a yearly lease or something.

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Re: Hunting "cabin"

Post by shags » Tue Nov 01, 2016 5:34 am

That's a big investment and a lot of hassle for 2 weeks a year.
From experience, I can tell you that circumstances change in ways you can't foresee, and all kinds of things happen that can mess up these kinds of deals. Some things are annoying, like your friends inviting people you think are jerks to the cabin, or the prissiest wife tags along and spends the whole time griping. Some things are serious, like your partners failing to live up to the bargain and sticking you with payments you can't afford. Your kids will get involved in activities and you'll have to choose between going to the cabin or his/her awards ceremony ( and if you don't think these baby years will fly by, think again). All sorts of things interfere with "your" time there. Friendships can turn into nightmares when money is involved.
When you're paying a loan and property taxes on a place you aren't using, it can become a burden.

Think about buying property and a cabin of your own, and renting it to your friends. You would be free to rent it to other folks if the friends' situations change and they didn't need it any more. The four of you might also consider buying properties that adjoin, and each putting in a cabin or camper pad, so you aren't tied to each other.

Security is a big issue. All the surveillance in the world won't help when you're hours away, and your place is low priority to the local sheriff. My neighbor to our out-of-state property has had his cabin broken into, burned up, and used as a meth lab. And that's with a friendly neighbor up the road who kind of keeps an eye on things. We only camp there, but spend a lot of time and money cleaning the trash that locals dump there - old appliances, tires, dead dogs, all sorts of fun stuff.

It's not all bad, but it's not all fun and good times either.

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Re: Hunting "cabin"

Post by cjhills » Tue Nov 01, 2016 6:21 am

shags wrote:That's a big investment and a lot of hassle for 2 weeks a year.
From experience, I can tell you that circumstances change in ways you can't foresee, and all kinds of things happen that can mess up these kinds of deals. Some things are annoying, like your friends inviting people you think are jerks to the cabin, or the prissiest wife tags along and spends the whole time griping. Some things are serious, like your partners failing to live up to the bargain and sticking you with payments you can't afford. Your kids will get involved in activities and you'll have to choose between going to the cabin or his/her awards ceremony ( and if you don't think these baby years will fly by, think again). All sorts of things interfere with "your" time there. Friendships can turn into nightmares when money is involved.
When you're paying a loan and property taxes on a place you aren't using, it can become a burden.

Think about buying property and a cabin of your own, and renting it to your friends. You would be free to rent it to other folks if the friends' situations change and they didn't need it any more. The four of you might also consider buying properties that adjoin, and each putting in a cabin or camper pad, so you aren't tied to each other.

Security is a big issue. All the surveillance in the world won't help when you're hours away, and your place is low priority to the local sheriff. My neighbor to our out-of-state property has had his cabin broken into, burned up, and used as a meth lab. And that's with a friendly neighbor up the road who kind of keeps an eye on things. We only camp there, but spend a lot of time and money cleaning the trash that locals dump there - old appliances, tires, dead dogs, all sorts of fun stuff.

It's not all bad, but it's not all fun and good times either.
This is a very good post.
having been there and done this, one of the bigger issues is that bird populations change and SD ain't what it once was.
We have land where we used to see hundreds of birds that I just hunted four days and got four roosters. They may come back but maybe not.
The kids and grand kids end up wanting to go where the bird populations are better and you end up stuck with a property nobody wants. If you keep it long enough it will likely appreciate, but in the meantime you can hunt a couple times a year where ever you want to for a lot less money and most people probably would not choose the bird hunting areas of SD for a family vacation.......................Cj

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Re: Hunting "cabin"

Post by oregon woodsmoke » Wed Nov 02, 2016 1:28 pm

If you want it, you buy it all by yourself. Then, if you want, you can invite your friends to use the place as your guest.

I suggest a sewer system and an RV. Pull the rv back and forth and then there isn't much there to steal when no one is there.

Fence along the road and have good solid gates to discourage garbage dumping.

If you own it, you can put a lot of effort into improving habitat to increase the bird population. Just be aware that in some areas, lots of hunters have no respect for fences and no tresspassing signs.

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Re: Hunting "cabin"

Post by Jared77 » Wed Nov 02, 2016 4:14 pm

Why not just buy an RV and go where you want and the numbers are? SD one year, ND another or Iowa, Kansas. That also opens up lots of options too.....maybe a trip to the desert for quail? Maybe head to the northeast for grouse? Yes it's paid for itself in 7 years but lot can happen in 7 years as many have pointed out.

I'd rather have the options of something portable that I could use beyond just pheasant hunting for a few weeks a year that's otherwise sitting vacant. Plus who wants to deal with maintaining a place and property when you're could and will want to be out chasing Ringnecks. Unless you own enough property to improve it, really it's just a place to sleep.

That's just me though.

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Re: Hunting "cabin"

Post by luvthemud » Wed Nov 02, 2016 5:44 pm

When I was mid 20s I was up north every weekend. Was great...had a nice house/cabin so we used it a lot...then it happened! My daughter turned 5 and started becoming involved in after school activities and developing a social life. House/cabin got sold because when a place isn't used, problems arise. Became a liability more than an asset. I still own some acreage that I visit a few times a year, but that will probably be sold too within a year.

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Re: Hunting "cabin"

Post by MSU Aggie » Wed Nov 02, 2016 6:43 pm

In reality your better off to find a house in a nearby small town to buy and make nice with local farmers. Most towns have a few houses that are cheap to buy, some repairs may be needed, they are on city utility's and are patrolled by police. We have a hay shed that isn't close to the home place that is constantly vandalized, broken into, or used by high schoolers for things mom and dad's don't want to know about. All of this is with us being there 3 or 4 days a week.

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Re: Hunting "cabin"

Post by AAA Gundogs » Fri Nov 04, 2016 10:30 pm

deke wrote:We are looking at buying some land and building a hunting cabin on it. Have any of you ever gone in with friends and bought land and built something. We are currently trying to find a piece of property in South Dakota, which is harder than it seems. Our thought is that we are going to buy the land out right, and then take out a loan to build a shop and then just take 4 payments each per year. The shop will most likely be 60x80, so we are thinking around $35,000 to build ( That's what it cost at home). I know we can't be the first group who has tried this, so i was trying to get some feedback to see if there are any pitfalls that i should be watching out for, or any advice on trying this for the first time. We are all in our mid twenties, all have good stable jobs, and all of us are new fathers.

My investment group buys ranches and farms. We rarely use S or C corps. We frequently use LLCs and LLPs often with irrevocable trusts as members.

However, those are revenue producing properties. I would never enter into a multiple partner purchase on a recreational property. It's easy for someone to justify dumping a nonrevenue property at any sign of financial distress.

I'd either purchase a revenue producing property and hunt it or I'd lease hunting rights to a property. You don't increase debt load for playthings.

Frankly, my best advice is to buy revenue generating property. You are young with a young family. Try to get one per year. By the time that you're 50 and the kids are done with college, not only will you have already hunted everything and everywhere you've wanted to hunt but you'll be retiring.

"Good jobs" are fine but multiple revenue streams is freedom. I hunted 16 weeks last year.
Last edited by AAA Gundogs on Fri Nov 04, 2016 10:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Hunting "cabin"

Post by AAA Gundogs » Fri Nov 04, 2016 10:45 pm

deke wrote:
Sharon wrote:Don't skimp on security features. These places get broken into more often than you think - from experience.
You should see my security set up at work, 18 cameras all in HD, that i can watch from anywhere. I take security very serious
I learned real quick to keep stuff that you don't want stolen or vandalized some place that has 24/7/365 occupancy.

For example, I have an income property that i lease to a farmer but part of it is setup as a duck club. I keep 2 shipping containers with all the equipment for the club on my leasee' s year around residence because unattended barns, sheds, etc get broken into.

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deke
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Re: Hunting "cabin"

Post by deke » Tue Nov 08, 2016 11:42 am

AAA Gundogs wrote:
deke wrote:We are looking at buying some land and building a hunting cabin on it. Have any of you ever gone in with friends and bought land and built something. We are currently trying to find a piece of property in South Dakota, which is harder than it seems. Our thought is that we are going to buy the land out right, and then take out a loan to build a shop and then just take 4 payments each per year. The shop will most likely be 60x80, so we are thinking around $35,000 to build ( That's what it cost at home). I know we can't be the first group who has tried this, so i was trying to get some feedback to see if there are any pitfalls that i should be watching out for, or any advice on trying this for the first time. We are all in our mid twenties, all have good stable jobs, and all of us are new fathers.

My investment group buys ranches and farms. We rarely use S or C corps. We frequently use LLCs and LLPs often with irrevocable trusts as members.

However, those are revenue producing properties. I would never enter into a multiple partner purchase on a recreational property. It's easy for someone to justify dumping a nonrevenue property at any sign of financial distress.

I'd either purchase a revenue producing property and hunt it or I'd lease hunting rights to a property. You don't increase debt load for playthings.

Frankly, my best advice is to buy revenue generating property. You are young with a young family. Try to get one per year. By the time that you're 50 and the kids are done with college, not only will you have already hunted everything and everywhere you've wanted to hunt but you'll be retiring.

"Good jobs" are fine but multiple revenue streams is freedom. I hunted 16 weeks last year.

Now that I can agree with, the most financially free people I know have multiple investment properties. And I am currently working my way towards that.

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Re: Hunting "cabin"

Post by DougB » Sat Nov 12, 2016 4:04 pm

You are talking real estate over time. Talk to a lawyer before any money gets involved. It can get messy if not set up properly from the get go. Somebody dies-what happens to his share. Do his 6 kids get small shares of his third, or does it have to all get sold to settle his estate, or do you have 6 kids and their buddies all showing up for opening day?
You want it in writing.

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