Gun Dog Forum

He's 9 months old, and almost as muscular as a lab up front...

I think this is good for hunting.... I don't to show stuff .

Spot

Generally speaking, it is not the size of the dog which determines whether or not it will hunt well. 50 pounds has nothing to do with it. Although, I will agree with one thing: most likely not a show dog.

Nothing wrong with a 50 lb. male Brittany as long as the dog isn't over weight and still has good stamina. I had a 50 lb. male several years back that was one of the best dogs I've owned. He was a muscular and solid dog. Here's a pic of him in his prime.

50lb Brittany is not good for the breed. I wouldn't suggest studding him out. At 9 months old he is probably gonna get bigger. I wouldn't say that is normal. Is he fat and out of shape?

He's not fat, but I haven't run him as hard as I would like.

He's solid as a rock

AKC says the breed standard is 17.5 to 20.5 inches from the ground to the highest point of the shoulder and 30-40 lbs. Personally, I don't mind a little bit larger Brittany, especially for the pheasant hunting I do. In fact I much prefer it to the little 20-30 lb. dogs. My female in tip top condition will go 38-40 lbs. But some of this can be personal preference and of course size should be considered in any breeding program so we aren't developing dogs way outside the breed standard, large or small. I know someone that just had pups out of a very small female (20-25 lbs. and under 17.5"). I'm not sure that she should have been bred but she has a fantastic pedigree on both sides.

My boy is on the bigger side. He is 4 years old, stands at 21.5" and weighs 43lbs but is not currently in season shape. Because of his size good breeders would not take him in their breeding program. I love his size but would like a female closer to 17.5" tall and 30lbs.

MGIII wrote:My boy is on the bigger side. He is 4 years old, stands at 21.5" and weighs 43lbs but is not currently in season shape. Because of his size good breeders would not take him in their breeding program. I love his size but would like a female closer to 17.5" tall and 30lbs.

In my opinion, any dog that does not conform to the breed standard in any way should never be bred. It is fine to use them and enjoy but if you like a breed then it is your responsibility to keep it and not change it. There a4re just way too many good dog that there is no need to use one that isn't what the standard calls for.

If we toss out every dog that is over sized we would be tossing out some good dogs Spanish corral Sundance kid maxwell blew by you and there are dogs that have Gurren show titles while young that when they matured were out of standard by a little bit
One has to look at the performance of a dog as if we just toss out every dog that doesn't fit some standard we toss out all the genetics that made that dog which when you lock a breed which you do when you register them then what gene pool you G Ave when you lock them that is it that is all the genetics you have to work with
No matter what any of us think we are all line breeding once you establish a breed you may have to go back many generations but if you go back far enough on all the dogs in the pedigree you may find the gene pool is smaller then you think this includes bottlenecking the gene pool with.popular sires
So back to the post a 50 lb Brittany generally this for the ie breed standard is not the greatest tobreed to the heavy bone to large in size but how is he in the field is what he brings to the plate out weigh what he may not bring if this is the case then look to the female make sure what she brings on the good stuff is the same but don't add the same seasoning she should be strong in the breeding where he is weak so again back to the post again
Is he to big yes for the standard which would only get you kicked out of the show ring
You can still hunt
Field trial hunt test rally agility barn hunt eto
Next questions I have
What wereally the parents like
What did you feed
Has he been altered

Sometimes it is environment that can influence growing also for example some of the European breeds that are sent here with in a generation or 2 are now I anger then their European counterparts. They are attributing most of it to nutrition

Depends upon whether expectations are being met....all dog owners are far from the same and do not always share any where close to the same requirements afield for their dogs....aside from message board claims, of course.
The dog's run also matters...some pound, some run light.....some terrain is forgiving to bulk and some, is not.
Blanketing that a bulked-up out-of-character lad of 50# is okie-dokie is silly.

Additionally, Good or Bad...can be tied to Time...9 months is pretty early.
Weight out of the norm can catch up to even good dogs.
Make a friend of your vet would be my advice.

kninebirddog wrote:If we toss out every dog that is over sized we would be tossing out some good dogs Spanish corral Sundance kid maxwell blew by you and there are dogs that have Gurren show titles while young that when they matured were out of standard by a little bit
One has to look at the performance of a dog as if we just toss out every dog that doesn't fit some standard we toss out all the genetics that made that dog which when you lock a breed which you do when you register them then what gene pool you G Ave when you lock them that is it that is all the genetics you have to work with
No matter what any of us think we are all line breeding once you establish a breed you may have to go back many generations but if you go back far enough on all the dogs in the pedigree you may find the gene pool is smaller then you think this includes bottlenecking the gene pool with.popular sires
So back to the post a 50 lb Brittany generally this for the ie breed standard is not the greatest tobreed to the heavy bone to large in size but how is he in the field is what he brings to the plate out weigh what he may not bring if this is the case then look to the female make sure what she brings on the good stuff is the same but don't add the same seasoning she should be strong in the breeding where he is weak so again back to the post again
Is he to big yes for the standard which would only get you kicked out of the show ring
You can still hunt
Field trial hunt test rally agility barn hunt eto
Next questions I have
What wereally the parents like
What did you feed
Has he been altered

Sometimes it is environment that can influence growing also for example some of the European breeds that are sent here with in a generation or 2 are now I anger then their European counterparts. They are attributing most of it to nutrition

Maxwells' Blew By You was the biggest running brittany I have ever judged - leggy SOB that is for certain.

We have a brittany that I would bet is near 50 lbs and over two years old and I have not even started roading him yet - I am guessing when we get done with summer camp he will be near 50 lbs and muscled like a tank

ezzy333 wrote:

MGIII wrote:My boy is on the bigger side. He is 4 years old, stands at 21.5" and weighs 43lbs but is not currently in season shape. Because of his size good breeders would not take him in their breeding program. I love his size but would like a female closer to 17.5" tall and 30lbs.

In my opinion, any dog that does not conform to the breed standard in any way should never be bred. It is fine to use them and enjoy but if you like a breed then it is your responsibility to keep it and not change it. There a4re just way too many good dog that there is no need to use one that isn't what the standard calls for.

Like k nine said

Guys I'm not a breeder, contextually wanted feedback on running the dog.

I hunt in Kansas and with the lack of quail in the last decade I'm fine with a bigger Brittany (nI think). As long as he's a happy loving smuck, that enjoys the heck out of hunting we are perfect together.

I did wonder how guys felt about over breed standard dogs, I got it... Personally, I'm good with an oversized Brit, now mind you an oversized lab would suck. I'm really looking forward to having him clobber some bigger birds I drop, I may even try geese ! But for the most part pheasant is the 90% of the time bird here.

I'll fix him this winter when he hits 12 to 14 months, right now it's just fun watching him muscles develop. Maybe the best thing of all, even though he his rock solid and wired to hit what ever it is he's after, he's still a Brittany so it's easy to get him to lighten up and be a bit softer, and kick it up when he needs too. Very well balanced nature in this one.

Doesn't matter what we think most important are you happy with your dog does he perform to your expectations that's what the most important

kninebirddog wrote:Doesn't matter what we think most important are you happy with your dog does he perform to your expectations that's what the most important

That is important but if we want to continue to have different breeds with different looks and characteristics then we have to have a standard and breeders who understand and conform to it. Otherwise, lets just forget about breeds and we can all justify our breeding to anything if it makes you happy. I think we con easily justify the importance of the breeders of the past that bred dogs that met the breed standard so that we still have Pointer's, Setter's, Spaniel's, GSP's GWP's, Brittany's, and all of the other breeds.

I grew up with purebred livestock of many kinds and though our Jersey cows were smaller and didn't give any where near as much milk as a Holstein, we never considered breeding out of the breed standard, since there were also advantages in having a smaller breed that had other good qualities. The same goes for all of our other heritage breeds that are still important in the overall health of our different species. There is no quicker way to lose a gene pool than to breed whatever makes you happy as your only qualification. There are many breeds for a reason and it is up to us to continue to keep them viable and pure if our kids and grandkids are to be able to enjoy all of the dogs that our ancestors gave to us. You can not improve a breed by ignoring what the breed qualifications are and that is why there are standards or as they are called in most fields, blueprints for you to follow if you are going to breed.

No need to worry Spotshooter i have a male Brit that is 58 lbs.He can run all day and retrieves to hand. Neither parents were anywhere near 58lbs.In fact he looks like a brother of your dog.Great disposition,biddable,good in the house.Now my little 30lb female thats another story!!!!

If we didn't breed dogs outside the standard Crow's Little Joe never would have been breed.

Look at the placements by his offspring, from NSTRA to AA.

displaced_texan wrote:If we didn't breed dogs outside the standard Crow's Little Joe never would have been breed.

Look at the placements by his offspring, from NSTRA to AA.

Exactly. These are bird dogs. Brittanys are on the verge of splitting as it is. When they breed simply for looks we will see show dogs with the ridiculously long feathers like other breeds, that are useless in the field with no bird drive. With less and less wild birds, we need dogs that run bigger and bigger to find birds. We need to breed bird dogs for current bird hunting situations. If we don't, what will be the point of owning certain breeds?

How was Crow's Little Joe outside the breed standard?

English setters in the AKC are pretty dogs but I probably would not own a "dual" english setter - not athletic enough for me - they have a tendency to run slow and lopey to me.

Wa Chukar Hunter wrote:How was Crow's Little Joe outside the breed standard?

English setters in the AKC are pretty dogs but I probably would not own a "dual" english setter - not athletic enough for me - they have a tendency to run slow and lopey to me.

Undersized. Same as at least one of his notable predecessors.

displaced_texan wrote:If we didn't breed dogs outside the standard Crow's Little Joe never would have been breed.

Look at the placements by his offspring, from NSTRA to AA.

I would agree to some extend. Look at the Brittany Nolan's Last Bullet (Buddy) a 32X NSTRA champion and has sired many excellent dogs. Buddy was undersized as well as a lot of his offspring. However, I also think we need to attempt to maintain the breed standard to some degree so we don't end up with 20 lb. and 60 lb. Brittanys. Just my 2 cents.

Wa Chukar Hunter wrote:English setters in the AKC are pretty dogs but I probably would not own a "dual" english setter - not athletic enough for me - they have a tendency to run slow and lopey to me.

Happily for many dogs, not everyone finds the same conditions afield.
It always is of great value tho to discover what any one dog owner prefers.

Dakotazeb wrote:

displaced_texan wrote:If we didn't breed dogs outside the standard Crow's Little Joe never would have been breed.

Look at the placements by his offspring, from NSTRA to AA.

I would agree to some extend. Look at the Brittany Nolan's Last Bullet (Buddy) a 32X NSTRA champion and has sired many excellent dogs. Buddy was undersized as well as a lot of his offspring. However, I also think we need to attempt to maintain the breed standard to some degree so we don't end up with 20 lb. and 60 lb. Brittanys. Just my 2 cents.

I never knew Buddy was undersized. He sure looked OK the times I saw him. I liked the fact that he was a smaller size than many as the tendency has been for the dogs to get too big. I have always found the smaller dogs have more stamina as they have less weight to carry and seems they get through heavy cover easier. Bigger dogs are more powerful but just can't go as long. That is pretty much the same pattern as other animals.

ezzy333 wrote:

Dakotazeb wrote:

displaced_texan wrote:If we didn't breed dogs outside the standard Crow's Little Joe never would have been breed.

Look at the placements by his offspring, from NSTRA to AA.

I would agree to some extend. Look at the Brittany Nolan's Last Bullet (Buddy) a 32X NSTRA champion and has sired many excellent dogs. Buddy was undersized as well as a lot of his offspring. However, I also think we need to attempt to maintain the breed standard to some degree so we don't end up with 20 lb. and 60 lb. Brittanys. Just my 2 cents.

I never knew Buddy was undersized. He sure looked OK the times I saw him. I liked the fact that he was a smaller size than many as the tendency has been for the dogs to get too big. I have always found the smaller dogs have more stamina as they have less weight to carry and seems they get through heavy cover easier. Bigger dogs are more powerful but just can't go as long. That is pretty much the same pattern as other animals.

I prefer smaller dogs for that reason. The dog in my avatar is well under 40# and I haven't needed him to do anything he couldn't.

ezzy333 wrote:

Dakotazeb wrote:

displaced_texan wrote:If we didn't breed dogs outside the standard Crow's Little Joe never would have been breed.

Look at the placements by his offspring, from NSTRA to AA.

I would agree to some extend. Look at the Brittany Nolan's Last Bullet (Buddy) a 32X NSTRA champion and has sired many excellent dogs. Buddy was undersized as well as a lot of his offspring. However, I also think we need to attempt to maintain the breed standard to some degree so we don't end up with 20 lb. and 60 lb. Brittanys. Just my 2 cents.

I never knew Buddy was undersized. He sure looked OK the times I saw him. I liked the fact that he was a smaller size than many as the tendency has been for the dogs to get too big. I have always found the smaller dogs have more stamina as they have less weight to carry and seems they get through heavy cover easier. Bigger dogs are more powerful but just can't go as long. That is pretty much the same pattern as other animals.

Don't tell that to the dogs that win at Ames, and the last several Brittany NFC's. The smaller dogs are great, but in tough muddy conditions, they won't stand up to ththe bigger dogs with longer strides. I know, I've got a small Brit, and I know her limitations.

Dakotazeb wrote:

displaced_texan wrote:If we didn't breed dogs outside the standard Crow's Little Joe never would have been breed.

Look at the placements by his offspring, from NSTRA to AA.

I would agree to some extend. Look at the Brittany Nolan's Last Bullet (Buddy) a 32X NSTRA champion and has sired many excellent dogs. Buddy was undersized as well as a lot of his offspring. However, I also think we need to attempt to maintain the breed standard to some degree so we don't end up with 20 lb. and 60 lb. Brittanys. Just my 2 cents.

There was Brittany's from buddy that were over sized and I would say much of them were in standard. Buddy himself was more at the bottom of standard he wasn't that small of a dog.

I have seen many dogs out of standard that were from show lines

To me I want bird dogspecies so if it wants to have a biscuit over a bird it isn't what I want on my program and I do believe those that have got pups from me like what they are getting

kninebirddog wrote:

Dakotazeb wrote:

displaced_texan wrote:If we didn't breed dogs outside the standard Crow's Little Joe never would have been breed.

Look at the placements by his offspring, from NSTRA to AA.

I would agree to some extend. Look at the Brittany Nolan's Last Bullet (Buddy) a 32X NSTRA champion and has sired many excellent dogs. Buddy was undersized as well as a lot of his offspring. However, I also think we need to attempt to maintain the breed standard to some degree so we don't end up with 20 lb. and 60 lb. Brittanys. Just my 2 cents.

There was Brittany's from buddy that were over sized and I would say much of them were in standard. Buddy himself was more at the bottom of standard he wasn't that small of a dog.

I have seen many dogs out of standard that were from show lines

To me I want bird dogspecies so if it wants to have a biscuit over a bird it isn't what I want on my program and I do believe those that have got pups from me like what they are getting

The problem with breeding outside of the standard is that it doesn't end with just their pups. I have two smaller type Britts that still produce oversize male pups occasionally. It comes from the females side back several generations, when a lot of the field trial people were breeding oversize. This is not uncommon but sure hurts the people who are wanting a Dual type pup. I have taken several back over the years and it is impossible to know when it will end. Seems a shame when we can't follow the rules and someone down the road pays the price, especially today when we have such an abundance or great Dual genetics in our breed.

displaced_texan wrote:

Wa Chukar Hunter wrote:How was Crow's Little Joe outside the breed standard?

English setters in the AKC are pretty dogs but I probably would not own a "dual" english setter - not athletic enough for me - they have a tendency to run slow and lopey to me.

Undersized. Same as at least one of his notable predecessors.

Hmmm did not know the FDSB had a breed standard, learned something new today.

kninebirddog wrote:

Dakotazeb wrote:

displaced_texan wrote:If we didn't breed dogs outside the standard Crow's Little Joe never would have been breed.

Look at the placements by his offspring, from NSTRA to AA.

I would agree to some extend. Look at the Brittany Nolan's Last Bullet (Buddy) a 32X NSTRA champion and has sired many excellent dogs. Buddy was undersized as well as a lot of his offspring. However, I also think we need to attempt to maintain the breed standard to some degree so we don't end up with 20 lb. and 60 lb. Brittanys. Just my 2 cents.

To me I want bird dogspecies so if it wants to have a biscuit over a bird it isn't what I want on my program and I do believe those that have got pups from me like what they are getting

I can agree with that.

Wa Chukar Hunter wrote:

displaced_texan wrote:

Wa Chukar Hunter wrote:How was Crow's Little Joe outside the breed standard?

English setters in the AKC are pretty dogs but I probably would not own a "dual" english setter - not athletic enough for me - they have a tendency to run slow and lopey to me.

Undersized. Same as at least one of his notable predecessors.

Hmmm did not know the FDSB had a breed standard, learned something new today.

FDSB &AKC are stub books and are not involved with setting standard for any breed. The breed clubs set the standards.

ezzy333 wrote:

Wa Chukar Hunter wrote:
FDSB &AKC are stub books and are not involved with setting standard for any breed. The breed clubs set the standards.

FDSB doesn't need to set a standard. The dogs with the best build, size, gates, etc, win. It's really that easy. At the end of the day, these are bird dogs, and hunting dogs. How they look in the ring had no bearing on their original breeding or the
intent of the dogs. If we want to keep "breed standards", set up trials that mimick the original reason the dogs were developed in the first place, and breed to the dogs that win those trials. For Brits, that would include running fur, not being seen when pointing, and natural retrieve. Not breeding to a dog because it doesn't look perfect in a show ring was certainly not the intent the people who developed the breed had in mind. These are hunting dogs.