Gun Dog Forum

I have a question about snakeproofing a birddog. I don't have issues around here with rattlesnakes, but we do have plenty of copperheads and water moccasins. If a dog is proofed on rattlesnakes, does that carry over to other species or do they have a different scent that the dog would not associate with the proofing. Also, is a vaccine available for the non rattlesnake species that I deal with around here. Sorry for all the questions I just was trying to cover my bases if possible.
Keith

No good vaccines exist for the other species. Luckily, they're generally not as life threatening as the rattlesnakes. Snake avoidance training will certainly help avoid a dangerous encounter.

Snake Proofing or the Rattlesnake Avoidance training method involves a dog, a shock collar and a rattlesnake.

If a dog approaches a snake the trainer stimulates the dog. The dog sings an unhappy tune or does a back flip.

I took one of my dogs for a refresher course. Several rattle snakes had been placed in the field. She caught the scent of the snakes, turned around and ran back to the truck. Very smart dog.

I bought my first electronic training collar to stop my dogs from running livestock. My verbal command is "NO SHEEP" without regard to the type of livestock. I use the same command on deer, antelope, SNAKE, etc.

Back to snakes. The real problem with running dogs is that they might run over the top of a snake, get bit and you will not know it.

I hope this information gives you some ideas.

I do vaccine my dogs; however the vaccine does not work on all types of rattlesnakes.

Thanks for the information

There is no science-based evidence that the so-called "vaccine" has any effacacy on rattlesnake bites. To the contrary, dogs that has gotten the shots require exactly the same emergency treatments with the same odds of recovery as dogs not given the shots. There is zero advantage to the shots.

Leading veterinary schools recommend against it, because it just doesn't work.

Aversion therapy "works," but a dog that lives in rattle snake country that become unglued every time it smells a snake, and for example runs back to a truck in fear, isn't much use in the field.

Bill

Have a friend in Big Bend in west TX and his vet will argue that.
He see hundreds of snake bites every single year on local dogs and pets. Those that have taken the vaccine come through a lot faster and easier and less medication then those that have not had the vaccine.

Spy Car wrote:There is no science-based evidence that the so-called "vaccine" has any effacacy on rattlesnake bites. To the contrary, dogs that has gotten the shots require exactly the same emergency treatments with the same odds of recovery as dogs not given the shots. There is zero advantage to the shots.

Leading veterinary schools recommend against it, because it just doesn't work.

Aversion therapy "works," but a dog that lives in rattle snake country that become unglued every time it smells a snake, and for example runs back to a truck in fear, isn't much use in the field.

Bill

Great point on breaking back to the rig when they wind a snake Bill.
In the lower Sierras and adjoining foothills where I hunt my dogs often I could never get though a hunt.
The snakes are just to thick my female GSP got hit last fall , her leg was swollen pretty bad and she laid low for a while but made a full recovery and she's doing great.

Legband wrote:

Spy Car wrote:There is no science-based evidence that the so-called "vaccine" has any effacacy on rattlesnake bites. To the contrary, dogs that has gotten the shots require exactly the same emergency treatments with the same odds of recovery as dogs not given the shots. There is zero advantage to the shots.

Leading veterinary schools recommend against it, because it just doesn't work.

Aversion therapy "works," but a dog that lives in rattle snake country that become unglued every time it smells a snake, and for example runs back to a truck in fear, isn't much use in the field.

Bill

Great point on breaking back to the rig when they wind a snake Bill.
In the lower Sierras and adjoining foothills where I hunt my dogs often I could never get though a hunt.
The snakes are just to thick my female GSP got hit last fall , her leg was swollen pretty bad and she laid low for a while but made a full recovery and she's doing great.

I agree with Bill on running to the truck but in all my years I have never seen that happen and have never heard any of my friends say they have had that problem. That just isn't the way the normal dog responds.

My dog was snake proofed twice. Today in training she was going into an area with mouse holes in the ground. Something spooked her totally as she veered away from the area. I tried to bring her back later down wind of the area and again she would have nothing to do with it. There must have been a buzz tail in one of them holes because usually she is a mouser. Last week she alerted me of a king snake in my yard but stayed way clear of it and was happy to get into the house to her safe place. She may have seen the king snake out in the open because I have seen her almost step on gopher snakes in the yard and run right past them.

From what I've seen in my dogs with different snakes, a snakes a snake whether it's a garter snake or copper head they react the same. I have not done snake proofing as I seen no need. I do the vaccine.

Living in Missouri we have the risk of all types of snakes, rattlers, copperheads, and water moccasins... Our trainer uses a big black snake to teach dogs not to touch any snake, although all our retrievers are collar conditioned and Force Fetched prior to this training. The use of force (pain from the collar) for snake conditioning is not the primary training technique (which is always true when using the collar for training).

Our dogs learn the "leave it" command as pups so that you can stop a dog from picking ANYTHING up. Comes in handy if your drop something that you dog should not eat....or if you see your dog about to pick up something that is dangerous, like a small battery, toad stool, etc.

The snake proofing is just an extension of this command. Starting in a cut grass situation where the dog can see the snake prior to scenting it, then progressing into taller grass and cover until the dog avoids both the scent and sight of any snake. I do not want the dog to learn to 'run' just avoid! Pressure is only used once you know the dog understands the command 'Leave it' and refuses to follow that command.....In time the dog learns to avoid the snake without being told to do so.....

Good Luck

With the number of venomous snakes down here in FL, most Clubs run snake avoidance training classes yearly. Both our dogs have been through it. Since none of the indigenous venomous snakes have been used to manufacture the vaccine, it's basically useless. I'd rather put the $$ into more training.

JMHO,