Pedigree

[TheIndian]

Very interested in getting a GSP puppy that will become another member of my family and somewhere down the line I might decide to hunt...might. I have access to property that would be perfect for hunting...so I can see it happening.

1 - What should I be looking for in a Pedigree chart? These charts seem to contain a lot of information.
2 - Are the titles that the parents, grandparents and great grandparents have achieved important? (CH, GSH, MH, UT, etc...)
3 - Is it very important that each member of the family tree have a "SN" or "SN" number associated with it? Aren't these numbers important in terms of a dogs health records?

Thanks in advance for help.
Chris

[greg jacobs]

The SN or SR is just part of the registration number. Nothing to do with health. Titles mean 2 things. The dog was able to learn enough and have enough natural ability to earn a title. Second the trainer was good enough to put a title on a dog. I like to see titles it is one of the things that seems to give you an idea what your pup might be able to accomplish. It's better than the breeder telling you how great the dogs are.
Learn what each of the titles are and decide what kind of dog you want.

[TheIndian]

Thanks Gary. Had actually started doing that yesterday. The best place for that would be NAVHDA, correct?

[tfbirddog2]

Last I looked a dog cant read......lol, but if they are papered at least you hope it's from good lines.....If you want test dogs,trial lines, field champs look them up, but go watch the parents hunt or work with birds find out if your getting a foot hunting dog or you need to buy a horse and gps unit to hunt behind the dog.... I know and have sold dogs with great lineage that have Field Champs 4 generations back and nothing current but they are winning..... IMO papers just really say registered and purebred.....

[kninebirddog]

first would be the dam and the Sire of the litter do the BOTH have the desired traits that one would want in their pup. Papers are nice but they are only the frosting to the cake so to speak if the ingredients aren't right then no matter how pretty the frosting {pegigree} is only going to do so much.
So then also look to the breeder ..what are they doing in their program do they talk about what thier dogs are doing or do they just refer to some dogs that are some where in the back of the pedigree?

Walnut Hill kennels is one of the better GSP breeders
There are more that do a very good job of producing nice pups But Rick and Brenda are the first people I would go to

[RayGubernat]

Pedigrees can tell you a lot, if you are a student of them. However it is NOT an exact science, by any means. It is a piece of paper that tells you stuff about the dog that you can kinda depend on too be truthful.

First, as mentioned the title FC or AFC or the back title SH or MH have to do with the dog's performance in the field. They absolutely tell you something about that dog's ability to perform at a certain level. This means that, at a minimum, the dog had the genetic ability to perform to that level in the field and the genetic ability to take the training necessary to perform at a very high level. The FC an AFC refer to excelling at field trials and the SH and MH refer to excelling at hunt tests.

There are several "flavors" of field trials, so it would be prudent to research the individual dog's placements to see what kind of trials it excelled in, to make sure you end up with the kind of dog you want.

Pedigrees can tell you how "concentrated" a the genetics of a certain line or lines happen to be in the dog under review, which will indicate how likely it will be that the dog under review will be "similar" others of that "line".

If you are a student of pedigrees you may be able to look at certain dogs and certain combinations back in the pedigree and know, to an extent, what tendencies and special talents those combinations may well have passed on into the dog whose pedigree you are evaluating.

RayG

[ezzy333]

Titles are invaluable for dogs you have never seen. No. 1 choice is know the dog and no.2 is know the pedigree. And No. 3 is ask questions.

Ezzy

[cjhills]

Pedigrees are basically useless to someone who is just starting out. If you do not have a pretty good idea what you want
in a dog and what traits to expect a dog with a particular title or pedigree to have,the titles and pedigrees will not mean much to you. Parents are important, grand parents somewhat important, great grand parents not so much.
Better by far to get out and visit some breeders and see how their dogs perform. Ask a lot of questions and go with a open mind. Go with a breeder who has been in business for awhile. Study up a bit on conformation. Ask about health tests and temperament. While most of us have a price range we can afford, do not let price be the most important deciding factor. The right pup is priceless, the wrong one is to expensive at any price. Expect to pay a bit more and get a bit more, from an established breeder. Most breeders who have been around awhile will honestly answer your questions. But most of us are pretty opinionated and are breeding what we like in a dog. That may or may not be what you like. Also if he has several generations of the same dogs it helps. Many will not volunteer much info, so if you have a question ask.
All this being said, when I bought my first GSP, with no experience at all and after looking at several litters which did not interest me. I went to look at a litter. At the first sight of the mother I knew I was going to buy one of her puppies before I got out of the car. The pup turn out to be a great dog. twenty five years and several hundred dogs later I have never regretted my first pick. I still remember his first point. good luck. Look at a lot of dogs and enjoy the ride...........Cj

[RayGubernat]

Chris -

As a follow-up on my comments:

It is actually fairly easy to become a student of pedigrees of the breed you are interested in. It justtakes some time.

Get on the internet and print off a bunch of pedigrees from different breeders of your selected breed. The dogs that different breeders showcase on their sites will generally be the very best representation of their type of dog. Take note of whether the breeder focuses on field trial or Hunt Test or Navhda or hunting dogs. Then look for similarities and differences, especially back a couple generations. Read the advertisements for each breeder/kennel so you get a sense of what it is they are trying to produce.

Then get on the phone and talk to a couple breeders of the type of dog you are interested in. Talk to a couple of breeders of dogs that might be more(or less) dog than you might want, for a rounder perspective. Most folks absolutely LOVE to talk dogs and are especially proud and fond of talking about THEIR dogs. They will do the educating if you listen and ask some of the right questions.

You will be surprised at how much information you can glean. It will make your selection process for a new hunting companion that much easier.

RayG

[TheIndian]

Thanks Greg...understood. (sorry I called you Gary )
tfbirddog2...that's what I've heard. Sounds like it might entail some traveling in the future but worth it.
kninebirddog/ezzy333...great tips! Will look for those things about the breeders.

Ray...didn't know there were front titles and back titles. Will do more research on that. "Concentrated?" Another new concept to learn/review about the pedigree. Does more "concentration" relate to health issues even if no health issues have been experienced in the prior generations? Do the terms "breeder lines" and "pedigree" pretty much mean the same thing?

Cjhills...understood. But If I don't plan on ever showing a dog, why is conformation important? Isn't that what "CJ" was all about at the Westminster show...conformation? Don't get me wrong...CJ f-ing beautiful but does conformation translate to health or performance of a GSP in the long run? A little confused there with your last paragraph...how did you know the right puppy if you had no experience?

Apologies if I left anyone out...
All this generous info greatly appreciated!!!