Gun Dog Forum

I have a 18 Month old GSP that had an awesome hunting season. She points and finds birds like crazy, but is not so great at hunting dead and retrieving. She will do it, but doesn't love it. She likes finding birds. Anyway....I was considering buying a running mate for the GSP. I want a dog that loves to hunt dead and retrieve dead birds. I hunt mainly wild quail. Also...my dogs live inside with my family and are pets as well as hunting companions. Here is my list of dogs to research so far? Any suggestions on breeds to look at?

English Springer Spaniel
English Cocker Spaniel

Thanks in Advance
Marshall

you couldn't go wrong with either of those breeds

A gsp from natural retrieving bloodlines. AKC hunting test or NAVHDA lines have some really good dogs for hunting dead and retrieving.........CJ

Agreed on the GSP bloodline and believe me my GSP will retrieve a bumper all day long and is breed NAVDHA. Maybe Its me!! I hunt wild birds! They don't cooperate. My GSP will retrieve if I have a one bird up one bird down situation, but that almost never happens. Most of the time a covey rises and a party begins. Shots are fired birds fall. More quail flush and more birds fall or don't. I now have 4 birds dead and/or crippled all in different places and scent everywhere. My GSP will find a bird pick it up come half way back.... then she gets scent....she drops the bird....she then runs 50 yards and goes on point. This GSP just loves to find and point birds. I can make her hunt dead and track cripples.....but it is a chore. I am new to this game and will take any suggestion. She just doesn't seem to love to do it. Its like getting my kids to take out the trash. Yes they will do it, but its not reliable and I have to get on them to do it.

This is why I was thinking of adding a breed that loves to hunt dead and retrieve.!!!

BTW....My GSP is not force fetched. Working on that now...So maybe that will help.

Thanks Again
Marshall

retrieving dummies does not necessarily translate to retrieving birds.
Multiple retrieves take training. I do not have the expertise to discuss multiple retrieves. maybe and occasional double. but, I think any breed will require some training and handling to retrieve four or five downed birds. I sure would like to get a chance to try it though. I wish I had quail hunting like you do.
A good solid here might help in bringing the first bird back.............................Cj

My first thought was that your dog needs to be force fetched. Sounds like you may be trying to do it yourself?? FF is tough to do for a novice at it. Since your dog generally likes to retrieve I would send her to a professional for FF. Then you could start working on training her to do multiple retrieves or have the pro help you with it. Just buying another dog may not necessarily solve your problem.

Yes....I have a professional doing the FF and he started today. I also want to be clear.....I am not saying that the GSP can not do the work. I just don't think she wants to do it....which FF should help with a pure retrieve. Hunting dead is still a concern. I can call her back with a here command and make her hunt dead. It is just a chore to do it. I have to continue calling her back. I am not by any means saying that a GSP can not do this work. What I am saying is my GSP will do it...it is just a pain to make her do it. I am a hunter.....I want the birds picked up quick and move to chase more birds. I don't want to be yelling at my dog that points amazing to hunt dead over and over again. My thought to getting another dog was because I had a MHR Lab before I move to the pointing breed. I know that my lab loved to hunt dead and retrieve. It was the most important joy for the dog. My GSP on the other had can do it....she just thinks its bellow her and she needs for find and point more birds. Also this is my first GSP and pointing breed.....Maybe I should expect more from her. It just seems logical for me to pick up another pup that loves to do that job and do it amazing.

Please by all means correct my if I have the wrong thoughts...

Thanks again.
Marshall

Look for field bred dogs. Almost different breeds than the bench bred. A field bred ESS tends to have shorter hair, more athletic build, unlimited energy, and the hunting part seems to be in the genes. Talk to a breeder before getting one. They are velcro dogs in the house, tend to stay close in the field. I've never hunted mine with a pointer. Mine like to find birds and flush them.

Might be time to break your dog...... A dog that's running around like a fool while you are shooting has no clue what's happening around him.

As far as another dog, in your situation I wouldn't add a flushing dog to the mix and would be hesitant to add another dog period. It's not that your dog doesn't like to retrieve. It doesn't know what the heck is happening around it. Concentrate more on your dog and less on filling your game bag and I bet you get different results.......


Jim

Jim....Good post. I don't have the dog steady. As of now the dog bolts as soon a the birds fly. No possible way for the dog to actually see many of the downed birds.

Thanks,
Marshall

X2 what Jim said. Adding another dog to the mix might add to the problem. Determine what standard you want from your dog and "teach" it; then reinforce when needed. Stop killing, and train.

First day with a professional for an 18 month old and your ready for another pup because the dog isn't retrieving. I like to put birds in the bag, but not at the expense of giving up on a young dog. You and I may have different priorities in the field. Work with your trainer and try your dog another season. You have plenty of time before you make another multi-year commitment to another dog. Give this one an opportunity to mature into its full potential. I also agree with jimbo&rooster. Just my opinion. Good luck!

18 mo. good lord you still have a pup!

A gsp from natural retrieving bloodlines

Agreed

OK .... You guys are are right thanks for keeping me in line. I will keep training the GSP on hunting dead and retrieving. OK. But I have fallen deeply for upland hunting and love to watch the dogs work. Is it really a bad idea to add another dog? How about a Brittany? I was really wanting more advice on what a good combination of hunting breeds that would work good with my already awesome GSP.

If y'all think it is crazy to add another that's cool too.

Thanks again
Marshall

The obvious answer to me is shoot 1 bird at a time. 1 bird with each rise. That way if getting limits is your forte, get them over more dog work. What's funner; 10 birds over 3 points or 10 birds over 10 points?

You may be remembering your labrador and it's retrieve and expect the GSP to do the same. That said, a lot of upland dogs do love to retrieve multiple falls but you have to train them differently. Did you train the MH lab yourself? If so, you would have to step back a ways and rethink the process: one bird at a time, FF, steady up slowly, keep the enthusiasm up, teach 'hunt dead with hotdogs (just an example), have lots of patience. That sort of thing. Getting a new dog would seriously hinder your work and play with the first one I would think. It's really hard to run two dogs unless one is really well trained.

Two dogs are wonderful but not for the reason you stated. Your pup will hunt dead if it gets some help learning. If you have two dogs they both will have to hunt dead till every bird is in the bag.

Ouzel wrote:You may be remembering your labrador and it's retrieve and expect the GSP to do the same. That said, a lot of upland dogs do love to retrieve multiple falls but you have to train them differently. Did you train the MH lab yourself? If so, you would have to step back a ways and rethink the process: one bird at a time, FF, steady up slowly, keep the enthusiasm up, teach 'hunt dead with hotdogs (just an example), have lots of patience. That sort of thing. Getting a new dog would seriously hinder your work and play with the first one I would think. It's really hard to run two dogs unless one is really well trained.

Or unless neither is really well trained..........................Cj

I hunted a lab with a GSP for a few seasons. It was hard to really enjoy myself for keeping both dogs in check. Now I have GSPs and EP. Any combination of pointing dogs can be hunted together. Assuming both dogs are at least steady to the shot, and will back. Why not another GSP? If you want a Britt, get one. But understand your current issue will only be multiplied when you add another dog unless you get them both trained. heck I have 8 of them far be it for me to recommend some one not buy a second.

To answer your question I'm sure there are plenty of breeds that you could run with your GSP and things would go just fine including a britt.. Depending on how big your dog runs and what you want them to run may dictate your next choice of breed.. ie britts will likely tend to stick closer into you than your current gsp but that doesn't necessarily mean a bad thing in dense cover or sticky birds a closer in dog could pick up birds your gsp missed. The choices are vast and I'm sure someone with more experience than I can suggest a pair of breeds that you'd thoroughly enjoy. HOWEVER, I think it would be very prudent to iron out the retrieving with your current dog, let that dog fully mature and come into its own and focus on developing it into everything it can possibly be and you yourself as a trainer. If this is your first bird dog I would be very, very, hesitant to add another dog to the mix until I was stone dead confident in that first dog to perform his job in a safe and effective manner in any situation you encounter hunting. If not I fear you'll end up juggling two dogs that are not fully ready and a recipe for a chaotic situation that hinders and does not help you in the field hunting. I feel your pain with wanting another dog though and wish you the best in seasons to come.

Continued good vice! Here's a thought. Continue to work and hunt your dog for two years. By then she will have some maturity and needed experience. Then breed her to QuillGordons' male pictured above. Not only is he good looking, but appears to be a retrieving "fool" (meant as a compliment). By that time she may also enjoy a "date" and you would be ready for a second dog. Why not out of your own breeding?

jimbo&rooster wrote:I hunted a lab with a GSP for a few seasons. It was hard to really enjoy myself for keeping both dogs in check. Now I have GSPs and EP. Any combination of pointing dogs can be hunted together. Assuming both dogs are at least steady to the shot, and will back. Why not another GSP? If you want a Britt, get one. But understand your current issue will only be multiplied when you add another dog unless you get them both trained. heck I have 8 of them far be it for me to recommend some one not buy a second.

+1 I did the same thing with the same result..... getting a flusher will make hunting a job not a recreation.... you will spend all your time handling.... go with another GSP mine are relentless retrievers and much better than my EPs.

mmcspadden wrote:Agreed on the GSP bloodline and believe me my GSP will retrieve a bumper all day long and is breed NAVDHA. Maybe Its me!! I hunt wild birds! They don't cooperate. My GSP will retrieve if I have a one bird up one bird down situation, but that almost never happens. Most of the time a covey rises and a party begins. Shots are fired birds fall. More quail flush and more birds fall or don't. I now have 4 birds dead and/or crippled all in different places and scent everywhere. My GSP will find a bird pick it up come half way back.... then she gets scent....she drops the bird....she then runs 50 yards and goes on point. This GSP just loves to find and point birds. I can make her hunt dead and track cripples.....but it is a chore. I am new to this game and will take any suggestion. She just doesn't seem to love to do it. Its like getting my kids to take out the trash. Yes they will do it, but its not reliable and I have to get on them to do it.

This is why I was thinking of adding a breed that loves to hunt dead and retrieve.!!!

BTW....My GSP is not force fetched. Working on that now...So maybe that will help.

Thanks Again
Marshall

So what are you saying here?
You dropping 4 quail from one point on a covey of wild quail ?thats bloody good shooting!!
Or are there multiple shooters only using one pointing dog??
How about using just a dbl shot gun and limit yourself to one or two downed birds and get the dog to retrieve one or two at a time

I still want you to think about what your GSP is going to be doing while you and your second dog are hunting and retrieving the dead birds?

If your not already doing so, think about hunting with someone with more experience with pointing dogs. Get a "mentor". Join a club. What are your current priorities? Birds in the bag or development of your dog? I agree with Hustonmc. If you have too many birds on the ground, chances are you have some cripples that will get away or crawl into a hole. In the area that you probably hunt, I don't think you want to be reaching into any hole or have your dog trying to dig a cripple out of any hole...if you know what I mean. Shoot one bird and make sure you get it. Just my opinion. Good luck...

Sorry for late reply I was off to Disney with my Family.

Too answer I few questions.

I hunt with multiple shooters. Mainly to due to the shooters having access to hunting land and I have proven my GSP can find the birds. I usually hunt with 3-5 hunters.
I train as much has I hunt. In fact for the first 4 hunt this year with the GSP I didn't bring a gun. I was just handling the dog. I am not a killing....I am a hunter....5 or 15 birds don't matter that much to me. The guys with access to the land are killers....they want to fill the bags. I do want to find all cripples and dead birds though. I like to eat what we kill and would hate to leave a cripple.
I hunt with an over and under.
Every dog I have owned I want to get the most out of it. This is my first pointing breed. I use a pro training for all my dogs. Then I have the trainers train me. I am the first to admit I don't know everything, but I do love the dogs. The last thing I want is to confuse are mess up a dog.
My dogs sleep inside...Mostly cuddled up with my wife in the bed. They go to my kids soccer, baseball, and every other place that is OK with dogs. The swim in the lakes with my kids. They sit beside my kids beds every night and listen to me read a book and pray with my kids. They are ran at least 3 times a week. They are kennel trained, love to ride in our SUV between my two kids. They are hunted 10 plus times a year.

I do expect them to work and this GSP's job is to find birds. Which she does remarkable well. I do understand she is young and I will do all I can to get the most out of her.

What I am not...
I am not a professional trainer.
I am not a the yelling type...I don't like to yell at my dogs in the field. I am sure you have all been on a hunt where a dog is yelled at the entire hunt. I will correct a dog though!


The GSP I have now.
She pro trained for 4 weeks at 7 Month.
Hunted 15 times mainly wild quail. Pheasant hunting 3 days in Kansas.
I worked her before the season on quail and pigeon with remote launcher. I still try to do this once a week when I have birds.
She is in pro training now getting FF, Whoa trained, and hunting dead. Thanks for all the advice and how to help hunting dead.
She is steady to wing now. I think I am OK with this.....Some folks have got me thinking this will help with finding downed birds.
I use e-collar and like the beeper just so I know where she is and when she goes on point. May switch to GPS


Man...if I was a dog I would want to be my dog.

Right now you're dog is retrieving for itself and not for you. The force fetching will change that and your dog will be even better than before. I would wait until you see how this fall goes before considering another dog. If this fall goes well and retrieving isn't an issue, find another good pup and start training it.

She's young and hasn't had a lot of experience yet I would off just hunted her as much as possible this fall before I did any more ....but if you have her with a pro now it will all work out

good luck

FIrst off I am not a pro and I am hunting my first serious GSP. I owned a previous GSP but it was a rescue before rescue became vogue. Lets just say she made a good family dog and leave it at that.

you said

"The GSP I have now.
She pro trained for 4 weeks at 7 Month.
Hunted 15 times mainly wild quail. Pheasant hunting 3 days in Kansas.
I worked her before the season on quail and pigeon with remote launcher. I still try to do this once a week when I have birds.
She is in pro training now getting FF, Whoa trained, and hunting dead. Thanks for all the advice and how to help hunting dead.
She is steady to wing now. I think I am OK with this.....Some folks have got me thinking this will help with finding downed birds.
I use e-collar and like the beeper just so I know where she is and when she goes on point. May switch to GPS"

I took my current GSP thru the NAVHDA NA test at 14 months she scored a Prize I 108.
You had your pup at a Pro trainer at 7 months ?
She wasn't developed enough to understand what you or the trainer want from her at 7 months - IMO

I too used a trainer but he wouldn't take her until she was 18 months old. Big difference in maturity level between a 7 month old and a 18 month old dog
My GSP is now going on 5 years old and is just now coming into her own. I'm looking forward to 5-7 more years behind her. It's going to be awesome

My suggestion would be to show some patience and perseverance. Spend some time with a reputable trainer , one who will work with your dog and work with you. I take Dusty to her trainer every August for a tune up and I spend 4-5 days with her every week for a month polishing my own skills up under a critical but very understanding trainer. One who recognizes my dogs faults as well as mine. He strived to understand what I wanted for a hunting partner and has delivered in the ultimate definition of the word. Tune ups are in addition to the training and field work we do in the off season.

My advice would be to wait on the second dog, get this one to where you're satisfied with her performance and make the call then.

Good luck on either way you chose to go

Thanks for all the comments. I have decided to wait another season and see what happens. I still want another hunting dog, but who knows I may end up with 2 GSP's in a couple of years.

Thanks again.

jimbo&rooster wrote:Might be time to break your dog...... A dog that's running around like a fool while you are shooting has no clue what's happening around him.

As far as another dog, in your situation I wouldn't add a flushing dog to the mix and would be hesitant to add another dog period. It's not that your dog doesn't like to retrieve. It doesn't know what the heck is happening around it. Concentrate more on your dog and less on filling your game bag and I bet you get different results.......


Jim

+1

If you are hunting quail in Texas just running one dog will make for a very short hunt - at least effective for a very short time. I guide all season, board dogs year round for many serious hunters and train dogs.
I do not know any serious and passionate quail hunter in West/South-Texas that only run one dog(or two) - and absolute majority of them only hold to the flush. Some retrieve good, some don"t. Don't let any search for a theoretical perfection ruin your hunting experience. The important thing to get a good hunting dog is to get out and hunt a LOT. As long as they hold their birds and handle. Even with force fetch a pointing dog will mostly never be as good as a spaniel to search dead. If you loose a bird here and there it is not the end of the world - some peoples obsession with spending 30 min to find one bird always looked extremely weird to me. We are out to hunt for the experience of great moments - not to tally up birds or stress around shouting "dead bird" and peering into every prickly pear we can find (-:.

Some great bird dogs will always be average or even way below average retrievers - even with the best of training. Enjoy the dog for what he does good. For sure a super, stylish bird finder that would never pick up a bird would be much to prefer to a "plodder" that only find 10% of the birds but retrieve every single one of them !

I love using my springers for flushing and retrieving, but if I only could have 2-5 dogs then I would use those spots for pointing dogs first.

mmcspadden wrote:I have a 18 Month old GSP that had an awesome hunting season. She points and finds birds like crazy, but is not so great at hunting dead and retrieving. She will do it, but doesn't love it. She likes finding birds. Anyway....I was considering buying a running mate for the GSP. I want a dog that loves to hunt dead and retrieve dead birds. I hunt mainly wild quail. Also...my dogs live inside with my family and are pets as well as hunting companions. Here is my list of dogs to research so far? Any suggestions on breeds to look at?

English Springer Spaniel
English Cocker Spaniel

Thanks in Advance
Marshall

When you stay looking for a second dog there are lots of options. Another GSP, Visla, German Wirehair,weimaraner, and alot of spaniels and setters

JAG06 wrote:If you are hunting quail in Texas just running one dog will make for a very short hunt - at least effective for a very short time. I guide all season, board dogs year round for many serious hunters and train dogs.
I do not know any serious and passionate quail hunter in West/South-Texas that only run one dog(or two) - and absolute majority of them only hold to the flush. Some retrieve good, some don"t. Don't let any search for a theoretical perfection ruin your hunting experience. The important thing to get a good hunting dog is to get out and hunt a LOT. As long as they hold their birds and handle. Even with force fetch a pointing dog will mostly never be as good as a spaniel to search dead. If you loose a bird here and there it is not the end of the world - some peoples obsession with spending 30 min to find one bird always looked extremely weird to me. We are out to hunt for the experience of great moments - not to tally up birds or stress around shouting "dead bird" and peering into every prickly pear we can find (-:.

Some great bird dogs will always be average or even way below average retrievers - even with the best of training. Enjoy the dog for what he does good. For sure a super, stylish bird finder that would never pick up a bird would be much to prefer to a "plodder" that only find 10% of the birds but retrieve every single one of them !

I love using my springers for flushing and retrieving, but if I only could have 2-5 dogs then I would use those spots for pointing dogs first.

mmcspadden wrote:I have a 18 Month old GSP that had an awesome hunting season. She points and finds birds like crazy, but is not so great at hunting dead and retrieving. She will do it, but doesn't love it. She likes finding birds. Anyway....I was considering buying a running mate for the GSP. I want a dog that loves to hunt dead and retrieve dead birds. I hunt mainly wild quail. Also...my dogs live inside with my family and are pets as well as hunting companions. Here is my list of dogs to research so far? Any suggestions on breeds to look at?

English Springer Spaniel
English Cocker Spaniel

Thanks in Advance
Marshall

I understand what you are saying as far as exciting but fir the good if the sport that dog that find 10% and recovers every one is better than finding them all and losing many of them. Much as I love hunting and dog work the very best thing I want is to make sure every bird that was hit is recovered. I have spent many days searching for a deer and many hours searching for birds that I knew were going to die.

I would talk to Charley Rose at Wildrose GSP's who uses some of the most top producing Field Champions in Texas. (US). My GSP is out of similar lines and works well with my Vizsla's but I think your better off sticking with the same breed. What is your GSP's breeding?

If you decide on a Springer, talk to Rachel Allenby at Allenby Kennels. She's just up the street from you in Liberty Hill. I can absolutely guarantee that you won't find a better place to get a spaniel on this side of the pond. I've got one from her that is hands down the best all around dog I've ever had. Great little retriever, naturally hunts/quarters like a champ, extremely biddable, and a great house dog...and she took very, very little training.

I'm not really sure how to answer the O.P.'s question but I do have quite a bit of experience of hunting GSP's, brittanies, labs, springer spaniels and cocker spaniels in two or three dog teams. I've been doing it for about 30 years. In general hunting breeds have a preference for hunting and retrieving is a secondary thing as far as they are concerned. That applies to spaniels just as much as the pointing breeds. You could end up with two hunters and the same two not so keen or not so proficient retrievers.
Much would depend upon the natural inclinations of whichever two breeds you hunted together.

A lab as a second dog is maybe the safest bet ?

As others have suggested in this thread the answer to your dilemma rests more with you than with any dogs you may have, you need to do more specialised retriever training in my opinion rather than rely on the dogs instincts. Maybe you also need to calm down the lads you go hunting with too ? They are doing your dog or dogs no favours by shooting as they seem to be doing ???

Lots of birds in the bag is one thing, good gundog work is another.

Bill T.

JAG06 wrote:If you are hunting quail in Texas just running one dog will make for a very short hunt - at least effective for a very short time. I guide all season, board dogs year round for many serious hunters and train dogs.
I do not know any serious and passionate quail hunter in West/South-Texas that only run one dog(or two) - and absolute majority of them only hold to the flush. Some retrieve good, some don"t. Don't let any search for a theoretical perfection ruin your hunting experience. The important thing to get a good hunting dog is to get out and hunt a LOT. As long as they hold their birds and handle. Even with force fetch a pointing dog will mostly never be as good as a spaniel to search dead. If you loose a bird here and there it is not the end of the world - some peoples obsession with spending 30 min to find one bird always looked extremely weird to me. We are out to hunt for the experience of great moments - not to tally up birds or stress around shouting "dead bird" and peering into every prickly pear we can find (-:.

Some great bird dogs will always be average or even way below average retrievers - even with the best of training. Enjoy the dog for what he does good. For sure a super, stylish bird finder that would never pick up a bird would be much to prefer to a "plodder" that only find 10% of the birds but retrieve every single one of them !

I love using my springers for flushing and retrieving, but if I only could have 2-5 dogs then I would use those spots for pointing dogs first.

mmcspadden wrote:I have a 18 Month old GSP that had an awesome hunting season. She points and finds birds like crazy, but is not so great at hunting dead and retrieving. She will do it, but doesn't love it. She likes finding birds. Anyway....I was considering buying a running mate for the GSP. I want a dog that loves to hunt dead and retrieve dead birds. I hunt mainly wild quail. Also...my dogs live inside with my family and are pets as well as hunting companions. Here is my list of dogs to research so far? Any suggestions on breeds to look at?

English Springer Spaniel
English Cocker Spaniel

Thanks in Advance
Marshall

I am one of those guys that will search a long time for a dead bird. I'm not doing it to fill my bag. I do it because it's my responsibility as a sportsman to find every downed/crippled animal, and to not create waste.

Amen

mnaj_springer wrote:

JAG06 wrote:If you are hunting quail in Texas just running one dog will make for a very short hunt - at least effective for a very short time. I guide all season, board dogs year round for many serious hunters and train dogs.
I do not know any serious and passionate quail hunter in West/South-Texas that only run one dog(or two) - and absolute majority of them only hold to the flush. Some retrieve good, some don"t. Don't let any search for a theoretical perfection ruin your hunting experience. The important thing to get a good hunting dog is to get out and hunt a LOT. As long as they hold their birds and handle. Even with force fetch a pointing dog will mostly never be as good as a spaniel to search dead. If you loose a bird here and there it is not the end of the world - some peoples obsession with spending 30 min to find one bird always looked extremely weird to me. We are out to hunt for the experience of great moments - not to tally up birds or stress around shouting "dead bird" and peering into every prickly pear we can find (-:.

Some great bird dogs will always be average or even way below average retrievers - even with the best of training. Enjoy the dog for what he does good. For sure a super, stylish bird finder that would never pick up a bird would be much to prefer to a "plodder" that only find 10% of the birds but retrieve every single one of them !

I love using my springers for flushing and retrieving, but if I only could have 2-5 dogs then I would use those spots for pointing dogs first.

mmcspadden wrote:I have a 18 Month old GSP that had an awesome hunting season. She points and finds birds like crazy, but is not so great at hunting dead and retrieving. She will do it, but doesn't love it. She likes finding birds. Anyway....I was considering buying a running mate for the GSP. I want a dog that loves to hunt dead and retrieve dead birds. I hunt mainly wild quail. Also...my dogs live inside with my family and are pets as well as hunting companions. Here is my list of dogs to research so far? Any suggestions on breeds to look at?

English Springer Spaniel
English Cocker Spaniel

Thanks in Advance
Marshall

I am one of those guys that will search a long time for a dead bird. I'm not doing it to fill my bag. I do it because it's my responsibility as a sportsman to find every downed/crippled animal, and to not create waste.

I was about to post the same thing! Yes its about being a good sportsman, having respect for the game taken and heck, quail taste too good to leave in the field! Also gives the anti hunters more to criticizes us on.

30 min to find a bird?! Where every you have seen that, they need some new dogs! It shouldn't take more than a couple of min to few min to find a bird with a decent dog! If you mark and can send the dog, not a problem. I noticed that you seen dogs that are only steady to flush, if their owners spent just a little time, they could hold and get a mark on the shot birds.

If you really like GSPs, check out DKs! They are required to find crippled birds, ducks, vermin etc and delivery to hand. More emphases on finding down game and they can have the desire to find game that you are looking for and still look pretty finding/pointing birds.

When on the preserve, I will make every attempt to find a downed bird.

When in the wild, I will give it a decent shot, but am not going to waste a ton of time or risk trespassing for a bird. The circle of life will ensure that nothing is wasted. To each their own.