Advice with aggression

rc92au · Post by **rc92au** » Wed Nov 12, 2014 5:25 pm

I have a one year old male neutered GSP. Great dog, listens really well. My roommate has a 6 month old dog he got a couple months ago. He is still in tact, and he is really calm, and obedient. Over the past month or so my GSP has gotten aggressive towards his dog when inside our house. I can tell when it is going to happen bc he starts shaking and growling and tucks his tail when he sees the other dog, then will get aggressive. It is really random and hard to know when it is going to happen though. It's usually during the initial meeting between them when they first see each other. Also, his dog doesnt try to challenge my gsp at all. My GSP gets plenty of exercise everyday, has all of the basic commands down, and I've been training him with NILIF. He gets extremely protective with this dog. When he does it I've tried spraying him with a water bottle (this is how i taught him to not jump up on the counters or tables etc) and giving him a firm "no". Also, I've tried putting him on his back until he relaxes. He has been well socialized with other dogs. His girlfriend actually has a dog as well and when her dog (3 yr old male) comes over my dog (Hudson) isn't bothered at all. Not really sure what to do and would love some advice. Thanks!

Post by **Sharon** » Wed Nov 12, 2014 6:38 pm

Welcome to the forum.

I year old and 6 month old
What kind of aggression is shown? How bad is it?
What breed is the 6 month old.?

Normally I let them work it out , if it isn't too violent. You're dog is just saying, "I'm in charge here bud." He was there first.

Munster · Post by **Munster** » Wed Nov 12, 2014 6:59 pm

Tail tucked doesnt sound like a dominant aggression, sounds like fear or miss trust. Could also be that he knows he is going to be corrected for the behaviour. Hard to know with out seeing it and reading the signs.
Dogs are like people, sometimes there are dogs that just dont see eye to eye.I have a friend with a DD that my KM HATES. They hunt great together, but dont put them together in a closed space. We dont push the issue, it isnt worth it if they hunt great together.
You are in a bad spot,as the other dog is your roommates.

Pepper · Post by **Pepper** » Wed Nov 12, 2014 8:19 pm

rc92au wrote:I have a one year old male neutered GSP. Great dog, listens really well. My roommate has a 6 month old dog he got a couple months ago. He is still in tact, and he is really calm, and obedient. Over the past month or so my GSP has gotten aggressive towards his dog when inside our house. I can tell when it is going to happen bc he starts shaking and growling and tucks his tail when he sees the other dog, then will get aggressive. It is really random and hard to know when it is going to happen though. It's usually during the initial meeting between them when they first see each other. Also, his dog doesnt try to challenge my gsp at all. My GSP gets plenty of exercise everyday, has all of the basic commands down, and I've been training him with NILIF. He gets extremely protective with this dog. When he does it I've tried spraying him with a water bottle (this is how i taught him to not jump up on the counters or tables etc) and giving him a firm "no". Also, I've tried putting him on his back until he relaxes. He has been well socialized with other dogs. His girlfriend actually has a dog as well and when her dog (3 yr old male) comes over my dog (Hank) isn't bothered at all. Not really sure what to do and would love some advice. Thanks!

You are the alpha and in return show that you are the alpha of your dog and of the other dog. Your body language ( standing tall), your voice, and eye contact dictate what the dog's response is. They do this better than we do believe it or not. No spray bottle or rowing the dog on it's back. Show that you are the alpha male. It will not take long for them to understand their place. If you have to get in his face and show and I mean show...The fear (If you what to say that) comes from you and not the other dog. If they understand, which they should, then it becomes permanent in their mind. Dogs are very keen on us in every aspect. We need to show them there place in our world. If we do that, then the eye contract from them is always seeing what we as humans will do next, not in fear, but as a pack animal for us. You do that...these dogs will love us to dead and I mean that.

Edit to post: There is a caveat to this and that is, if you have an alpha male, then all bets are off, unless there has a "coming to Jesus moment". Otherwise the dog will test you it's whole life.

rc92au · Post by **rc92au** » Thu Nov 13, 2014 11:48 am

It's a mixed breed (they think st bernard, golden retriever, and rotweiler). He's very laid back and is not very active. My GSP will kind of stalk him around the living room and then when he gets close he will start growling and snap at him (usually doesnt bite but sometimes does) for a few seconds until we can break it up. His dog doesnt fight back or challenge my gsp at all. When/how should I correct him? Would it help if his dog got fixed? Hudson (my gsp) does it especially when we are just hanging out in the living room and he is roaming around or napping or chewing on a bone and my roommate and his dog walk in. Seems like my gsp is guarding and protecting his home and feels threatened. He definitely knows I'm the alpha, he tried to challenge (growling and showing his teeth) me a couple months ago when I was trying to bathe him (which he hates) and I put him in his place and showed him that was unacceptable behavior. But this morning we came downstairs and my roommate and his dog were hanging out downstairs and my dog was completely fine. So some days are better than others. Just not really sure what to do. And Hudson is always happy and loves dogs and other people at the dog park or anywhere we go.

birddog1968 · Post by **birddog1968** » Fri Nov 14, 2014 11:33 pm

Roll up a bath towel, secure with rubber bands on each end, when dog growls or even cuts his eyes wrong command NO and "bonk" the dog with the rolled up towel . by bonk I mean sling it at his head. It won't hurt him but it'll get his mind right and end the foolishness.

Post by **Sharon** » Fri Nov 14, 2014 11:42 pm

rc92au wrote:It's a mixed breed (they think st bernard, golden retriever, and rotweiler). He's very laid back and is not very active. My GSP will kind of stalk him around the living room and then when he gets close he will start growling and snap at him (usually doesnt bite but sometimes does) for a few seconds until we can break it up. His dog doesnt fight back or challenge my gsp at all. When/how should I correct him? Would it help if his dog got fixed? Hudson (my gsp) does it especially when we are just hanging out in the living room and he is roaming around or napping or chewing on a bone and my roommate and his dog walk in. Seems like my gsp is guarding and protecting his home and feels threatened. He definitely knows I'm the alpha, he tried to challenge (growling and showing his teeth) me a couple months ago when I was trying to bathe him (which he hates) and I put him in his place and showed him that was unacceptable behavior. But this morning we came downstairs and my roommate and his dog were hanging out downstairs and my dog was completely fine. So some days are better than others. Just not really sure what to do. And Hudson is always happy and loves dogs and other people at the dog park or anywhere we go.

Absolutely true.( bolded part) Often this will pass.

"Would it help if his dog got fixed?" quote
Neutering seldom makes a difference for that problem , but sometimes does.
At the dog park it is interesting to see the change in many neutered dogs' disposition when an unneutered male arrives so maybe...........

Pepper · Post by **Pepper** » Sat Nov 15, 2014 12:15 am

rc92au wrote:It's a mixed breed (they think st bernard, golden retriever, and rotweiler). He's very laid back and is not very active. My GSP will kind of stalk him around the living room and then when he gets close he will start growling and snap at him (usually doesnt bite but sometimes does) for a few seconds until we can break it up. His dog doesnt fight back or challenge my gsp at all. When/how should I correct him? Would it help if his dog got fixed? Hudson (my gsp) does it especially when we are just hanging out in the living room and he is roaming around or napping or chewing on a bone and my roommate and his dog walk in. Seems like my gsp is guarding and protecting his home and feels threatened. He definitely knows I'm the alpha, he tried to challenge (growling and showing his teeth) me a couple months ago when I was trying to bathe him (which he hates) and I put him in his place and showed him that was unacceptable behavior. But this morning we came downstairs and my roommate and his dog were hanging out downstairs and my dog was completely fine. So some days are better than others. Just not really sure what to do. And Hudson is always happy and loves dogs and other people at the dog park or anywhere we go.

This is something that you need to show who is in charge. Dogs need that. So show and they will understand. This is in black and white and no grey area. You are the alpha...You are the human in control.

Edit to post: If your dog is growling, then show eye contact and say "knock it off!" in a stern voice to show who in in control. Must do.

Brazosvalleyvizslas · Post by **Brazosvalleyvizslas** » Sat Nov 15, 2014 12:37 am

Pepper wrote:
rc92au wrote:It's a mixed breed (they think st bernard, golden retriever, and rotweiler). He's very laid back and is not very active. My GSP will kind of stalk him around the living room and then when he gets close he will start growling and snap at him (usually doesnt bite but sometimes does) for a few seconds until we can break it up. His dog doesnt fight back or challenge my gsp at all. When/how should I correct him? Would it help if his dog got fixed? Hudson (my gsp) does it especially when we are just hanging out in the living room and he is roaming around or napping or chewing on a bone and my roommate and his dog walk in. Seems like my gsp is guarding and protecting his home and feels threatened. He definitely knows I'm the alpha, he tried to challenge (growling and showing his teeth) me a couple months ago when I was trying to bathe him (which he hates) and I put him in his place and showed him that was unacceptable behavior. But this morning we came downstairs and my roommate and his dog were hanging out downstairs and my dog was completely fine. So some days are better than others. Just not really sure what to do. And Hudson is always happy and loves dogs and other people at the dog park or anywhere we go.
This is something that you need to show who is in charge. Dogs need that. So show and they will understand. This is in black and white and no grey area. You are the alpha...You are the human in control.

They don't always get the message.

Pepper · Post by **Pepper** » Sat Nov 15, 2014 12:43 am

I understand that, but it is to us to show and continue to show.

Pepper · Post by **Pepper** » Sat Nov 15, 2014 12:54 am

We are dealing with animals unique in there way. It is up to us to know there behavior so that when a challenge happens, we know what to do and keep the pack together. That is our job and have them perform their job in the field and become a family member in our home. Just saying.

Brazosvalleyvizslas · Post by **Brazosvalleyvizslas** » Sat Nov 15, 2014 12:56 am

Pepper wrote:I understand that, but it is to us to show and continue to show.

No argument but I have been down the road enough times to know that we cant avoid dogs that somehow decide to try to kill each other.

Pepper · Post by **Pepper** » Sat Nov 15, 2014 1:04 am

Brazosvalleyvizslas wrote:
Pepper wrote:I understand that, but it is to us to show and continue to show.
No argument but I have been down the road enough times to think we can avoid dogs that somehow decide to try to kill each other.

I believe it is a question of who is in charge and show who is in charge. Dogs will look to us for approval and if they don't get that, they become submissive. JMO

Nutmeg247 · Post by **Nutmeg247** » Sat Nov 15, 2014 9:10 am

rc92au wrote:... Hudson (my gsp) does it especially when we are just hanging out in the living room and he is roaming around or napping or chewing on a bone and my roommate and his dog walk in. Seems like my gsp is guarding and protecting his home and feels threatened...

Sounds like a version of jealousy or fear-based resource-guarding. He has the room to himself, maybe the bone to himself, then faces potential competition. Because physical correction hasn't yet helped, in this case I'm not sure other types of physical correction, tried instead, would help by themselves. Your dog probably has been successful in getting the other dog separated from him by trying this, even at the price of getting held on his back. In terms of tactics, one thing to keep in mind would be not taking the other dog out of the room unless and until your dog is acting appropriately. Obviously don't let him growl or stalk the other dog, but if it starts, take your dog back across the room and wait until your dog is behaving before the other dog leaves. Then the desired behavior is the one getting rewarded.

Bluesky2012 · Post by **Bluesky2012** » Sat Nov 15, 2014 4:47 pm

If your dog once considered growling at you, then you are not in charge and it does not respect you. There's the initial problem. Poor socialization and a lack of formal training.

For an immediate correction, lift it up by the scruff of the neck. I do it with my 70lb dog, works well.

Post by **ezzy333** » Sat Nov 15, 2014 5:03 pm

Bluesky2012 wrote:If your dog once considered growling at you, then you are not in charge and it does not respect you. There's the initial problem. Poor socialization and a lack of formal training.

For an immediate correction, lift it up by the scruff of the neck. I do it with my 70lb dog, works well.

If I am not mistaken he explain how he corrected that situation that happened in the past without reoccurrence.

Stoneface · Post by **Stoneface** » Sun Nov 16, 2014 11:32 am

There are different sorts of aggression. You have dogs that are in the red zone and try to attack everything that moves. That can be caused by a lot of different thing. It sounds like this is just a pecking order situation. By natural instinct, dogs don't want to fight. It's counterintuitive to their survival instincts. If a dog is injured in the wild, their chances of survival are really hurt. In the wild you'll get a lot of growling and spats between dogs over pecking order. It's completely natural. If you bring a new dog in, your dog is trying to tell the dog that's he's above him in the pack. That's all this sounds like to me. I don't allow fights between my dogs, but once in awhile Moxy oversteps her bounds and Cinna lets her know she's still the subordinate dog. It's over in a matter of microseconds and we go on about our day.

I used to write back and forth with a guy who worked for a hunt kennel in England. He maintained a pack of hounds. They'd have thirty dogs in a pen together. He said the number one thing Americans ask him is how he keeps the dogs from fighting. He said he didn't. He made sure they had plenty of exercise, then if they had any disagreements they were allowed to work it out for themselves. If you break it up before it ever gets a chance of being resolved then there will always be tension because nothing will be settled.

If your dogs have plenty of exercise and are not typically over aggressive, I would let them work it out. Chances are they would growl and maybe hack at each other, then in about five seconds the other dog would submit, your dog would be dubbed the dominant of the two and all will be right with the world.

People always seem to think that they are the alpha of the house and all the other dogs fallow like hippies holding hands and skipping along. It doesn't work like that. I'm alpha in my pack followed by my brother, Stryker. Nissa is the veteran and the dominant of the four dogs in the house. Below her is Holly, the Pomeranian, then Cinna with Moxy at the bottom. Dogs have to know who is above and below them. A thousand years of genetic evolution says so.

ACooper · Post by **ACooper** » Sun Nov 16, 2014 12:22 pm

What the OP is describing does not sound like a dominance issue IMO.

Post by **Sharon** » Sun Nov 16, 2014 2:07 pm

I agree.
Everytime I've brought a new dog into the house , there have been issues for a while. Pecking order has to be established . Perfectly normal. Only time I interfere is if I'm trying to watch the hockey game or one dog is going to require vet attention = $$$$$ It sorts itself out sooner or later.

I'm told some dogs will want to kill each other their whole life . Thankfully , I've never experienced this and think it must be rare.

shags · Post by **shags** » Sun Nov 16, 2014 3:17 pm

Sharon wrote:I'm told some dogs will want to kill each other their whole life . Thankfully , I've never experienced this and think it must be rare.

I've had that...TWICE. I believe it developed because the dogs were too close together in age. We waited only about 8 months between puppies both times. All was well until they hit around two years old, then all Hades broke loose. For the rest of their lives we had to keep them separated. We tried everything including letting them go at it to settle who is Top Dog. They would have killed each other, seriously.

After the second pair, we've spaced puppies out by several years, so the older ones can put the new guy in its place all along. No more problems, with groups of between 3 and 6 dogs.

Pepper · Post by **Pepper** » Sun Nov 16, 2014 8:44 pm

If I have a situation like that, then there would definitely be a “coming to Jesus moment”, either with one or both and I wouldn’t stop there. If I sense that the behavior such that the hacks go up, then I will stop it right then and there and remind them by me showing a threatening position big time. I had this occurred about one and half years ago with a new dog in my household and it took only one time for dog who was the aggressive(bit the other dog) to understand. She is still with me and took in the pup that I have now. All three dogs I have now are playing and getting along.
In conclusion …We have to at least make an attempt to correct this and the worst case scenario would be of course, one of the dogs goes to a different owner. JMO

Post by **ezzy333** » Sun Nov 16, 2014 10:28 pm

shags wrote:
Sharon wrote:I'm told some dogs will want to kill each other their whole life . Thankfully , I've never experienced this and think it must be rare.
I've had that...TWICE. I believe it developed because the dogs were too close together in age. We waited only about 8 months between puppies both times. All was well until they hit around two years old, then all Hades broke loose. For the rest of their lives we had to keep them separated. We tried everything including letting them go at it to settle who is Top Dog. They would have killed each other, seriously.

After the second pair, we've spaced puppies out by several years, so the older ones can put the new guy in its place all along. No more problems, with groups of between 3 and 6 dogs.

I have had the same experience a couple of times and as far as I can tell there is no way to correct it other than keep them separate. That is not unusual in many species.

shags · Post by **shags** » Mon Nov 17, 2014 5:46 am

Pepper wrote:If I have a situation like that, then there would definitely be a “coming to Jesus moment”, either with one or both and I wouldn’t stop there. If I sense that the behavior such that the hacks go up, then I will stop it right then and there and remind them by me showing a threatening position big time. I had this occurred about one and half years ago with a new dog in my household and it took only one time for dog who was the aggressive(bit the other dog) to understand. She is still with me and took in the pup that I have now. All three dogs I have now are playing and getting along.
In conclusion …We have to at least make an attempt to correct this and the worst case scenario would be of course, one of the dogs goes to a different owner. JMO

Let me tell you, with dogs like this there is no fixing - if you 'fixed' yours, then it wasn't a case of fighting to the death type of aggression between them. 'Come to Jesus' makes it worse. The fights are so spontaneous that there usually isn't any warning with posturing type body language. No hackles raised, no growling, no staring...chaos erupts in a second, and you'll have no chance for preventive intervention. There is no predictability in what will precipitate a fight - except that the two are in proximity to each other.
Run of the mill aggression issues are different, and can be fixed one way or another. This stuff, not. It's way beyond red zone, it's nuclear.

CDN_Cocker · Post by **CDN_Cocker** » Mon Nov 17, 2014 6:34 am

rc92au wrote:Would it help if his dog got fixed?

This question makes me cringe. His dog isn't the issue. Did getting your's "fixed" make a difference with how he interacts worth other dogs? Obviously not from what we are reading.

shags · Post by **shags** » Mon Nov 17, 2014 9:05 am

Look up 'neutered dog aggression'.

Bluesky2012 · Post by **Bluesky2012** » Mon Nov 17, 2014 3:16 pm

Your dog is probably jealous that the other one is actually a guy dog. I'd be pissed and jealous if someone neutered me.

gonehuntin' · Post by **gonehuntin'** » Mon Nov 17, 2014 3:42 pm

Brazosvalleyvizslas wrote:
Pepper wrote:I understand that, but it is to us to show and continue to show.
No argument but I have been down the road enough times to know that we cant avoid dogs that somehow decide to try to kill each other.

I agree 100%. You can never cure two real fighters. With this dog, thing is to start now and let him know he's a wall flower, not a fighter. Later, it may be too late.

Post by **Sharon** » Mon Nov 17, 2014 3:45 pm

ezzy333 wrote:
shags wrote:
Sharon wrote:I'm told some dogs will want to kill each other their whole life . Thankfully , I've never experienced this and think it must be rare.
I've had that...TWICE. I believe it developed because the dogs were too close together in age. We waited only about 8 months between puppies both times. All was well until they hit around two years old, then all Hades broke loose. For the rest of their lives we had to keep them separated. We tried everything including letting them go at it to settle who is Top Dog. They would have killed each other, seriously.

After the second pair, we've spaced puppies out by several years, so the older ones can put the new guy in its place all along. No more problems, with groups of between 3 and 6 dogs.
I have had the same experience a couple of times and as far as I can tell there is no way to correct it other than keep them separate. That is not unusual in many species.

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

So not "rare." I must have been lucky over the years. Learn something everyday here.

Pepper · Post by **Pepper** » Mon Nov 17, 2014 9:27 pm

Dogs always show signs that they are ready for an attack and their ancestor the wolf as well. Showing teeth is just one example.

Brazosvalleyvizslas · Post by **Brazosvalleyvizslas** » Tue Nov 18, 2014 7:33 am

Pepper wrote:Dogs always show signs that they are ready for an attack and their ancestor the wolf as well. Showing teeth is just one example.

This is not true at all. They don't always show any sign that its about to be on. In fact , the serious fights that shags labeled as "nuclear" are almost NEVER shown in advance. Sorry, but your wrong on this.

big swill · Post by **big swill** » Tue Nov 18, 2014 12:29 pm

Brazosvalleyvizslas wrote:
Pepper wrote:Dogs always show signs that they are ready for an attack and their ancestor the wolf as well. Showing teeth is just one example.
This is not true at all. They don't always show any sign that its about to be on. In fact , the serious fights that shags labeled as "nuclear" are almost NEVER shown in advance. Sorry, but your wrong on this.

I agree with Brazo. I trained K9's for years and no, they don't always show signs. In fact, showing too much teeth, hackling, and lots of barking is viewed as nothing more than posturing in that world (because that's what it is), even with other dogs. Show me a dog that's hackled up and I'll show you a dog that's uncertain about what it's going to do. The dogs you have to worry about are the ones who maintain eye contact and never make a peep, even when they're about to drill another dog. They just go deal with business, no need for them to talk about it. If you think they ALWAYS show signs, you've not seen enough dog aggression.

As far as advice for the OP, I have to agree with the folks who've suggested keeping them seperated if you don't want to deal with what may happen. It was mentioned earlier, but the pecking order has to be establised. They will work it out; someone may get their @$$ whipped, but they will work it out. Every now and then you get a dog or two that's just gamey enough to want to fight all the time. You'll never fix it. It's hardwired. It may behave when you're around, but it's always going to fall back on the hardwiring.

Pepper · Post by **Pepper** » Tue Nov 18, 2014 7:17 pm

The dogs you folks describe above show behavior sign believe it or not. Some are premonition, indication, portent and prediction to name a few. This is my last post on this thread.

To the OP...show your dog who the boss is.

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