Question on coloring of pups

[oilcan]

looking at a planned GSP breeding the sire is solid liver and the Dame is liver/roan ticked.
Typically what color pups would the bitch throw ? what are the chances that any would be born solid liver ?
Any info would be appreciated

[ACooper]

Depending on the genetic make up of the solid liver stud ALL the pups could potentially be solid liver. so the male and female are both "bb" because they are liver. The female is also "ss" or she would also be solid. The male is either "bbSS" or "bbSs" because he is solid liver. So if the male is "SS" all of the pups will be "Ss" so all would appear solid liver but could produce solids and non-solids. If the male is "Ss" there theoretically should be a mix of solids and non-solids.

[mountaindogs]

True. I'll just add that the last mentioned possibility above is most common currently. Simply because you do not see too many solid to solid breedings.

[ACooper]

True. I'll just add that the last mentioned possibility above is most common currently. Simply because you do not see too many solid to solid breedings.

Good point, I should have mentioned that bbSS dogs are not common.

[oilcan]

Thanks for the Reply clear as Mud now. LOL

[ACooper]

Thanks for the Reply clear as Mud now. LOL

The easiest answer to your original question would have been with a solid stud and non solid dam, in "theory" the most likely outcome would be 25% solid 75% non solid, but you never actually know until it happens.


But, let me see if I can clarify the other info. So in GSPs we have Black and Liver. The Alleles for a black dog could be BB or Bb. However the alleles for a liver dog are bb. So a BB dog can only produce black (homozygous), where as a Bb dog is black but can also produce liver (not homozygous for black). Liver is represented by bb, two liver GSPs cannot produce a black pup, only when at least one parent is black can a black be produced.

The solid gene is very similar. SS being homozygous for solid, Ss being solid but able to produce non solids (not homozygous), non solids are represented as ss. So just the same as black one parent has to be solid for a solid pup to be produced.

This is a very basic breakdown and there are many other factors that go into ticking and patching etc.

BBSS is solid black homozygous for both.
BbSS is solid black homozygous for solid
BBSs is solid black homozygous for black
BbSs is solid black and homozygous for neither
BBss is homozygous for black but is not solid
Bbss is non solid black and not homozygous for either
bbSS is solid liver and homozygous for solid
bbSs is solid liver not homozygous for solid
bbss is a non solid liver dog that is not homozygous.


I hope this might clarify a little more? Maybe not? Please ask away, it also helps me to be able to work through the possibilities.

Here is a really good link, I should have saved my typing and just included this! http://www.dogstuff.info/mating_outcomes_gsp_byrne.html

[mtlhdr]

High school science punnett square flashback...NOOOOOOOO!

Edit: ACooper, thanks for taking time to write that up.

[oilcan]

ACooper thanks that does help clear thinks up.

"in "theory" the most likely outcome would be 25% solid 75% non solid"
Thanks for bringing it down to my level. LOL

[phoenix]

Hard question to ask with out sounding off so disclaimer....not trying to be a cactus here (prick). Why the care over color? Trying to learn why it is important in your breeding? Short of throwing the little e in gsp's? Do you find many buyers care that much about color?

[ACooper]

Hard question to ask with out sounding off so disclaimer....not trying to be a cactus here (prick). Why the care over color? Trying to learn why it is important in your breeding? Short of throwing the little e in gsp's? Do you find many buyers care that much about color?

Knowledge is power. Why not know instead of just accept? I like to KNOW the why behind. I am not a breeder just someone who cares and wants to know everything about my breed of choice, but no most folks I run across looking for a pup want what they want, most do not care why or how the color was passed to the pup.

[cjhills]

Most people have a color preference. Which I think is crazy because it limits your pick so much. If you breed to black you have people crawling out of the woodwork. Won't do that again. Most are buyers you don't want..................... Cj

[oilcan]

Thanks guys and phoenix no problem and it's not so much I care as I was curious what determined the color.
I really like the breeding and have already put a deposit on a pup since the OP so I will be taking one regardless of color.

[Hattrick]

I don't think performance guys care about color becouse they pick the best dog not color in a hand picked breeding. The average owner seem to care more about color. Me personly I don't like solid liver or a vary white dog. I just breed my bitch to black male in hopes of keeping a black ticked bitch. 3 black males 2 vary white roan bitchs 4 black ticked bitchs. I keep a white bitch and I hate white but she's right. Pick the dog not color.

[Meller]

I don't think performance guys care about color becouse they pick the best dog not color in a hand picked breeding. The average owner seem to care more about color. Me personly I don't like solid liver or a vary white dog. I just breed my bitch to black male in hopes of keeping a black ticked bitch. 3 black males 2 vary white roan bitchs 4 black ticked bitchs. I keep a white bitch and I hate white but she's right. Pick the dog not color.

I agree with pick the dog not the color, but believe you can have both, given the right litter.

[ACooper]

I don't think performance guys care about color becouse they pick the best dog not color in a hand picked breeding. The average owner seem to care more about color. Me personly I don't like solid liver or a vary white dog. I just breed my bitch to black male in hopes of keeping a black ticked bitch. 3 black males 2 vary white roan bitchs 4 black ticked bitchs. I keep a white bitch and I hate white but she's right. Pick the dog not color.

I agree 100%, I have a solid liver, it has never been my preference, the litter my solid is out of had 5 solid males and one roan male, I had first pick and was going to get the roan dog, I got there and liked one of the solid livers better. It turned out to be a good pick. But, I still don't really like solids.

[oilcan]

Well here is the litter 5 out of six are liver.

Bailey.jpg

[Kstring]

Interesting that the solid allele and the black alleles are dominant...since from what I've seen they are more rare. Tho down here I haven't seen a ton of GSPs so I may just not know enough of them to make such a blanket statement.

Also, as a 9th grade biology teacher I appreciate some good homozygous/heterozygous punnet square talk! Ha

Also remember with all the % possibilities that the likelihood of one color combo is not affected by the color of other pups. The allele combo for each individual are independent of the other pups.