Tests & Competition

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Vonzeppelinkennels
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Tests & Competition

Post by Vonzeppelinkennels » Mon Feb 17, 2014 11:36 am

How many Think Tests are competition? Are you Testing or competing or is it one & the same?

Let me add this I have nothing against tests or any other venues I know very little about the testing venues.I'm just saying in my eyes there is a difference between TESTS & Competition.
I took plenty of tests at school & it never was seen as competitive!
Last edited by Vonzeppelinkennels on Mon Feb 17, 2014 2:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Tests & Competition

Post by Ms. Cage » Mon Feb 17, 2014 12:38 pm

Testing, I'm running or competing against a standard. Competing, head to head with other dogs. No, not the same.

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Re: Tests & Competition

Post by shiloh123 » Mon Feb 17, 2014 1:09 pm

Testing, I'm running or competing against a standard. Competing, head to head with other dogs. No, not the same.
+1

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Re: Tests & Competition

Post by steamer » Mon Feb 17, 2014 1:38 pm

whats the point of this thread?

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Re: Tests & Competition

Post by Vonzeppelinkennels » Mon Feb 17, 2014 1:43 pm

What's the point of any thread? :?

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Re: Tests & Competition

Post by Fun dog » Mon Feb 17, 2014 1:45 pm

Try to tell my dog that a test isn't competition. It may be competition against the standard, but it's still competition for scores.

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Re: Tests & Competition

Post by Sharon » Mon Feb 17, 2014 1:57 pm

Hunt tests were never intended to be a competition for scores. Here that is frowned on and comparison of scores discouraged. Always amuses me that SOME folk who are so anti trial competition are eager to compare scores in tests and NAVHDA.

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Re: Tests & Competition

Post by shags » Mon Feb 17, 2014 2:25 pm

Sharon wrote:Hunt tests were never intended to be a competition for scores. Here that is frowned on and comparison of scores discouraged. Always amuses me that SOME folk who are so anti trial competition are eager to compare scores in tests and NAVHDA.
And always striving to have the "first", "youngest", "oldest", "most", "least" etc :lol: :lol:

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Re: Tests & Competition

Post by JKP » Mon Feb 17, 2014 3:05 pm

Even in a competition, judges are keeping score...a dog's ground race....finds.....style.....cooperation staying to the front....handling....etc.

Now imagine the judges put a number on all of those and declared a winner and listed the numbers totals in order. That's testing. The difference is, I know a lot more about the dogs that didn't place.

When you go to a "test" in Germany, there is a Suchensieger at the end of the day....a winner....a top scoring dog. 211 entries went to Germany this year to the Hegewald and the trophy was given to the winner...just like the past 80 years.

While there have been countless FC over the past 43 years, no dog in North America has ever come close to scoring the maximum number of points in a VGP...the 2 day utility test...and only one dog has ever received the maximum points at the puppy test (VJP). So is it easier to be top dog in FT or testing....I'll let others decide.

So I guess testing is for weanies that can't stand to lose.... :D but another 200+ folks from 6-10 countries will go back to German next year so that 199 can lose.

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Re: Tests & Competition

Post by Vonzeppelinkennels » Mon Feb 17, 2014 3:21 pm

:lol: Thank you JKP now how bout telling the truth about the PMS you sent me in 2011 telling me that you don't like the winner takes all venues because they are about the people not the dogs.

Then some how you perceive that testing is about the dogs & not the people. :?
Last edited by Vonzeppelinkennels on Mon Feb 17, 2014 3:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Tests & Competition

Post by ckirsch » Mon Feb 17, 2014 3:23 pm

Participate in any venues that you happen to enjoy, and don't worry about what anyone else might think. As long as you're paying the entry fee, you're the only one you need to satisfy.

Your dog won't care if it's a test or a trial; either way, he'll be happy to be out of the kennel, doing what he was bred to do.

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Re: Tests & Competition

Post by fuzznut » Mon Feb 17, 2014 3:33 pm

maybe if they let other dogs into their tests, they might just have dogs who score the maximum? Close the system and no one will ever know will they? :wink:

Tests are tests....everyone can pass the test that day.
Competition is competition.. only one winner. The rest may have done everything right, no mistakes made to fail, but they don't take home the blue ribbon.

Problem I see with tests - too many strive just to do enough to pass. And are happy with it.

If anyone wants to know about a dog that is running in trials, all they have to do is go and watch them a couple of times. Ya watch ya learn pretty much all you need to know.

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Re: Tests & Competition

Post by Vonzeppelinkennels » Mon Feb 17, 2014 3:37 pm

I know owners that do both & enjoy both but they will tell you testing is NOT COMPETITION!!

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Re: Tests & Competition

Post by birddogger » Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:03 pm

When I have entered a dog in a test, I in no way felt that I or my dog was competing. The dog is being evaluated and this one reason that the participants are cheering for each other's dog.

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Re: Tests & Competition

Post by Vonzeppelinkennels » Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:08 pm

Charlie even us old arrogant folks cheer for a dog at a F Trial when they are really putting it on the rest of us.So JKP can say all he wants about F Trials being about the people & not the dogs. :D :wink:

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Re: Tests & Competition

Post by ezzy333 » Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:11 pm

Vonzeppelinkennels wrote:I know owners that do both & enjoy both but they will tell you testing is NOT COMPETITION!!
It isn't direct completion between two dogs but it is competition against a standard that has been set by what dogs in the past have done. Both are good but anyone can have a favorite and probably do. But that does not make one better than the other.

I think anyone that runs a trial or a test that does it so they can beat some other dog is missing the point. The point should be that your dog did good in either case and was the best dog in the stake you entered or at least was one of the best dogs in the stake you entered.

Like what you want but forget that you are a better person because of it. Others can like what they like too, and still get to OZ.

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Re: Tests & Competition

Post by Fun dog » Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:17 pm

The competition for scores is for our own use, not to be used against another dog. They also let me know what I need to work on. The goal, for us anyway, is to get the highest score possible so we know we've done our job we'll. I like testing, it gives me something to work towards which gets me out more with my buddies. I also like watching the other dogs and seeing them do well. It's a great time to get together with other dog owners and make new friends.

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Re: Tests & Competition

Post by Vonzeppelinkennels » Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:24 pm

Ezzy I thought I made it clear I don't say one is better than the other to each their own but I don't see any competition in a test.JMO & most others I've talked to about it. :)

I would like an apology from JKP more or less calling me a liar when he denied sending me the PMS that said he didn't like One Winner takes all formats! in the trial decline thread,because F Trials are about the people & not the dogs.

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Re: Tests & Competition

Post by ezzy333 » Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:36 pm

Vonzeppelinkennels wrote:Ezzy I thought I made it clear I don't say one is better than the other to each their own but I don't see any competition in a test.JMO & most others I've talked to about it. :)

I would like an apology from JKP more or less calling me a liar when he denied sending me the PMS that said he didn't like One Winner takes all formats! in the trial decline thread,because F Trials are about the people & not the dogs.
Ted I doubt very much you are going to get it but if you feel you need to have further conversation about it, take it private. It is not something any of us need to hear about.

You did make it clear that you posted that one is no better than the other and started with BUT I don't see any completion in a test. I will use the same excuse you do and just say unless you have tried it don't knock it.

Both are fine things to do with your dog in the off season when we can't hunt as is showing them in conformation classes. All are fun and good.

Ezzy

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Re: Tests & Competition

Post by JKP » Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:42 pm

I thought I made it clear I don't say one is better than the other to each their own but I don't see any competition in a test.JMO & most others I've talked to about it.
How is this not the winner...
Image

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Re: Tests & Competition

Post by JKP » Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:56 pm

:
Image

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Re: Tests & Competition

Post by Vonzeppelinkennels » Mon Feb 17, 2014 5:44 pm

Winner!!!!! My dog not some one else that I bred,did not buy her!!!!!
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Re: Tests & Competition

Post by Vonzeppelinkennels » Mon Feb 17, 2014 6:15 pm

SO if I post that TESTS are not Competition it gets deleted but he can post that his GERMAN test proves the dog that GETS the HIGHEST SCORE is better then any FC in the last 43 yrs & it gets to stay?? :?

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Re: Tests & Competition

Post by ezzy333 » Mon Feb 17, 2014 7:14 pm

Ted I haven't noticed that you were getting behind in an argument that none of need to listen to since all you are arguing is what I like is better than what you like. Either it stops here or I will step into it. I don't like to do that since I think we are all adults on here. Sounds like two little kids calling each other names. He said it first, no he started it. After raising 5 kids I have heard all of it I care to listen to.

I can settle it very quickly but it isn't my place to do it so it is up to you to as to what will be done.

Ezzy

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Re: Tests & Competition

Post by Vonzeppelinkennels » Mon Feb 17, 2014 7:20 pm

Ezzy do what ever you feel necessary like I said no hard feelings.Bye

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Re: Tests & Competition

Post by cjhills » Mon Feb 17, 2014 8:59 pm

Fun dog wrote:The competition for scores is for our own use, not to be used against another dog. They also let me know what I need to work on. The goal, for us anyway, is to get the highest score possible so we know we've done our job we'll. I like testing, it gives me something to work towards which gets me out more with my buddies. I also like watching the other dogs and seeing them do well. It's a great time to get together with other dog owners and make new friends.
Some of the tests give high score trophy. I can tell you I feel really good when I get that............Cj

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Re: Tests & Competition

Post by Vonzeppelinkennels » Wed Sep 24, 2014 3:46 pm

Here is what JKP thinks of Field Trials & Field Champions!! :roll:

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Re: Tests & Competition

Post by RayGubernat » Wed Sep 24, 2014 4:02 pm

JKP wrote:Even in a competition, judges are keeping score...a dog's ground race....finds.....style.....cooperation staying to the front....handling....etc.

Now imagine the judges put a number on all of those and declared a winner and listed the numbers totals in order. That's testing. The difference is, I know a lot more about the dogs that didn't place.

When you go to a "test" in Germany, there is a Suchensieger at the end of the day....a winner....a top scoring dog. 211 entries went to Germany this year to the Hegewald and the trophy was given to the winner...just like the past 80 years.

While there have been countless FC over the past 43 years, no dog in North America has ever come close to scoring the maximum number of points in a VGP...the 2 day utility test...and only one dog has ever received the maximum points at the puppy test (VJP). So is it easier to be top dog in FT or testing....I'll let others decide.

So I guess testing is for weanies that can't stand to lose.... :D but another 200+ folks from 6-10 countries will go back to German next year so that 199 can lose.
JKP -

Sorry there Bud... but you got it wrong. A test is a test. It is possible for every single dog(or no dog at all) to pass that day. In a trial there are on to four placements regardless of how many dogs are entere or how many did an acceptable job.

If a particular test, or trial, for that matter, is restricted in any way or by any means as to breed, then it is only a measure of how good the dogs are...that are allowed into the event.

If the Irish Setter Club of America(or any other breed club) places restrictions on the registration of dogs in the breed so that only certain selected breeders and lines can be registered and therefore participate in the event...that means that whichever dog was "best" in that event is representative of only those selected breeders, lines or individuals.

Making comparisons between having the top score in a test and winning a championship field trial a fool's errand. It is just dumb. It is akin to comparing a diving or gymnastic competition to a decathlon or triathlon. They are both sports, both demanding , both searching for perfection in performance... but are very different and require different skill sets.

Suffice it to say that the very best all age trial dog in the world would very probably not do well at all in the German testing system and the very best dog in the German testing system would almost certainly be completely outclassed and humiliated in a championship all age field trial. They are different sports requiring different types of dogs.

It is one thing to be proud of your dog, your breed and your accomplishments. It is quite another to belittle the dogs, breeds and accomplishments of others.

If I had a DD that passed the top test in the German testing system with high scores...I would be button busting proud. If I had a bird dog that took down a major shooting dog or all age championship. I would be button busting proud. if I had a dog that was awarded a Master Hunter title or a UT-1 Navhda title, I would be button busting proud. If I had a dog that helped me to fill my gamebag, just about every time we went out...I would be button busting proud.

Run what you like...but do not run down what the other guy likes. That is not a class move.

RayG
Last edited by RayGubernat on Wed Sep 24, 2014 7:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Tests & Competition

Post by gonehuntin' » Wed Sep 24, 2014 5:09 pm

There is a huge difference between meeting a standard and winnng a competetion. Testing venues were developep for people that couldn't compete.

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Re: Tests & Competition

Post by Brazosvalleyvizslas » Wed Sep 24, 2014 5:36 pm

Just have fun running your dogs... Its all competition (doesn't matter if your competing against other dogs or to a standard). Just have fun with your dogs.

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Re: Tests & Competition

Post by smoothbean » Wed Sep 24, 2014 8:49 pm

What a great thread!!!
I have not done any tests but do compete in tournament format trials.
I do think getting out and doing something with your dog is the main thing. I personally don't think that a test is competing.
There are lots of valid points here I think that those that say A game creates a more superior dog than those in B game should go "compete" in B game and prove it. I think that those folks would find that different dog qualities as well as training practices for each game may help them put their foot in their mouth.

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Re: Tests & Competition

Post by ckirsch » Fri Sep 26, 2014 9:41 pm

gonehuntin' wrote:There is a huge difference between meeting a standard and winnng a competetion. Testing venues were developep for people that couldn't compete.
How profound.

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Re: Tests & Competition

Post by Brazosvalleyvizslas » Sat Sep 27, 2014 12:41 am

gonehuntin' wrote:There is a huge difference between meeting a standard and winnng a competetion. Testing venues were developep for people that couldn't compete.
That's a stupid statement...

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Re: Tests & Competition

Post by shags » Sat Sep 27, 2014 5:27 am

In a test, you and your dog meet the minimum standard and get a pass - not a good score but a pass nonetheless. In a competition, meet the miminmum and you'll have your rear end handed to you. In fact, you can do the best you've ever done and still have your butt kicked because others' performance was even better.

Some folks can't handle that kind of frustration.

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Re: Tests & Competition

Post by cjhills » Sat Sep 27, 2014 6:06 am

shags wrote:In a test, you and your dog meet the minimum standard and get a pass - not a good score but a pass nonetheless. In a competition, meet the miminmum and you'll have your rear end handed to you. In fact, you can do the best you've ever done and still have your butt kicked because others' performance was even better.

Some folks can't handle that kind of frustration.
Many dogs that meet the minimum standards or do not qualify in hunt tests win in trial format and many FC have no chance in a hunt test. Keep in mind that you can have perfect scores in 5 categories and fail in one an you are done.........................Cj

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Re: Tests & Competition

Post by shags » Sat Sep 27, 2014 6:47 am

If a dog fails in one category, he did not meet the minimum standard.

There are great dogs and not-so-much dogs in every format. There's a game to suit just about anyone and his dog. Go play and have fun.

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Re: Tests & Competition

Post by RayGubernat » Sat Sep 27, 2014 7:17 am

cjhills wrote:
shags wrote:In a test, you and your dog meet the minimum standard and get a pass - not a good score but a pass nonetheless. In a competition, meet the miminmum and you'll have your rear end handed to you. In fact, you can do the best you've ever done and still have your butt kicked because others' performance was even better.

Some folks can't handle that kind of frustration.
Many dogs that meet the minimum standards or do not qualify in hunt tests win in trial format and many FC have no chance in a hunt test. Keep in mind that you can have perfect scores in 5 categories and fail in one an you are done.........................Cj

Sorry I ain';t buyin' that one. That is pure baloney.

A good bird dog is a good bird dog. A good dog will be able to adapt to the requirements of either with proper training and guidance. The only category the field trial dog might need some work on is retrieving, if they are a breed that is not required to retrieve in AKC stakes. The only skill that a hunt test dog might need to develop and hone is the ability to pattern in front of a horse and reach out when it can and should.

I am not saying a FC will automatically and always pass in a Master hunt test any more than I am saying a Master hunter will always ribbon in a field trial. But with the appropriate training and guidance, one should be able to do a creditable job in either venue with a well trained dog.

Now if you were to say that there are some judges who would not place an FC in a hunt test...or there are some judges who would not place a hunt test dog in a field trial... I would(sadly) have to agree. There are some judges that will not place a shorthair in a longtail trial and vice versa.

Bird dogs do not have biases and egos. The best of them live and breathe to find birds. People do... and sometimes those things color judgement. A good bird dog is a good bird dog and a good bird dog will do its best to get the job done, if it involves birds, whatever that job may be.

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Re: Tests & Competition

Post by ckirsch » Sat Sep 27, 2014 11:21 am

shags wrote:In a test, you and your dog meet the minimum standard and get a pass - not a good score but a pass nonetheless. In a competition, meet the miminmum and you'll have your rear end handed to you. In fact, you can do the best you've ever done and still have your butt kicked because others' performance was even better.

Some folks can't handle that kind of frustration.
???

You might get a pass for a "minimum standard" but you won't receive a Pz 1. A qualified NAVHDA dog gets but one shot at the Invitational in a given year, which puts quite a bit of pressure on the dog and handler. (I suppose it could be said that "some folks can't handle that kind of pressure". :D ) While it's indeed true that test dogs don't compete against each other, a test enthusiast could point out that a trial dog can run every weekend, so the old saying about even a blind sow finding an acorn once in a while comes to mind.

I've enjoyed both NAVHDA and NSTRA, and follow AF horseback trials as much as I can. I have tremendous respect for good bird dogs who succeed in any venue. My experience is that a NAVHDA UT or VC dog is likely to be a more useful all-around hunting companion for the average hunter, given the wide range of tasks it's been trained to perform. It's also probably safe to say that the trial dogs typically perform with more speed, style, and flash than most test dogs. Peoples' priorities vary, so it's great that we have options in terms of which games we play with our dogs in the off-season.

If I had a nickel for every time some test guy spouted off about trialists' obsession with 12 o'clock tails and trial dogs ranging too far, or one for every time a trial enthusiast got a little full of himself and made condescending remarks about the inferiority of hunt tests, I'd be pretty wealthy. They're all good venues, too bad so many folks have to be critical about those they don't happen to pursue.

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Re: Tests & Competition

Post by Sharon » Sat Sep 27, 2014 12:17 pm

cjhills wrote:
shags wrote:In a test, you and your dog meet the minimum standard and get a pass - not a good score but a pass nonetheless. In a competition, meet the miminmum and you'll have your rear end handed to you. In fact, you can do the best you've ever done and still have your butt kicked because others' performance was even better.

Some folks can't handle that kind of frustration.
Many dogs that meet the minimum standards or do not qualify in hunt tests win in trial format and many FC have no chance in a hunt test. Keep in mind that you can have perfect scores in 5 categories and fail in one an you are done.........................Cj
That's a too general statement ; more specifically I've seen that in covering the field. My setters who did well in shooting dog trials , didn't do well in hunt tests. The test field is one acre; they circle it 50 times and say, "Is that all there is ?" or skip the field and head straight for the bird field.;)

A friend who did very well in both , would wear his dog out on chain dragging, before his turn to enter the bird field.
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Re: Tests & Competition

Post by Sharon » Sat Sep 27, 2014 12:22 pm

Brazosvalleyvizslas wrote:
gonehuntin' wrote:There is a huge difference between meeting a standard and winnng a competetion. Testing venues were developep for people that couldn't compete.
That's a stupid statement...
That's called a personal attack ; how about an intelligent comment?

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Re: Tests & Competition

Post by Brazosvalleyvizslas » Sat Sep 27, 2014 2:30 pm

Sharon wrote:
Brazosvalleyvizslas wrote:
gonehuntin' wrote:There is a huge difference between meeting a standard and winnng a competetion. Testing venues were developep for people that couldn't compete.
That's a stupid statement...
That's called a personal attack ; how about an intelligent comment?
It was also a personal attack to say that people who COMPETE in Tests cant compete in Trials. I already stated to just choose your game and have fun with your dogs..

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Re: Tests & Competition

Post by RayGubernat » Sat Sep 27, 2014 2:33 pm

ckirsch wrote:
shags wrote:In a test, you and your dog meet the minimum standard and get a pass - not a good score but a pass nonetheless. In a competition, meet the miminmum and you'll have your rear end handed to you. In fact, you can do the best you've ever done and still have your butt kicked because others' performance was even better.

Some folks can't handle that kind of frustration.
???

You might get a pass for a "minimum standard" but you won't receive a Pz 1. A qualified NAVHDA dog gets but one shot at the Invitational in a given year, which puts quite a bit of pressure on the dog and handler. (I suppose it could be said that "some folks can't handle that kind of pressure". :D ) While it's indeed true that test dogs don't compete against each other, a test enthusiast could point out that a trial dog can run every weekend, so the old saying about even a blind sow finding an acorn once in a while comes to mind.

I've enjoyed both NAVHDA and NSTRA, and follow AF horseback trials as much as I can. I have tremendous respect for good bird dogs who succeed in any venue. My experience is that a NAVHDA UT or VC dog is likely to be a more useful all-around hunting companion for the average hunter, given the wide range of tasks it's been trained to perform. It's also probably safe to say that the trial dogs typically perform with more speed, style, and flash than most test dogs. Peoples' priorities vary, so it's great that we have options in terms of which games we play with our dogs in the off-season.

If I had a nickel for every time some test guy spouted off about trialists' obsession with 12 o'clock tails and trial dogs ranging too far, or one for every time a trial enthusiast got a little full of himself and made condescending remarks about the inferiority of hunt tests, I'd be pretty wealthy. They're all good venues, too bad so many folks have to be critical about those they don't happen to pursue.

So a Navhda dog gets only one shot at the invitational? OK. Well they only run the Continental once a year. Same with the National at Ames...once a year. The National Open Shooting dog is only run once a year as well. I am going up to the National Open Pheasant Shooting dog Ch. tomorrow. They only run that once a year as well.

So what was your point? Are you saying the invitational is the only Navhda test worth running in? I really do not know what you are getting at. If you are saying there are more trials than Navhda tests...OK. That may be true, but if it is...Whose fault is that? Whose problem is it?


I don't do hunt tests. Not my thing. but that does not mean anything other than ...they are not my thing. I am sure there are scads and scads of folks out there who would rather hunt over their dogs than anything else and who have little or no interest in participating in either tests OR trials...because it is not their thing. That is fine by me.

I do very much agree with your assessment that they are all good venues. People can have fun with their dogs in lots of different ways and can be challenged to pursue excellence in many different ways. And YES... it takes a good bird dog to do each of them well.

And BTW the blind pig comment was not necessary...or appreciated.



RayG

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Re: Tests & Competition

Post by mnaj_springer » Sat Sep 27, 2014 2:34 pm

Sharon wrote:
Brazosvalleyvizslas wrote:
gonehuntin' wrote:There is a huge difference between meeting a standard and winnng a competetion. Testing venues were developep for people that couldn't compete.
That's a stupid statement...
That's called a personal attack ; how about an intelligent comment?
Unfortunately personal attacks are all too common on this forum.

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Re: Tests & Competition

Post by ckirsch » Sat Sep 27, 2014 3:17 pm

Ray;

My blind pig statement was made in sarcasm, and made about as much sense as those claiming that hunt test folks are afraid of competition. Both statements would be a little shallow and reflect a lack of understanding and appreciation for the challenges each venue presents.

Take another run at the last two paragraphs of my post. Good luck at your trial.

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Re: Tests & Competition

Post by RayGubernat » Sat Sep 27, 2014 6:21 pm

ckirsch wrote:Ray;

My blind pig statement was made in sarcasm, and made about as much sense as those claiming that hunt test folks are afraid of competition. Both statements would be a little shallow and reflect a lack of understanding and appreciation for the challenges each venue presents.

Take another run at the last two paragraphs of my post. Good luck at your trial.

Oops. My apologies. I guess I was being a little over sensitive( yeah right)...or just dense.... Identifying sarcasm was never one of my sharpest interpersonal skills. Just ask my wife...no on second thought, please don't. :lol: :lol:

FWIW, we have a Navhda chapter hereabouts and they are some of the nicest bird dog folks I know. I do enjoy watching the dogs, especially the good ones, but like I said...Just not my thing.

Thanks for the good wishes. She is a first year shooting dog going up against some of the best in the country. We shall see what we shall see. The gamebird is pheasants which have been known to trip up the best of them. I will actually get to handle her in the one hour companion amateur SD stake. That should be a real hoot. Crazy dog, crazy handler and pheasants that run like chickens. Now that is a prescription for disaster...or a lot of fun.

RayG

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Re: Tests & Competition

Post by Sharon » Sat Sep 27, 2014 7:00 pm

"one hour companion amateur SD stake. " quote

How is that different from an amateur shooting dog stake?

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Re: Tests & Competition

Post by cjhills » Sat Sep 27, 2014 9:32 pm

shags wrote:If a dog fails in one category, he did not meet the minimum standard.

There are great dogs and not-so-much dogs in every format. There's a game to suit just about anyone and his dog. Go play and have fun.
Notice I said Many dogs that do not qualify

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Re: Tests & Competition

Post by ezzy333 » Sat Sep 27, 2014 10:04 pm

cjhills wrote:
shags wrote:In a test, you and your dog meet the minimum standard and get a pass - not a good score but a pass nonetheless. In a competition, meet the miminmum and you'll have your rear end handed to you. In fact, you can do the best you've ever done and still have your butt kicked because others' performance was even better.

Some folks can't handle that kind of frustration.
Many dogs that meet the minimum standards or do not qualify in hunt tests win in trial format and many FC have no chance in a hunt test. Keep in mind that you can have perfect scores in 5 categories and fail in one an you are done.........................Cj
I disagree with this. There might be a few but many is just plain overstating it to make your statement look better than it is.

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Re: Tests & Competition

Post by Brazosvalleyvizslas » Sun Sep 28, 2014 2:08 am

ezzy333 wrote:
cjhills wrote:
shags wrote:In a test, you and your dog meet the minimum standard and get a pass - not a good score but a pass nonetheless. In a competition, meet the miminmum and you'll have your rear end handed to you. In fact, you can do the best you've ever done and still have your butt kicked because others' performance was even better.

Some folks can't handle that kind of frustration.
Many dogs that meet the minimum standards or do not qualify in hunt tests win in trial format and many FC have no chance in a hunt test. Keep in mind that you can have perfect scores in 5 categories and fail in one an you are done.........................Cj
I disagree with this. There might be a few but many is just plain overstating it to make your statement look better than it is.
"Many" is a good term but it comes down to several factors. You can earn an FC without ever backing another dog and with weak retrieves so you can forget Obed and let them run.

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Re: Tests & Competition

Post by cjhills » Sun Sep 28, 2014 5:50 am

ezzy333 wrote:
cjhills wrote:
shags wrote:In a test, you and your dog meet the minimum standard and get a pass - not a good score but a pass nonetheless. In a competition, meet the miminmum and you'll have your rear end handed to you. In fact, you can do the best you've ever done and still have your butt kicked because others' performance was even better.

Some folks can't handle that kind of frustration.
Many dogs that meet the minimum standards or do not qualify in hunt tests win in trial format and many FC have no chance in a hunt test. Keep in mind that you can have perfect scores in 5 categories and fail in one an you are done.........................Cj
I disagree with this. There might be a few but many is just plain overstating it to make your statement look better than it is.
First, I very much enjoy all forms of dog competition. it is all competition.
Ray, Just as you find the blind pig statement inappropriate, I find your statement which calls my post bs inappropriate.
Sharon, I have run many hunt tests and I have never seen one held on a one acre field. Maybe where you live but not here.
Ezzy, You can think what you like but many is not overstating and not trying to make my statement look better. It is what it is.
The major difference between MH test and trials is this: the MH dog must give a finish performance without verbal or physical handling. You would be DQ,d for singing, whistle blowing or collaring your dog. You do not have a scout to keep your dog on course. Also you can not hide the fact that a dog will not honor or retrieve, two things I find very important in a bird dog, they must do both to get a pass. Your dog must hunt reasonably close and check in or at be least be seen occasionally.
In the field trials I have seen if your dog covers a lot of ground, finds birds and looks pretty on point, you have a pretty fair chance of a placement. Nothing wrong with that. It is all good.
Again, do whatever you like and do not worry about what the other guy is doing. My way is not better or worse it is just different. Enjoy..................Cj

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