Pheasant Tracking

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RichK
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Pheasant Tracking

Post by RichK » Tue Oct 01, 2013 2:11 pm

I purchased a few pheasant this weekend to use for training my dog for the NAVHDA pheasant tracking part of the NA test. How do I pull or cut the flight feathers to prevent the bird from flying?

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deke
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Re: Pheasant Tracking

Post by deke » Tue Oct 01, 2013 2:18 pm

Grab a wing, and cut a handful of feathers off the wing, repeat on the otherside. Even if you take to many it should only take the bird about six weeks to grow new back.

onuhunter02
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Re: Pheasant Tracking

Post by onuhunter02 » Tue Oct 01, 2013 2:20 pm

What I did was pull the flight feathers out of one wing and the bird did not fly (I just pulled them out by hand with no issues). I was told you do not want to pull the flight feathers out of both wings because the bird will have balance and could still fly (not real well but still capable of flying). It seemed to work when I did it at least the bird did not fly. I was told to also pull some of the chest feathers out and place them in a pile where you let the bird go.

RichK
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Re: Pheasant Tracking

Post by RichK » Tue Oct 01, 2013 2:28 pm

Thanks, I'm planning to run him on the tracking practice tomorrow. Hopefully it goes well! How far is the tracking distance during the NA test?

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DonF
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Re: Pheasant Tracking

Post by DonF » Tue Oct 01, 2013 4:19 pm

I would pull he flight feather's, not cut. You pull a pigeons feather's and they grow back pretty soon. You cut them and they don't come back until they molt.

RichK
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Re: Pheasant Tracking

Post by RichK » Tue Oct 01, 2013 4:52 pm

DonF wrote:I would pull he flight feather's, not cut. You pull a pigeons feather's and they grow back pretty soon. You cut them and they don't come back until they molt.
The feathers I want to pull are the ones farthest out?

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millerms06
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Re: Pheasant Tracking

Post by millerms06 » Tue Oct 01, 2013 4:57 pm

Definitely pull the primary flight feathers off one wing, yes the front half, and pull some of the breast feathers onuhunter mentioned. Another trick that can help is wet the bird a tad if the scenting conditions are less than favorable. More success during training the better I say!

Distance can be forty sometimes longer, really depends on the bird interest in running. Clapping and walking to get the bird to run helps the bird travel farther. Judges are looking how straight of a line the dog will take, not if it grabs the bird or points the bird. But in my opinion, one is really better than the other. When my dog did the tracking portion, it took her thirty - forty yards before she locked on point with the bird. Once that happens the judges usually insist on picking your dog up. Pointing the bird will get your dog an additional point toward the overall computing of the score. Again, its nice but not detrimental if the pup doesn't point during the track.

Biggest key is do not let the dog see you when you bring the pheasant out and let it go. Both you and the dog are not supposed to watch the judges' prep the field during the test. The judges call you and your dog to a clump of the bird's feathers and give you a general idea what direction the bird ran to. Once you let the dog go, you stay put and do not say a word. The dog may go the wrong direction: keep looking toward the direction the bird went. A big thing to not overlook is getting the dog used to waiting too. You might not be first and you should try to get the dog calm before you go out there. Then get the dog focused on the feathers on the ground before you direct the dog on the perceived direction when you let go.

If you knew some of these things already, I apologize. I was just trying to be as helpful as I could with my response.

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Re: Pheasant Tracking

Post by RichK » Tue Oct 01, 2013 6:13 pm

millerms06 wrote:Definitely pull the primary flight feathers off one wing, yes the front half, and pull some of the breast feathers onuhunter mentioned. Another trick that can help is wet the bird a tad if the scenting conditions are less than favorable. More success during training the better I say!

Distance can be forty sometimes longer, really depends on the bird interest in running. Clapping and walking to get the bird to run helps the bird travel farther. Judges are looking how straight of a line the dog will take, not if it grabs the bird or points the bird. But in my opinion, one is really better than the other. When my dog did the tracking portion, it took her thirty - forty yards before she locked on point with the bird. Once that happens the judges usually insist on picking your dog up. Pointing the bird will get your dog an additional point toward the overall computing of the score. Again, its nice but not detrimental if the pup doesn't point during the track.

Biggest key is do not let the dog see you when you bring the pheasant out and let it go. Both you and the dog are not supposed to watch the judges' prep the field during the test. The judges call you and your dog to a clump of the bird's feathers and give you a general idea what direction the bird ran to. Once you let the dog go, you stay put and do not say a word. The dog may go the wrong direction: keep looking toward the direction the bird went. A big thing to not overlook is getting the dog used to waiting too. You might not be first and you should try to get the dog calm before you go out there. Then get the dog focused on the feathers on the ground before you direct the dog on the perceived direction when you let go.

If you knew some of these things already, I apologize. I was just trying to be as helpful as I could with my response.
Nope, I didn't know any of that so the info is appreciated. I'm hoping to get him a Prize I in his NA test as well as get him his AKC JH title before the end of next summer.

I think at 8 months old now, he is in a good position to complete both by next summer but I need to work on fine tuning a few things with him. Pointing and nose work being the main two.

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SpinoneIllinois
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Re: Pheasant Tracking

Post by SpinoneIllinois » Tue Oct 01, 2013 7:27 pm

The pheasant track is the really unpredictable portion of the test. I've seen some great-looking dogs blow it. I'm convinced there's some luck required to do well on the track.
My limited practice consisted of dragging/bouncing a thawed chukar or pheasant, and the pup absolutely nailed her track -- a very long one. During practice, I tapped on the ground at the starting point and used the command "track." After a few repetitions she seemed to get the idea: follow the scent on the ground.

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Re: Pheasant Tracking

Post by Trekmoor » Wed Oct 02, 2013 5:04 am

I don't understand the reason for this tracking test. Is the idea to simulate a bird that has ran from the point or to simulate a wounded bird which has ran ?

Bill T.

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Ruffshooter
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Re: Pheasant Tracking

Post by Ruffshooter » Wed Oct 02, 2013 5:38 am

Bill:
This Natural ability test is to show the dogs use of nose to find its objective. It is to track a live pheasant, could be wounded, or just a run off. As you know sometimes when pulling the primaries there will be a minute amount of blood initially. Another part that is scored is cooperation, and hopefully the pup finds the bird and can have opportunity to point. That is not required to pass this part of the NA test. (As some times the bird runs out of hte country so I can take to much time) They also note desire during the track.

The way it is set up: ( Kind of looks silly with 3 guys chasing a bird so it will run away)
They pull the a few primaries on one wing put in a pile, some pull a few breast feathers.
Release the pheasant, (chase it if it wont cooperate) so it goes out 80 or 100 yards. (the puppy does not see the bird nor the handler. the judge brings them to the release, shows the first 10ft or so of the track, the handler hold the pup by color or lead and watches the dog to see if it has picked up the scent, once they believe it is some what focused on the track you release the pup and stand there and let the pup track. The judges know where the track went and the basic area where the pheasant ended up.
So they watch how the pup works the track using wind, if it loses the track if it comes back to it and keeps moving forward down the track.

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Re: Pheasant Tracking

Post by Trekmoor » Wed Oct 02, 2013 12:46 pm

Thanks for the explanation Ruffshooter. I have only taken part in one tracking event in my life but that was for tracking wounded deer. My 6 month pup started well but the wind changed a bit and he winded the "deer." He went straight to it missing out the dog-leg in the track and therefor failed the track component of those tests. He did very well in the hunting, pointing (caged quail) and retrieving from land and water but in order to gain a "Pass" the dogs had to pass in all the tests components or get no award at all.

Those tests are ran by Britains Large Munsterlander Club and I thought they were very good. Been interesting to read how you lads on your side of the pond do things , we would be banned by law from using live birds here.

Bill T.

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Re: Pheasant Tracking

Post by aulrich » Wed Oct 02, 2013 1:38 pm

One thing that I was taught was to do tracking with a tail wind if possible, that way they have to use the trail scent, not any stray air sent. I also started mine on fresh dead vs live.

dsmtsi
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Re: Pheasant Tracking

Post by dsmtsi » Wed Oct 02, 2013 4:17 pm

I had a helper pull the first 10 or so feathers on one wing and along with some butt feathers made a pile. Got the bird to run and we came around and I let her go on the sent. She wanted to hunt a bit and started to seacrch but found the sent and tracked. I've only done a two pratice tracks NAVHDA people say don't do to many, pups get tired of them and if done to many times can affect point.

I've done two in mock tests and my issue was calming her down to get on the track she just wants to GO! It took a bit both times to get on the track but once she did she tracked very well, both times they said I would have gotten a 4. I hope the same pup shows up this Friday!

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Brazosvalleyvizslas
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Re: Pheasant Tracking

Post by Brazosvalleyvizslas » Fri Oct 04, 2013 1:47 pm

I dont do it because it does effect other things including how they point. If you dont compete in Trials then maybe it wont hurt you but I have not found ANY reason why this part of the test is useful.

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Ruffshooter
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Re: Pheasant Tracking

Post by Ruffshooter » Sat Oct 05, 2013 4:37 pm

Brazosvalleyvizslas wrote:I dont do it because it does effect other things including how they point. If you dont compete in Trials then maybe it wont hurt you but I have not found ANY reason why this part of the test is useful.
IMO Really?
Sorry It does not.

cbump
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Re: Pheasant Tracking

Post by cbump » Mon Oct 21, 2013 12:42 pm

One thing I would do is run your dog first and make sure he is calm and a little tired for the track. You want him focused rather than ready to charge out on a search. Find where the wind is blowing and circle your dog by the collar into the wind up to the pile of feathers and when you know he's on it walk him a few steps in the direction the judge tells you and just let him go. Then stand back and watch.

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Re: Pheasant Tracking

Post by onuhunter02 » Mon Oct 21, 2013 5:06 pm

When handling the pheasant to pull out the feathers one trick I was taught is with your gloves on hold the bird so one hand wraps around the bird and grab firmly on the chest compressing it with your fingers with your thumb wrap over the wing over the top of the body keeping the one wing flush with the body. When I did that the bird did not move at all and it was simple to pull the flight fathers.

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