No prob with what you said. Just curious why you deleted it.ACooper wrote:When I posted I hadn't read the rest of your posts, and I was trying to think of a way to say it without sounding like an "bleep". LolRicky Ticky Shorthairs wrote:What's up with that, Andy?
Doug
Cajun Casey wrote:PM me your address and I'll send you my spare currencey checker.Ricky Ticky Shorthairs wrote:I'm kinda partial, but those Slick type dogs sure do win a lot on the national level. Just sayin. But then again, until I get Rob's 10 dollars I won't have a clue.
Doug
Doug,Ricky Ticky Shorthairs wrote:I'm kinda partial, but those Slick type dogs sure do win a lot on the national level. Just sayin. But then again, until I get Rob's 10 dollars I won't have a clue.
Doug
Why do you think I have them. You're not telling me anything new. I know exactly what I have. I'm not denying that.GrayDawg wrote:Doug,Ricky Ticky Shorthairs wrote:I'm kinda partial, but those Slick type dogs sure do win a lot on the national level. Just sayin. But then again, until I get Rob's 10 dollars I won't have a clue.
Doug
You need to take a good, long look at what's back there in those Slick dogs.
Rob
So you own dogs that you know are crosses between Pointers and GSPs, and you have no problem registering them as GSPs?Ricky Ticky Shorthairs wrote:Why do you think I have them. You're not telling me anything new. I know exactly what I have. I'm not denying that.GrayDawg wrote:Doug,Ricky Ticky Shorthairs wrote:I'm kinda partial, but those Slick type dogs sure do win a lot on the national level. Just sayin. But then again, until I get Rob's 10 dollars I won't have a clue.
Doug
You need to take a good, long look at what's back there in those Slick dogs.
Rob
Sorry you're still not smarter than me.
Doug
I said "every GSP", not "every GSP/pointer cross".Ricky Ticky Shorthairs wrote:Like I said before every was your word not mine.
Doug
Do you even read what you're replying to? Or are you one of those guys who likes to hear his own voice? Never mind, I already know the answer to that.GrayDawg wrote:I said "every GSP", not "every GSP/pointer cross".Ricky Ticky Shorthairs wrote:Like I said before every was your word not mine.
Doug
So by my own definition and your admitted culpability.........
Your dogs are out!
Rob
I'd call that an educated opinion..GrayDawg wrote:
Two years ago & three years ago, I was fortunate enough to head out west for some bird hunting. On those two extended trips, I was able to take in the
NGSPA Chukar Championship, the NGSPA Sharptail Championship, the NGSPA Prairie Chicken Championship, the NGSPA Region 8 Championship & the NGSPA Hun Championship. While I was not able to see all of those championships both years, I was able to ride at least one day in each of the aforementioned trials over the course of two years. The Sharptail Championship I made both years and I rode two days of the Hun Championship & the Prairie Chicken Championship.
So that is the basis for my comparative observation between GSP's and Pointers. I've been and watched the biggest running GSPs in the biggest venues the lower 48 has to offer. Heck, I've seen bigger running Pointers at the Alabama Open Shooting Dog Championship, one doesn't even need to go to the Continental Championship....... it's a totally different game. If you haven't been to the Continental, stop announcing to everyone here on the board what you are completely unaware of. Or have you been to the Continental and are in a position to make a well founded comparative observation between BIG running Pointers versus that of BIG running GSPs?
My GSP came from AKC Hunt Test stock with a couple FC's thrown in....... nowhere near the same ballpark of some of the top GSP field trial dogs- not even close. But then again, my dog had nothing to do with my post that you replied to.
Have a safe & successful hunting season,
Rob
Then the fact that there has never been one on the steps at Ames after winning the real National. I have many buddies that run shorthairs. Heck I even have one here and I've been on quite a few good hunts with them. But a runner from Kenya will always come out winning the marathon before the linebacker from the Steelers will. Crossing two great athletes in their own respects will get you a spork. I'd rather buy a spoon and a fork and keep them as is for their intended purpose.gotpointers wrote:I'd call that an educated opinion..GrayDawg wrote:
Two years ago & three years ago, I was fortunate enough to head out west for some bird hunting. On those two extended trips, I was able to take in the
NGSPA Chukar Championship, the NGSPA Sharptail Championship, the NGSPA Prairie Chicken Championship, the NGSPA Region 8 Championship & the NGSPA Hun Championship. While I was not able to see all of those championships both years, I was able to ride at least one day in each of the aforementioned trials over the course of two years. The Sharptail Championship I made both years and I rode two days of the Hun Championship & the Prairie Chicken Championship.
So that is the basis for my comparative observation between GSP's and Pointers. I've been and watched the biggest running GSPs in the biggest venues the lower 48 has to offer. Heck, I've seen bigger running Pointers at the Alabama Open Shooting Dog Championship, one doesn't even need to go to the Continental Championship....... it's a totally different game. If you haven't been to the Continental, stop announcing to everyone here on the board what you are completely unaware of. Or have you been to the Continental and are in a position to make a well founded comparative observation between BIG running Pointers versus that of BIG running GSPs?
My GSP came from AKC Hunt Test stock with a couple FC's thrown in....... nowhere near the same ballpark of some of the top GSP field trial dogs- not even close. But then again, my dog had nothing to do with my post that you replied to.
Have a safe & successful hunting season,
Rob
Do you have any proof it's not happening?S&J gsp wrote:I heard this for many years and now it is up again just a question does anyone have any proof of this happening or is it all hear say. I mean hard proof like a photo of the mating or someone that has seen it happen. In my opinion if it did happen it was long ago and now we are not doing a fine breed any justice in getting on open forum and telling each other this line is better than that line.
S&J gsp wrote:Your right I don't have any proof it is not happening. I know that when I started hunting shorthairs it was unheard of to see a clean white body. So if it was happening it was well hid now not so much so when you see lemon and white shorthairs. If it did happen some years ago they culled right as to add what they wanted to win. Not saying it was right just that they culled the undesirable and if it is still going on today eventually DNA will catch who ever is cheating to win and I hope they receive the punishment they deserve. With that being said I'll keep running the shorthairs I have and be happy because they suit me and I'm feeding them
Bob,remmy wrote:Rob, those championships you mentioned are, for the most part, frequented by the same few pros. The chukar you will only see some west coast dogs. The region 8 and Hun you will only see one or two pros with most of the dogs owned by one person...im not knocking them, just stating a fact. The sharptail and chicken you will have one or two different pros from the midwest. Have you been to Eureka? Booneville? How about a championship east of the Mississippi? Region 4, 5, Great Lakes, Ohio, Wye Island? We've got some big running dogs in these trials here.
If you are referring to AA dogs that's one thing. Shooting dogs, however, I do not see a difference other that style. I've been to a few Pointer Shooting dog championships and trials. The pointers have more class but as far as running bigger...I don't think so. I ran my GSP in some pointer trials and flat out left the pointers in the dust. Lost her one time and another I had the trial won flat out and my dog screwed up on her last find. The judge was in such disbelief because he said she won it.
Being to those few championships does not allow you to say you have seen the best or biggest running GSP's in the country because those dogs only represent a small percentage of the GSP's running in championships.
I've been asked by a bunch of pointer guys who judge some of our trials"Why do you guys (GSP's) care so much about the run? We want our dogs to hunt." That comes from pointer guys. Have you been to Wye Island? The Pointer guys don't run there because its basically a race course with long edges. The dogs run really big there!
What happened in the past happened because they wanted to better our breed, which, by the way, they accomplished. Does it still happen today? Probably but so what? I don't do it and I don't care. That doesn't make our dogs mutts. I've heard it done with Brits, Vizslas, Weims too. It happens. So what. If you don't like it you don't have to buy one of those dogs.
Pointers are not the end all.
You'll never prove anyone wrong with that attitude.Ricky Ticky Shorthairs wrote: Slistoe-I'm not stupid. I have some "bleep" nice shorthairs, but do you really think they would put a gsp up at the Continental?
Doug
Guilty till proven innocent?ACooper wrote:Do you have any proof it's not happening?S&J gsp wrote:I heard this for many years and now it is up again just a question does anyone have any proof of this happening or is it all hear say. I mean hard proof like a photo of the mating or someone that has seen it happen. In my opinion if it did happen it was long ago and now we are not doing a fine breed any justice in getting on open forum and telling each other this line is better than that line.
I have a DNA certificate of a pup that is out of a DNA'd FC/AFC GSP female and DNA's AKC Nat. Ch. RU male pointer.slistoe wrote:Guilty till proven innocent?ACooper wrote:Do you have any proof it's not happening?S&J gsp wrote:I heard this for many years and now it is up again just a question does anyone have any proof of this happening or is it all hear say. I mean hard proof like a photo of the mating or someone that has seen it happen. In my opinion if it did happen it was long ago and now we are not doing a fine breed any justice in getting on open forum and telling each other this line is better than that line.
Details were posted on pg 3 of this thread.
I never said my dog could win that. That is not one of my goals. Nobody said anybody was biased or political. You and Rob must have went to the same school of comprehension. Both of you sure do read a lot of what isn't there.slistoe wrote:You'll never prove anyone wrong with that attitude.Ricky Ticky Shorthairs wrote: Slistoe-I'm not stupid. I have some "bleep" nice shorthairs, but do you really think they would put a gsp up at the Continental?
Doug
I believe that if you bring a good enough dog to win the stake you will be given your due.
But it is easier to just say you can and that they are all biased and political.
So what you meant when you said "but do you really think they would put a gsp up at the Continental?" you meant that the GSP simply wouldn't measure up to the rest of the dogs to warrant a placement?Ricky Ticky Shorthairs wrote:I never said my dog could win that. That is not one of my goals. Nobody said anybody was biased or political. You and Rob must have went to the same school of comprehension. Both of you sure do read a lot of what isn't there.slistoe wrote:You'll never prove anyone wrong with that attitude.Ricky Ticky Shorthairs wrote: Slistoe-I'm not stupid. I have some "bleep" nice shorthairs, but do you really think they would put a gsp up at the Continental?
Doug
I believe that if you bring a good enough dog to win the stake you will be given your due.
But it is easier to just say you can and that they are all biased and political.
Doug
I think what he really ASKED was do YOU think they would put a GSP up.So what you meant when you said "but do you really think they would put a gsp up at the Continental?" you meant that the GSP simply wouldn't measure up to the rest of the dogs to warrant a placement?
Once again, your comprehension skills failed you. See Ezzy's post. He got it. Do you think they would put a gsp up?slistoe wrote:So what you meant when you said "but do you really think they would put a gsp up at the Continental?" you meant that the GSP simply wouldn't measure up to the rest of the dogs to warrant a placement?Ricky Ticky Shorthairs wrote:I never said my dog could win that. That is not one of my goals. Nobody said anybody was biased or political. You and Rob must have went to the same school of comprehension. Both of you sure do read a lot of what isn't there.slistoe wrote: You'll never prove anyone wrong with that attitude.
I believe that if you bring a good enough dog to win the stake you will be given your due.
But it is easier to just say you can and that they are all biased and political.
Doug
Other than your panties, which already appear to be in a bunch? Nope!Ricky Ticky Shorthairs wrote: Did I miss anything? Or is there something else you want to twist?
Doug
GrayDawg wrote:Other than your panties, which already appear to be in a bunch? Nope!Ricky Ticky Shorthairs wrote: Did I miss anything? Or is there something else you want to twist?
Doug
Rob
There are people who have spent much more than that, and more who would be willing to try....................Cajun Casey wrote:No one will ever spend the $50K or so it would take to put a shorthair at the top of the American FIeld game and most owner handlers don't have the time.
No doubt there has been tons of money spent on trialing GSPs, however how many folks do you think will spend the ADDITIONAL 50K? The GSP people are focused on running GSP trials for the most part. There aren't to many willing try or they would be trying.cjhills wrote:There are people who have spent much more than that, and more who would be willing to try....................Cajun Casey wrote:No one will ever spend the $50K or so it would take to put a shorthair at the top of the American FIeld game and most owner handlers don't have the time.
I believe I already answered that the first time.Ricky Ticky Shorthairs wrote: Do you think they would put a gsp up?
Doug
Noslistoe wrote:I believe I already answered that the first time.Ricky Ticky Shorthairs wrote: Do you think they would put a gsp up?
Doug
So, reading comprehension lesson again - What did you mean by "I'm not stupid." What do the "smart" people think?
So, smart money says that a GSP would not be put up at a trial such as the Continental. Is that because the GSP's aren't good enough to win at that level?Ricky Ticky Shorthairs wrote:Noslistoe wrote:I believe I already answered that the first time.Ricky Ticky Shorthairs wrote: Do you think they would put a gsp up?
Doug
So, reading comprehension lesson again - What did you mean by "I'm not stupid." What do the "smart" people think?
Black and liver pointers can also carry the "e" gene.dead mike wrote:Im willing to bet the guys with gsp's that are serious about trialing and wanting the best dogs available probably all have some EP in their somewhere, and im thinking some of these guys are arguing with each other. Also, to bad about the lemon colour coming up in some of the gsp's mentioned, they should have bred it to a black or brown EP.
I need to ask though, setters and EP's are absolutely the best at the trial game, if you were serious about making it to the next level why not just a few? I have owned mostly german dogs and just recently got into poiinters, i sure dont notice any difference between personality or hunting ability.
I can't agree with this. I think you will find beagles will beat a pointer in most beagle field trials and pointers would win in most pointer trials. When we learn to judge dogs to their own standard instead of to the pointer standard then we will have a truer picture of what each breed brings to the table. Each are just as good at what they were bred to do as a pointer.dead mike wrote:
I need to ask though, setters and EP's are absolutely the best at the trial game, if you were serious about making it to the next level why not just a few? I have owned mostly german dogs and just recently got into poiinters, i sure dont notice any difference between personality or hunting ability.
Gee Ezzy you aren't going to ruin this thread by saying something that actually makes sense are you?ezzy333 wrote:I can't agree with this. I think you will find beagles will beat a pointer in most beagle field trials and pointers would win in most pointer trials. When we learn to judge dogs to their own standard instead of to the pointer standard then we will have a truer picture of what each breed brings to the table. Each are just as good at what they were bred to do as a pointer.dead mike wrote:
I need to ask though, setters and EP's are absolutely the best at the trial game, if you were serious about making it to the next level why not just a few? I have owned mostly german dogs and just recently got into poiinters, i sure dont notice any difference between personality or hunting ability.
Ezzy
This has to be one of the best and most correct comments I have read !ezzy333 wrote:I can't agree with this. I think you will find beagles will beat a pointer in most beagle field trials and pointers would win in most pointer trials. When we learn to judge dogs to their own standard instead of to the pointer standard then we will have a truer picture of what each breed brings to the table. Each are just as good at what they were bred to do as a pointer.dead mike wrote:
I need to ask though, setters and EP's are absolutely the best at the trial game, if you were serious about making it to the next level why not just a few? I have owned mostly german dogs and just recently got into poiinters, i sure dont notice any difference between personality or hunting ability.
Ezzy
While that sounds profound, I don't know how to judge pointing dogs of different breeds to different standards. I have judged a good many trials, and I can recognize and explain the differences in All-Age, Shooting Dog, and Walking Shooting Dog/Gun Dog, but I sure don't understand what I would expect from a GSP Shooting Dog that I wouldn't from a pointer Shooting Dog.ezzy333 wrote:I can't agree with this. I think you will find beagles will beat a pointer in most beagle field trials and pointers would win in most pointer trials. When we learn to judge dogs to their own standard instead of to the pointer standard then we will have a truer picture of what each breed brings to the table. Each are just as good at what they were bred to do as a pointer.dead mike wrote:
I need to ask though, setters and EP's are absolutely the best at the trial game, if you were serious about making it to the next level why not just a few? I have owned mostly german dogs and just recently got into poiinters, i sure dont notice any difference between personality or hunting ability.
Ezzy
Maybe you should read this thread, since that's what it's about. :shock:markj wrote:I belive a pointer shorthair i for sale in the classifieds. It is lemon and white, going for 500.00 WTF??? is it me or am I going nutso? When did lemon become a shorthair color? is this another german thing? lol like black? I am soooooo confused right now...... Think I will go fishing
