Bought a new GSP but trainer wants more $$ for papers

[kabergmann]

Just wondering if this is normal practice. I just assumed that purchasing the dog would include the AKC paperwork. Is that something one usually has to stipulate at the purchase or is it more often just handed over?

Thanks

Karl

[RayGubernat]

I don't generally deal in AKC dogs, but if I do not get the FDSB paperwork to register the dog, there is no sale. Not to me anyhow.

A dog without papers is a mutt, no matter what the seller says. A dog without papers is a mutt. Period. And just how much is a mutt worth?

RayG

[SpinoneIllinois]

That doesn't smell right. How much more does he want?

[Cicada]

Years ago I had to get CKC to track down a breeder to get a the papers registered. They were not happy that she sold the litter as CKC registered but completed the process.

Grant

[DoubleBarrel GunDogs]

Some breeders don't give registration rights until the pup is 2 years old and good test results for OFA is submitted to them. This is normally an effort to limit indiscriminate and irresponsible breeding. I've found this to be the case with some of the Boykin Spaniel breeders, who desire to uphold a high breeding standard. As for the prospect of gouging you for more money for registration? That sounds pretty shady, and should have been included or at least discussed when you purchased the pup.

Nate

[kninebirddog]

There are plenty of other quality breeders that do not play games like that..

[cjhills]

Some breeders withhold papers until the dog has proven himself in some way. Some require a title of some sort, generally NAVHDA NA. I have always felt like this is promoting the breeders kennel at the buyers expense. I guess the seller can do what he wants but it should be spelled out ahead of time. There are a lot of good breeders and good puppies out there. Most breeders with restrictions change their mind if you tell them you are backing out. Get the sign certificate before the money changes hands. Cj

[markj]

I see you are in Omaha, ? I have a nice litter of shorthairs I might have one left. They come with papers too.

I have seen folks give out "Limited" registrations until the dog proved itself in some fashion like a show Ch or FT put on it. But extra for papers sounds like black mail.

Good luck with the pup.

[Doc E]

This should have been told to you right up front.
As 'cjhills' said, some breeders will sell on a "Limited Registration" until certain terms and obligations have been met by the new owner. Some will sell on limited registration and for an additional fee will make it full registration in order to have breeding rights etc.
But NO PAPERS ? Smells fishy to me too.
Why wasn't this told to you or why wasn't it in the contact ? Or was there even a contract ?



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[roaniecowpony]

If you're not going to compete or breed, or sell the dog, papers don't do anything for you. But not having them will limit you if you change your mind.

[CDN_Cocker]

Shady. I don't know much about the AKC but the CKC has regulations against that. If the dog/litter can be registered, the papers must be given at time of sale and they cannot sell puppies for a different price with/without papers.

[Cajun Casey]

Is this a puppy or an adult dog? Sounds like you got it from someone other than the breeder.

[RoostersMom]

Papers should come with the dog - your "breeder" should have outlined all of this upfront. I bought a dog on "limited" registration, which was understood from day 1. When I decided to show him, the breeder changed the registration from limited to full. There was no price differential in the differing registration types.

Selling a mediocre (conformation) dog with full registration is something some breeders just won't do - they don't want that dog to be a part of the breeding pool for the breed. Way better, IMO, than the archaic practice of culling dogs from the litter.

Your person sounds greedy and didn't do a very good job communicating with you - I would look elsewhere for a pup - there are many reputable breeders out there - it sounds like you didn't find one of them. This will be hurdle number one of MANY, MANY more with this dog and breeder if you continue a relationship. There are a ton of excellent litters on this site with breeders that will provide you with a lifelong link to training/hunting/testing your dog if you want to do those things. A good breeder/buyer relationship is something that will benefit you and your dog for a lifetime.

I'd look elsewhere - or just be willing to accept an inferior situation. A good relationship with a breeder can help you so much as you raise and train your dog. Dogs are a dime a dozen...really, they are. The relationship you build with a breeder/trainer is something that will last long past this dog's lifetime. You'll grow as a trainer with a good mentor and you'll have a much more fulfilling relationship with the dog.

[Ms. Cage]

Some breeders withhold papers until the dog has proven himself in some way. Some require a title of some sort, generally NAVHDA NA.

I have not seen a NAVHDA breeder withhold papers until there is a title on the dog. Some will give a limited reg. until there is a NA title. I would not buy a pup from a breeder that sell on this bases.

[Doc E]

Following is a line from a Lab breeder's website in MN --- This is 'spelled out' and fully explained in the contract as well.

"Please note: prices listed are gundog prices, limited AKC registration is included at this price. Please call to discuss possible full registration and price with breeding rights."



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[kabergmann]

I am clearing it up with them right now. They will sell him to me as a Limited Registration as they want to control the breeding. If I want to go to a full registration it would be more money. The dog is trained and is 14 months old. The place I bought him from is a good breeder and has a good reputation. I am new to AKC stuff and didn't know to ask about it. I assumed it was like selling a car, you sign the title over. Cars cant reproduce though. Either way I am satisfied and they did a great job on training the dog.

Sorry 3 dogs is my max....I am sure the GSP is pretty but I got all I can handle.

Thanks,

Karl

[Cajun Casey]

I am clearing it up with them right now. They will sell him to me as a Limited Registration as they want to control the breeding. If I want to go to a full registration it would be more money. The dog is trained and is 14 months old. The place I bought him from is a good breeder and has a good reputation. I am new to AKC stuff and didn't know to ask about it. I assumed it was like selling a car, you sign the title over. Cars cant reproduce though. Either way I am satisfied and they did a great job on training the dog.

Sorry 3 dogs is my max....I am sure the GSP is pretty but I got all I can handle.

Thanks,

Karl

A hold back pup that never had his papers turned in will have accrued some penalties on the registration fee. That may the case here. Nothing wrong with adding that to the price, they should have just included it without the option and been done with it.

[RayGubernat]

Just went and read the AKC writeup on limited registration. Chalk it up to continuing education.

Seems that the only two things you cannot do with that dog are compete in conformation type dog shows or breed the dog. Everything else is permitted under a limited registration.

I still think it is a bunch of baloney, and would be a deal killer for me, but it is what it is and if it works for you, that is really all that matters.

RayG

[kabergmann]

True... it is what it is....next time I will know better. Realistically I may neuter my dog anyway so a limited registration is fine for now.

Karl

[cjhills]

Some breeders withhold papers until the dog has proven himself in some way. Some require a title of some sort, generally NAVHDA NA.

I have not seen a NAVHDA breeder withhold papers until there is a title on the dog. Some will give a limited reg. until there is a NA title. I would not buy a pup from a breeder that sell on this bases.

Sorry about that. I was thinking limited registration rather than withholding. I still think it is a phony way of getting buyers to promote kennels and what makes titles like hunt test sire and dam of the year a bit of a joke. Cj

[AZ Brittany Guy]

I am clearing it up with them right now. They will sell him to me as a Limited Registration as they want to control the breeding. If I want to go to a full registration it would be more money. The dog is trained and is 14 months old. The place I bought him from is a good breeder and has a good reputation. I am new to AKC stuff and didn't know to ask about it. I assumed it was like selling a car, you sign the title over. Cars cant reproduce though. Either way I am satisfied and they did a great job on training the dog.

Sorry 3 dogs is my max....I am sure the GSP is pretty but I got all I can handle.

Thanks,

Karl

A hold back pup that never had his papers turned in will have accrued some penalties on the registration fee. That may the case here. Nothing wrong with adding that to the price, they should have just included it without the option and been done with it.

I think you hit the nail on the head. The seller just should have included the late registration cost in the selling price to avoid the controversy.