English Setter Bloodline Traits

[JoshHaker]

What are the characteristics of some of the different bloodlines in English setters? Color, size, coat lengths, range, retrieving, disposition, natural ability, tail set and such?

[Mountaineer]

Checking the various kennels and their marketing would be the simplest route toward an answer.

[Xhipi1]

Like the above poster said. Check kennels and see what traits you find desirable. Check the stud and dame and that should give you a good idea on the size and coat length. Just remember all english setter pups come out white and stay like this for a little. This is something I didn't know.

[PntrRookie]

Just remember all english setter pups come out white and stay like this for a little.

What, at birth? I have see litters born with body markings especially if they are spots or tri-colors. Sure if the base of the body is white, the ticking will come through as the pup gets older, but the spots, head masks, etc. are there at birth. My avatar would have is face mask and butt patch at birth. His body may have been white with the ticking coming in later.

[Xhipi1]

I was referring to the ticking that comes out later in the pups life. Thanks for clarifying it up.

[JoshHaker]

I have checked out many breeders online but was looking to get unbiased opinions from those who have owned different lines.

[Xhipi1]

Well I have only owned 1 english setter and can tell you a little about it. My pup has Ryman blood in him and from what I can see in him and in his father is that they are particaulry big in size with block shape heads and have long coats. The dame of my pup comes from long gone Nixon. She is a smaller dog that has a medium coat length due to her smaller size she is also faster but not by much. Another thing I noticed is their pointing style. The stud kept a classic setter stance with a straight tail while the dame kept a high 12 o'clock tail. This is just what I observed in the 2 dogs. I am by no means an expert.

[JoshHaker]

Well I have only owned 1 english setter and can tell you a little about it. My pup has Ryman blood in him and from what I can see in him and in his father is that they are particaulry big in size with block shape heads and have long coats. The dame of my pup comes from long gone Nixon. She is a smaller dog that has a medium coat length due to her smaller size she is also faster but not by much. Another thing I noticed is their pointing style. The stud kept a classic setter stance with a straight tail while the dame kept a high 12 o'clock tail. This is just what I observed in the 2 dogs. I am by no means an expert.

That's what I'm talking about! Thank you. This helps me recognize traits that seem to stick. You can look at all the sights you want but feedback like that helps you learn about the breed.

[mudhunter]

The setters have at least three distinct lines (and it gets more diverse within those lines)

Generaly speaking...

Dual setters (Ryman, Decoverly, old Hemlock) lines are big blocky dogs with long coats, lots of ticking, piont with a low tail and genrally close ranging. Some people love this type of setter some hate it. One thing you can be sure of is you will not see one win a field trial.

Llewellyn Setters are the foundation for the competive field setters. They are usally a little smaller than dual setters and typically range out some but still stay somewhat close. The style is typically lower than a field bred dog but I have seen some that point with a twelve oclock tail. Very uncommon to see these dogs in modern trials but not unheard of.

Field Setters are probally the most diverse. These are the dogs that have been trialed and bred to win trials. The are range in size. The cover dog bred dogs (pennstar, grouseridge, long gone, berg bros, etc) are typically smaller (35-50lb) dogs that are snappy and show well in the woods. The dogs bred for horseback tend to be bigger and gaited for a longer stride (smith, Pinkone, etc.) These dogs are much more similiar that different, good grouse dogs can win in horseback stakes and vice versa. They all run with high tails and point with high tails. They have been bred to be natural and develop quickly.

Hope this makes some sense.

[JoshHaker]

Thanks mudhunter! Great summary of the different styles of setter. I am definitely considering the field type.

What qualities make a good cover dog? How long are these events? Although dramatically different from Florida I could see some similarities in the cover these trials are held in to the uplands that we hunt here in Florida. Meaning this is not the open praries of the West. As an example many of the areas I hunt I would rarely see my dog if he stayed 200yds plus.

[doco]

I can only speak of Grouse Ridge's Setters. My mentor, Styles Bridges has been training and developing about 6-10 puppy/derbies per year for the last 6 years that I have been training with him. I trial GSP's and he has mentored me and by his side, I have watched him develop over 50 dogs. Several of them are now winning on the horseback and coverdog circuits. I have personally titled both of my GSP's without his help at trials. He no longer trials.

The Grouse Ridge lines have produced smart, flashy, stylish, high tailed sensible dogs that want to please and are easy to handle. This bloodline produces dogs in any color, size, and temperment your looking for. Most females that I have worked with are around 40 - 50 lbs and the males from 50 -70 with most right in the middle.

He has now decided to begin his own breeding and training program with a strong foundation of these dogs. His link is www.lightningflashsetters.com. I have trained exclusively with him 1 - 3 days a week for the last 6 years. I can attest to every word on this website. Just to be clear, I recieve no compensation nor want any.....I am an Amatuer. I could not have paid for the knowledge and experience that I have gained by being the PIA by his side trying to gain 1/10th of the intuitive insticts that he possesses with his dogs.

I hope this helps as well.

Doco

[shags]

Besides GR there are many other choices for coverdog stock

Check here http://members3.boardhost.com/coverdog/

[Lyco Setter]

For Florida and a cover dog, do your homework on heat tolerance! The fact that you're going "field" (aka trial dog lines) doesn't 100% guarantee you'll end up with a super dog, but it does increase the chances over some of the other setter types. Most of your horseback trial setters handle the heat well, yet were bred to range big which may not be what you want as the cover/woods hunt small opposed to the bean fields and prairies. Some of the cover dog (grouse and woodcock) lines are not so good in the heat. I will not call any kennels/breeders out on that but some dogs out of New England based lines just can't handle it and even though they have the "go" in them, they just cannot physically follow through... I've had some. And from that I've learned you cannot take their word for it when they say their heat tolerance is "good" ... when you stop and think about it, they're basing that largely on the climate they run dogs in the NE- what's a "really hot" day in the woods for them 60* or above? (It's not that these cover dogs have this problem, it's just Duals and some Llews can't compare in the speed of their ground effort which makes it somewhat of a non-issue for them... you don't notice.) In that regard (heat tolerance) it takes careful homework and a lot of asking/emailing around if you're new. Take a look into some of the cover trials that are early in the fall (mid-Sept. through mid-Oct.)... and go off the all-age hour stakes winners- those dogs are winning when it's warm. The cover line I've been most satisfied with that seems to do well in the heat besides have the other tools is the Ghost Train line and progeny out of dogs of his. The last big gun from that line being Pennstar. Look him up at pedigree.williewalker.net and use that tool to use a reference for different setter lines in general. I've seen some nice crosses of his to other kennels, particularly female pups of his paired with Keystone's Red Rage.