Responsible Firearms ownership

Vman · Post by **Vman** » Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:04 pm

How many of you think that a Hunters Safety certificate or an educational gun course should be required to buy a firearm? I can`t believe that the NRA hasn`t made this proposal yet. It would actually put money in their coffers and shed some positive light on the organization. I have often wondered for years, why the DOJ does not have any available information on violent crimes committed with a gun by people with a Hunters Safety certificate. My money is that the number is so small it is not worth the time and money. In order for my sons to buy a hunting license in another state, they need to have a Hunters Safety cert. number. The reason? Too help eliminate accidental shootings while in the field. Did this action help cut the number of accidents? Without a doubt. So with that in mind I would think that required training for anyone that wants to purchase a firearm would be a positive step in the right direction. I feel that part of the educational process should include firearm security in the home, vehicle or even work place. At this time the only ones that need a Hunters Safety cert. are the people that hunt. They are not the ones committing the crimes. On the other side of the coin, we have the people that don`t hunt but are legal too purchase a firearm by simply having the money, no safety education needed what so ever, and they are the ones that are leaving their weapons unsecured for kids and mentally ill to have easy access. Too me this is the core of the problem.
I would be willing to bet that the mass shootings that have happened in the last 6 yrs were committed by people that had NO educational firearms training. I believe that one of the most important aspects of Firearm Training is RESPECT for the firearm and the safe use of the weapon.
I think the NRA is dropping the ball on this opportunity.
Do any of you that read this feel that our second amendment rights would be violated by being required to have a Hunters Safety certificate or equivalent firearms training before being able to legally purchase a firearm?
Just food for thought on this hot topic. Comments welcome.

DogNewbie · Post by **DogNewbie** » Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:21 pm

Interesting point. We have to take a class to drive a car why not to own a weapon? I guess I'm a little unsure of how effective it will be in changing peoples irresponsible behaviors. Gun safety in MN can now be taken online in a couple hours. You're supposed to go to a field day but I know of people that have called in and said they had a wedding or something to go to and they waived the field day for them. I'm a safe driver and gun handler because my father demanded it from me. To this day, the first thing he says after I shoot my gun is "Is your safety back on?" I'm not sure a 4 hour online course would ever make a difference. I do think regulations on how guns are stored in the home could be worth exploring.

High Voltage · Post by **High Voltage** » Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:32 pm

I think most of the people who by guns legally already have a good sense about gun safty. I, for one, do not want to have to keep my guns locked up. A locked up gun is not going to do me a bit of good if I need it quick!
Driving a car is a privilege, owing a gun is our 2 amendment right. Here is an interesting article about the meds a lot of the mass shooting killers were on. I think that is something that needs to be looked into a lot more.

http://mobile.wnd.com/2013/01/the-giant ... reporting/

Post by **topher40** » Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:33 pm

Gun safety isnt taught by a course or the govnment, yet is taught buy strong fathers that pass down a tradition of hunting, target shooting, and over all gun ownership. My boys wouldnt ever go to hunters safety if the government didnt require it. I took the course at ten years old and passed the test, what can a ten year old really learn from a course that is easy enough for them to pass that a good father cant teach? Society is the problem, not the liscensing process.

wems2371 · Post by **wems2371** » Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:57 pm

topher40 wrote:Gun safety isnt taught by a course or the govnment, yet is taught buy strong fathers that pass down a tradition of hunting, target shooting, and over all gun ownership. My boys wouldnt ever go to hunters safety if the government didnt require it. I took the course at ten years old and passed the test, what can a ten year old really learn from a course that is easy enough for them to pass that a good father cant teach? Society is the problem, not the liscensing process.

I agree and disagree. My husband grew up with guns, as did his father, and so on and so forth. All passing down their knowledge. My husband taught me everything I truly needed to know, but at 40 years old I took hunter safety with a girlfriend. We were both old enough not to need it in Iowa, but wanted it in case we went out of state. I'm truly glad I took it. We had several instructors, so we got unique insight and stories from each. You might not be quite as old as me

, but I am guessing and hoping that the class has evolved as well, since you were 10 years old.

MillerClemsonHD · Post by **MillerClemsonHD** » Fri Jan 18, 2013 1:00 pm

I do not and will not support our government limiting gun ownership anymore than they already do. If you give them an inch they will take them one by one till they have gone a mile!! No gang banger in downtown Detroit or Chicago cares about background checks, safety classes or anything else. They will continue to buy firearms illegally and use them to commit more crimes. Any amount of gun control will make absolutely no difference in stopping these criminals. The physco's shooting up schools are the US versions of suicide bombers. You think the damage done by an AR is bad, let them go back to using bombs to cause mayhem. Armed guards will and have made a difference. The resource officer at the high school I graduated from took a bullet and stopped a shooting a few years ago.

If you want to see the NRA support increased training it should not be any kind of requirement to buy a firearm, but instead get them to focus on training at ranges, mandatory safety training to use a range, or shoot at public ranges. Gun owners can get behind something like that. It does not infringe on rights of ownership and advances the knowledge level of firearm owners. Some states require training for a CWP and some do not, and it should stay that way a state issue.

You have to have a license and insurance to drive a car, but that sure doesn't stop people who don't have them from driving. Alcohol was illegal, and instead of stopping people from consuming it the mob was made powerful and rich through the black market. Drugs are illegal but that sure doesn't stop people from selling them or using them. Instead it has created drug cartels, lots of money at stake and continually escalating violence.

A right guaranteed by the constitution of the US has already been taken away from many of its citizens based on government criteria (ie felons, etc), and we do not want to let those criteria be expanded at the governments will. I guess I will not be surprised to see that happen in a country that has now decided its better to let the government make your medical decisions for you. We need to protect our liberty and freedom before it is gone.

Post by **topher40** » Fri Jan 18, 2013 1:06 pm

Wems- I dont believe I am a whole lot younger than you.

Storys can be told at a class or in a field, how is it any different? I hunted with old guys when I started and heard plenty of stories and tips. Just getting out there and doing is a big learning tool when a little common sense is added to the equation. Common sense isnt always present and that goes back to my original argument of SOCIETY is the problem.

Miller Clemson-
Amen, but your preaching to the chior! I told my wife a couple days ago that if they outlaw guns only outlaws will have them. She stated that she understood, until.............. Then I told her that I am about to become an outlaw.

Ms. Cage · Post by **Ms. Cage** » Fri Jan 18, 2013 1:15 pm

topher40 wrote:Miller Clemson-Amen, but your preaching to the chior! I told my wife a couple days ago that if they outlaw guns only outlaws will have them. She stated that she understood, until.............. Then I told her that I am about to become an outlaw.

Amen!!!!

Brazosvalleyvizslas · Post by **Brazosvalleyvizslas** » Fri Jan 18, 2013 1:37 pm

As an NRA certified instructor as well as NSCA, we already have an extensive network for educating people on the use of firearms and responsible ownership. No way should we support ANY kind of new license to OWN a gun. We already have that in the 2nd Amendment. If you want educated then take a class. If you want a license, get your CCL but don't ever support licensing to OWN a gun as it just leads to registration, taxing and confiscation. I support hunter education but that is different then requiring someone to be licensed to own a gun. Most shooting ranges have instructors that can teach so much more than a hunter Ed class and many colleges have police classes that teach firearm use and safety.

deke · Post by **deke** » Fri Jan 18, 2013 1:44 pm

"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." Seems like someone is trying to pi$$ on our rights as American citizens and call them privledges now. These are rights given to us at birth, not something we have to earn.

Vman · Post by **Vman** » Fri Jan 18, 2013 1:57 pm

topher40 wrote:Miller Clemson-Amen, but your preaching to the chior! I told my wife a couple days ago that if they outlaw guns only outlaws will have them. She stated that she understood, until.............. Then I told her that I am about to become an outlaw.

I don`t understand what has been passed that will make you an outlaw? Nobody is going to take away your AR. If you have a 30 round magazine and get caught hunting coyotes with it by a Warden, I would expect the mag. to be taken, but it certainly isn`t a felony. A small fine at most.

In regards to Hunter Safety or Gun safety. I think the agenda for Hunters Safety is pretty much the same since I took the class in 72, but I think Gun Safety can change as our guns have changed{assault }. The thing I see is all of us here are Hunters and use our guns for that purpose. We are required to have it if born beyond a certain year in order to buy a license. But the people that live in suburbia and know nothing about firearms but want to own one could benefit from a little education. The mother that got killed by the Newtown idiot for example,, I can only assume and correct me if I am wrong, but I feel she did not have her guns secured in any way and paid the price. Were the guns used in Aurora and Arizona{giffords} actually owned by the shooters? I don`t remember.

Trust me I am not for more gun control, but if you think we do not have a problem you are not on the same planet as the rest of us. Society -yes, Hollywood - yes, mental illness-yes, irresponsible owners -yes, violent video games - yes.
There is no one solution to a problem like this. But I feel something needs to be done and it starts with me. All my guns are in my safe except for my CC gun and my training shotgun. Its sad i have to do so, but it is the world we live in. I now have to lock my truck when i go too town also.

Brazosvalleyvizslas · Post by **Brazosvalleyvizslas** » Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:02 pm

The proposed legislation isn't just ablout magazine capacity this time.

Post by **topher40** » Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:04 pm

V-Man-
How have the laws in place thus far prevented anything? Will more laws prevent more? No. Lawbreakers are Lawbreakers. I can gaurantee you that more school shooting will still take place even with the new laws passed (all 23 that came from presidential mandate). One more catastrophe will only lead to more legislation (or more likey additional presidential mandates superceding the other two branches of the government completely). Give an inch and a mile is taken. What would make you think the antis will stop with these steps? I will SOON be an outlaw because of this belief that you can outlaw guns and people will obey the law.

Vman · Post by **Vman** » Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:05 pm

As an NRA certified instructor as well as NSCA, we already have an extensive network for educating people on the use of firearms and responsible ownership. No way should we support ANY kind of new license to OWN a gun. We already have that in the 2nd Amendment. If you want educated then take a class. If you want a license, get your CCL but don't ever support licensing to OWN a gun as it just leads to registration, taxing and confiscation. I support hunter education but that is different then requiring someone to be licensed to own a gun. Most shooting ranges have instructors that can teach so much more than a hunter Ed class and many colleges have police classes that teach firearm use and safety.

I have sold firearms now for 10 years. I have sold hundreds if not a thousand. I have had so many guns pointed at me I am almost used to it. I could write a book on idiots and firearms. I used to guide hunters at several game farms but got tired of having a 12g. pointed at my back all the time. Go get a part time job at a big gun store and after a month tell me there is not a need for education. It is scary, and too see some of these bed wetters buy firearms and hundreds of rounds of ammo is scarier yet, and now with this new legislation the nut jobs are out in force.

Post by **topher40** » Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:09 pm

Vman wrote:
As an NRA certified instructor as well as NSCA, we already have an extensive network for educating people on the use of firearms and responsible ownership. No way should we support ANY kind of new license to OWN a gun. We already have that in the 2nd Amendment. If you want educated then take a class. If you want a license, get your CCL but don't ever support licensing to OWN a gun as it just leads to registration, taxing and confiscation. I support hunter education but that is different then requiring someone to be licensed to own a gun. Most shooting ranges have instructors that can teach so much more than a hunter Ed class and many colleges have police classes that teach firearm use and safety.
I have sold firearms now for 10 years. I have sold hundreds if not a thousand. I have had so many guns pointed at me I am almost used to it. I could write a book on idiots and firearms. I used to guide hunters at several game farms but got tired of having a 12g. pointed at my back all the time. Go get a part time job at a big gun store and after a month tell me there is not a need for education. It is scary, and too see some of these bed wetters buy firearms and hundreds of rounds of ammo is scarier yet, and now with this new legislation the nut jobs are out in force.

V-man-
with string fathers and mothers to properly introduce weapons to the next generation this can and would be all taken care of. Again, this is a societal problem. How can the government provide a better foundation? Fix the family dynamic by getting back to God, setting boundaries. Get off the Ipads and video games, get outside and play in the dirt. Kids these days have no clue, unfortunately they are our dismal future.

Brazosvalleyvizslas · Post by **Brazosvalleyvizslas** » Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:16 pm

VMan, I've been in the firearms industry most of my life. If you think selling a gun is scary, don't become an instructor.

Ruffshooter · Post by **Ruffshooter** » Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:26 pm

Gun education would not stop the nut jobs, criminals, or terrorist that do the mass shooting. Not all gun owners are hunters.
Any person who picks up a gun knows what it is used for. Killing of people (not including war or self defense) is done by people that do not care, not normal citizens.

A gun has never in history ever killed anyone! ( Unless it malfunctioned.)

Also, talk about adding cost to government and adding to red tape.

As for those that are irresponsible pointing guns at another person as a matter of neglect or worse yet screwing around, That moment is when you need to speak up actually before you hand the person the weapon. If they do it after, take the gun and send them out of the store.

Rick

Hoosierdaddy · Post by **Hoosierdaddy** » Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:37 pm

I think the NRA has dropped the ball on this and other issues over the years and is why i have not been a member for a number of years.I think that the big debate always comes down to the "assault rifle".I guess i own an assault rifle a SKS.Comparing that rifle an innaccurate,stipper-clip fed relic to a modern day AR is laughable,throw in a 30 rd. mag and i dont think i win that gunbattle on my best day.And as it stands now any numbnuts can walk into Gunstore or Show and buy one.
It turns every owner into a killing machine if they have a bad day.I dont believe banning guns is the answer,however i do believe that certain weapons do not belong on store shelves for anyone to purchase.The AR has become the bad guy,because it has been used too many times in recent memory to kill a whole bunch of innocents.Is it the AR or the user? Unfortunatley it has been a combination of both.

Luminary Setters · Post by **Luminary Setters** » Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:59 pm

kensfishing · Post by **kensfishing** » Fri Jan 18, 2013 3:42 pm

Hoosierdaddy wrote:I think the NRA has dropped the ball on this and other issues over the years and is why i have not been a member for a number of years.I think that the big debate always comes down to the "assault rifle".I guess i own an assault rifle a SKS.Comparing that rifle an innaccurate,stipper-clip fed relic to a modern day AR is laughable,throw in a 30 rd. mag and i dont think i win that gunbattle on my best day.And as it stands now any numbnuts can walk into Gunstore or Show and buy one.
It turns every owner into a killing machine if they have a bad day.I dont believe banning guns is the answer,however i do believe that certain weapons do not belong on store shelves for anyone to purchase.The AR has become the bad guy,because it has been used too many times in recent memory to kill a whole bunch of innocents.Is it the AR or the user? Unfortunatley it has been a combination of both.

AR doen't mean assult rifle, It mean Armalite Rifle. Just like clips are for holding things together, Magazines holds ammo to operate a semiauto gun. If we do away with the press we'll all be better off. Gun killings have fallen off big time since 2009. Our new goverment is wanting to have the U.S. governed by NATO. Won't happen in my lifetime.

Ms. Cage · Post by **Ms. Cage** » Fri Jan 18, 2013 3:50 pm

kensfishing wrote:Our new goverment is wanting to have the U.S. governed by NATO. Won't happen in my lifetime.

Nato troops on our soil to disarm us won't fly with gun owners. Our own military used to disarm, I wonder how many soldiers would say kiss off to orders!!!

Vman · Post by **Vman** » Fri Jan 18, 2013 4:03 pm

As for those that are irresponsible pointing guns at another person as a matter of neglect or worse yet screwing around, That moment is when you need to speak up actually before you hand the person the weapon. If they do it after, take the gun and send them out of the store.

I do and have,, but the point I was trying too make is there are way too many people out there that can buy, and do own guns legally, that that shouldn`t even own a daisy red ryder. They are idiots and when they buy that gun that they have the right too own, they become an armed idiot

Hattrick · Post by **Hattrick** » Fri Jan 18, 2013 4:16 pm

The media is the problem only negitive storys make the news. My father was a cross country truck driver for a few years. I would say most all these truckers carry a handgun. Anyway i can recall 2 storys my father told me about while sleeping in the sleeper of truck being waking by a crimial crawing into the driver set unware he was in the bunk. Needless to say this nice guy was meant with a cocked 357 magnum from behind the driver seat of the sleeper he just slowly back out of his truck and left the seen like all nice bad guys do when asked nicely. Now what of happen if he didnt have a handgun? he could of been stabbed or shot and even killed. I would bet this far more of a everyday event that killings, it just dont make the news or get talked about. Thats just one truck driver. When they do the research it needs not be one sided like the media. guns do save lives

Ghosted3 · Post by **Ghosted3** » Fri Jan 18, 2013 6:01 pm

Illinois, as far as I know, is the only state that has the FOID card system, and you have to take a safety course before you can get a FOID card, and you have to have a FOID card to purchase a firearm. It is not a small test either, it is a 2 day class, out in the field stuff and then a test that has to be passed. Do I think people with a FOID card are safer, nope lol.

Corry

dreamerofdreams · Post by **dreamerofdreams** » Fri Jan 18, 2013 6:22 pm

No.

Do I think people should get training? Yes. That's why I offer NRA classes and personal instruction at cost, or free. I think it's critically important.

But it should not be required. If it were required, I never, ever, ever would have gotten into shooting. Also, these laws do not impact crime at all.

dreamerofdreams · Post by **dreamerofdreams** » Fri Jan 18, 2013 6:45 pm

Vman wrote:
As for those that are irresponsible pointing guns at another person as a matter of neglect or worse yet screwing around, That moment is when you need to speak up actually before you hand the person the weapon. If they do it after, take the gun and send them out of the store.
I do and have,, but the point I was trying too make is there are way too many people out there that can buy, and do own guns legally, that that shouldn`t even own a daisy red ryder. They are idiots and when they buy that gun that they have the right too own, they become an armed idiot

There are even more idiots with drivers licenses who have no business driving something that large at ridiculous speeds. They also kill more people. Let's start with that, rather than an enumerated right.

Saddle · Post by **Saddle** » Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:26 pm

I think at some point the right to own a gun needs to be balanced with the fact that there are too many guns in America period. I am an avid gun owner and sportsman but I would give my assault weapon up in a second (I don't have one but if I did) if I thought it would help prevent more kindergartners from being shot and killed in their classrooms.

I don't have any kids but I would give my guns up willingly if I thought it would keep you guy's kids from being killed at school. Some weapons don't belong in civilian hands. I think we get so entrenched in the idea that we have the right to own guns that we forget that we have gun problem in this country. We have to come to some middle ground.

If you read the presidents decrees they are pretty much meaningless garbage that he put out there to make it look like he was doing something. I read all of them. Nothing in there is an immediate threat to our beloved guns.

dreamerofdreams · Post by **dreamerofdreams** » Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:47 pm

Saddle wrote:I think at some point the right to own a gun needs to be balanced with the fact that there are too many guns in America period. I am an avid gun owner and sportsman but I would give my assault weapon up in a second (I don't have one but if I did) if I thought it would help prevent more kindergartners from being shot and killed in their classrooms.

I don't have any kids but I would give my guns up willingly if I thought it would keep you guy's kids from being killed at school. Some weapons don't belong in civilian hands. I think we get so entrenched in the idea that we have the right to own guns that we forget that we have gun problem in this country. We have to come to some middle ground.

If you read the presidents decrees they are pretty much meaningless garbage that he put out there to make it look like he was doing something. I read all of them. Nothing in there is an immediate threat to our beloved guns.

No.

What is an assault weapon? According to D. Feinstein, my little ruger 10/22 would be an assault weapon. Almost all of the criteria to be labeled an "assault weapon" are cosmetic features. They don't have any impact on functionality.

The president's EOs are largely reinforcing existing law, doing what the NRA said (which is okay now because he said it but bad when NRA said it), and things that are outside the scope of EOs. The proposed legislation he asked to be introduced to the legislature is another matter.

Saddle · Post by **Saddle** » Fri Jan 18, 2013 9:07 pm

I like having my guns just as much as the next person but I can't fathom putting my "right" to own a gun in front of the lives of others. To each his own.

Brazosvalleyvizslas · Post by **Brazosvalleyvizslas** » Fri Jan 18, 2013 9:14 pm

The AR is the number 1 platform of rifle being sold in America for things like hunting, competition, recreation and defense. Many businesses would be shut down and more jobs lost without benefit for our school kids. Spend the money that these laws take to implement and create an "air Marshall" type program. We can hire janitors to keep schools clean and food personel to feed them but we can't hire someone to keep them alive? We have lots of soldiers returning who have combat experience, are good with guns and looking for jobs. I thought we were trying to create jobs.

Tyler S · Post by **Tyler S** » Fri Jan 18, 2013 9:29 pm

Brazosvalleyvizslas wrote:The AR is the number 1 platform of rifle being sold in America for things like hunting, competition, recreation and defense. Many businesses would be shut down and more jobs lost without benefit for our school kids. Spend the money that these laws take to implement and create an "air Marshall" type program. We can hire janitors to keep schools clean and food personel to feed them but we can't hire someone to keep them alive? We have lots of soldiers returning who have combat experience, are good with guns and looking for jobs. I thought we were trying to create jobs.

x10

I dont mean to be insensitive, but these shootings of defenseless people could have been carried out with a weapon with a 5 round mag or even a 6shot revolver and it wouldnt have taken but a few seconds longer.

Ms. Cage · Post by **Ms. Cage** » Fri Jan 18, 2013 9:37 pm

Saddle wrote:I like having my guns just as much as the next person but I can't fathom putting my "right" to own a gun in front of the lives of others. To each his own.

Take away legal guns and the mortality rate could easily double. The only guns will be owned by crooks, smugglers, and gang bangers. We can be robbed and fired upon at will. Just Saying !

Vman · Post by **Vman** » Fri Jan 18, 2013 10:14 pm

For those of you that are against any type of reform, what do you suggest we do? Nothing? We don`t have a problem here? It is our imagination tricking us? I do not want any type of confiscation, nor will it ever happen. But there is a problem and doing nothing is not part of the solution.IMO. So what do you suggest? Please remember Columbine had an armed officer.

Post by **ezzy333** » Fri Jan 18, 2013 10:54 pm

Every gun use in an assault is an assault weapon. Simple as that. Guns sitting in your home are not assault weapons no matter what they look like till you pick them up and assault someone with it.

Ezzy

ckirsch · Post by **ckirsch** » Fri Jan 18, 2013 11:28 pm

Saddle wrote: I would give my guns up willingly if I thought it would keep you guy's kids from being killed at school.

Unless one was planning to use his or her guns for that purpose, giving them up wouldn't accomplish much, would it? I have no criminal record, and my guns have never been used illegally, so why should my rights be restricted? I'm also amused that some of you continue to refer to AR15's and "assault" rifles, when the Connecticut killer exclusively used handguns to murder his victims. His AR never left the trunk of his car.

A very troubled young man, loaded up with psych meds, went nuts and brutally killed a bunch of kids, so the answer is to punish all of the law-abiding gun owners. Makes perfect sense.

Post by **ezzy333** » Fri Jan 18, 2013 11:55 pm

ckirsch wrote:
Saddle wrote: I would give my guns up willingly if I thought it would keep you guy's kids from being killed at school.
Unless one was planning to use his or her guns for that purpose, giving them up wouldn't accomplish much, would it? I have no criminal record, and my guns have never been used illegally, so why should my rights be restricted? I'm also amused that some of you continue to refer to AR15's and "assault" rifles, when the Connecticut killer exclusively used handguns to murder his victims. His AR never left the trunk of his car.

A very troubled young man, loaded up with psych meds, went nuts and brutally killed a bunch of kids, so the answer is to punish all of the law-abiding gun owners. Makes perfect sense.

I have been wondering if we were going to hear where the rifle was reported to be. I almost posted that earlier. I think it is really bad when it was reported but then not mentioned since in the news after Obama made his assault weapon remarks. We get fed what the media decides fits their agenda and not the news as it happens.

Ezzy

Post by **Sharon** » Sat Jan 19, 2013 12:18 am

Vman wrote:How many of you think that a Hunters Safety certificate or an educational gun course should be required to buy a firearm? I can`t believe that the NRA hasn`t made this proposal yet. It would actually put money in their coffers and shed some positive light on the organization. I have often wondered for years, why the DOJ does not have any available information on violent crimes committed with a gun by people with a Hunters Safety certificate. My money is that the number is so small it is not worth the time and money. In order for my sons to buy a hunting license in another state, they need to have a Hunters Safety cert. number. The reason? Too help eliminate accidental shootings while in the field. Did this action help cut the number of accidents? Without a doubt. So with that in mind I would think that required training for anyone that wants to purchase a firearm would be a positive step in the right direction. I feel that part of the educational process should include firearm security in the home, vehicle or even work place. At this time the only ones that need a Hunters Safety cert. are the people that hunt. They are not the ones committing the crimes. On the other side of the coin, we have the people that don`t hunt but are legal too purchase a firearm by simply having the money, no safety education needed what so ever, and they are the ones that are leaving their weapons unsecured for kids and mentally ill to have easy access. Too me this is the core of the problem.
I would be willing to bet that the mass shootings that have happened in the last 6 yrs were committed by people that had NO educational firearms training. I believe that one of the most important aspects of Firearm Training is RESPECT for the firearm and the safe use of the weapon.
I think the NRA is dropping the ball on this opportunity.
Do any of you that read this feel that our second amendment rights would be violated by being required to have a Hunters Safety certificate or equivalent firearms training before being able to legally purchase a firearm?
Just food for thought on this hot topic. Comments welcome.

Just some FYI: Here in Canada you need to pass a 10 hour hunting course before getting your Outdoors Card. You also need to pass a 10 hour Firearms course before you get your Possession and Acquisition Firearms Certificate. ( An interview with the RCMP/Police is also required.) This is not to say that everything is perfect here . Guns are still sold from car trunks etc.. but................
Registration of your firearms is no longer required.
See stats. farther down:( 520 people refused a PAL in 2011.)
http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/fact ... ex-eng.htm

JKP · Post by **JKP** » Sat Jan 19, 2013 8:29 am

Driving a car is a privilege, owing a gun is our 2 amendment right

Do responsibilities come with rights? If so....would being responsible to properly store my gun be reasonable? My insurance company expects me to garage my car. What about insurance?? I have to insure my car in case I damage something/someone else? What about liability insurance for gun ownership? Would insurance companies let criminals, watch list types and the emotionally unstable get insurance?? I'm not advocating for anyhting here...just trying to broaden the discussion.

I get the "right" part...and I believe in it. I have a right to own a gun..many guns for that matter...and do. We seem to have a problem with the responsibilities that come with the rights, not just as individuals but as a society. The second Amendment is law ... it is our right. BUT....If some kid is violent...expresses the desire to harm others....among the first questions should be the child's access to deadly force. We don't want to have that discussion...but it would seem to be a responsibility....at least to me.

Vman · Post by **Vman** » Sat Jan 19, 2013 8:38 am

Do responsibilities come with rights? If so....would being responsible to properly store my gun be reasonable? My insurance company expects me to garage my car. What about insurance?? I have to insure my car in case I damage something/someone else? What about liability insurance for gun ownership? Would insurance companies let criminals, watch list types and the emotionally unstable get insurance?? I'm not advocating for anyhting here...just trying to broaden the discussion.

I get the "right" part...and I believe in it. I have a right to own a gun..many guns for that matter...and do. We seem to have a problem with the responsibilities that come with the rights, not just as individuals but as a society. The second Amendment is law ... it is our right. BUT....If some kid is violent...expresses the desire to harm others....among the first questions should be the child's access to deadly force. We don't want to have that discussion...but it would seem to be a responsibility....at least to me.

+1

ultracarry · Post by **ultracarry** » Sat Jan 19, 2013 9:11 am

kensfishing wrote: AR doen't mean assult rifle, It mean Armalite Rifle. Just like clips are for holding things together, Magazines holds ammo to operate a semiauto gun.

Finally someone who points this out. The media idiots always use "clip" to describe a magazine. As soon as that word is used I change the channel unless its to describe an item that is used in wemons hair.

It is amazing to see the lack of muzzle control with people that carry guns for a living and on TV shows. You just can't fix stupid.

ckirsch · Post by **ckirsch** » Sat Jan 19, 2013 12:41 pm

No organization does as much safety training as the NRA. Second place is so far back they don't even count. While it's probably unrealistic for any of us to expect to agree with the NRA on every single issue, the fact remains that were it not for them, none of us would have anything beyond a single shot at this point, and possibly not even that.

It's been stated on this thread that the NRA has somehow dropped the ball. In my view, shooters of any type who refuse to come up with $25-35 per year for an NRA membership are dropping the ball. Once these Obama's new laws are in place, they'll provide traction for even more restrictive measures. We need some heads pulled out of the sand before it's too late.

ThreeWires · Post by **ThreeWires** » Sat Jan 19, 2013 12:44 pm

In my humble opinion, we cannot give one inch toward additional regulations for firearms...you just cannot (nor should we continue to attempt to) legislate stupidity or evildoers.

dan v · Post by **dan v** » Sat Jan 19, 2013 1:52 pm

Vman wrote:How many of you think that a Hunters Safety certificate or an educational gun course should be required to buy a firearm? ......

I'm late to the party it seems. Please don't take the following as an insult, not meant as one.

I'd like you to have a Freedom of Speech certificate before you're allowed to speak. Maybe pass a Freedom of Speech course.

Post by **ezzy333** » Sat Jan 19, 2013 1:57 pm

Funny isn't it that we have all heard since our very first days that the power of speech is more powerful than the sword but now those same people want to qualify our right to have a sword but there is no test to qualify our ability to partake in the sport of speech.

Ezzy

dreamerofdreams · Post by **dreamerofdreams** » Sat Jan 19, 2013 2:06 pm

Vman wrote:For those of you that are against any type of reform, what do you suggest we do? Nothing? We don`t have a problem here? It is our imagination tricking us? I do not want any type of confiscation, nor will it ever happen. But there is a problem and doing nothing is not part of the solution.IMO. So what do you suggest? Please remember Columbine had an armed officer.

1. Gun violence has been decreasing over the past several years. So maybe we're already doing the right things.
2. Confiscation very well could happen. The proposed legislation does not include grandfathering clauses.

To have this discussion, you need to first verbalize what you think the problem is. Then you can look for solutions. I'm not sure what, specifically, you think the problem is (I can think of several you might be thinking of), so I will let you do that.

As for Columbine, that was the incident that changed and revamped police response to mass shootings. It changed them for a reason.

cjhills · Post by **cjhills** » Sat Jan 19, 2013 2:21 pm

Every Child should be issued a permit to carry when they enter kindergarten and have it upgraded every two or three years as they get big enough to handle more fire power. It is their constitutioal right and their heritage. They don't need training because all americans are born knowing how to use a gun. CJ

Vman · Post by **Vman** » Sat Jan 19, 2013 2:22 pm

I'd like you to have a Freedom of Speech certificate before you're allowed to speak. Maybe pass a Freedom of Speech course.

Your statement is not relevant. Maybe when my words or speech can kill 22 children it will become relevant. but until then it is not.
Our founding fathers had no idea that 250 years later we would have rifles that can shoot over 60 rounds per minute or more. Hardly a musket that they used.

I guess the point of my post is this. Where do the gang bangers and lunatics get their guns? They steal them or buy them from someone else that has stolen them. Agree? They have no respect for life or law. They are ruining it for the rest of us. But as mentioned before, Rights come with Responsibility. And as a responsible firearms owner my weapons are locked up in a safe other than my conceal and carry gun{10rounds} and my .17HMR revolver {9 rounds} that is always in my truck. Do you think the nut job in Newtown unlocked the safe and stole those weapons? Or were they in the closet or some other unsecured location where he had easy access.? Nobody will tell us that!
I don`t like it any more than any of you folks. It is just the reality of the world we live in today. We lock our houses, we lock our vehicles, take the keys out of my motorcycle and ATV and snowmoble. We lock down our windows and have security systems for our homes. But for some reason locking up a gun seems un American.

Vman · Post by **Vman** » Sat Jan 19, 2013 2:28 pm

Every Child should be issued a permit to carry when they enter kindergarten and have it upgraded every two or three years as they get big enough to handle more fire power.

LOL,, and it would stop the Bully ing! You may have something there! Teacher pisses you off just shoot`em. Coach makes you run extra laps just tell him "Go Ahead Make My Day!" Life would become and instant video game!

Backroads · Post by **Backroads** » Sat Jan 19, 2013 2:37 pm

Rifles account for less than 3 percent of homicides in the US. More were killed with knives, and believe it or not, blunt objects including hands and feet.
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/cr ... rtbl11.xls
Don't let facts get in the way of your feelings though. Pesky facts

ThreeWires · Post by **ThreeWires** » Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:13 pm

Wyndancer--I think you are on to something. Just think about all of the good which would come from hundreds of government agencies 'teaching and testing us' to qualify to exercise our rights.

Just a few...

Testing to have children...boy, they could teach us how to feed them, nurture them, the right religion...and whether or not we should have them...maybe even enforce mandatory genetic testing....

Testing on how to show religious tolerance...thats one I cannot wait to see--you know, we need to embrace everyone else's religion, even if it means not following our own...or one which attacks others rights.

So many more...sign me up.

Bottom line is those first 10 Amendments are crucial to America being the country it is or should be...we have seen to many of them stretched in interpretation (think about being 'retried' under federal prosecution and double jeopardy) or (illegal search and seizure by having coomunications monitored en mass) just to mention a few.