Gun Dog Forum

Does anyone have any background on him? Where did he come from, how did he pull up through the ranks, what did he do for a living (train, breed, etc?), what's he doing now? When I first got involved with birddogs I was interested in Delmar Smith and learned as much as I could about him, then it was Bob Wehle. Shoot, I've read and learned more on Bob Wehle than all the subjects I learned in college combined! Haha. Anyhow, I've never been able to find much on Ferrel. Not much in articles, books, nothing. I just ordered his video and really liked it, but would like to know more.

Pretty much all I know is that he was one of a group of guys - including Lester Arnold - known as The Company who did a ton of breeding and a ton of winning based out of Kentucky. I know he was inducted in the HOF before something went awry and since then he's been out of birddogs, but this is not the place to publicly get into all of that.

Ferrel's out of dogs? News to me

You need to leave some things alone....this is complete silliness

Dude, this is like asking to have a middle school slumber party in the Sistine chapel.

Your not going to learn much about Miller on here. I think you have the wrong company also

I will try to answer your questions as best I can. Ferrel is from kentucky and worked for the State of Kentucky's agriculture department. My understanding is that he helped farmers with the state programs that were available to them. He developed a breeding program based on Riggins White Knight. He has been very successful both as a breeder and a field trial competitor. Ferrel always seemed to operate right on the edge of the rules. Years ago he came up with a way to maintain his amateur status while still having owners pay all, or a portion of the bills. The American Field passed a rule that specifically addressed this practice, and it has always been known as the 'Ferrel Miller Rule'. More recently the American Field passed a rule that all dogs winning a championship would be required to submit DNA. Some dogs did not pass these DNA tests and Ferrel was banned from competing in American Field trials, or registering dogs with the American Field. He is still out there breeding and training dogs, but the ownership of the dogs is in someone elses name.

Many people defend Ferrel on the DNA issues because he did not own the dams of the misregistered dogs, and it was the dams that were misrepresented. I am a huge fan of Miller bred pointers, and I can't imagine a day when I do not own several Miller bred pointers. I would think that Ferrel is past 80 years old, and he is still going strong.

Best breeder in the history of the breed.

Thanks, Rinker. It's amazing how little is out there regarding him when you consider how substantial he was, or, I guess I should say, "is."

He worked with D. Hoyle Eaton, the man who handled Riggins White Knight and Red Water Rex. Both of these dogs figured prominently in Miller's breeding program.

Stoneface wrote: know he was inducted in the HOF before something went awry and since then he's been out of birddogs, but this is not the place to publicly get into all of that.

Actually this is the place to discuss all that. This is a birddog forum and people come here to learn. Just because some on this website may not like what is being typed does not mean this is not the place to discuss it. That's why people on some of the other websites on the internet talk trash about them and the owner of the website has to get involved.

I personally am a big fan of the man. Whether or not the correct sire and dams matched up on paper is irrelevant. The man knew how to pair two good dogs together to get what he wanted and his legacy carries on today. In my opinion if a man won't cheat to win he don't wanna win bad enough.

Ross Callaway is the new ferrel miller that is who you need to talk to..

Gauge1 wrote:Ross Callaway is the new ferrel miller that is who you need to talk to..

Why is that?

Gauge1 wrote:Ross Callaway is the new ferrel miller that is who you need to talk to..

Someone has a man crush. :roll: How can you be serious? Miller is still in the game as good as ever. Dont get me wrong, Ross has some dang nice dogs.

Gauge1 wrote:Ross Callaway is the new ferrel miller that is who you need to talk to..

I don't care who you are, that right there is funny!!!!!!!!!!!!

10 years it will all be Caladen dogs just wait in see.
Elhew was big,then Miller and next in line will be Caladen. Jack will be the next Snakefoot-SilverBullet...

glk7243 wrote:

Gauge1 wrote:Ross Callaway is the new ferrel miller that is who you need to talk to..

I don't care who you are, that right there is funny!!!!!!!!!!!!

+1

Gauge1 wrote:Ross Callaway is the new ferrel miller that is who you need to talk to..

that right there is funny

Gauge1 wrote:10 years it will all be Caladen dogs just wait in see.
Elhew was big,then Miller and next in line will be Caladen. Jack will be the next Snakefoot-SilverBullet...

This is even funnier.

tommyboy72 wrote: In my opinion if a man won't cheat to win he don't wanna win bad enough.

Wow!. I think I now remember why I got out of field trialing..

Gauge1 wrote:10 years it will all be Caladen dogs just wait in see.
Elhew was big,then Miller and next in line will be Caladen. Jack will be the next Snakefoot-SilverBullet...

He is off to a very good start, but right now he has not made it to the top 100, let alone your top 3. I wish him good luck, it is a tough road, I don't think he has handled a dog to a NC qualifying win, I believe Luke did. And now Dr. Fred owns half of Jack and is handling him while Ross gets settled in his new digs.

There is a ton of info on Ferrel at the Bird Dog Museum in Grand Junction.

"if a man won't cheat to win he don't wanna win bad enough".

That is a sad statement indeed. I guess that's what competition does to some people. I will never want to win that bad.

Steve

What would be the advantage of not disclosing the actual dam? I mean it's not like your breeding pointer into a GSP line; it's pointer x pointer...

bb560m wrote:What would be the advantage of not disclosing the actual dam? I mean it's not like your breeding pointer into a GSP line; it's pointer x pointer...

Alot of things are better left unsaid...

bb560m wrote:What would be the advantage of not disclosing the actual dam? I mean it's not like your breeding pointer into a GSP line; it's pointer x pointer...

It was a mistake, the mistake was rectified which is why the NC title stood...... The rest was a personal vendetta.....

What's going on with Ross? Is he leaving Echo?

birddog1968 wrote:

bb560m wrote:What would be the advantage of not disclosing the actual dam? I mean it's not like your breeding pointer into a GSP line; it's pointer x pointer...

It was a mistake, the mistake was rectified which is why the NC title stood...... The rest was a personal vendetta.....

I believe a dog from that infamous litter is to be inducted to the HOF next month. The whole 2004 National Championship incident is documented on the Field's website. The bio info can be found in a 2003 article from Kentucky Living. Personally, I'm rather fond of Miller's Happy Jack, but I like big pretty dogs. I believe Jack came out of some of Joe Don House's white dog breeding.

tommyboy72 wrote:

Stoneface wrote: know he was inducted in the HOF before something went awry and since then he's been out of birddogs, but this is not the place to publicly get into all of that.

Actually this is the place to discuss all that. This is a birddog forum and people come here to learn. Just because some on this website may not like what is being typed does not mean this is not the place to discuss it. That's why people on some of the other websites on the internet talk trash about them and the owner of the website has to get involved.

I personally am a big fan of the man. Whether or not the correct sire and dams matched up on paper is irrelevant. The man knew how to pair two good dogs together to get what he wanted and his legacy carries on today. In my opinion if a man won't cheat to win he don't wanna win bad enough.

This is the best post I have ever seen on here. Absolutely agree. Let people see what is going on instead of gossip.
Cj

Gauge1 wrote:10 years it will all be Caladen dogs just wait in see.
Elhew was big,then Miller and next in line will be Caladen. Jack will be the next Snakefoot-SilverBullet...

Nothing better for New Years than a good laugh. No offense to Ross but 10 years from now he will likely have disappeared from the American Field scene (not like dogs he owns/has trained really have appeared) and Jack will be another of a long list of nice dogs that have come and gone in the field trial world.
Ferrel is still around and in my opinion the entire American Field fiasco came down to a personal vendetta between Bernie's camp (and followers) and "the company".

Stoneface wrote:What's going on with Ross? Is he leaving Echo?

Yes he has left Echo. Just like the star free agent with all the offers coming in from all over the league, Ross was a free agent and had someone pony up and offer him a better deal kinda like the Lebron James deal from a few years back.

I see nothing wrong with the original post. These threads are great as long as they stay peaceful. If they don't that's what we have Ezzy for.

Stoneface you need to get on phone today and try and beg and get in on the ground floor of the Calden empire, that way you be able to learn training under the master and learn breeding and so forth under the guru himself instead of the internet. If you get in now you might even be able to have your pic on the steps of the big house when Jack pulls off the Big Dance. There will be a line a mile long after the win at Ames comes now be the time for you to take the plunge and be all you can be.....

Ferrel got barred because he used different stud dogs than the litter registrations indicated .it had nothing to do with the misrepresentation of dams. There were several dogs that he sold or bred that won championships that did not DNA!! How would like to pay big money for a dog that ultimately could not be registered.

quote="Gauge1"]Stoneface you need to get on phone today and try and beg and get in on the ground floor of the Calden empire, that way you be able to learn training under the master and learn breeding and so forth under the guru himself instead of the internet. If you get in now you might even be able to have your pic on the steps of the big house when Jack pulls off the Big Dance. There will be a line a mile long after the win at Ames comes now be the time for you to take the plunge and be all you can be.....[/quote]
Are you still drunk?

Gauge1 wrote:10 years it will all be Caladen dogs just wait in see.
Elhew was big,then Miller and next in line will be Caladen. Jack will be the next Snakefoot-SilverBullet...

Bullet alone won 25 All-Age Championships with Ferrel :roll: . Ross has zero All-Age Championships with any dog same as most of us and Jack has zero Championships. Very nice dog I'm sure with two RU Ch's as a shooting dog. I'm in no way bashing Ross but comparing him to a legend HOFer like Ferrel Miller is ignorant and extremely dis-respectful. You are too funny and thanks for the laughs .

Gauge1 wrote:Stoneface you need to get on phone today and try and beg and get in on the ground floor of the Calden empire, that way you be able to learn training under the master and learn breeding and so forth under the guru himself instead of the internet. If you get in now you might even be able to have your pic on the steps of the big house when Jack pulls off the Big Dance. There will be a line a mile long after the win at Ames comes now be the time for you to take the plunge and be all you can be.....

You really are a big time dreamer it's a long way from Navda to the Ames plantation, but I do wish him luck.

Ron R wrote:quote="Gauge1"]Stoneface you need to get on phone today and try and beg and get in on the ground floor of the Calden empire, that way you be able to learn training under the master and learn breeding and so forth under the guru himself instead of the internet. If you get in now you might even be able to have your pic on the steps of the big house when Jack pulls off the Big Dance. There will be a line a mile long after the win at Ames comes now be the time for you to take the plunge and be all you can be.....

Are you still drunk?

Gauge1 wrote:10 years it will all be Caladen dogs just wait in see.
Elhew was big,then Miller and next in line will be Caladen. Jack will be the next Snakefoot-SilverBullet...

Bullet alone won 25 All-Age Championships with Ferrel :roll: . Ross has zero All-Age Championships with any dog same as most of us and Jack has zero Championships. Very nice dog I'm sure with two RU Ch's as a shooting dog. I'm in no way bashing Ross but comparing him to a legend HOFer like Ferrel Miller is ignorant and extremely dis-respectful. You are too funny and thanks for the laughs .[/quote]


Bullet NEVER won 25 Ch's that was True Spirit.. Jack is qualified for Ames so he has a good chance as he won Hobart Ames on the grounds..

zzzzzzzzz

Ron R wrote:

Gauge1 wrote:

Stoneface wrote:What's going on with Ross? Is he leaving Echo?

Yes he has left Echo. Just like the star free agent with all the offers coming in from all over the league, Ross was a free agent and had someone pony up and offer him a better deal kinda like the Lebron James deal from a few years back.

. I think Spirit won 17 but I know Bullet won 25.

Bullet did not win 25 True Spirit did

I am so thankful for you while I'm at work this morning. I can't stop laughing... killin me Thanks again gauge1!

You heard it here FIRST Ron R Calden will win 5 NC's u better hop on board and ride the train all the way to the big house choo choo ..

Gauge1 wrote:Ross Callaway is the new ferrel miller that is who you need to talk to..

This ought to make for an interesting chat one note. HAHA.

Jim

I like Ross and respect him but what you're saying is non-sense. My post's have been severely edited (for good reason) but this has been fun. Thanks again. Happy New Year

One thing Ferrel Miller did was bring competition to the field trial world. Don't know which pedigrees are right, or wrong, but he knew/knows how to put things together to win championships. The competition he brought has been good for the breed (pointers) in my opinion.

Steve

Gauge1 wrote:You heard it here FIRST Ron R Calden will win 5 NC's u better hop on board and ride the train all the way to the big house choo choo ..

Regardless of wich dog won how many AA Championships my point is that Ross is still very far behind him with zero as of now. That was my point.

Ron R wrote:

Gauge1 wrote:You heard it here FIRST Ron R Calden will win 5 NC's u better hop on board and ride the train all the way to the big house choo choo ..

Regardless of wich dog won how many AA Championships my point is that Ross is still very far behind him with zero as of now. That was my point.

My point Ron R is this is a ground breaking opportunity to get aboard on the new line of pointers that will be filling winners circles thru out the US. and even the world for that matter. Now is the time to get yourself stocked up on Caladen dogs before the videos and magazine articles hit and the price of them dogs will go thru the roof.

Ferrel Miller was and is a gifted breeder of pointers. He was and is a gifted trainer and handler...as good as the best of the pros. He beat them regularly. That is why someone poisoned one of his dogs. Incidentally Ed Husser, a pro himself, also had one of his best dogs poisoned, South Chief Bluduck was the dog's name, as I recall.

The Open all age game has had some really scummy folks in their midst.

The misrepresentation of pointer dog pedigrees was rampant in the days before DNA...in some circles it was common practice to falsify the pedigree so that other folks could not reproduce the same results as the champion dog. Again...scummy folks.

Probably the only major pointer breeder who did not falsify papers or deal with those who did was Whele, because he did not have to.

It should be known that the DNA fiasco was not the first time Mr. Miller was involved in, and found guilty of cheating. He was found to have conducted a "phone trial", which is an advertised trial which never actually takes place, but for which winners were submitted to the Am. Field. A select group of "competitors" were included in the phony "phone" trial and all of them knew what was going on. If any other folks called in to enter, they would be told the trial was full.

I think most can make a pretty good guess as to the identities of that select group of competitors.

This sort of thing is done to qualify dogs and to "build" their win records. He is a confirmed, documented cheat and what was done with Mr. Wiggins and Mr. Miller's champion stud dog was NOT a mistake. It was a calculated attempt to make a blue hen out of a brood female.

In my opinion, every single member of the "company", should have been banned for life from field trials because there is no way they all did not know about what was going on. You are known by the company you keep and when you hang with cheats and crooks....

But then, the majority of the best Miller dogs being bred for field trials would likely have been destroyed and that, in the long run, would not have been good for the breed or for field trials.


RayG

Gauge1 wrote:You heard it here FIRST Ron R Calden will win 5 NC's u better hop on board and ride the train all the way to the big house choo choo ..

You need to wipe off your chin, and put the liquor back in the cabinet.

Ray, thanks for telling it like it is.

Steve

Ferrel won something like 125 Championships, 100+ were amature All Age, most of the others were Open Derby. I think Lester may have actually won more open AA, as Ferrel made money selling young proven dogs. The number of champions he bred and started is off the charts, I don't think anyone else is close. Has to be in the thousands.

I feel like gauge1 is actually Ross posting under another name.



Ray, thank you for that insight. I had not known that and found it a very interesting read.