Could a German shorthaired pointer make it to Ames?

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Wed Dec 19, 2012 3:08 pm

And, could it win? Could a Brittany?

RayGubernat · Post by **RayGubernat** » Wed Dec 19, 2012 3:21 pm

Of course they "could".

The dog has to be FDSB registered and it has to win two of the listed qualifying trials to qualify.

Are there GSP's out there that can compete in the qualifying stakes. Yes there are.

Is it likely to happen anytime soon?

I don't think so.

RayG

Brooks Carmichael · Post by **Brooks Carmichael** » Wed Dec 19, 2012 3:29 pm

RayGubernat wrote:Of course they "could".

The dog has to be FDSB registered and it has to win two of the listed qualifying trials to qualify.

Are there GSP's out there that can compete in the qualifying stakes. Yes there are.

Is it likely to happen anytime soon?

I don't think so.

RayG

+1

Chukar12 · Post by **Chukar12** » Wed Dec 19, 2012 3:30 pm

I think it would take a perfect storm to qualify one...I fantasize about it, but winning two qualifying championships is a tall order. Just getting there is win enough...but beating that field is make a movie about it stuff.

I reported the Brittany Nationals this year and rode for a week with a judge that has judged The National Championship, I asked as many questions as i politely and respectfully could...I did not get the feeling our best this year were a threat on that stage...though it was never mentioned directly.

However, there is always Favor....Doug?

Winchey · Post by **Winchey** » Wed Dec 19, 2012 3:33 pm

Has DF qualified? I know he has won and placed in some big AF trials, just not sure if they were qualifiers.

ultracarry · Post by **ultracarry** » Wed Dec 19, 2012 3:37 pm

Chukar12 wrote:
However, there is always Favor....Doug?

If he did qualify, I bet we see a post about a bronze statue of that dog in front of his kennel....

MillerClemsonHD · Post by **MillerClemsonHD** » Wed Dec 19, 2012 3:55 pm

Do you realize how many people with pointers and setters are trying to qualify and haven't come close??? There are people who have been trying for 10-15 years to get a dog to Ames and haven't. Qualifying for Ames in and of itself is a great accomplishment. You guys throw around winning two CH's to qualify for Ames like every AA dog out there does it with no problem. There is a reason it is so prestigious and a dog that is qualified can be sold for $50k. Many before have spent many times that trying to get a dog there with no success.

Odds of anything other than a pointer or a setter every qualifying are slim to none. The setters are lucky to have a couple of reps in the field anymore, and if things don't change it will most likely be a pointer only trial in another decade or two.

This list of people around here that have even been to a weekend AA trial let alone a CH or Ames is pretty short so why ask that question here? If you want to talk about Ames go over to the FT forum and see what you can teach those guys about AA dogs and Ames.

Chukar12 · Post by **Chukar12** » Wed Dec 19, 2012 3:57 pm

MillerClemsonHD wrote:You guys throw around winning two CH's to qualify for Ames like every AA dog out there does it with no problem.

In this thread?

Where?

Winchey · Post by **Winchey** » Wed Dec 19, 2012 3:58 pm

Who the heck said it was easy or belittled the task. Am I reading the aame thread as you?

MillerClemsonHD · Post by **MillerClemsonHD** » Wed Dec 19, 2012 4:15 pm

Plenty of folks would say suggesting that a GSP or Britt could win 2 AA CH's to qualify for Ames is belittling what it takes to win those. And yes all of the threads here with all of the experts on ames and AA dogs, I don't ever see posting on the FT forum where a bunch of those AA owners and AA pros are reading.

Look I own two GSP's and wouldn't even enter them in a weekend AA stake as they couldn't win. One of the two maybe both could possibly compete at the SD level at times and probably at weekend trial settings.

I am sorry but neither of those breeds is going to be able to compete and win two AA CH's. There are few in the country that could even make their presence felt at a weekend trial.

I do have a coming derby pointer that I hope I can win a weekend derby stake with next year so he is qualified to run in CH's. Half qualified for Ames would be a heck of an accomplishment for me.

I don't pretend to be an expert about ames. I have been to weekend trials and seen what it takes to win there. I have been to a lot of AKC trials and seen dogs that run ngspa and AA Britts. They aren't even comparable to AA pointers. Barely so to SD's.

Chukar12 wrote:
MillerClemsonHD wrote:You guys throw around winning two CH's to qualify for Ames like every AA dog out there does it with no problem.
In this thread?

Where?

Winchey · Post by **Winchey** » Wed Dec 19, 2012 4:25 pm

Nobody did say that, Ray was the only one who approximated saying that and I see him posting on the trial forums all the time.

Elkhunter · Post by **Elkhunter** » Wed Dec 19, 2012 4:29 pm

MillerClemsonHD wrote:Plenty of folks would say suggesting that a GSP or Britt could win 2 AA CH's to qualify for Ames is belittling what it takes to win those. And yes all of the threads here with all of the experts on ames and AA dogs, I don't ever see posting on the FT forum where a bunch of those AA owners and AA pros are reading.

Look I own two GSP's and wouldn't even enter them in a weekend AA stake as they couldn't win. One of the two maybe both could possibly compete at the SD level at times and probably at weekend trial settings.

I am sorry but neither of those breeds is going to be able to compete and win two AA CH's. There are few in the country that could even make their presence felt at a weekend trial.

I do have a coming derby pointer that I hope I can win a weekend derby stake with next year so he is qualified to run in CH's. Half qualified for Ames would be a heck of an accomplishment for me.

I don't pretend to be an expert about ames. I have been to weekend trials and seen what it takes to win there. I have been to a lot of AKC trials and seen dogs that run ngspa and AA Britts. They aren't even comparable to AA pointers. Barely so to SD's.

Chukar12 wrote:
MillerClemsonHD wrote:You guys throw around winning two CH's to qualify for Ames like every AA dog out there does it with no problem.
In this thread?

Where?

How many AA CH's have you been to?

mask · Post by **mask** » Wed Dec 19, 2012 4:30 pm

The short reply would be no. This is one of those never say never deals. If you have ever been to ames or have a chance to, it is a worthwhile trip. You will see a grueling test of grit, spirit and bird finding ability. I don't know of any purebred dog but a pointer or a very few setters that have what it takes to endure those trials. There may very well be some out there and I for one would love to see them compete and do well.

Vision · Post by **Vision** » Wed Dec 19, 2012 4:32 pm

Cajun Casey wrote:And, could it win? Could a Brittany?

Didn't Leibchen Buddendorf run at Ames in the early 90's?

rkappes · Post by **rkappes** » Wed Dec 19, 2012 4:32 pm

I thought it would be fun to try and qualify an EB for Ames. Is it run that keeps GSPs and Britts from qualifying or is it their short tail? Do you think judges give other dogs besides pointers a fair look?

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Wed Dec 19, 2012 4:48 pm

Vision wrote:
Cajun Casey wrote:And, could it win? Could a Brittany?

Didn't Leibchen Buddendorf run at Ames in the early 90's?

She may have been half qualified, but no bobtail, especially not a dark dog, has run the NC.

Chukar12 · Post by **Chukar12** » Wed Dec 19, 2012 4:51 pm

MillerClemsonHD wrote:I do have a coming derby pointer that I hope I can win a weekend derby stake with next year so he is qualified to run in CH's. Half qualified for Ames would be a heck of an accomplishment for me.

I have a dog qualified to run in Championship stakes, 2 in fact, and I have placed a Brittany in an hour AFTCA stake against only pointers and setters, at least one of whom has went on to win a championship qualifying stake subsequently, I think I have a pretty good idea of what i am looking at and i think i have accurately described the challenge and the length of odds it might take to even get 1 legitimate win.

MillerClemsonHD wrote:I don't pretend to be an expert about ames. I have been to weekend trials and seen what it takes to win there. I have been to a lot of AKC trials and seen dogs that run ngspa and AA Britts. They aren't even comparable to AA pointers. Barely so to SD's.

Well, that may be half the requirement to tell folks what is and isn't a reasonable thought process? Fact certainly doesn't work and opinion doesn't seem right...but whatever the word is, wouldn't you have to witness some of these championships to know the whole deal and be emphatic enough to tell folks who have looked a bit their reasonable and conservative opinion is dead wrong?

Winchey · Post by **Winchey** » Wed Dec 19, 2012 5:03 pm

rkappes wrote:I thought it would be fun to try and qualify an EB for Ames. Is it run that keeps GSPs and Britts from qualifying or is it their short tail? Do you think judges give other dogs besides pointers a fair look?

200 plus years of breeding setters and pointers to be competitive in the venue, money, people willing to go through many dogs to get good ones.

rinker · Post by **rinker** » Wed Dec 19, 2012 5:19 pm

Chukar12 · Post by **Chukar12** » Wed Dec 19, 2012 5:19 pm

rkappes wrote:I thought it would be fun to try and qualify an EB for Ames. Is it run that keeps GSPs and Britts from qualifying or is it their short tail? Do you think judges give other dogs besides pointers a fair look?

I think they give them a "fair" look in most cases...someone will have a situation where they feel they were hosed...and in a pittance of them...maybe they were.

...but if you ride up and see this...

...and what you are looking for is this..

The folks asked to judge the quality of trial we are talking about...that I have personally witnessed, have an appreciation for what a pointer is even if they do not own them. The judges at Ames are going to largely be of that ilk...and they should be. MillerClemson is right, it is all highly...highly unlikely, just think of the obstacles...

Genuine or perceived athletic superiority for the venue at hand
Limited entries and participation by those outside the Setter and Pointer world
Largely atypical style by comparison to those breeds
Judges with a background of pointers and setters
There are lots more

However, some of my favorite trials to run are those and in the future i will probably forgo some Brittany travel and run those venues that are closer to me...I always enjoy myself and never feel out of place.

MillerClemsonHD · Post by **MillerClemsonHD** » Wed Dec 19, 2012 5:22 pm

How many AA CH's have you been to?[/quote]

Same number as most of the rest of the posters on this thread. 0. I said I have seen what it takes at weekend trials and it takes more than that for a ch win.

How many people posting in this thread have a dog qualified for AA CH, won a Ch or had a dog run in one? Prob same answer from most.

I have watched multiple dogs that run in CH go on the praries and in south ga. I have watched previous AA britt NC go and I is night and day. Sorry that's all there is to it.

There are not the dogs in the other breeds to do it. Besides that a stub tail isn't gonna get put up, it barely happens at a weekend trial.

cjuve · Post by **cjuve** » Wed Dec 19, 2012 5:30 pm

Cajun Casey wrote:And, could it win? Could a Brittany?

Maybe, not likely, probably not

The only shot I think one would have is on the West Coast and even then the Nat Qualifiers have some pretty stiff competition.

MillerClemsonHD · Post by **MillerClemsonHD** » Wed Dec 19, 2012 5:43 pm

In all honesty we can't get a 30-40 dog AA ngspa entry where it is gsps only. Pointer guys go through way more dogs in weekend stakes. A CH draws more than that. We can't realistically expect to find dogs at the top of that level that could then be equal to 100s of pointers already at that level. All politics aside we don't have the qty of dogs to go through to get to that level. Breeding two true AA CHs and the hope is to find ONE with potential out of the litter.

How many dogs do u think the big time AA pointer guys go through to get to 4 worth campaigning in derby in hopes 1-2 of those make AA dogs. It's more than 10-12 pups.

We should be talking about how we can get 50 gsps that have what it takes to run ngspa AA stakes. How do we get to 100 dog SD CH in ngspa? Then we can talk about maybe there are a handful at the top that could cross over.

I put my gsp on the grnd with 2 AA pointers in mt when we hunted off hb. They are two diff animals.

If we want gsps to be pointers then we need not talk Abt what's in the woodpile and be happy with the results or worry Abt the woodpile and stop trying to make AA pointers ou of gsps!

Winchey · Post by **Winchey** » Wed Dec 19, 2012 5:47 pm

Then you are still at a disadvantage because the AA pointer guys are breeding their AA pointers to AA pointers too lol.

SetterNut · Post by **SetterNut** » Wed Dec 19, 2012 5:54 pm

A Britt or a GSP that could compete with the pointers and the Setters would be a freak of nature.

Stoneface · Post by **Stoneface** » Wed Dec 19, 2012 6:02 pm

I think it would be awesome if a no-name Shorthair showed up and fed the Pointers nothing but dust. I love Pointers, but have always been a sucker for an under dog.

ultracarry · Post by **ultracarry** » Wed Dec 19, 2012 6:16 pm

MillerClemsonHD wrote:
I put my gsp on the grnd with 2 AA pointers in mt when we hunted off hb. They are two diff animals.

If we want gsps to be pointers then we need not talk Abt what's in the woodpile and be happy with the results or worry Abt the woodpile and stop trying to make AA pointers ou of gsps!

I'm not mocking you or your dog, but looking at the pedigree... I'm assuming you have a gun dog or big running gun dog/ short shooting dog. So the result should be as you witnessed. Huge difference. Now if you put all age GSP's down with those all age pointers it may be a lot closer.

MR. Favor has had some success and I don't think its because he is running a gun dog against an all age dog. He is running a dog that's an All Age dog.

If your just comparing run to run, I may know a dog that can move with the best of em. Just not competed in that venue. I would say most dogs will not be able to compete and some of those dogs run way to big for a 30 minute stake, with a pro that runs AKC and NGSPA, ypu aren't going to be competing in those AF trials.

cmc274 · Post by **cmc274** » Wed Dec 19, 2012 6:24 pm

I was thinking about starting a topic and ask if pigs can fly. About as realistic. The thought that a shorthair* could compete in an 3 hour endurance stake with dogs that have been bred for 100 years for the sole purpose of winning the trial in question is stupid. Could a shorthair get qualified? Possibly, maybe one linebred out of the right 'line' that is raised on, hunted, trialed on certain type of terrain and on certain game birds. Maybe if I hunted the hands down, best shorthair in the country on wild quail on grounds that resembled Hoffman (or insert other grounds with multiple qualifying trials) and took him to every trial from derby age through his prime to learn the grounds, birds, etc. Brits? Even tougher, lets just say purebred setters have a hard time making the list.

Anyone ever seen or heard of a shorthair or brit finishing (or running in) any endurance stakes? Southern, Continental, Free for All? How about the canadian prairie CHs? I havent, you know why? Those trials are extreme tests of dogs that specialize in finding and pointing birds for over a century. Maybe a century from now its a different story. What if you told someone in 1900 that pointers would outnumber setters 20:1, they would have told you that you were an idiot.

Be realistic about what the breed was developed to do and dont try to make it into something it isnt.

*Even willing to include linebred dogs that resemble pointers, but with short tails.

Chukar12 · Post by **Chukar12** » Wed Dec 19, 2012 6:27 pm

cmc274 wrote:Anyone ever seen or heard of a shorthair or brit finishing (or running in) any endurance stakes? Southern, Continental, Free for All?

Rick Smith...Pacolet's Cheyenne Sam

MillerClemsonHD · Post by **MillerClemsonHD** » Wed Dec 19, 2012 6:32 pm

ultracarry wrote:
MillerClemsonHD wrote:
I put my gsp on the grnd with 2 AA pointers in mt when we hunted off hb. They are two diff animals.

If we want gsps to be pointers then we need not talk Abt what's in the woodpile and be happy with the results or worry Abt the woodpile and stop trying to make AA pointers ou of gsps!
I'm not mocking you or your dog, but looking at the pedigree... I'm assuming you have a gun dog or big running gun dog/ short shooting dog. So the result should be as you witnessed. Huge difference. Now if you put all age GSP's down with those all age pointers it may be a lot closer.

MR. Favor has had some success and I don't think its because he is running a gun dog against an all age dog. He is running a dog that's an All Age dog.

If your just comparing run to run, I may know a dog that can move with the best of em. Just not competed in that venue. I would say most dogs will not be able to compete and some of those dogs run way to big for a 30 minute stake, with a pro that runs AKC and NGSPA, ypu aren't going to be competing in those AF trials.

Doug probably has some of the biggest running gsps in the country. He has won SD stakes recently with his.

Yes the pedigree for the on in my sig is a gd and occasionally a SD. I have another not there that is a SD all day and has what it takes to run in some weekend pointer SD trials. She is still no where close to an AA dog. She has a lot of white on her though so not sure u count her as a Gsp.

We only have 12-15 AA gsps in the Gsp world. Look at ngspa entries. Maybe there is a small handful that don't get run but if they really are then someone would have bought them and put them on the circuit to win with.

Put the biggest run ing Gsp down in a trial with every pointer qualified for Ames o that has won a ch in the past year odd of that Gsp finishing anywhere but last are slim.

cmc274 · Post by **cmc274** » Wed Dec 19, 2012 6:40 pm

Chukar12 wrote:
cmc274 wrote:Anyone ever seen or heard of a shorthair or brit finishing (or running in) any endurance stakes? Southern, Continental, Free for All?
Rick Smith...Pacolet's Cheyenne Sam

Sweet, give me some details, google didnt help me out.

Chukar12 · Post by **Chukar12** » Wed Dec 19, 2012 6:51 pm

sorry i am mobile now ...heading over the mountain for four days of chukars. but it was three hours....don't recall the trial but he won
I bet Arlette knows details

DGFavor · Post by **DGFavor** » Wed Dec 19, 2012 7:10 pm

Entertaining stuff fellars!! The blind leading the blind!!

I'll give the answers to the questions as asked one time and one time only then after that you've got to get off your duffs, saddle up, go out and watch and learn for yourselves because until you do, you, to put it bluntly, just don't know chit.

:

Could a German shorthaired pointer make it to Ames? Absolutely - I have seen, with my own eyes, out in real dirt, with real dogs, real birds, real judges, real people, heck even with my own real dogs, GSP's win championships over pointers and setters that were qualified to enter the Nat'ls but hadn't gone as well as over dogs that had ran at the Nat'ls multiple times (meaning they had qualifed and requalified) to know that is absolutely possible. Not a far stretch in my feeble mind that if we can beat 'em once, we can beat 'em again.

Could it win? Absolutely - if they can qualify for the thing, they can win the thing - by most folks accounts the thing is won by luck of the draw.

Could a brittany? Absolutely. Although I haven't seen one in the AA winner's circle out here I've seen a few entered here and there that could win on any given day.

If you haven't participated, you really don't have any idea but simply put, these things are freakin' hard - you're not just running against nice dog flesh, you're competing against humans that are experts at the game, professionals - they don't necessarily need a better dog to beat ya'. I guarantee you a expert handler/showman, a good scout in country they know with a decent dog can win AA Chs and the dog never even make an AA cast...they just give the appearance that it did. Last year at a Nat. qualifier I had a really nice run with Bugs that he did all on his own and there is no way in heck that he got beat by 2 better dogs (on those given days), we just got beat by guys that played a better game (on those given days...and requalified both their dogs to go to the Nat'ls) - I can say that because I'm buddies with the guys that won and know exactly the shenanigans they did to do it. "bleep"!!

We'll enter 'em again this year, pull our own shenanigans if we have to if the dog isn't gonna do it on his own, see if it might be our day...and if it is, I guess we'll have a real life answer to the question won't we.

He has won SD stakes recently with his.

And RUCh in the Reg. 10 Am. All Age Ch couple months ago. Bugs ran rampant the first 20 minutes and opened the door to get beat - had the best last 40 minutes of AA I've seen - finds on big covey of huns, big covey of chuks, a couple finds on planters and absolutely filled the country, bout made me cry. Lots of folks had him winner but I knew we left the door open. Oh, the dog he was RU to...qualified for the Nat'ls this year, ran at the Nat'ls in the past. 2 other dogs in the stake...qualified for the Nat'ls this year, ran at Nat'ls in the past. Don't make me start posting pictures!!

cmc274 · Post by **cmc274** » Wed Dec 19, 2012 7:43 pm

Chukar12 wrote:
cmc274 wrote:Anyone ever seen or heard of a shorthair or brit finishing (or running in) any endurance stakes? Southern, Continental, Free for All?
Rick Smith...Pacolet's Cheyenne Sam

International Endurance Shooting Dog Championship, 1972. Impressive stuff.

dead mike · Post by **dead mike** » Wed Dec 19, 2012 8:27 pm

DGFavor wrote:Entertaining stuff fellars!! The blind leading the blind!!

I'll give the answers to the questions as asked one time and one time only then after that you've got to get off your duffs, saddle up, go out and watch and learn for yourselves because until you do, you, to put it bluntly, just don't know chit. :

Could a German shorthaired pointer make it to Ames? Absolutely - I have seen, with my own eyes, out in real dirt, with real dogs, real birds, real judges, real people, heck even with my own real dogs, GSP's win championships over pointers and setters that were qualified to enter the Nat'ls but hadn't gone as well as over dogs that had ran at the Nat'ls multiple times (meaning they had qualifed and requalified) to know that is absolutely possible. Not a far stretch in my feeble mind that if we can beat 'em once, we can beat 'em again.

Could it win? Absolutely - if they can qualify for the thing, they can win the thing - by most folks accounts the thing is won by luck of the draw.

Could a brittany? Absolutely. Although I haven't seen one in the AA winner's circle out here I've seen a few entered here and there that could win on any given day.

If you haven't participated, you really don't have any idea but simply put, these things are freakin' hard - you're not just running against nice dog flesh, you're competing against humans that are experts at the game, professionals - they don't necessarily need a better dog to beat ya'. I guarantee you a expert handler/showman, a good scout in country they know with a decent dog can win AA Chs and the dog never even make an AA cast...they just give the appearance that it did. Last year at a Nat. qualifier I had a really nice run with Bugs that he did all on his own and there is no way in heck that he got beat by 2 better dogs (on those given days), we just got beat by guys that played a better game (on those given days...and requalified both their dogs to go to the Nat'ls) - I can say that because I'm buddies with the guys that won and know exactly the shenanigans they did to do it. "bleep"!! We'll enter 'em again this year, pull our own shenanigans if we have to if the dog isn't gonna do it on his own, see if it might be our day...and if it is, I guess we'll have a real life answer to the question won't we.

He has won SD stakes recently with his.
And RUCh in the Reg. 10 Am. All Age Ch couple months ago. Bugs ran rampant the first 20 minutes and opened the door to get beat - had the best last 40 minutes of AA I've seen - finds on big covey of huns, big covey of chuks, a couple finds on planters and absolutely filled the country, bout made me cry. Lots of folks had him winner but I knew we left the door open. Oh, the dog he was RU to...qualified for the Nat'ls this year, ran at the Nat'ls in the past. 2 other dogs in the stake...qualified for the Nat'ls this year, ran at Nat'ls in the past. Don't make me start posting pictures!!

pls post pics and pls explain some of the games the handlers can play. I have run in trials in the past but nothing to the magnitude of what your sunning in. real curious on some tricks the top handlers do and what the small guy can do to counter them.?

TRoberts · Post by **TRoberts** » Wed Dec 19, 2012 8:30 pm

DGFavor wrote:Entertaining stuff fellars!! The blind leading the blind!!

I'll give the answers to the questions as asked one time and one time only then after that you've got to get off your duffs, saddle up, go out and watch and learn for yourselves because until you do, you, to put it bluntly, just don't know chit. :

Could a German shorthaired pointer make it to Ames? Absolutely - I have seen, with my own eyes, out in real dirt, with real dogs, real birds, real judges, real people, heck even with my own real dogs, GSP's win championships over pointers and setters that were qualified to enter the Nat'ls but hadn't gone as well as over dogs that had ran at the Nat'ls multiple times (meaning they had qualifed and requalified) to know that is absolutely possible. Not a far stretch in my feeble mind that if we can beat 'em once, we can beat 'em again.

Could it win? Absolutely - if they can qualify for the thing, they can win the thing - by most folks accounts the thing is won by luck of the draw.

Could a brittany? Absolutely. Although I haven't seen one in the AA winner's circle out here I've seen a few entered here and there that could win on any given day.

If you haven't participated, you really don't have any idea but simply put, these things are freakin' hard - you're not just running against nice dog flesh, you're competing against humans that are experts at the game, professionals - they don't necessarily need a better dog to beat ya'. I guarantee you a expert handler/showman, a good scout in country they know with a decent dog can win AA Chs and the dog never even make an AA cast...they just give the appearance that it did. Last year at a Nat. qualifier I had a really nice run with Bugs that he did all on his own and there is no way in heck that he got beat by 2 better dogs (on those given days), we just got beat by guys that played a better game (on those given days...and requalified both their dogs to go to the Nat'ls) - I can say that because I'm buddies with the guys that won and know exactly the shenanigans they did to do it. "bleep"!! We'll enter 'em again this year, pull our own shenanigans if we have to if the dog isn't gonna do it on his own, see if it might be our day...and if it is, I guess we'll have a real life answer to the question won't we.

He has won SD stakes recently with his.
And RUCh in the Reg. 10 Am. All Age Ch couple months ago. Bugs ran rampant the first 20 minutes and opened the door to get beat - had the best last 40 minutes of AA I've seen - finds on big covey of huns, big covey of chuks, a couple finds on planters and absolutely filled the country, bout made me cry. Lots of folks had him winner but I knew we left the door open. Oh, the dog he was RU to...qualified for the Nat'ls this year, ran at the Nat'ls in the past. 2 other dogs in the stake...qualified for the Nat'ls this year, ran at Nat'ls in the past. Don't make me start posting pictures!!

I dare ya!!!!

MillerClemsonHD · Post by **MillerClemsonHD** » Wed Dec 19, 2012 9:24 pm

When a shorthair wins at broomhill, kennebec, southwestern, continental, Florida, Georgia Ch etc the. We can talk about them deserving to be at Ames! Until then we can't even compete at a Big time CH!

If there are shorthairs or britts that can compete with AA pointers sign them up and run them with the big boys.

jetjockey · Post by **jetjockey** » Wed Dec 19, 2012 9:52 pm

Miller.. Is this you?

As the title says this post has been a long time coming. We finally broke the ice and won a broke stake this weekend. Had a placement or two as well as some last minute disasters that prevented placements, but were not to be denied this weekend. We took 1st in a walking AGD stake on Saturday and 1st in a HB ALGD stake on Sunday at the trial hosted by the Sandhills Pointing Dog Club at H Cooper Black FT grounds in SC. She really dug in and did a nice job finding birds both days.

viewtopic.php?f=79&t=39577

Not a shot at you, but if you have only been to weekend trials, and never even seen an AA championship, how do you know what it does, and doesn't take to qualify at Ames? How many times have you road Ames? How many trials outside the SE have you been to?

brad27 · Post by **brad27** » Wed Dec 19, 2012 9:53 pm

MillerClemsonHD wrote:When a shorthair wins at broomhill, kennebec, southwestern, continental, Florida, Georgia Ch etc the. We can talk about them deserving to be at Ames! Until then we can't even compete at a Big time CH!

If there are shorthairs or britts that can compete with AA pointers sign them up and run them with the big boys.

Are those the only Nat. CH qualifying stakes?

Post by **slistoe** » Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:04 pm

Chukar12 wrote:
cmc274 wrote:Anyone ever seen or heard of a shorthair or brit finishing (or running in) any endurance stakes? Southern, Continental, Free for All?
Rick Smith...Pacolet's Cheyenne Sam

Shooting Dog Stake, wasn't it?

Sorry, didn't read far enough to see it was answered.

MillerClemsonHD · Post by **MillerClemsonHD** » Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:15 pm

jetjockey wrote:Miller.. Is this you?

As the title says this post has been a long time coming. We finally broke the ice and won a broke stake this weekend. Had a placement or two as well as some last minute disasters that prevented placements, but were not to be denied this weekend. We took 1st in a walking AGD stake on Saturday and 1st in a HB ALGD stake on Sunday at the trial hosted by the Sandhills Pointing Dog Club at H Cooper Black FT grounds in SC. She really dug in and did a nice job finding birds both days.

viewtopic.php?f=79&t=39577

Not a shot at you, but if you have only been to weekend trials, and never even seen an AA championship, how do you know what it does, and doesn't take to qualify at Ames? How many times have you road Ames? How many trials outside the SE have you been to?

Yup that's me!!!

I have been to weekend AA trials, and seen AA pointers go on the prairies and in GA. How many AA CH have you been to? I have seen the brit AA NC go. Nice dogs that I'd be proud to own but I'm sorry they aren't in the AA pointer league. I actually own a pointer with the intention of running CH's and if he is good enough could go to Ames.

If your britt is so good load him up and take him to lee county, or Ames, or the continental or....! Let me know I bring my horses and come watch u show them how it's done!!

I have t won "bleep" in the AA world but I know a Gsp or britt can't play with the big boys! Your welcome to be the first to prove me wrong!!

MillerClemsonHD · Post by **MillerClemsonHD** » Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:17 pm

brad27 wrote:
MillerClemsonHD wrote:When a shorthair wins at broomhill, kennebec, southwestern, continental, Florida, Georgia Ch etc the. We can talk about them deserving to be at Ames! Until then we can't even compete at a Big time CH!

If there are shorthairs or britts that can compete with AA pointers sign them up and run them with the big boys.
Are those the only Nat. CH qualifying stakes?

Nope just the biggest. If gsps and britts can compete there then they have a reason to talk and say they belong!

MillerClemsonHD · Post by **MillerClemsonHD** » Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:24 pm

jetjockey wrote:Miller.. Is this you?

As the title says this post has been a long time coming. We finally broke the ice and won a broke stake this weekend. Had a placement or two as well as some last minute disasters that prevented placements, but were not to be denied this weekend. We took 1st in a walking AGD stake on Saturday and 1st in a HB ALGD stake on Sunday at the trial hosted by the Sandhills Pointing Dog Club at H Cooper Black FT grounds in SC. She really dug in and did a nice job finding birds both days.

viewtopic.php?f=79&t=39577

Not a shot at you, but if you have only been to weekend trials, and never even seen an AA championship, how do you know what it does, and doesn't take to qualify at Ames? How many times have you road Ames? How many trials outside the SE have you been to?

You want to share your handling record? How many CHs you handled in AF? FT wins?

I don't need a 100 wins to know the diff between a Gsp/britt and an AA pointer. It's easy to see.

brad27 · Post by **brad27** » Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:25 pm

Not a shot at you, but if you have only been to weekend trials, and never even seen an AA championship, how do you know what it does, and doesn't take to qualify at Ames? How many times have you road Ames? How many trials outside the SE have you been to?

I think Doug answered your question.

Croix · Post by **Croix** » Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:27 pm

Shorthair, have a chance. Britt, not a chance, but owners will come up with lots of stories/excuses....

jetjockey · Post by **jetjockey** » Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:33 pm

My little Brits too small, to roan, and doesn't run big enough to run with HB dogs. But this wasn't about my dog. I was just curious how someone with so little experience can judge what it does or doesn't take to qualify a dog. If you've never even ridden a 1 hr trial, how do you even know what it takes to win?

brad27 · Post by **brad27** » Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:35 pm

MillerClemsonHD wrote:
brad27 wrote:
MillerClemsonHD wrote:When a shorthair wins at broomhill, kennebec, southwestern, continental, Florida, Georgia Ch etc the. We can talk about them deserving to be at Ames! Until then we can't even compete at a Big time CH!

If there are shorthairs or britts that can compete with AA pointers sign them up and run them with the big boys.
Are those the only Nat. CH qualifying stakes?
Nope just the biggest. If gsps and britts can compete there then they have a reason to talk and say they belong!

So, only pointers and setters that win there can say they belong? What about all the other long tails that qualify at the "other" Nat. Qualifiers? Do they not deserve to be there?

Neil · Post by **Neil** » Thu Dec 20, 2012 2:03 am

Back in the early 90's there was a GSP half qualified (won one qualifying trail, the Cajin I think), he was owned by the same lady that owned HOF Brush Country Spector.

There have only been very few AA Brittanys, lyle Johnson won with. We have done better in SD Ch, Rick Smith as mentioned, Jim Holman with Pizzaz at the Egyptian SD Ch with RU. I have been winning now and then since the 80's in weekend pointer SD stakes, and have had a couple good showings in the Ames Amature, but no placements. The Ames Amature is ran on the same courses as the NC, as was the AKC GD Ch. There are two trials ran at Ames each year that are open to FDSB dogs, you all ought to come down.

I have been going to Ames since the 70's, and AA trials since the 60's, I think I have a good handle on what it takes to win at the highest levels.

There are very few honest one hour GSP, and fewer Britts, and I have seen none that could go 3 hours at Ames in the Feb mud, doesn't mean there are not any, just I have not seen them. I honestly do not think we will see a GSP or Britt at the NC in our lifetimes, not mine for sure. They would have to take the dog off their circuit where they dominate to run and rarely place against pointers. BTW, I don't think it is biased judging (i have only found 3 or 4 bad judges), it is just that tough.

For the most part I think we ought to stick to our venues and have fun.

Neil · Post by **Neil** » Thu Dec 20, 2012 2:30 am

Just remembered the name of the handler of the AA winning GSP, it was Ed Husser, he also handled Spector. Can't remember the owner or the dog, met her a couple times though.

Something I find interesting is the total lack of surprise from the pointer guys when we do win. They know there are good dogs of every breed. I have always been treated very well when at pointer trials. I say pointer trials because there are very few setters running in the Mid-South.

gotpointers · Post by **gotpointers** » Thu Dec 20, 2012 4:27 am

The laughable part is that the gsp and Brittany crowd can't win at Ames due to ability. But the pointers can't win at many of their event's because they are closed breed events.