burn it or turn it under?

[jimbo&rooster]

we have 100acres of CRP ground here on the farm. coming into the 3rd year we are required to start disturbing 1/3 of it at a time. Are we better to line things up to burn it off or should we just turn it under? ive got till spring to line things up one way or the other.

Jim

[hustonmc]

burn baby burn

[ezzy333]

we have 100acres of CRP ground here on the farm. coming into the 3rd year we are required to start disturbing 1/3 of it at a time. Are we better to line things up to burn it off or should we just turn it under? ive got till spring to line things up one way or the other.

Jim

I think all you have to do is mow it. At least that is all I have ever done or seen anyone else do.

Ezzy

[topher40]

Burn it and turn a third.

[daniel77]

FWIW, I started burning my pastures a few years ago during the winter. Mostly just to get rid of the dead piles of grass that had good grass underneath that the horses and cattle couldn't get to. I can tell you that the difference this simple thing has made to my pastures is staggering. When it comes back the color and quality of the forage is tremendously better. I'd think that the same thing would carry true for bird habitat, plus you are constantly removing "fuel" if an out of control fire ever comes along, so that your place will be spared so much damage. Wish the Forest Services Nation wide would do a lot more controll
ed burns.

[RoostersMom]

Burning is by far the preferred method to manage grasslands for the benefit of upland birds. The suggestion to run a controlled fire through and then LIGHTLY disk a third is great advice as well - a fall disking is preferred over a spring one, but that may not be possible if you're burning this spring. I strongly urge you to get a wildlife plan developed for your farm by a pheasants forever or quail forever farm bill wildlife biologist - they'll help you get a prescribed burn plan written as well. Use your burn lines to plant wheat - keeps the fire lanes open and provides a diversity of habitat. If you have native grasses then you'll want to burn later to set them back a bit. Fescue - then you'll want to burn to set it back as well and provide some weedy and forb growth which is what you want for quail and other small game. You're not wanting to improve your grass cover if you are interested in wildlife....you are wanting to set back the grasses and create more weeds! Good forage is not your goal when managing for wildlife habitat - good weedy cover is what you're looking for - and bare ground....quail need between 25% and 40% bare ground - you don't get that with good forage or with mowing.


As for mowing....ARGGGHHHH.... that's singlemost the worst thing you can do in the name of "management." Throwing thatch back onto an overgrown fescue (or native) grassland goes against the main goal of creating bare ground. People do that because they always have - it is not an approved mid-contract management practice - for good reason. You are just creating a monoculture when you mow - it really cuts down your diversity in your stand when you continually mow. We in the wildlife biology profession have tried for years to get quality practices (management and installation both) on the ground that will benefit quail and other wildlife. There are even ways you can get help with planting something other than fescue or brome on your CRP nowadays!

[birdogg42]

Burning is by far the preferred method to manage grasslands for the benefit of upland birds. The suggestion to run a controlled fire through and then LIGHTLY disk a third is great advice as well - a fall disking is preferred over a spring one, but that may not be possible if you're burning this spring. I strongly urge you to get a wildlife plan developed for your farm by a pheasants forever or quail forever farm bill wildlife biologist - they'll help you get a prescribed burn plan written as well. Use your burn lines to plant wheat - keeps the fire lanes open and provides a diversity of habitat. If you have native grasses then you'll want to burn later to set them back a bit. Fescue - then you'll want to burn to set it back as well and provide some weedy and forb growth which is what you want for quail and other small game. You're not wanting to improve your grass cover if you are interested in wildlife....you are wanting to set back the grasses and create more weeds! Good forage is not your goal when managing for wildlife habitat - good weedy cover is what you're looking for - and bare ground....quail need between 25% and 40% bare ground - you don't get that with good forage or with mowing.


As for mowing....ARGGGHHHH.... that's singlemost the worst thing you can do in the name of "management." Throwing thatch back onto an overgrown fescue (or native) grassland goes against the main goal of creating bare ground. People do that because they always have - it is not an approved mid-contract management practice - for good reason. You are just creating a monoculture when you mow - it really cuts down your diversity in your stand when you continually mow. We in the wildlife biology profession have tried for years to get quality practices (management and installation both) on the ground that will benefit quail and other wildlife. There are even ways you can get help with planting something other than fescue or brome on your CRP nowadays!

X2

[Angus]

Burning is by far the preferred method to manage grasslands for the benefit of upland birds. The suggestion to run a controlled fire through and then LIGHTLY disk a third is great advice as well - a fall disking is preferred over a spring one, but that may not be possible if you're burning this spring. I strongly urge you to get a wildlife plan developed for your farm by a pheasants forever or quail forever farm bill wildlife biologist - they'll help you get a prescribed burn plan written as well. Use your burn lines to plant wheat - keeps the fire lanes open and provides a diversity of habitat. If you have native grasses then you'll want to burn later to set them back a bit. Fescue - then you'll want to burn to set it back as well and provide some weedy and forb growth which is what you want for quail and other small game. You're not wanting to improve your grass cover if you are interested in wildlife....you are wanting to set back the grasses and create more weeds! Good forage is not your goal when managing for wildlife habitat - good weedy cover is what you're looking for - and bare ground....quail need between 25% and 40% bare ground - you don't get that with good forage or with mowing.


As for mowing....ARGGGHHHH.... that's singlemost the worst thing you can do in the name of "management." Throwing thatch back onto an overgrown fescue (or native) grassland goes against the main goal of creating bare ground. People do that because they always have - it is not an approved mid-contract management practice - for good reason. You are just creating a monoculture when you mow - it really cuts down your diversity in your stand when you continually mow. We in the wildlife biology profession have tried for years to get quality practices (management and installation both) on the ground that will benefit quail and other wildlife. There are even ways you can get help with planting something other than fescue or brome on your CRP nowadays!

Spot on. Great post!!!

I was going to type something similar this morning, but I just didn't have the time.

[Wildweeds]

I'd burn it and chain harrow afterwards,I've noticed it helps a ton in my pasture when doing that.Seems like the ash creates some type of fertilizer that really encourages growth.

[mrcreole]

We have had good success burning our fields as well.......Saves a fortune in diesel as well.

[Soilman]

I'd definitely check with your local NRCS office for what your acceptalbe options are. For many of those programs, you will violate the agreement if you "turn" the soil.
Other than that, if burning is acceptable, I believe it to be the most beneficial method.

[ezzy333]

I think we all need to remember that CRP is not a wildlife program but rather a conservation set-a-side program and people are paid a rental fee each year to maintain it. Everyone needs to check with the USDA office in their region to see what is permissible in their case. One of the main objectives is to keep the soil secure and lessen the amount of erosion that takes place, both water and wind. If this can be done and enhance the wildlife environment at the same time we all come out ahead. But do get permission for whatever you do before doing something that will forfeit your yearly rent payment and possibly forfeit any payments in the future for that land.

Ezzy

[ezzy333]

I think we all need to remember that CRP is not a wildlife program but rather a conservation set-a-side program and people are paid a rental fee each year to maintain it. Everyone needs to check with the USDA office in their region to see what is permissible in their case. One of the main objectives is to keep the soil secure and lessen the amount of erosion that takes place, both water and wind. If this can be done and enhance the wildlife environment at the same time we all come out ahead. But do get permission for whatever you do before doing something that will forfeit your yearly rent payment and possibly forfeit any payments in the future for that land.

Ezzy

[ezzy333]

I think we all need to remember that CRP is not a wildlife program but rather a conservation set-a-side program and people are paid a rental fee each year to maintain it. Everyone needs to check with the USDA office in their region to see what is permissible in their case. One of the main objectives is to keep the soil secure and lessen the amount of erosion that takes place, both water and wind. If this can be done and enhance the wildlife environment at the same time we all come out ahead. But do get permission for whatever you do before doing something that will forfeit your yearly rent payment and possibly forfeit any payments in the future for that land.

Ezzy

[RoostersMom]

I think we all need to remember that CRP is not a wildlife program but rather a conservation set-a-side program and people are paid a rental fee each year to maintain it. Everyone needs to check with the USDA office in their region to see what is permissible in their case. One of the main objectives is to keep the soil secure and lessen the amount of erosion that takes place, both water and wind. If this can be done and enhance the wildlife environment at the same time we all come out ahead. But do get permission for whatever you do before doing something that will forfeit your yearly rent payment and possibly forfeit any payments in the future for that land.

Ezzy

Things are a-changin' in this big bad world - so don't try to remember that CRP is not a wildlife program. Wildlife is a co-equal in the program now! The farm bill language was re-written years ago to give wildlife concerns EQUAL weight with soil & water quality concerns. Wildlife concerns no longer take a back seat to soil concerns - even though the program was initiated because of erosion concerns - a lot has changed since the first farm bill in the late 80's. Ezzy is right, folks do need to check with their local USDA office or Pheasants Forever/Quail Forever Farm Bill Wildlife Biologist (who work out of a USDA office) to see what is permissible. Burning and disking are the management tools that are recommended for mid contract management. Mowing is not a good (or even acceptable) option for mid contract management of general CRP or continuous CRP programs like CP33 or CP38 SAFE. Mowing is permitted to control noxious weeds - but it isn't a long term management strategy. Participants are paid a fee to manage their CRP - things like burning and disking can be paid for using these funds. Most often, the producer/landowner conveniently "forgets" that he is receiving this payment and when it comes time to do management, they don't want to spend the money to hire a contractor. Burning is cheap and easy - and the best for wildlife of all the options.

[nikegundog]

I think we all need to remember that CRP is not a wildlife program but rather a conservation set-a-side program and people are paid a rental fee each year to maintain it. Everyone needs to check with the USDA office in their region to see what is permissible in their case. One of the main objectives is to keep the soil secure and lessen the amount of erosion that takes place, both water and wind. If this can be done and enhance the wildlife environment at the same time we all come out ahead. But do get permission for whatever you do before doing something that will forfeit your yearly rent payment and possibly forfeit any payments in the future for that land.

Ezzy

Actually Ezzy the CRP program is both a wildlife conservation and a soil conservation program, along with improving water quality, if you go to any of their websites they will state that.

[nikegundog]

Burning is cheap, as far as easy...after you been called for about the 50th time because another controlled burn getting away from them, you may have a different perspective...volunteer fireman, regards.

[Cajun Casey]

Burning is cheap, as far as easy...after you been called for about the 50th time because another controlled burn getting away from them, you may have a different perspective...volunteer fireman, regards.

Sounds like a good time to form a burn association and talk to the local department about participation.

[ezzy333]

Please come and tell our offices here in the mid-west how this program works. I have 50 acres that I can't even enroll because we haven't raised crops on it in the past five years as we have kept it in cover crops and 250 acres that isn't eligible. And the payment you get is the amount you are willing to take on a yearly basis and they are willing to pay and varies from farm to farm as well as county to county.

I think we are all aware that the program has really aided wild life but the deciding factor is still soil conservation. They pay on the basis of crop yeilds and not how many birds you have. Just hope we can keep some kind of program but with grain in short supply and prices good I don't think the government will be willing to pay what the crops are worth.

Ezzy