Who has the right to name the dog?

Hilltop · Post by **Hilltop** » Sat Dec 01, 2012 9:43 am

I am just throwing that question out there. I believe that if you buy a pup you have the right to name the dog. I as a breeder and buyer believe that it is the owners right to name the dog. According to the AKC registration form in a red heading it states. Name of Dog: The Registering Owner Has the Right to Name the Dog. The reason I bring this up is that I purchased a pup with full AKC registration and it had the kennels name in the dog name box. I registered the dog with the name I wanted. I as a breeder give permission for the use of my kennel name but don't force it. After all that said I was just looking for a little input about this question.

ultracarry · Post by **ultracarry** » Sat Dec 01, 2012 10:01 am

You have the right to name and do whatever you want. White out works great! Or register it online and you keep the paperwork anyway.

Unless there was an agreement I would say do as you wish.

Brazosvalleyvizslas · Post by **Brazosvalleyvizslas** » Sat Dec 01, 2012 10:08 am

Depends on what kind of relationship you wanna keep with that breeder and in your Breed. Talk to the breeder, you can always split kennel names.

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Sat Dec 01, 2012 10:21 am

I register all the pups in a litter. Owners give me the name they want. I don't use my prefix unless they want to. I use the breeder's prefix on outside dogs.

nikegundog · Post by **nikegundog** » Sat Dec 01, 2012 11:00 am

Hilltop wrote: Name of Dog: The Registering Owner Has the Right to Name the Dog.

Doesn't get much clearer than that. There is nothing stopping the breeder from registering the pups, thus controlling the name if that's what they want to do, but outside of that, its the owners right.

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Sat Dec 01, 2012 11:08 am

nikegundog wrote:
Hilltop wrote: Name of Dog: The Registering Owner Has the Right to Name the Dog.
Doesn't get much clearer than that. There is nothing stopping the breeder from registering the pups, thus controlling the name if that's what they want to do, but outside of that, its the owners right.

New owner can change the name in AKC.

nikegundog · Post by **nikegundog** » Sat Dec 01, 2012 11:10 am

Cajun Casey wrote:
nikegundog wrote:
Hilltop wrote: Name of Dog: The Registering Owner Has the Right to Name the Dog.
Doesn't get much clearer than that. There is nothing stopping the breeder from registering the pups, thus controlling the name if that's what they want to do, but outside of that, its the owners right.
New owner can change the name in AKC.

Not without permission from the breeder.
http://www.akc.org/pdfs/ADCG01.pdf

Back · Post by **Back** » Sat Dec 01, 2012 12:19 pm

If the litter owner registers the dog, then it takes written consent to change the name... Consent from the litter owner.

DonF · Post by **DonF** » Sat Dec 01, 2012 1:11 pm

I got my dog's paper's with the kennel name filled in. I used white out on it and wrote in my own name's. If the kennel owner had asked I'd probably have used his kennel name. He never said a word. Then a couple years down the road he found out about it and boy was he upset! Tuff!

ultracarry · Post by **ultracarry** » Sat Dec 01, 2012 1:39 pm

Don I'm with you 100%. Tuff!

Ms. Cage · Post by **Ms. Cage** » Sat Dec 01, 2012 3:22 pm

We do ask that pups we breed carry our kennel name. Never had a problem with that. Some kennels will not sell a pup that doesn't carry there kennel name. Some will void any type of guarantee.

campgsp · Post by **campgsp** » Sat Dec 01, 2012 4:44 pm

I personally wouldnt buy a pup from a breeder if they wouldn't let me name it.
I have no problem using a Kennel name in the pedigree. Its nice to do. And people know where the dog came from.
I'm a pedigree "chaser" as some would call it. And Kennel names help me research a litter. And keep track of the lines I follow.

Every man for himself. But not doing what the breeder asks might set you up to not get another pup from them.
Like I said if they want to name the dog not just the Kennel name don't buy it.

Vonzeppelinkennels · Post by **Vonzeppelinkennels** » Sat Dec 01, 2012 5:45 pm

I don't require anyone using my kennel name but they are welcome to if they want.I would not buy from anyone that required me to use theirs,my money & my dog once I pay my money & I will name it TO MY LIKING!! Simple as that,ALL OTHER BS aside.

CHJIII · Post by **CHJIII** » Sat Dec 01, 2012 6:01 pm

I don't have an "official" kennel name. All of the people I sold the 13 pointer pups from this litter were more than happy to use the "Fireshell" prefix on their pups. Heck most of them kept the call names I had given them. I told them the kennel name was optional, but they all, with no excpetions used it. Hopefull as I get closer to retirement, I'll register the kennel name. I might even register it before the litter I have in the spring.

TAK · Post by **TAK** » Sat Dec 01, 2012 10:57 pm

I have sold pups to folks that asked if they could use the kennel name. I think it is an honor that they felt that sort of respect, but in no way did I ever ask them or come close to demand it. This is something that has been hashed out before and it once was said if you use the kennel name it is easy to know how the dog was bred. I think that this day and age with the .com/.net it is a simple look up of a dog and you can see about any thing that you want.

I to ran into this years back when I bought a pup. When I got the papers on the dog I noticed that this persons kennel name was in ink already. White out does work well... Now if that was part of the deal then I would have done it. Just talk it out....

Hilltop · Post by **Hilltop** » Sun Dec 02, 2012 5:22 am

I should state that there was no deal or agreement made to use the breeders name.

cjhills · Post by **cjhills** » Sun Dec 02, 2012 7:52 am

German breeders named their puppies with the first letter in the name corresponding to the aphabetical order of the litter and a suffix kennel name. It gave them a good way to track dogs bred by them. Some breeders still do this. I personally find it a little more than I want to deal with. Z and Q are a little tough on a big litter..
We name the puppies we buy with our prefix and the breeders name as a suffix. The puppies we breed have our name as a suffix and we like our buyers to name them that way. some do and some don't.
This gives us a quick way to keep track of the dogs.
I recently bought a puppy that had the kennel name on the papers as the prefix. With the breeders consent I will change that. I think NAVHDA requires the breeders name on the registration. Not sure about that. Probably will find out. Cj

JKP · Post by **JKP** » Sun Dec 02, 2012 8:06 am

The first owner of the pup is the breeder...who has a right to name it if he/she wishes. If you have picked a name, and that is more important than getting a dog from that breeder, go somewhere else. I spend the money to buy a pup, pay the vet bills, do the training, pay for HD certification, testing, hunt the dog for 2-3 years, and put the $1000's into proving out a good breeding dog, I get to name the pups. Let's not talk of the money I put into dogs that don't make it.

Personally, if a buyer puts more importance on their name than getting the pup that I have worked hard to put on the ground, I'll open the car door for them.

Besides, you can use any call name you want. Seems like a dumb questiuon (and concern) that keeps coming up.

Let me know when forward starts letting buyers put their own moniker on their cars.

Johng918 · Post by **Johng918** » Sun Dec 02, 2012 8:19 am

JKP wrote:The first owner of the pup is the breeder...who has a right to name it if he/she wishes. If you have picked a name, and that is more important than getting a dog from that breeder, go somewhere else. I spend the money to buy a pup, pay the vet bills, do the training, pay for HD certification, testing, hunt the dog for 2-3 years, and put the $1000's into proving out a good breeding dog, I get to name the pups. Let's not talk of the money I put into dogs that don't make it.

Personally, if a buyer puts more importance on their name than getting the pup that I have worked hard to put on the ground, I'll open the car door for them.

Besides, you can use any call name you want. Seems like a dumb questiuon (and concern) that keeps coming up.

Let me know when forward starts letting buyers put their own moniker on their cars.

I think people work just as hard to make the money to buy a pup as you do to put it on the ground.

JKP · Post by **JKP** » Sun Dec 02, 2012 8:44 am

So what's really the issue here?? Are folks gonna put their kennel name on a dog they didn't breed?? Is it really about having "Firebreather's Smoke the Grass at Dawn" on the paperwork??

I'm beginning to think either we have too much money or too much time on our hands.

Johng918 · Post by **Johng918** » Sun Dec 02, 2012 8:58 am

I feel if I buy a dog it belongs to me so if I chose to pay to have it registered I choose the name, With that being said my dogs have the breeders kennel name I never changed it but had the choice.

And I do agree if you will open the car door over someone wanting to change the name someone does have to much money and time on there hands.

Hilltop · Post by **Hilltop** » Sun Dec 02, 2012 9:36 am

I was not trying to start a war here. I as a breeder would also prefer to have my kennel name used just do not require it. I agree that a person that buys a dog works just as hard as the breeder. I am both and put plenty of research in both buying and breeding to have a litter.

nikegundog · Post by **nikegundog** » Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:56 am

Hilltop wrote:I was not trying to start a war here. I as a breeder would also prefer to have my kennel name used just do not require it. I agree that a person that buys a dog works just as hard as the breeder. I am both and put plenty of research in both buying and breeding to have a litter.

Hilltop, if you indeed decide as a breeder to insist on naming the pups at the very least disclose those details on your website and at first contact, don't try to backdoor the buyer with it. If a breeder decides its his right, then there is absolutely no need to hide it, it will save both yourself and the buyer time and headaches. I to have been handed a registration with the name filled out on the day I picked my pup.

Hilltop · Post by **Hilltop** » Sun Dec 02, 2012 11:09 am

I do not insist on my buyers using my kennel name. I give the buyer the choice if they want to or not. In the post that started the thread I as the buyer was not given the option.

Simply stated:I believe that the buyer has the right to decide what they use for a name. I just give them permission to use my kennel name if the want.

Elkhunter · Post by **Elkhunter** » Sun Dec 02, 2012 11:28 am

JKP wrote:The first owner of the pup is the breeder...who has a right to name it if he/she wishes. If you have picked a name, and that is more important than getting a dog from that breeder, go somewhere else. I spend the money to buy a pup, pay the vet bills, do the training, pay for HD certification, testing, hunt the dog for 2-3 years, and put the $1000's into proving out a good breeding dog, I get to name the pups. Let's not talk of the money I put into dogs that don't make it.

Personally, if a buyer puts more importance on their name than getting the pup that I have worked hard to put on the ground, I'll open the car door for them.

Besides, you can use any call name you want. Seems like a dumb questiuon (and concern) that keeps coming up.

Let me know when forward starts letting buyers put their own moniker on their cars.

So you would have no problem with the hospital naming your kid?

JKP · Post by **JKP** » Sun Dec 02, 2012 11:37 am

So you would have no problem with the hospital naming your kid?

Never had a vet ask to name the pups because he delivered them.

What a ridiculous topic....if the breeder won't knuckle under to your wad of cash...go find another breeder. Done deal....discussion over.

Elkhunter · Post by **Elkhunter** » Sun Dec 02, 2012 1:30 pm

The analogy is relevant just the same, many breeders deliver their own pups.

Its just as ridiculous to assume a breeder to name your dog as the hospital to name your child! I think its insane for a breeder to assume the naming rights of a pet/hunting companion that will spend 10+ years with my family, versus the 7-8 weeks at your/breeder's house!

Post by **ezzy333** » Sun Dec 02, 2012 3:33 pm

It clearly states that the owner at time of registation has the right to name the pup. I don't understand the whole premis of this thread unless someone was trying to get an argument going. No matter how long we discuss this or how many opinions are given the rule as published still stands.

Ezzy

Fester · Post by **Fester** » Sun Dec 02, 2012 5:21 pm

Thats right who ever wants to register the pup
Fester

sh0rthair · Post by **sh0rthair** » Sun Dec 02, 2012 7:04 pm

Vonzeppelinkennels wrote:I don't require anyone using my kennel name but they are welcome to if they want.I would not buy from anyone that required me to use theirs,my money & my dog once I pay my money & I will name it TO MY LIKING!! Simple as that,ALL OTHER BS aside.

+1

brad27 · Post by **brad27** » Sun Dec 02, 2012 7:16 pm

sh0rthair wrote:
Vonzeppelinkennels wrote:I don't require anyone using my kennel name but they are welcome to if they want.I would not buy from anyone that required me to use theirs,my money & my dog once I pay my money & I will name it TO MY LIKING!! Simple as that,ALL OTHER BS aside.
+1

If you bought a pup from someone and they asked you to include their kennel name would you?

asc · Post by **asc** » Sun Dec 02, 2012 7:51 pm

Elkhunter wrote:
JKP wrote:The first owner of the pup is the breeder...who has a right to name it if he/she wishes. If you have picked a name, and that is more important than getting a dog from that breeder, go somewhere else. I spend the money to buy a pup, pay the vet bills, do the training, pay for HD certification, testing, hunt the dog for 2-3 years, and put the $1000's into proving out a good breeding dog, I get to name the pups. Let's not talk of the money I put into dogs that don't make it.

Personally, if a buyer puts more importance on their name than getting the pup that I have worked hard to put on the ground, I'll open the car door for them.

Besides, you can use any call name you want. Seems like a dumb questiuon (and concern) that keeps coming up.

Let me know when forward starts letting buyers put their own moniker on their cars.
So you would have no problem with the hospital naming your kid?

Or the milkman..

asc · Post by **asc** » Sun Dec 02, 2012 7:56 pm

brad27 wrote:
sh0rthair wrote:
Vonzeppelinkennels wrote:I don't require anyone using my kennel name but they are welcome to if they want.I would not buy from anyone that required me to use theirs,my money & my dog once I pay my money & I will name it TO MY LIKING!! Simple as that,ALL OTHER BS aside.
+1
If you bought a pup from someone and they" ASKED" you to include their kennel name would you?

I would and no problem, if they demanded then I'd take my wad of cash elsewhere..

Vonzeppelinkennels · Post by **Vonzeppelinkennels** » Sun Dec 02, 2012 8:03 pm

Brad to me it's the same as signing a contract & I think you know how I feel about contracts.Would I if I were asked I'm not sure but seriously doubt I will ever buy another dog in my life as I have more then I need
including a couple that should have been bred & want to breed but can't seem to move pups in this economy.

sh0rthair · Post by **sh0rthair** » Sun Dec 02, 2012 9:25 pm

brad27 wrote:
sh0rthair wrote:
Vonzeppelinkennels wrote:I don't require anyone using my kennel name but they are welcome to if they want.I would not buy from anyone that required me to use theirs,my money & my dog once I pay my money & I will name it TO MY LIKING!! Simple as that,ALL OTHER BS aside.
+1
If you bought a pup from someone and they asked you to include their kennel name would you?

I would probably do it without being asked.
However, their kennel name wouldn't be first in the dog's name.

swansonbroth · Post by **swansonbroth** » Sun Dec 02, 2012 11:52 pm

New here, I find that registered names aren't what you end up calling the dog. If the dog is registered as "Candyland's sparky pumpkin house" and you choose to call it that in the field, only then do I see a problem. If the dog is registered as "Candyland's sparky pumpkin house" and you choose to call the dog Benny, the dog's name is Benny. What's written on paper doesn't really matter to me I suppose.

ThreeWires · Post by **ThreeWires** » Mon Dec 03, 2012 8:05 am

I had a breeder once send a 'contract' after I had purchased a dog from them. The dog was 6 months old, so they had ample opportunity to register the dog. Prior to the sale, we had discussed some of the points of the contract--health guarantees, etc. I cannot recall if I ever signed it or not but I do know I did not agree to using the name they had printed on the registration. After calling the AKC, I changed the name they had put on the registration.

I always tried to speak well of the breeder--despite them being a bit flakey--kept them informed of the dogs accomplishments, breedings, etc. Most people will know who a dog is bred from and most advertisements, etc. list the parentage--giving 'credit' to the breeder. Years later, I came across a web site where the breeder was bitching about what I did...but I guess I know the countless hours and dollars I put in to training, boarding, etc.

They bred a great dog and am thankful for that--but he was MY dog.

Just my thoughts and experience.

Ron R · Post by **Ron R** » Mon Dec 03, 2012 8:34 am

JKP wrote:Seems like a dumb questiuon (and concern) that keeps coming up.

I disagree. I feel quite strongly that the breeder has zero right to name someone elses pup and they also have an ego problem as well. Breeding dogs is not difficult if you have some pedigree and performance knowledge. There are alot of breeders that think they are some kind of genius' for making a good breeding thus comes the ego issues.

cjhills · Post by **cjhills** » Mon Dec 03, 2012 9:12 am

Ron R wrote:
JKP wrote:Seems like a dumb questiuon (and concern) that keeps coming up.
I disagree. I feel quite strongly that the breeder has zero right to name someone elses pup and they also have an ego problem as well. Breeding dogs is not difficult if you have some pedigree and performance knowledge. There are alot of breeders that think they are some kind of genius' for making a good breeding thus comes the ego issues.

Breeding dogs may not be difficult, but it is expensive and using kennel names makes a very good way to track dogs good or bad. Registered names don't mean a whole lot with out a kennel name or bloodline. It has nothing to do with ego. I think it is a good idea. i am against requiring a pup to run in some sort of competition to promote the kennel.
What ever trips your trigger Cj

Ron R · Post by **Ron R** » Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:11 am

Fair enough Cj. I'm also thinking from a competition stand point. I make Ch with one of my dogs and it has anothers kennel name in front of it. So, if a person didn't know better they would think the kennel trained, handled, and championed out the dog by looking at the pedigree. Mis-representation and the kennel knows that. That is where the ego problem stems IMO. When someone or some kennel takes full credit for anothers accomplishment I have a problem with that and am offended by it. That is what they are doing when they force a kennel name on a puppy buyer. Again, JMO.

UpNorthHuntin · Post by **UpNorthHuntin** » Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:22 am

I agree that the owner/purchaser has the inherent right to name the dog whatever they want. With that being said however, If I purchase a dog with unbelievable bloodlines and the kennels I purchased him from are consistantly putting out terrific dogs and have a reputation for outstanding animals, by including the kennel's (or sir or dams) name in my pups name, am I not increasing the potential value of my future pups???

Ron R · Post by **Ron R** » Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:26 am

cjhills wrote:Breeding dogs may not be difficult, but it is expensive

Sorry, I didn't adress your point. I believe if the breeding is gonna be a financial burden to the breeder don't make the breeding. More times than not the stud fee's are generally pretty affordable but transpertation can be an issue. I personally could never imagine forcing my kennel name on anybody out of pure respect for the buyer and treating people the way I would want to be treated.

rinker · Post by **rinker** » Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:30 am

Naming rights, breeding rights, etc... are the same as purchase price. If the price is higher than you want to pay, don't buy the pup. If the breeder wants to name the pup, and you don't like that, don't buy the pup. If the breeder wants to use the pup for future breeding, and you don't like that, don't buy the pup. If the breeder wants you to campaign the pup in a certain venue, and you don't want to, don't buy the pup. I honestly don't see what is difficult about this.

I do think that this particular board is pretty hard on breeders. When something goes wrong with a dog, the finger is immediately pointed at the breeder. When something like this comes up, however, the breeder is just some guy who threw two dogs in the pen together and has no say or rights about any thing.

DogNewbie · Post by **DogNewbie** » Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:42 am

This was my understanding...in ranking order:

Children
Wife
Owner
Breeder

Ron R · Post by **Ron R** » Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:43 am

rinker wrote:Naming rights, breeding rights, etc... are the same as purchase price. If the price is higher than you want to pay, don't buy the pup. If the breeder wants to name the pup, and you don't like that, don't buy the pup. If the breeder wants to use the pup for future breeding, and you don't like that, don't buy the pup. If the breeder wants you to campaign the pup in a certain venue, and you don't want to, don't buy the pup. I honestly don't see what is difficult about this.

I guess some people like to be bossed around and told what to do...I'm not one of them! I believe there is a huge difference between a puppy price and controlling another person's actions with what is now there property.

I have never gotten a sense of anti-breeder on this forum though.

JKP · Post by **JKP** » Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:21 am

I guess some people like to be bossed around and told what to do

Can we assume you ripped all the Ford monikers off your truck

Ron R · Post by **Ron R** » Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:23 am

JKP wrote:
I guess some people like to be bossed around and told what to do
Can we assume you ripped all the Ford monikers off your truck

How did you know I drove a ford truck?

My point is I could if I wanted too

.

rinker · Post by **rinker** » Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:28 am

I guess some people like to be bossed around and told what to do...I'm not one of them!

I honestly can't believe that we are even discussing this. These elements exist in all kinds of transactions. When buying a home, you may be restricted as to how you can use that home by neighborhood covenants, zoning restrictions, etc... You have the choice, however, of not buying the home or buying a home where there are less or no restrictions.

When you talk to a breeder about a puppy and he says the price is $500, and you have to use our prefix in the name. You have the option of saying, 'thank you for your time, but I will be purchasing a puppy elsewhere'. I can not understand who is being bossed around in this scenario.

I am not a breeder. I currently own six english pointers. One of them is named with the breeders prefix. The breeder asked me politely to use the prefix, and it really didn't matter to me any way, so I said 'sure'. He did not require that I use the prefix, and if it was a requirement, I had the option of saying, 'no thank you, I will buy a puppy from some one else'.

Ron R · Post by **Ron R** » Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:03 pm

rinker wrote:
I guess some people like to be bossed around and told what to do...I'm not one of them!
I honestly can't believe that we are even discussing this. These elements exist in all kinds of transactions. When buying a home, you may be restricted as to how you can use that home by neighborhood covenants, zoning restrictions, etc... You have the choice, however, of not buying the home or buying a home where there are less or no restrictions.

When you talk to a breeder about a puppy and he says the price is $500, and you have to use our prefix in the name. You have the option of saying, 'thank you for your time, but I will be purchasing a puppy elsewhere'. I can not understand who is being bossed around in this scenario.

I am not a breeder. I currently own six english pointers. One of them is named with the breeders prefix. The breeder asked me politely to use the prefix, and it really didn't matter to me any way, so I said 'sure'. He did not require that I use the prefix, and if it was a requirement, I had the option of saying, 'no thank you, I will buy a puppy from some one else'.

Everything you are saying is true and obvious but my opinion remains the same.

Chukar12 · Post by **Chukar12** » Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:06 pm

I breed dogs and I am in the who cares camp? There is risk and reward in having my name associated to a dog raised by someone else and I don't always know; though I wish I did, risk or reward? Which is the prevailing factor when I sell a pup ?...Branding is a big responsibility, it's a dangerous shortcut used by the demand side of a living breathing product ... and the supply side is not always as astute as it could be.