GSP Field Trialers Question

ElhewPointer · Post by **ElhewPointer** » Wed Oct 24, 2012 11:05 am

Just wondering what the GSP people's opinion is on a question I have.

Do you put more of an emphisis on winning the AKC AA National at Eureka or the NGSPA AA National at Booneville?
Would you rather win a FC in AKC or a Championship in the NGSPA?
Reasons?

Thanks.

Vonzeppelinkennels · Post by **Vonzeppelinkennels** » Wed Oct 24, 2012 11:17 am

I have never won either but in my opinion the NGSPA titles are the most prestigous though the AKC events are also highly sought after.I do have a FC that I bred & raised,& had she not injured her shoulder I believe she would have won a NGSPA CH or two & been very competitive at both Nat.She did run at both Nats once each before her injury & finished her FC with that bad shoulder.
I am very proud of her,the first dog I ever trialed & I bred & raised her did not buy her.

dan v · Post by **dan v** » Wed Oct 24, 2012 12:13 pm

ElhewPointer wrote:Just wondering what the GSP people's opinion is on a question I have.

Do you put more of an emphisis on winning the AKC AA National at Eureka or the NGSPA AA National at Booneville?
Would you rather win a FC in AKC or a Championship in the NGSPA?
Reasons?

Thanks.

I think the Booneville extraganza...Three courses, pre-released birds.

larue · Post by **larue** » Wed Oct 24, 2012 12:53 pm

hard to compare,akc you will defeat 100 dogs,ngspa 1/2 or less than that.
Booneville,a tough place to run,and find birds.Both harder in different ways.
I would take either one,and thank my luck.

ElhewPointer · Post by **ElhewPointer** » Wed Oct 24, 2012 1:23 pm

larue wrote:hard to compare,akc you will defeat 100 dogs,ngspa 1/2 or less than that.
Booneville,a tough place to run,and find birds.Both harder in different ways.
I would take either one,and thank my luck.

Actually, its quite easy to compare. There actually are 49 AA dogs in the AKC this year. Im not talking about the grounds, birds, etc.... That wasnt the question. What means more and why?

ultracarry · Post by **ultracarry** » Wed Oct 24, 2012 1:27 pm

Seeing that's there is double the entries at the gspca, the same dogs as the ngspa plus some, same handlers plus some... Sounds like the harder one to win would be Kansas. planted birds makes the running a little more even as far as birds on course .

Not that I would snub my nose at any of them.

DGFavor · Post by **DGFavor** » Wed Oct 24, 2012 1:52 pm

I read this question initially and didn't think I'd answer as I really have no preference...really I have no significant knowledge of either never having personally been. Neither is what I would call "an emphasis" for me personally but I do know I'd be personally proud if my dog got a piece of either simply because I know the dang things are hard to win no matter the venue or format.

I thought, being a nonconformist or simply being bad at reading questions

, I'd just focus on the "what would you rather win.." part of the question. Personally I am most interested in trials that most closely resemble what I do with my dogs...or more accurately most closely resemble what I personally believe bird dogs should be doing - which is pretty much hunting wild birds in "bird country" in varying conditions from gawwdawful hot to gawwdawful cold, usually at least an hour, typically longer, and often a few days in a row. So from a competition perspective I'd say my personal emphasis is wild bird venues, championship stakes, the weather you get is the weather you run in...and if I ever get lucky enough maybe go to a stake longer than an hour or that requires dogs to run multiple days like the Invitational formats.

Vonzeppelinkennels · Post by **Vonzeppelinkennels** » Wed Oct 24, 2012 1:54 pm

To answer the question of why one over the other.This is my opinion & sense I have never won neither probably not worth much.
A NGSPA CH are HR stakes that requires more stamina & endurance to win then 1/2 hr stakes plus the dog has more time to blow up so they better be broke.
The NGSPA Nats. takes a true AA dog to win where as the GSPCA can be won by a BIG shooting dog.
My avatar dog FC Star would run AA at Eureka but run SD at Booneville.

I would be very satisfied to win either,not an easy task to win either one of them & the dogs that win are deserving of the Titles!!

ElhewPointer · Post by **ElhewPointer** » Thu Oct 25, 2012 8:03 am

All the GSP trial folks on here and only 4 opinions????? Wow!

Wildweeds · Post by **Wildweeds** » Thu Oct 25, 2012 8:23 am

Ive been told the NGSPA Sharptail is the one you want to win,all wild birds and the best venue for a birddog in the country.The fellow that told me this goes everyyear to watch em go,he's run a dog or two but just a couple of times.

Hotpepper · Post by **Hotpepper** » Thu Oct 25, 2012 9:29 am

Been running them for 25 years, and have won the NGSPA and 14 NGSPA Championships, wild bird trials are my favorite and because I have and own GSP's, I would love to win the AA in Eureka, that is where the largest numbers shorthairs attend. My FC/AFC 11 X CH Dunfurs Hoosier LB just sparkled as a wild bird finder he was so amazing about his nose and going forward, at age 7 he severly injured his spine and had to retire with 11 NGSPA championships, he won from Maryland to Washington state, coast to coast. Arizona to Georgia. Wish we could have ran him another 3 - 4 years and see how many championships he would have won. Still a joy to be around at age 12. He followed his grandpa's tracks by winning at the NGSPA Pheasant AA Championships in Maryland and I would like to add the 3rd generation win there down the road, next year I Hope as he is again competitive.

My current trial dog Hoosier's Rev It Up J R, won a regional allage and was R/U at the 09 NGSPA Allage in Boonville, the boonville trial is a good one but the birds there are hard to come up with there. Probably too much emphasis on run with NGSPA in Boonville and don't find too many birds. My boy had 1 too many finds with 3 and the whole championship was with held.

I have worked and handled the futurity in Eureka but have never placed there in any stake, but have had some remarkable performances there with both of my current dogs. The GSPCA and NGSPA guys all work their butts off to put on great championships. I have judged and ran all over the country and have seen some marvelous peerformances. Building and making a better "Bird Dog" for the long run, my breedings have done that I feel.

Doug is a real competior and has placed way up in trials from both organizations, his Rocky dog was R/U in Eureka and shortly thereafter was dead from an unknown cancer, he was a heck of a dog. Futurity runner up as a youngster and FC/AFC with many other wins.

Hope this sheds some light on what u r looking for. Being pretty honest here. Planning a breeding in the near future that will be wonderful.

Pepper

Vonzeppelinkennels · Post by **Vonzeppelinkennels** » Thu Oct 25, 2012 9:55 am

Very good answer Jerry especially since you been there & done that.NICE

fuzznut · Post by **fuzznut** » Thu Oct 25, 2012 10:01 am

Those dogs who can win in multiple venues, from coast to coast... are the great dogs to me! They know how to, and are willing to switch gears and hunt/run the cover in front of them.

There seems to be some animosity between the GSPCA folks and the NGSPA folks.. is it real, or am I off base? If so, how come?

Fuzz

ElhewPointer · Post by **ElhewPointer** » Thu Oct 25, 2012 10:05 am

The reason I ask is because I've been asked to be a part of a comittee to bring, in my opionion, the best field trial to the NGSPA. This December will be the FIRST NGSPA Open Shooting Dog Invitational. I don't own GSP's, but I do have a passion for this sport. In my opinion, this will be the truest test for a field trial dog. Any dog can have his/her day, but you will find the true Champion with an invitational format. Here is how it breaks down.

After the Pheasant Ch. out East the points for the year will be over. The top 12 point earners will recieve an Invitation to the NGSPA Invitational held near Gentry, MO the first weekend in Dec. The format is such:

Friday 6 one hour braces. 3 am braces and 3 pm braces.
Sat. 6 one hour braces. 3 am braces and 3 pm braces.(dogs that ran in am will now run in pm.)
Sunday. Judges will call back as many dogs as they wish for a 1 1/2 hr final which a Champion will then be named.

The Judges are Todd Babbel of Iowa and Tony King of Missouri. Both of these men have won multiple Championships including National Championships along with being in the Invitational trials themselves.

The drawing and Calcutta will be held Thursday night and it plans on being quite an event. So bring your Sunday's best. The best GSP's in the country deserve the best fans, so dress like it.

The Champion named will recieve $5,000 in cash purse and also will recieve a Ross Young painting of the Champion to be revealed at next years Invitational. We as a comittee hope that this trial sets the bar for all trials but most of all, sets the standard for what the NGSPA Shooting Dog is. This really is a true test of an animal.

We hope that all of the field trial enthusiast would come to watch this awesome event. To say that you attended the first NGSPA Invitational and watched the Champion run for 3 1/2 hrs is a historic statement in the bird dog world. We hope you can make it.

DGFavor · Post by **DGFavor** » Thu Oct 25, 2012 10:11 am

Absolutely outstanding!

myerstenn · Post by **myerstenn** » Thu Oct 25, 2012 10:21 am

As a guy who has judged all three including the sharptail multiple times I think it be fair to invite th Akc AA winners to compete at the party. Then you could reasonably answer the Question. The winner used in 2011 was no boot licker.

ElhewPointer · Post by **ElhewPointer** » Thu Oct 25, 2012 10:31 am

myerstenn wrote:As a guy who has judged all three including the sharptail multiple times I think it be fair to invite th Akc AA winners to compete at the party. Then you could reasonably answer the Question. The winner used in 2011 was no boot licker.

I agree Ned, its not a matter of boot licker or not. Some of those dogs can fly. However, this is a NGSPA sanctioned event which will give points for the Dog of the Year, therefore its not offiliated with the AKC. Its just bring the best shooting dogs together to duke it out.

myerstenn · Post by **myerstenn** » Thu Oct 25, 2012 11:29 am

I throughly understand what it is!!!!

Post by **ezzy333** » Thu Oct 25, 2012 11:30 am

ElhewPointer wrote:All the GSP trial folks on here and only 4 opinions????? Wow!

It is pretty much a bogus question is what most are saying and I have to agree. I doubt if you will ever find a winner down grade what they just accomplished an tell anyone they would rather win the other. There is absolutely no reason to try and judge one against the other unless you have to take your dog to just one of them. And then your decision would apply to your preference and not that everyone thinks one is better than the other.

The difference is strictly the quality of the competition and that changes every year.

Ezzy

ElhewPointer · Post by **ElhewPointer** » Thu Oct 25, 2012 11:59 am

ezzy333 wrote:
ElhewPointer wrote:All the GSP trial folks on here and only 4 opinions????? Wow!
It is pretty much a bogus question is what most are saying and I have to agree. I doubt if you will ever find a winner down grade what they just accomplished an tell anyone they would rather win the other. There is absolutely no reason to try and judge one against the other unless you have to take your dog to just one of them. And then your decision would apply to your preference and not that everyone thinks one is better than the other.

The difference is strictly the quality of the competition and that changes every year.

Ezzy

Thanks Ezzy. You're such a positive person. Blah..... Its not down grading anything. Quit being glass half empty guy. :roll:

It is actually a very good question. For example the second question. Would you rather be a FC or Ch. They are two TOTALLY different kind of trials to accomplish both. Doing either of these is an awesome task.

Anyway.......I wanted to bring to light a new trial within the NGSPA.

Vonzeppelinkennels · Post by **Vonzeppelinkennels** » Thu Oct 25, 2012 12:06 pm

Vegas since this a SD Invitational then only the top 12 ranked SD would be invited right? AA dogs would have nothing to do with it correct,I have no problems with that just trying to
clarify what exactly we are talking about.

Hotpepper · Post by **Hotpepper** » Thu Oct 25, 2012 12:07 pm

That is just an outstanding opportunity for dogs to compete and that is what I like see, don't care about the breeding registry they come from, just bring them out and let em go.

There is a process afoot to allow the NGSPA winners to qualify to run with the GSPCA dogs in Eureka. The field trial committee approved that a couple of years ago but a person against it, removed it from the rules for running, tthe rules are set by the committee. (More politics)(Should not have happened)

U have my complete "go get em" and turn them loose

Pepper

bigoak · Post by **bigoak** » Thu Oct 25, 2012 12:11 pm

I think the AKC all age title is for a ribbon and a trophy. The American Field title has a monetary value with it!

ElhewPointer · Post by **ElhewPointer** » Thu Oct 25, 2012 12:13 pm

Vonzeppelinkennels wrote:Vegas since this a SD Invitational then only the top 12 ranked SD would be invited right? AA dogs would have nothing to do with it correct,I have no problems with that just trying to
clarify what exactly we are talking about.

Great question! This first year we are just doing the open shooting dog, with hopes to expand this to open AA, Am. shooting dog and Am. AA.

Vonzeppelinkennels · Post by **Vonzeppelinkennels** » Thu Oct 25, 2012 12:20 pm

(bigoak) Ribbon & Trophy yes but that can turn into money for a Stud dog & pups for the bitch.

Vegas the reason I ask is because your intial post mentioned AA nothing about SD but I'm happy to see some one maybe trying to put
the GSP trials up there along with some prestige of the long tails.

:

Hotpepper · Post by **Hotpepper** » Thu Oct 25, 2012 12:28 pm

If u need guys down the road to come and help I will volunteer now. Might have one to run someday.

The award was the verbotten thing for a long time, I am sure that is why there are two organizations, I highly respect what someone here is trying to do. The best dogs and the best handlers/owners out there gettin it on and letting the dogs settle it. WOW

Pepper

Post by **ezzy333** » Thu Oct 25, 2012 1:08 pm

Hotpepper wrote:That is just an outstanding opportunity for dogs to compete and that is what I like see, don't care about the breeding registry they come from, just bring them out and let em go.

There is a process afoot to allow the NGSPA winners to qualify to run with the GSPCA dogs in Eureka. The field trial committee approved that a couple of years ago but a person against it, removed it from the rules for running, tthe rules are set by the committee. (More politics)(Should not have happened)

U have my complete "go get em" and turn them loose

Pepper

Right on. I wasn't trying to run either one down but rather trying to downgrade the difference. I do see the reason for your question where you are trying to use it in developing a new event but still think the best part is having a new goal for people to aim for.

Ezzy

DGFavor · Post by **DGFavor** » Thu Oct 25, 2012 1:23 pm

Hmmm, doable.... http://mapq.st/TDMYrg

I realize it's an NGSPA event so largely makes sense to use points earned in NGSPA trials but the committee might consider for future "invite eligibility" to go by Purina Points totals like they have for handler of the year which reflects GSP participation in both AKC and NGSPA events...then of course, add to the eligible point earning trials all breed AF Ch. events as well (the list already includes the AKC All Breed Gun Dog Ch. so might as well throw in All Breed AF Ch events right!? Yes, I am blatantly trying to figure out a way to get an invite!

)

Vonzeppelinkennels · Post by **Vonzeppelinkennels** » Thu Oct 25, 2012 1:27 pm

Sounds like you might have to get out of your normal element Doug to qualify & get invited maybe next yr!!

Hunter · Post by **Hunter** » Thu Oct 25, 2012 3:29 pm

I would think thier would be a better time for this event, December in Iowa or just south of the border can be bitter cold at that time with last year being an exception. I would think you may want better weather conditions for such an event if you want people to come out and support it. Don't get me wrong I like it only being a couple hrs from me but don't want to shovel snow on the way either. Who is running this event and who is all on the committee, I had heard about this awhile ago but nothing ever came about.

Vonzeppelinkennels · Post by **Vonzeppelinkennels** » Thu Oct 25, 2012 3:56 pm

The major thing that comes to my mind is if only the top 12 dogs get invited is just how many would show up? I like the idea & all for it but might have to expand that no to make it viable money wise.
Any way Vegas I hope it gets off the ground but might have to go to all the other stakes to make it work.Just thinkin!!

ElhewPointer · Post by **ElhewPointer** » Thu Oct 25, 2012 4:02 pm

Hunter wrote:I would think thier would be a better time for this event, December in Iowa or just south of the border can be bitter cold at that time with last year being an exception. I would think you may want better weather conditions for such an event if you want people to come out and support it. Don't get me wrong I like it only being a couple hrs from me but don't want to shovel snow on the way either. Who is running this event and who is all on the committee, I had heard about this awhile ago but nothing ever came about.

The reason it is being held at this location and this time of year is for multiple reasons.

1. Central location within the U.S. We want every dog that has the oportunity to qualify for this event to get the chance to come.
2. No other NGSPA trials are held on these grounds. No one has any advantage.
3. The points for this trial go towards the Dog of the Year, therefore they need to be completed by the end of the year.
4. The last trials of the year are in Nov. So by the time we get points totalled up and invites out we need a little time.

Could it be cold out? Yes. Could it be tough conditions? Yes. Wouldn't it be awesome to know what dog can handle something like that? YES!!!!

There were many factors in choosing the location and time. We looked at many, many options for grounds. These grounds are amazing!!!! And there are wild birds on it. It was purchased and is being managed and maintained with the purpose of field trials in mind.

On a side note. The pointer AA national is held in Feb. and is often times very very cold. The Open Shooting Dog Invitational is also held in Feb. and can be very cold. It is one of the things we will have to run with to put together an event such as this. Thanks for your interest and hope to see you there.

ElhewPointer · Post by **ElhewPointer** » Thu Oct 25, 2012 4:05 pm

Vonzeppelinkennels wrote:The major thing that comes to my mind is if only the top 12 dogs get invited is just how many would show up? I like the idea & all for it but might have to expand that no to make it viable money wise.
Any way Vegas I hope it gets off the ground but might have to go to all the other stakes to make it work.Just thinkin!!

If a dog cant make it for a certain reason, maybe an injury or something to that matter, then you go to dog #13. This happens often in the other Invitational formats. Good point though. Thanks.

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Thu Oct 25, 2012 4:22 pm

What happens if you get a ten way tie each for eleventh and twelfth?

ACooper · Post by **ACooper** » Thu Oct 25, 2012 5:26 pm

This sounds like an awesome idea, I hope to be able to volunteer or at least come watch.

Hunter · Post by **Hunter** » Thu Oct 25, 2012 7:14 pm

Looking at the current NGSPA point leaders( last updated version on ngspa website anyway ) their seems to be allot of dogs tied in points, are you also considering Amt Shooting dog points. Or what about the dog who has points in both AA and shooting dog stakes or for that matter points in all three stakes, are you combining all those or just points in the shooting dog stakes. I can think of a dog like Mike Patricks Joker dog who has points in AA and both shooting dog stakes, one of the hottest dogs in the country but would that dog not be invited based on just the shooting dog points counting? I only use that dog as an example because of his points in all three stakes not just shooting dog as thier could be others in the same situation. The idea for this is great but it might be difficult to find a top 12 only, but thats what the committee is for.

ElhewPointer · Post by **ElhewPointer** » Thu Oct 25, 2012 7:18 pm

Cajun Casey wrote:What happens if you get a ten way tie each for eleventh and twelfth?

There are tie breakers. Number of dogs entered, etc....

ElhewPointer · Post by **ElhewPointer** » Thu Oct 25, 2012 7:19 pm

Hunter wrote:Looking at the current NGSPA point leaders( last updated version on ngspa website anyway ) their seems to be allot of dogs tied in points, are you also considering Amt Shooting dog points. Or what about the dog who has points in both AA and shooting dog stakes or for that matter points in all three stakes, are you combining all those or just points in the shooting dog stakes. I can think of a dog like Mike Patricks Joker dog who has points in AA and both shooting dog stakes, one of the hottest dogs in the country but would that dog not be invited based on just the shooting dog points counting? I only use that dog as an example because of his points in all three stakes not just shooting dog as thier could be others in the same situation. The idea for this is great but it might be difficult to find a top 12 only, but thats what the committee is for.

As I said in a previous post. This is only the Open Shooting Dog Invitational. Therefore Open Shooting Dog Points are counted. I also mentioned in the same post that we hope to run other Invitationals someday. This venue has the most participation so we went this route first hoping to expand.

That is one of the MAJOR differences in the pointer world versus the GSP world. In AF pointer/setters, for the most part a dog is either a AA dog or a shooting dog. So this could make it a bit tougher in the GSP invitationals.

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Thu Oct 25, 2012 7:41 pm

ElhewPointer wrote:
Cajun Casey wrote:What happens if you get a ten way tie each for eleventh and twelfth?

There are tie breakers. Number of dogs entered, etc....

In other words, that contingency wasn't considered. Sounds like cherrypicking. Where's the premium for this "best" trial?

Hunter · Post by **Hunter** » Thu Oct 25, 2012 7:55 pm

It sounds like to me you are trying to make this a English pointer trial as you keep referring to pointers and how you and they do it in some of your posts, last I heard this was supposed to be an ngspa ( German shorthair Pointers ) invitational. Why would you not include amt shooting dog points, a shooting dog is a shooting dog wether its amt handled or not, I can buy the AA justifacation but not this. I think the qualifacations should be posted so everyone can see, just how they did it on the NGSPA website for the new qualifiers for all championships.

ElhewPointer · Post by **ElhewPointer** » Thu Oct 25, 2012 7:59 pm

Cajun Casey wrote:
ElhewPointer wrote:
Cajun Casey wrote:What happens if you get a ten way tie each for eleventh and twelfth?

There are tie breakers. Number of dogs entered, etc....
In other words, that contingency wasn't considered. Sounds like cherrypicking. Where's the premium for this "best" trial?

Actually it was considered. Thank you though for looking into it. What if there are 10 dogs that tie for the dog of the year? There are tie breakers in place for that as well set by the NGSPA.

ElhewPointer · Post by **ElhewPointer** » Thu Oct 25, 2012 8:02 pm

Hunter wrote:It sounds like to me you are trying to make this a English pointer trial as you keep referring to pointers and how you and they do it in some of your posts, last I heard this was supposed to be an ngspa ( German shorthair Pointers ) invitational. Why would you not include amt shooting dog points, a shooting dog is a shooting dog wether its amt handled or not, I can buy the AA justifacation but not this. I think the qualifacations should be posted so everyone can see, just how they did it on the NGSPA website for the new qualifiers for all championships.

The reason this gets compared to the pointer invitational, is because the same format is being used. There is not another invitational to refer to other than those. The reason we are not including amt shooting dog points is because it isnt the amt shooting dog invitational or the amt/open shooting dog invitational. It is the Open Shooting Dog Invitational.

As far as qualifications go. Regional, Species and the National are all point awarded trials within the NGSPA.

Here are how the points system works.

http://www.ngspa.org/doy-standings.html

Hunter · Post by **Hunter** » Thu Oct 25, 2012 8:06 pm

When you say we decided, who is we, who is actually the president and VP and chairman of this event as well as the comittee that will be determining who gets the invite to come.

ElhewPointer · Post by **ElhewPointer** » Thu Oct 25, 2012 8:11 pm

Hunter wrote:When you say we decided, who is we, who is actually the president and VP and chairman of this event as well as the comittee that will be determining who gets the invite to come.

Points decide the invite. Do you understand the dog of the year points system. It is the SAME points. People do not determine who gets invited, the dogs do.

Regional Championships will include:
Great Lakes
Great Plains
Hawkeye
Ohio
Rocky Mt.
Savannah River
Regs. 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 8, 9, 12, 16, 17

Species Championships will include:
Chukar
Hun
Prairie Chicken
Quail
Sharptail
Pheasant

The National Championship will include:
The National Championship

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Thu Oct 25, 2012 8:35 pm

ElhewPointer wrote:Actually it was considered. Thank you though for looking into it. What if there are 10 dogs that tie for the dog of the year? There are tie breakers in place for that as well set by the NGSPA.

Actually, according to the latest information on the NGSPA website, if ten dogs tie for dog of the year and none are the standing national champion and they've all defeated the same number of dogs, they all get it.

DGFavor · Post by **DGFavor** » Thu Oct 25, 2012 8:37 pm

ElhewPointer wrote:
Hunter wrote:When you say we decided, who is we, who is actually the president and VP and chairman of this event as well as the comittee that will be determining who gets the invite to come.

Points decide the invite. Do you understand the dog of the year points system. It is the SAME points. People do not determine who gets invited, the dogs do.

Regional Championships will include:
Great Lakes
Great Plains
Hawkeye
Ohio
Rocky Mt.
Savannah River
Regs. 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 8, 9, 12, 16, 17

Species Championships will include:
Chukar
Hun
Prairie Chicken
Quail
Sharptail
Pheasant

The National Championship will include:
The National Championship

Idaho Open SD Ch (pretty sure you left it out! Honest mistake!

)

Middlecreek · Post by **Middlecreek** » Thu Oct 25, 2012 8:46 pm

Hunter wrote:It sounds like to me you are trying to make this a English pointer trial as you keep referring to pointers and how you and they do it in some of your posts, last I heard this was supposed to be an ngspa ( German shorthair Pointers ) invitational. Why would you not include amt shooting dog points, a shooting dog is a shooting dog wether its amt handled or not, I can buy the AA justifacation but not this. I think the qualifacations should be posted so everyone can see, just how they did it on the NGSPA website for the new qualifiers for all championships.

I'm sure there will be more info to follow in an official format... if you don't like it you can always decline the invitation if you were to ever receive one.

From what I know "we" is a group of ngspa field trialers that want to grow the sport in a positive way

ElhewPointer · Post by **ElhewPointer** » Thu Oct 25, 2012 8:47 pm

Cajun Casey wrote:
ElhewPointer wrote:Actually it was considered. Thank you though for looking into it. What if there are 10 dogs that tie for the dog of the year? There are tie breakers in place for that as well set by the NGSPA.
Actually, according to the latest information on the NGSPA website, if ten dogs tie for dog of the year and none are the standing national champion and they've all defeated the same number of dogs, they all get it.

If we have 10 dogs with 3 points, then we go to dogs beaten, then we added another tie breaker, the dog with that won a ch. rather than RU ch would have priority. For example

*1. ABC 11 pts
*2. DEF 10 pts
*2 GHI 10 pts
*4. JKL 9 pts
*4. MNO 9 pts
*6. PQR 7 pts
*7. STU 5 pts
*7. VWX 5 pts
*9. AAA 3 pts 40 dogs beat
*9. BBB 3 pts 38 dogs beat
*9. CCC 3 pts 38 dogs beat
*9. DDD 3 pts 37 dogs beat This dog won a Regional Ch.
9. EEE 3 pts 37 dogs beat This dog got RU-Ch at the Quail
9. FFF 3 pts 30 dogs beat
9. GGG 3 pts 25 dogs beat
9. HHH 3 pts 24 dogs beat
9. III 3 pts 21 dogs beat

The dogs with * would get the invite

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Thu Oct 25, 2012 8:52 pm

When you have five positions counting twenty dogs, then what? It's still cherry picking because you are making up the tiebreakers as you go along.

http://ngspa.org/DOY/2011-doy.pdf

ElhewPointer · Post by **ElhewPointer** » Thu Oct 25, 2012 8:55 pm

Cajun Casey wrote:When you have five positions counting twenty dogs, then what? It's still cherry picking because you are making up the tiebreakers as you go along.

http://ngspa.org/DOY/2011-doy.pdf

How can you not understand this?

In the DOY that you posted there are 11 dogs with 3 pts.

It would then go to dogs beaten, then if for some reason there is a tie with dogs broken then it would go to a Ch over a RU Ch.

OPEN SHOOTING DOG
*1. Ike’s Eshod Delight – 7 pts
Owner: Ed & Trudy Moody
Handler: Ray Dohse

*1. Chicoree’s Jackie v Nuke – 7 pts
Owner: Fred Ryan
Handler: Dan DiMambro

*2. Happy Hollow’s Uodibar Tex – 5 pts
Owner: David Quindt
Handler: Dennis Brath

*2. Uodibar’s Blue Gold – 5 pts
Owner: David & Hayley Killam
Handler: Eldon Hongo

*2. Caden’s Bandit – 5 pts
Owner: Bill Larson
Handler: Dennis Brath

*2. BDK’s Chloe’s Jax of all Trades – 5 pts
Owner: Brooks Carmichael
Handler: Keith Gulledge

*2. Prairie Wind’s Fast Forward – 5 pts
Owner: Keith & Bobbi Richardson
Handler: Dennis Brath

*2. Uodibar’s Sidewinder – 5 pts
Owner: David & Hayley Killam
Handler: Eldon Hongo

*3. Hill’s Hard Hitting Jazz Time – 4 pts
Owner: Mark Hill
Handler: Chris Goegan

*4. Hershey’s Mini Kiss – 3 pts BEAT 34 DOGS
Owner: Al Luther
Handler: David King

*4. Outbak’s Jade – 3 pts BEAT 34 DOGS
Owner: Elizabeth Moore
Handler: Rich Barber

*4. Caden’s Bode On The Runn – 3 pts BEAT 30 DOGS
Owner: Todd Hetherington
Handler: Dennis Brath

*4. Uodibar’s Smart Albert – 3 pts BEAT 28 DOGS(WON THE HAWKEYE)
Owner: David & Hayley Killam
Handler: Eldon Hongo

4. Timberland’s Savannah Chip – 3 pts BEAT 28 DOGS(RU IN PHEASANT)
Owner: Don Kidd
Handler: Pat Waresk

4. Tonelli’s Sky High – 3 pts BEAT 25 DOGS
Owner: Kathleen Boyd
Handler: Randy Berry

4. H’s Hedge Rise Ignited – 3 pts
Owner: Harlen Higgenbothem
Handler: Keith Gulledge

4. DuLac’s Mighty Manfred – 3 pts
Owner/Handler: Tom Tubergen

4. HBV’s Cheap trick – 3 pts
Owner/Handler: Doug Favor

4. Monkeyshine’s Solo – 3 pts
Owner: Mario DiMambro
Handler: Dan DiMambro

4. BDK’s Break The Bank – 3 pts
Owner: Keith & Bobbi Richardson
Handler: Dennis Brath

Dog with a * would get in. THIS IS JUST AN EXAMPLE. I DO NOT KNOW HOW MANY DOGS EACH OF THESE DOGS BEAT OR WHAT TRIALS THEY WON, THIS IS JUST AN EXAMPLE TO HELP EXPLAIN.