GSP Field Trialers Question

[Cajun Casey]

Why isn't it on the Field's calendar?

[ElhewPointer]

Why isn't it on the Field's calendar?

Because it doesn't have to be yet. Would you like to pay for it? Also, if you have any more great questions you are more than welcome to PM me. Thanks for all of your wonderful thoughts. With all this in depth thinking I would assume you will be coming to the trial?.?.

[Cajun Casey]

Why isn't it on the Field's calendar?

Because it doesn't have to be yet. Would you like to pay for it? Also, if you have any more great questions you are more than welcome to PM me. Thanks for all of your wonderful thoughts. With all this in depth thinking I would assume you will be coming to the trial?.?.

No, no interest in coming to it. I try not to venture north during possible bad road conditions and I really have no interest in breed restricted trials. Just morbidly curious about how this is the best trial available.

[DGFavor]

When you have five positions counting twenty dogs, then what? It's still cherry picking because you are making up the tiebreakers as you go along.

http://ngspa.org/DOY/2011-doy.pdf

How can you not understand this?

In the DOY that you posted there are 11 dogs with 3 pts.

It would then go to dogs beaten, then if for some reason there is a tie with dogs broken then it would go to a Ch over a RU Ch.


OPEN SHOOTING DOG
*1. Ike’s Eshod Delight – 7 pts
Owner: Ed & Trudy Moody
Handler: Ray Dohse

*1. Chicoree’s Jackie v Nuke – 7 pts
Owner: Fred Ryan
Handler: Dan DiMambro

*2. Happy Hollow’s Uodibar Tex – 5 pts
Owner: David Quindt
Handler: Dennis Brath

*2. Uodibar’s Blue Gold – 5 pts
Owner: David & Hayley Killam
Handler: Eldon Hongo

*2. Caden’s Bandit – 5 pts
Owner: Bill Larson
Handler: Dennis Brath

*2. BDK’s Chloe’s Jax of all Trades – 5 pts
Owner: Brooks Carmichael
Handler: Keith Gulledge

*2. Prairie Wind’s Fast Forward – 5 pts
Owner: Keith & Bobbi Richardson
Handler: Dennis Brath

*2. Uodibar’s Sidewinder – 5 pts
Owner: David & Hayley Killam
Handler: Eldon Hongo

*3. Hill’s Hard Hitting Jazz Time – 4 pts
Owner: Mark Hill
Handler: Chris Goegan

*4. Hershey’s Mini Kiss – 3 pts BEAT 34 DOGS
Owner: Al Luther
Handler: David King

*4. Outbak’s Jade – 3 pts BEAT 34 DOGS
Owner: Elizabeth Moore
Handler: Rich Barber

*4. Caden’s Bode On The Runn – 3 pts BEAT 30 DOGS
Owner: Todd Hetherington
Handler: Dennis Brath

*4. Uodibar’s Smart Albert – 3 pts BEAT 28 DOGS(WON THE HAWKEYE)
Owner: David & Hayley Killam
Handler: Eldon Hongo

4. Timberland’s Savannah Chip – 3 pts BEAT 28 DOGS(RU IN PHEASANT)
Owner: Don Kidd
Handler: Pat Waresk

4. Tonelli’s Sky High – 3 pts BEAT 25 DOGS
Owner: Kathleen Boyd
Handler: Randy Berry

4. H’s Hedge Rise Ignited – 3 pts
Owner: Harlen Higgenbothem
Handler: Keith Gulledge

4. DuLac’s Mighty Manfred – 3 pts
Owner/Handler: Tom Tubergen

4. HBV’s Cheap trick – 3 pts
Owner/Handler: Doug Favor

4. Monkeyshine’s Solo – 3 pts
Owner: Mario DiMambro
Handler: Dan DiMambro

4. BDK’s Break The Bank – 3 pts
Owner: Keith & Bobbi Richardson
Handler: Dennis Brath


Dog with a * would get in. THIS IS JUST AN EXAMPLE. I DO NOT KNOW HOW MANY DOGS EACH OF THESE DOGS BEAT OR WHAT TRIALS THEY WON, THIS IS JUST AN EXAMPLE TO HELP EXPLAIN.

And in the example, which I think is the actual 2011 standings, if for some reason three of those top 12 invited declined their invitation, it goes down the standings until 'ol Doc Favor and Trixie get called up from the bush leagues and we'd be there! Clear to me! It ain't rocket surgery!! You want your dog in, your dog has to score points and beat dogs - fair and simple.

[ezzy333]

Sounds like a fair for all plan to me.
Ezzy

[nikegundog]

I would think thier would be a better time for this event, December in Iowa or just south of the border can be bitter cold at that time with last year being an exception. I would think you may want better weather conditions for such an event if you want people to come out and support it. Don't get me wrong I like it only being a couple hrs from me but don't want to shovel snow on the way either. Who is running this event and who is all on the committee, I had heard about this awhile ago but nothing ever came about.

This post struck me as funny, we can get 10,000 people to show up for an ice fishing contest in Brainard MN (in January), yet it is to bitterly cold to host this event 500 miles South.

[Vision]

Hmmm, doable.... http://mapq.st/TDMYrg

Doug you better pack an extra windshield for this run, could be treacherous in December.

[Vision]

[quote="Hunter"
This post struck me as funny, we can get 10,000 people to show up for an ice fishing contest in Brainard MN (in January), yet it is to bitterly cold to host this event 500 miles South.

What else are you going to do in Minnesota in January? You don't have chukars, or quail to hunt.

[nikegundog]

[quote="Hunter"
This post struck me as funny, we can get 10,000 people to show up for an ice fishing contest in Brainard MN (in January), yet it is to bitterly cold to host this event 500 miles South.

What else are you going to do in Minnesota in January? You don't have chukars, or quail to hunt.

Your right that's about all there is to do in MN in January, however we have no problem spending a couple months fishing.

[Brooks Carmichael]

Just wondering what the GSP people's opinion is on a question I have.

Do you put more of an emphisis on winning the AKC AA National at Eureka or the NGSPA AA National at Booneville?
Would you rather win a FC in AKC or a Championship in the NGSPA?
Reasons?

Thanks.

I have run at both Eureka and Booneville. They are both hour long stakes but completely different type of grounds. The judges have experience in judging and running both AF and AKC championships. I like them both. Right now the most prestigeous is the one at Eureka. The reason for that is the grounds, the number of quality dogs run in it. I have found the same dogs run at both Booneville and Eureka. About twice as many dogs run at Eureka as Booneville. NGSPA Championship was considered the ultimate but lately has not been. Mostly, I think and others do to, it is because of the grounds and the number of dogs entered. The facilities are some of the best at Booneville and far better then the one at Eureka.

When it comes to AKC, FC or NGSPA championship a person is trying to compare apples and oranges in my opinion. It takes 10 points to become a field champion in which a dog must have a 3 point major and of the ten points, 4 points which must be in retrieving . As far as NGSPA championships goes, I think personally it is the ulitimate accomplishment to win one of these championships. The dog must run a full hour and not a half hour as in the AKC weekend trials. A dog must qualify in dual sanctioned trial to qualify to run in a championship. Which means the AKC trial must also be sanctioned by NGSPA. NGSPA runs under rules established by American Field.

There are only two wild bird trials right now under NGSPA. The Prairie Chicken championship in Nebraska and the Sharptail in Montana. To win either is quite an accomplishment. And some consider them more prestigeous then winning either the NGSPA or GSPCA national championships. I not hear to say one way or another. But, winning either one of these incredible in itself.

In last note to get a AKC Field Championship or win a NGSPA championship is quite an accomplishment. I like to win and put titles on my dogs like anybody else but I also go there to have fun and see all the great dogs run.

[gspguy]

Do you put more of an emphisis on winning the AKC AA National at Eureka or the NGSPA AA National at Booneville?

Yes.

I'd take any CH/FC I could get. They are all great accomplishments. And the NFC for AKC or NGSPA is a matter is tastes or preferences with what you like. I'd take either and walk away smiling.

[Brooks Carmichael]

I hope this does not happen. But, here is something, that may not have been thought of. What if you do not get the 12 dogs needed to run this championship. Is there a contingency plan? Under NGSPA rules you must have 12 dogs to run a shooting dog championship. Just food for thought.

[Middlecreek]

I hope this does not happen. But, here is something, that may not have been thought of. What if you do not get the 12 dogs needed to run this championship. Is there a contingency plan? Under NGSPA rules you must have 12 dogs to run a shooting dog championship. Just food for thought.

I would guess there won't be any to turn down the invite... if so, I'll bring as many as needed for a shot at the 5k prize money, ross young protrait of the winner, and whatever else goes to the winner...

[Hunter]

How could you bring as many as needed for the prize, I thought you had to be invited or the next dog with the highest points. Good point Brooks and congrats on the AA championship in Eureka, your probably wishing your dog could take a shot at the $5000 purse. Sometimes I think people forget how hard it is to achieve a FC or win any AKC stake on a weekend with 40 plus dogs in a stake not to mention the Nationals in Eureka with that many dogs. Allot of emphasis is put on the AF trials and hr stakes but like you said the number of dogs running are far less than competing in an AKC event. Both are major acomplishments and I dont know if one out weighs the other. I dont think you would trade your AA title this year in Eureka for an NGSPA championship with half the dogs and you have won both this year alone by winning in Eureka and the NGSPA Great Plains championship last spring. For the most part the dogs compete on both venues and allot of times the numbers are far less for an NGSP championship event not because the dogs arnt good enough to run the hr but yet the entries are usually three times higher for just one stake and it cuts down on the numbers.

[hi-tailyn]

I think this is a great idea for a championship. If I had a dog in it I would be there.

With that said, If the few owners can't afford by themselves, to foot the bill for their pro to drive cross country and leave their training for a week or so, it will be tough. The pro will loose as much in lost training fees as they could hope to win at the trial.

The time of year, there could very easily be a foot of snow on the grounds.

If a individual had a dog in the hunt, I could see it easier for them to be there.

I know several of the pro's have sent some of these Top 12 dogs home with their owners for the winter break.

It may be the few, that have deeper pockets that can afford to have their pro attend this prestigious event.

You just haft to make the commitment.

[Tejas]

I like it. Doc, let's make a pact to meet up there in the next two or three years.

[trueblu]

I have a couple of points/opinions. If you consider the specific dogs and handlers who will qualify, only about three handlers have multiple dogs that would qualify at this point-Hongo, Gulledge, Brath. Each of them is from 6 to 11 hours away. What about the others who are 20 hours away? Where the gigantic number of big money folks have always existed in the Pointer world, there are far far fewer in shorthairs. For a pro with one dog qualified to drive from California, the owner would foot the bill for the travel, entry, etc. Many of them flat wouldn't go for it.

I have owned shorthairs for nearly 50 years and have trialed for 15. I truly doubt that there are three shorthairs who could go three hours at SD range in the country. I've heard the ridiculous argument that "my dog hunts hard all day". Not at trial speed for even an hour, muchless for three hours. I think most shorthairs hearts would explode. Sorry, just a sidenote.

Finally, when you ask if a Field Champion title, Region or Species Championship, NGSPA at Booneville, or GSPCA at Eureka means more. Ask 10 people and you'll get 8 different answers. I have owned or bred 5 or 6 dogs with region AA and species AA wins, 4 field champions, several national placements in GSPCA, futurity placements, etc. Gottal say, not one of them stands out more than the others. I am just as excited to finish a FC as I am for an owner to win the Quail AA. When all is said and done, the most pride I have had was finishing my own two FCs, one AFC, and seeing my third finish as a FC last year, knowing that I had done all or quite a bit of the work on the dogs. Knowing you've done the work or put the title on the dog means more to me than writing a check and being sent a ribbon.

As your orginal question asked-FC or CH? A dog can have one good day or can get favorable judging and become an AF Champion. It takes far more, minimum of usually 3 wins to become a FC. Usually the dog proves his worth in puppy, then derby, then in usually 2 broke stakes. If the dog was a nice dog from the jump, ran all over the country and found birds as a derby, was broke, came out of that with style, speed, broke with a happy demeanor, wins some broke stakes, personally I believe that means more to the breed in the long run. So, that dogs FC means more to me.

But, I think your idea is a great one overall!! IF you can get the support. That may be the issue.

[DGFavor]

I would think an owner might just run back/run out/run down/run over and handle their own dog for a deal like that if their trainer couldn't make it - or make arrangements with someone that is going for a one time deal...I would anyway.

Let me know if the invitations get deep/desperate enough that I gotta get one of my hounds off the bench and into the game!! I know you want a quality event but ya' gotta start somewhere and I'm used to being field filler!!

A dog can have one good day or can get favorable judging and become an AF Champion.

IMO, the pressure to win an hour championship(s) really ramps up after the dog wins one. Sort of becomes a "game" of the latest win justifying or adding testament to the previous win(s)!! The 2nd win adds credence to the first...the 3rd gives support to the first two...etc. Gawd forbid a dog ends it's career with "only" one championship placement - had to have been a fluke!!

But, I think your idea is a great one overall!! IF you can get the support. That may be the issue.

That was the hurdle I ran into in discussions about this very type event in the past. As I mentioned, I felt the invites might need to extend thru the Open and Am AA and SD ranks to make up a field of 12 and use the judging standard of simply the best application to the course(s) provided since that's really what bird dogs are supposed to do anyway - not box them into performing "AA" or "SD".

Put me in the game coach!! :

[jimbo&rooster]

So, maybe Im slow.... But, your talking about running this Dec. 1-2 here in about 3weeks?

Might be worth a road trip.
Jim

[ElhewPointer]

Sorry, as I haven't been on the site for a while. Some great questions/comments. Here are a few things I want to throw out there. Probably not going to answer all the questions, but a few of them anyway.

It is the dog that is qualified, not the pro. If the pro doesn't want to be part of it, that is there choice. This isn't for them anyway. It is for the dogs and to recognize the owners of these great dogs.

As far as cost goes, yes it is an expensive entry fee for the GSP circuit. $250 is the entry. That being said, there are only 12 dogs in this stake and someone will come home with $5,000 and a Ross Young portrait of your dog. Not to mention all the time that the committee has taken to get sponsorships where there will be probably more than $250 in swag that each dog will receive.

The distance can be a problem, but the purpose of this trial isn't to put anyone in a bad spot, rather to make this such a prestige trial, that you'd do anything to get into it. The top 12 Shooting Dogs in the country battling it out for three days.

I agree, most dogs can't handle 3 hrs, no matter the breed but the format isn't three hours all at one time. It is an hr on day one, an hr on day two, and if the dog makes the finals, 1 1/2 hrs on day three. It will push the dogs to the limit. But isn't that what trialing is all about? When looking for a pup, personally, I would love to have the sire or dam have won this trial. It takes heart, guts, stamina to win a trial like this. The "luck" gets taken out of this format.

We are waiting for the Pheasant Ch. to finish to have the final 12 dogs as that trial will change things. Thank you for all who want this to really take off. There has been a lot of time spent on this and we really feel this will be the absolute first class event. We would love for all of you to make it to MO to watch. Bring your Sunday's best for each evening. We have social events each night. Thanks again.

[trueblu]

'Course Elhew then you get the same old argument, "well, you only beat 11 other dogs, big deal". There's always someone to throw water on the fire.

Still, nowadays, the economy has slowed many folks trialing down, caused them to have to work longer hours, make less money/profits, etc. Where it has always been tough for the average trialer to make the week long plus trip to Eureka then turn around and do nearly the same thing to Booneville, compounded by the fact that the entry isn't much of a factor, it's the diesel, motels, food, etc. A week at Eureka ends up costing many $2000-3000 when all is said and done. Where you will get the few who own half of Texas or half of Wyoming, the average trialer, the person who makes a pauper's income, say $100k, is gonna be hard pressed to do it all. A brand new event isn't going to have much "prestige" until many of truly the best dogs compete, the new breed of Clown, Billy, Rusty, etc. begin winning the thing, and after a few years, when the name pros attend each year, etc. Then, you'll have an event that has true prestige. It'll be the first 5 years, keeping it going, that will be the chore.

Like was said, shoot, I'd like to have a pup by a shorthair that won a 3 hour event!!

[Hunter]

I thought I read on the NGSPA website that the 3rd and final day the dogs called back to the finals, the brace would not exceed 1 hr but you stated a couple time the third day it is 1 1/2 hrs for those called back. I also see that you have 7 dogs committed so far 3 of witch are owned by the same person and I believe two by another, how many total invites were sent out just to get the twelve dogs. I didnt notice the number 1 dog on that list thou that won in Boonville but I think he was sent home with his owner for the winter. Are you inviting more than 12 dogs incase weather this time of year keeps some from making it here to the midwest, might be a good idea.

[hi-tailyn]

Hearing through a few of the grapevines, a few things about this trial.

They are looking to get 14 dogs on the list. Don't know if that is to solve any last minute dropouts from weather etc.

The first and second day all dogs will run the entire hour. No pick ups for mistakes or infractions on birds and such. Even do not haft to show at time. :roll: :roll:

I guess they want the dog with the endurance to still be able to make the final day, even though it may of had a bird infraction. :roll:

Third day is when all is to be perfect and run at the end.

Is this basically how it will be run?

Is this how a typical Invitation, Endurance Championship is run?

[Brooks Carmichael]

Hearing through a few of the grapevines, a few things about this trial.

They are looking to get 14 dogs on the list. Don't know if that is to solve any last minute dropouts from weather etc.

The first and second day all dogs will run the entire hour. No pick ups for mistakes or infractions on birds and such. Even do not haft to show at time. :roll: :roll:

I guess they want the dog with the endurance to still be able to make the final day, even though it may of had a bird infraction. :roll:

Third day is when all is to be perfect and run at the end.

Is this basically how it will be run?

Is this how a typical Invitation, Endurance Championship is run?

My understanding when it was explained to the NGSPA board. They would reverse the order of how the dogs were run the first day. The dogs that ran first on the first day would run last on second day and so on. Only the best dogs would be brought back for the third day. That will be up to the judges. It still would be run under NGSPA standards. It is very possible but highly unlikely there would be no champion. Maybe Vegas can explain what is going to happen.

[DGFavor]

This is not a new format and not new rules - been happening for a long time just never stubtail specific like this one. The "premium" for the 32nd running of the Nat'l Amateur Invitational Championship is in this weeks Field...no GSP's invited!! Not re-inventing the wheel by any means, just introducing the wheel to a new crowd.

Yah, the rules are different from the usual hour Ch's but I don't think I'd show up thinking I can still win with my dog running off or displaying a breech of manners.

Vagas - do you have any hard dates on this? I'm tempted to trek it back just to check it out, snap some photos.

[rockyridge kennels]

This is not a new format and not new rules - been happening for a long time just never stubtail specific like this one. The "premium" for the 32nd running of the Nat'l Amateur Invitational Championship is in this weeks Field...no GSP's invited!! Not re-inventing the wheel by any means, just introducing the wheel to a new crowd.

Yah, the rules are different from the usual hour Ch's but I don't think I'd show up thinking I can still win with my dog running off or displaying a breech of manners.

Vagas - do you have any hard dates on this? I'm tempted to trek it back just to check it out, snap some photos.

Go to the NGSPA web site, Details are up..

[Brooks Carmichael]

I will probably go over for a couple of days if the weather is good. I only live a 130 miles from the event. I definitely like to see the dogs run. I have watched most of these dogs run one time or another. It will great to see how they run under this format. I want to applaud Hayley for coming up with the idea and the work she has done to make it happen. Let us not forget Vegas for all the hard work he has put in. The NSGPA trustees when they approved this event as a championship they knew it was going to be difficult but had faith in Hayley when she spoke at the trustee meeting in June.

If I got it figured out the best dogs after two days will run on the third day for an 1 1/2 hours. So two braces can be run in the morning and 2 in the afternoon with a champion and runner up named after that. Vegas may enlighten us on this.

[rockyridge kennels]

I

If I got it figured out the best dogs after two days will run on the third day for an 1 1/2 hours. So two braces can be run in the morning and 2 in the afternoon with a champion and runner up named after that. Vegas may enlighten us on this.

Not according to the NGSPA web site.

[hi-tailyn]

Third day will Not be more than One Hour.

No Runner-up Champion will be named.

I might try and go watch also.

[Brooks Carmichael]

I

If I got it figured out the best dogs after two days will run on the third day for an 1 1/2 hours. So two braces can be run in the morning and 2 in the afternoon with a champion and runner up named after that. Vegas may enlighten us on this.

Not according to the NGSPA web site.

I guess, I need to read the fine print, missed that part. It was not what, I was told originally, my mistake.

[Hunter]

So let me get this straight according to HI-TALYN they will be looking for a dog of endurance the first two days and anything can happen but yet they wont be picked up as long as they make the hr run. And on the 3rd day they must be dead broke like any other akc or NGSPA trial to be considered a champion. Dam wish I was invited as I have one that would rim that place the first two days for the entire hr but just not broke for day three, maybe next year. I may have to come down and watch to see how it is ran just in case some day I have one in it. Look forward to seeing the other dogs committed on the NGSPA website here in the coming days. Someone also brought up earlier that if the pro cant make it then the owner should show up and run it, thats a good point except for the most part that same dog has been with that Pro for pretty much the whole year in training and at trials I dont think I would take a $250 chance to see if the dog would listen to me in a couple days that I had him back. Good luck to all, heading to SD friday with all our trial dogs for 5 full days of hunting.

[ElhewPointer]

Hearing through a few of the grapevines, a few things about this trial.

They are looking to get 14 dogs on the list. Don't know if that is to solve any last minute dropouts from weather etc.

The first and second day all dogs will run the entire hour. No pick ups for mistakes or infractions on birds and such. Even do not haft to show at time. :roll: :roll:

I guess they want the dog with the endurance to still be able to make the final day, even though it may of had a bird infraction. :roll:

Third day is when all is to be perfect and run at the end.

Is this basically how it will be run?

Is this how a typical Invitation, Endurance Championship is run?

The top 12 dogs get an invite. If a dog can't make it, or for some reason the owner doesn't want to run the dog or the "pro" doesn't want to run, then you move down the list to the 13th dog and so on.

The first day the dog runs the entire hour, if the dog makes an infraction, the dog will remain on the ground. But this is looked a severe breach and will be tough to make the call backs. On the second day, if the dog has made an infraction and there are clean dogs, the handler will usually pick up the dogs as they know the dog will not make the call back. The reason for not showing at time is, this stake is judged as an overall performance of the 3 days. Its not 3 seperate stakes. Therefore, there is no time until the end of the brace on day 3. The judges can call back 1 brace of dogs or 2 braces of dogs for day three.

On day three, the dogs need to run at least an hour. It doesn't need to be an hr and 1/2(I misspoke). Judges may call time as they wish after the hr mark. If they have what they need to name a champion, they can call time.

There is no Runner up named. Only a Champion.

One day one the dogs that run in the morning will run in the afternoon on day two. And visa versa.

Yes, there will be pros with multiple dogs and owners with multiple dogs. That is not a new concept. It happens. Last year for example, a new record in the Open SD Invitational was set. Mike Tracy(handler) had 6 of the dogs in the trial. An amazing feat. He was in every brace the first two days.

As far as the avg joe having a dog in it. It sure does happen. I was lucky enough to get an Invite and it was an amazing feeling. I didn't win the trial, heck didn't even make the call back. But I knew that my dog was invited and competed in what many believe the ultimate in the SD field trials. What an honor!!! I'd do anything to get back. I may never but i'll keep trying.

I have no personal interest in this trial. I don't own a GSP, maybe someday, but no intentions. I proposed this idea to Hayley a few years ago while at a trial and it has taken off. My only interest is this. I love this sport!!! I don't care about which breed. A great dog is a great dog. And after this trial does become prestigious, if by helping make this trial happen if one "avg joe" gets the feeling that I got a few years ago, when I found out I had a dog running in the best field trial in the SD world. I'll have accomplished my goal. If I could bottle that feeling up and sell it, id be rich. Its the best of the best. The ultimate. I literally have goose bumps right now thinking about it. If one person gets that feeling, thats all I want.

I invite you all to come watch this event. It will be on Smith Farms Field trial grounds near Gentry, MO. It will be held the weekend of the 7th of Dec. That Friday and Sat. will be premlins and Sunday is the finals. Come join us. I hope to tell some young trialer that is talking bird dogs some 30 yrs down the road, that I watched the very first GSP Invitational. What an opportunity.

[Brooks Carmichael]

I want to thank Vegas for proposing this to Hayley Killiam and her running with it. They both need to be congratulated for the work they have done to make this happen.

[Jager]

We have been invited and are going. Hi Point's Nuke Powered Tank (aka Duke). He is currently ranked 3rd. Yes, it will be a long haul out & back...as was mentioned, but it could be a once in a life time opportunity. (We are an "average Joe" that has been previously mentioned, ) We are honored just to be invited, no matter what the outcome. Duke has been a wonderful dog for us and has had quite a bit of success. He had his AFC & FC titles in 3 consecutive trial seasons. He's a 2x CH and a 1x RU National Shooting Dog CH at the All Breed. Not bad for a dog that wasn't "supposed" to make it in the field trialing world. We bought him at 18 months old because it was thought he was going to "simply" be a hunting dog. So we hunted him as a guide dog on a shooting preserve for a year prior to entering him in his first ever field trial at around age 3. He was never in a puppy or derby stake. He has a heart for the sport and truly enjoys it. And when he's home...he's a house dog to boot! We are very excited & humbled to just be invited. We have truly been Blessed!

[rockyridge kennels]

I believe the correct term is Vice Versa not "Visa Versa"

Unless you are talking about a credit card????

Just figured an english major like you would know that.. :roll:

[ElhewPointer]

We have been invited and are going. Hi Point's Nuke Powered Tank (aka Duke). He is currently ranked 3rd. Yes, it will be a long haul out & back...as was mentioned, but it could be a once in a life time opportunity. (We are an "average Joe" that has been previously mentioned, ) We are honored just to be invited, no matter what the outcome. Duke has been a wonderful dog for us and has had quite a bit of success. He had his AFC & FC titles in 3 consecutive trial seasons. He's a 2x CH and a 1x RU National Shooting Dog CH at the All Breed. Not bad for a dog that wasn't "supposed" to make it in the field trialing world. We bought him at 18 months old because it was thought he was going to "simply" be a hunting dog. So we hunted him as a guide dog on a shooting preserve for a year prior to entering him in his first ever field trial at around age 3. He was never in a puppy or derby stake. He has a heart for the sport and truly enjoys it. And when he's home...he's a house dog to boot! We are very excited & humbled to just be invited. We have truly been Blessed!

That is GREAT!!!!! Can't wait to meet you and Duke. Congrats and see you soon.

[ACooper]

This thread is odd to me, some folks are trying to put together a prestigious trail with hopes to grow it beyond shooting dogs, and half or more posts on this thread are negative or condescending or rebutting those negative and condescending posts, what gives? Someone tries something new and the peanut gallery throws stones from the sidelines, typical of the "new" America I guess.

[rinker]

"Someone tries something new and the peanut gallery throws stones from the sidelines, typical of the "new" America I guess."

This isn't new at all it is just a little more out in the open because they can now sit behind a key board and do it anonymously.

I do not have a shorthair, and have no personal interest in the trial, but it sounds to me like several people have put a lot of work in to this and they should be thanked.

[ElhewPointer]

"Someone tries something new and the peanut gallery throws stones from the sidelines, typical of the "new" America I guess."

This isn't new at all it is just a little more out in the open because they can now sit behind a key board and do it anonymously.

I do not have a shorthair, and have no personal interest in the trial, but it sounds to me like several people have put a lot of work in to this and they should be thanked.

Im not anonymous at all.

[rinker]

Im not anonymous at all

I may have read this wrong but you seem to be the target, not the stone thrower. I was actually defending you. I was also really speaking in general, not just about this thread.

[ElhewPointer]

Oh I see. Sorry I read it wrong.

[Hunter]

GSP Field Trialers Question

Postby ElhewPointer » Wed Oct 24, 2012 9:05 am
Just wondering what the GSP people's opinion is on a question I have.

Do you put more of an emphisis on winning the AKC AA National at Eureka or the NGSPA AA National at Booneville?
Would you rather win a FC in AKC or a Championship in the NGSPA?
Reasons.

Re: GSP Field Trialers Question

Postby ElhewPointer » Thu Oct 25, 2012 8:05 am
The reason I ask is because I've been asked to be a part of a comittee to bring, in my opionion, the best field trial to the NGSPA.


I dont think that anyone has a problem with this invitational and everyone enjoys a good trial and great dogs, I think allot of people were turned off by the above question where it is basically pitting AKC vs NGSPA and basically stating one is better than the other so therefor you have better dogs in one and not the other. The question like someone stated is loaded when its trying to promote the invitational. For the most part all the good dogs competing on the circuit are competing in both AKC and NGSPA sanctioned events all over the country, and the same dog that wins in an AKC event in Lincoln can win an NGSPA event in Oklahoma. To put more emphasis on one more than the other, well as an old Football coach I look at it like this, I dont put more emphasis on a game three weeks away when I have a game next week to prepare for, so basically my emphasis is on the next trial wether it be AKC or NGSPA event, Im going to try to win that one and it will prepare us for the next one. I have had shorthairs for over twenty years and have ran and judged in both venues accross the country and enjoy them both as a handler, judge and spectator, your always looking for that dog that stands out and makes you sit tall in your saddle to watch, and believe me there are just as many times I sat up in the saddle watching a dog at a AKC event as I have at a NGSPA event ( some of witch are your current commitments). The best dog no matter the venue will stand out weather it be on the Westphfall ranch in Kansas, the White mts in Az or Branched OAk in Lincoln. The only issue I ever had with this was the location and keep in mind I only live a short distance from the grounds and its great for me, but for such a prestigous event I thought it would be better farther south to take away the chances of bad weather in December. If you want people to come out and support it and ride they are more apt to do so if it in the 40s or 50s than in the teens like it could be this time of year. Who knows I could be wrong and it is warm out like last year, heck I hope it is as I can train rather than shovel snow. Who knows maybe someday I will get the chance to run in this event, but right now my emphasis is on the next trial and for me and my dogs thats the Quail in January in Oklahoma, but first a little training in SD the next 5 days on wild pheasants. Good luck to all that make it and hopefully if the weather is decent I can make it down to watch.

[ElhewPointer]

GSP Field Trialers Question

Postby ElhewPointer » Wed Oct 24, 2012 9:05 am
Just wondering what the GSP people's opinion is on a question I have.

Do you put more of an emphisis on winning the AKC AA National at Eureka or the NGSPA AA National at Booneville?
Would you rather win a FC in AKC or a Championship in the NGSPA?
Reasons.

Re: GSP Field Trialers Question

Postby ElhewPointer » Thu Oct 25, 2012 8:05 am
The reason I ask is because I've been asked to be a part of a comittee to bring, in my opionion, the best field trial to the NGSPA.


I dont think that anyone has a problem with this invitational and everyone enjoys a good trial and great dogs, I think allot of people were turned off by the above question where it is basically pitting AKC vs NGSPA and basically stating one is better than the other so therefor you have better dogs in one and not the other. The question like someone stated is loaded when its trying to promote the invitational. For the most part all the good dogs competing on the circuit are competing in both AKC and NGSPA sanctioned events all over the country, and the same dog that wins in an AKC event in Lincoln can win an NGSPA event in Oklahoma. To put more emphasis on one more than the other, well as an old Football coach I look at it like this, I dont put more emphasis on a game three weeks away when I have a game next week to prepare for, so basically my emphasis is on the next trial wether it be AKC or NGSPA event, Im going to try to win that one and it will prepare us for the next one. I have had shorthairs for over twenty years and have ran and judged in both venues accross the country and enjoy them both as a handler, judge and spectator, your always looking for that dog that stands out and makes you sit tall in your saddle to watch, and believe me there are just as many times I sat up in the saddle watching a dog at a AKC event as I have at a NGSPA event ( some of witch are your current commitments). The best dog no matter the venue will stand out weather it be on the Westphfall ranch in Kansas, the White mts in Az or Branched OAk in Lincoln. The only issue I ever had with this was the location and keep in mind I only live a short distance from the grounds and its great for me, but for such a prestigous event I thought it would be better farther south to take away the chances of bad weather in December. If you want people to come out and support it and ride they are more apt to do so if it in the 40s or 50s than in the teens like it could be this time of year. Who knows I could be wrong and it is warm out like last year, heck I hope it is as I can train rather than shovel snow. Who knows maybe someday I will get the chance to run in this event, but right now my emphasis is on the next trial and for me and my dogs thats the Quail in January in Oklahoma, but first a little training in SD the next 5 days on wild pheasants. Good luck to all that make it and hopefully if the weather is decent I can make it down to watch.

The origanal question was to raise interest not pitting anything against one another, sorry about that. As far as the the trial goes. We can't please you all.

[Cajun Casey]

Logistically, NGSPA is the only organization under which you could run this trial as formatted. If the participants are happy, that's great and good luck to all of them, but it's not the be all, end all of trials. PS, you have a typo on your premium.

[Neil]

I have attended a number of the invitational, reporting the SD twice. I know of no better test of a dog. There are no fillers, no one hoping for the run of their lives, no fluke wins. Just great dogs having the opportunity to show what they can do.

I never understand those that think it is cool to be an jerk. I just skip their negative posts, they are easy to ignore.

Vegas should be celebrated, not sniped.

Neil

[hi-tailyn]

I think that this is a Different venue, one that most GSP'ers are not used to.

Not that it is any better or worse than normal trial.

We are not used to the endurance type of format of running 3 days in a row. What is allowed and what is expected of the dogs.

A great learning experience for all.

I look forward to the trial and the outcome.

To see how some of our top dogs can handle 3 days of running.

Do we have it or not.

Long, Long range forecast on AccuWeather calls for 16 at night and 33 for high that weekend at Gentry, MO. No Snow forecasted as of yet.

Best of Luck to All.

[Brooks Carmichael]

I went to the list at the NGSPA website of those invited and I see that Harlan Higgenbottom has decided to enter his dog Aggie. Aggie won the NGSPA NSD champinship. So, now we have the top dogs entered which is great, now let us hope the weather co-operates. This is going to be great championship.

[hi-tailyn]

Keith and Robbi have two going, why are they not handling their dogs?
Mark W. is handling his own dog and Brian Long is handling Aggie.
Just curious.

[DGFavor]

http://www.thefieldtrialer.com/forum/vi ... =14&t=3373- Nat'l Am. Shooting Dog Invitational in progress. I believe this trial rotates around the country to different venues...would probably never come out here west of the divide but be cool to have 'em out on our Reg. 9 SD grounds. If this GSP invitational takes off to include other stakes (ASD, AA) I'm voting for the AA to be on some big western wild bird grounds and would be glad to take the lead on it!

[hi-tailyn]

http://www.thefieldtrialer.com/forum/vi ... =14&t=3373- Nat'l Am. Shooting Dog Invitational in progress. I believe this trial rotates around the country to different venues...would probably never come out here west of the divide but be cool to have 'em out on our Reg. 9 SD grounds. If this GSP invitational takes off to include other stakes (ASD, AA) I'm voting for the AA to be on some big western wild bird grounds and would be glad to take the lead on it!

It would be great if this one takes off and starts more for the Amateur, and All Age.

Looking at the running order from the mentioned trial, and what a friend brought up, is the dog that runs in the 6th brace of day one is in the first brace of Day 2. Then the dog in brace 1 of day 1 is in the last brace of day 2. Does not seem fair for the dogs that run at end of day 1 to only 12-14 hours haft to run the hour again while the others get 20 hours of rest.

Why is it set up like this? Why not random draw for both days. Or at least random draw the same group for morning and afternoon braces. Don't really have a great idea, except to to a total random draw for both days to make it fair to all dogs.