AKC - Grrr!!!

[Montana]

AKC is really starting to tick me off.... I have an occassional litter of pups. I give the AKC registration application to people getting pups, of course. Some people register their dogs, but many choose not to. AKC routinely e-mails me, sends me stuff in the mail, etc. basically harrassing me to get the people who haven't registered their dogs to do so. Now I see that in the registration packet they send when I register a litter they have the form for recording who the pups go to that they require I keep for 5 years and have instructed me to fax them a copy of... I won't do it. I don't want them harrassing people I place pups with. If people do not want to register their pups, that's their business. It wasn't all that many years ago when it was $8.00 to register a dog with AKC. They now want $30.00.

Several years back I was given a beautiful Chesapeake Bay Retriever. The dog had his JH title and the guy wanted to get his MH, but the dog was hit by a car and had a bad limp.... He had his OFA certification, CERF, etc. so I took him to use as a stud dog and to hunt lightly. He transferred ownership to me and I sent the form into AKC. A couple months went by and I hadn't heard anything from them, so I called. They had lost the registration certificate I'd sent in to transfer ownership. I had made a copy before I sent it, but they wouldn't accept that. They said the original owner had to apply for a duplicate (more money for them) and then I'd have to get that from him and sent it in. In the meantime the guy had moved out of state and I couldn't locate him. To make a long story short, I ended up placing the dog with some friends as a pet as I could never register him with AKC.

AKC is nothing but a big corporate money making machine....... and poorly run at that.

Ok...I'm done.

[RayGubernat]

I would do as they instructed. Sort of.

If they require you to fax them the form then do so. Fill out everything that pertains to your operation, and the individual puppies, but block out any information that pertains to the individual owners.

The AKC has no right to that information. That is proprietary business information. They sure did not pay for it and they most certainly will use that information in a way that will be a detriment to your business.

If they persist and insist, then you should put your own name and address down for each of the individual pups and fax them that. You are, in point of fact, the pup's first owner.

If they require you to keep the information on the pup's individual owners for five years, then you should do that also. Just do not share that information with them.

RayG

[JKP]

The AKC is in trouble. The clear signal was the registration of mutts so they can be part of non-breed specific events. I'm betting hamsters will be next.

[fuzznut]

Why is the fact that AKC needs to make money such a sore spot with people? Do they get so upset with Amercan Field? NAVHDA? NASTRA? How do you think the things that AKC does, gets done? Everyone wants to be compensated for their services, from the secretaries to the field reps to the guy that does the computer programing.

Without getting puppy owners to register puppies, the cost of everything else we do with AKC would skyrocket!

I used to be able to fill my gas tank for $10...

I don't believe you HAVE to send in the form with the new owners names. They hope you do, if it bugs you that much, don't do it. What do you think they are going to do, come to your house?

I'll argue that there are some at AKC that are making salaries that are outrageous....figureheads and not much more. The easiest way to not deal with them, is to not deal with them at all. Don't register your puppies, period.

Fuzz

[kensfishing]

You don't have to give them the new owners names or any info other than they require from you. But you have to keep all records of your breedings, dates, females to males and such. They can and will stop you from registering any other litters in the future if they want.

[ezzy333]

Why is the fact that AKC needs to make money such a sore spot with people? Do they get so upset with Amercan Field? NAVHDA? NASTRA? How do you think the things that AKC does, gets done? Everyone wants to be compensated for their services, from the secretaries to the field reps to the guy that does the computer programing.

Without getting puppy owners to register puppies, the cost of everything else we do with AKC would skyrocket!

I used to be able to fill my gas tank for $10...

I don't believe you HAVE to send in the form with the new owners names. They hope you do, if it bugs you that much, don't do it. What do you think they are going to do, come to your house?

I'll argue that there are some at AKC that are making salaries that are outrageous....figureheads and not much more. The easiest way to not deal with them, is to not deal with them at all. Don't register your puppies, period.

Fuzz

Right on!

Ezzy

[markj]

Last pup I got the breeder regedd pup with AKC and NAVHDA, papers were sent to my mail box. First time this happened, usually I get a app for a reg with the pup. I kinda thought this was neat and tied up the loose ends AKC is unhappy about.

Any business dont make a profit will go away cept for the govmint...

[Cajun Casey]

Okay, so go UKC and quit complaining. You want to sell their brand, you have to pay for it. I don't necessarily like supporting that Madison Avenue office, but I can't go strictly FDSB. so I pays my money and I gets my paper.

[Doc E]

AKC = It's all about the dollars. Any dog of any breed.

Go with UKC = good dogs & good people & Hunting breeds only.



.

[fuzznut]

Doc, you may want to rethink that UKC thing, like American Field, I believe that is a privately owned company. You think they are not in it to make a profit? You think Bernie runs AF because he is just a dog lover? Nice thought, but doubt his personal pockets are that deep.

It may feel good for us to think that there are dog groups out there only in it for the feel good reasons, truth is.. they gotta make money in order to offer us the things we want! Even our small clubs need to show a profit in order to offer more of the same next year!

You may hate it, at times I do too.. but it's reality.
Fuzz

[Ghosted3]

I did not read the all of the posts, just the opening post, but from what I read, isnt giving the info of buyers to AKC technically against the privacy act?

Corry

[wems2371]

Why would it matter that AKC registers other breeds beyond hunting dogs? And as a mutt owner too, I could care less that they give other mutt owners a chance to play doggie games, even if there is a cost associated with it. Not in love with AKC, but it's just a registry that recorded my dogs paperwork and provides some games for me to play, so I really don't have to be. As an aside, I can appreciate that they are a lobbying machine. They are surely saving their own future, but thereby also protecting my rights (and anyones who owns a dog) when it comes to the PETA type people of the world. I can't remember any time that NAVHDA sent me a notification or a petition about my possible rights being taken away as an owner/breeder or what they were trying to do about it.

As NAVHDA Secretary for my chapter, I got an email from NAVHDA, wanting all of our member's email addresses. I didn't like giving that info out and asked the chapter President what I should do. We compiled the information if it became a HAD TO comply situation, but it never did. It turned out to be a molehill, not a mountain.

[larue]

I have not had any real issues with akc,I love there online litter registration.
I have had two small bumps,once I did not receive the puppy papers,they sent new ones out right away,and I had a dna profile issue,with one pup which was resolved after further dna testing.
The pup in question had one marker from each parent that had changed,so they questioned the pup,but after retesting the original sample for 3 more markers,they agreed with the parentage.
The missing akc papers were found later at my brothers house,nice of him not to let me know.

[dan v]

Why would it matter that AKC registers other breeds beyond hunting dogs? And as a mutt owner too, I could care less that they give other mutt owners a chance to play doggie games, even if there is a cost associated with it. Not in love with AKC, but it's just a registry that recorded my dogs paperwork and provides some games for me to play, so I really don't have to be. As an aside, I can appreciate that they are a lobbying machine. They are surely saving their own future, but thereby also protecting my rights (and anyones who owns a dog) when it comes to the PETA type people of the world. I can't remember any time that NAVHDA sent me a notification or a petition about my possible rights being taken away as an owner/breeder or what they were trying to do about it.

As NAVHDA Secretary for my chapter, I got an email from NAVHDA, wanting all of our member's email addresses. I didn't like giving that info out and asked the chapter President what I should do. We compiled the information if it became a HAD TO comply situation, but it never did. It turned out to be a molehill, not a mountain.

+1

Yeah...let's run the AKC out of business....UKC, NAVHDA and the American Field can hitch their team to the wagon of fighting back these anti-breeding laws, PETA and other anti-pet ownership causes. Because they be so vocal in the past. /s

[gotpointers]

I don't share my buyers information with AKC and nothing has come of it yet. Also AKC gives me the option of limited and full registration. I price the pups according to the intentions of the buyer. FDSB should do this also. I have no regrets selling the pups for half the price. I think its a small sacrifice for preventing my lines to go on to try and be duplicated.

[crackerd]

I don't share my buyers information with AKC and nothing has come of it yet. Also AKC gives me the option of limited and full registration. I price the pups according to the intentions of the buyer. FDSB should do this also. I have no regrets selling the pups for half the price. I think its a small sacrifice for preventing my lines to go on to try and be duplicated.

That's an excellent response and makes the original post even more bemusing for its underlined juxtaposition:

Several years back I was given a beautiful Chesapeake Bay Retriever. The dog had his JH title and the guy wanted to get his MH, but the dog was hit by a car and had a bad limp.... He had his OFA certification, CERF, etc. so I took him to use as a stud dog and to hunt lightly. He transferred ownership to me and I sent the form into AKC. A couple months went by and I hadn't heard anything from them, so I called. They had lost the registration certificate I'd sent in to transfer ownership. I had made a copy before I sent it, but they wouldn't accept that. They said the original owner had to apply for a duplicate (more money for them) and then I'd have to get that from him and sent it in. In the meantime the guy had moved out of state and I couldn't locate him. To make a long story short, I ended up placing the dog with some friends as a pet as I could never register him with AKC.

AKC is nothing but a big corporate money making machine.......

MG

PS Poor 'Doc - AKC wouldn't let him play in its sandbox long enough, like at master hunt tests, so now he denounces it in favor of "UKC - great dogs, great people."

[Cajun Casey]

I mentioned UKC a bit sarcastically, considering the breeds owned by the OP. I know a lot of people who participate in UKC Conformation and Performance events and are happy with them. I think HRC titles are gaining prestige, too, and look forward to what develops from the UKC-NSTRA alliance. However, UKC has shown a worrisom trend for Draconian regulation of conformation similar to that of Great Britain's KC that caused the Crufts dust up this year.

[Montana]

Well, I tell you what..... I"m about ready to retire from breeding anyways. I've done it for a very long time. I'm not a big time breeder....a litter or two a year, but AKC just gravels my butt. They are too big and really don't give a dam about the dogs...it's all about the money. If they cared about the dogs (if any registry cared), there would be some requirements put in place before dogs could be bred, but that's a whole other topic. I just needed to vent.

[JKP]

Well, I tell you what..... I"m about ready to retire from breeding anyways. I've done it for a very long time. I'm not a big time breeder....a litter or two a year, but AKC just gravels my butt. They are too big and really don't give a dam about the dogs...it's all about the money. If they cared about the dogs (if any registry cared), there would be some requirements put in place before dogs could be bred, but that's a whole other topic. I just needed to vent

I agree but lots of folks thought that the AKC was about the breeds...they're not. That they leave that to the breed clubs and that just becomes a popularity/political contest as to what a breed becomes. In these clubs, everyone gets to decide what their interpretation is....what color, what activity, change the standard to taste, etc with the main priority being to get everyone involved with his "hobby". Breed clubs can write a standard but the AKC has to approve it...which means that being too strict won't pass. There can't be any breeding regs, performance requirements, mandatory health testing....in effect they take all autonomy away from the breed clubs...because everyone has to be able to participate...make "babies" so the kids can see the wonder of birth.

I admit they are the 800lb Gorilla in the room as far as lobbying...but we end up ignoring them for the service.

[ezzy333]

JKP,

What a warped position on AKC and what and how they do it. I am sure nothing any of us can say would make a bit of difference to you but I sure hat to see you try to take many of the newcomers down that same path. I think they as well as the rest of us deserve to look at what AKC does and be glad they do it. That doesn't mean anyone has to agree with everything they do or how they do it but luckily thaey are busy doing it instead of just sitting back and complaining while using their services.

Ezzy

[Vonzeppelinkennels]

Though I may not agree with everything AKC does tell me any registry,organisation,company,politician,etc,etc,etc,that everyone or even the majority does totally agree with.I for one would not reg with any registry that told me what I could or could not breed.That's why the USA is the GREATEST COUNTRY in the world because we are free to make our own choices & I don't like loosing any of our free choices!!! :roll:

[JKP]

What a warped position on AKC and what and how they do it. I am sure nothing any of us can say would make a bit of difference to you but I sure hat to see you try to take many of the newcomers down that same path. I think they as well as the rest of us deserve to look at what AKC does and be glad they do it. That doesn't mean anyone has to agree with everything they do or how they do it but luckily thaey are busy doing it instead of just sitting back and complaining while using their services.

Ezzy,
You're right..you won't change my mind. Think about the 70,000 Labs that will be bred this year and whether you think the AKC cares if that is in the interest of the breed. There is no responsibility that accompanies AKC registration....owners/breeders get to decide how much or little they assume. Just bureaucrats....who limit the reach of the breed clubs to protect the "rainbow coalition". You do realize that the separate breed clubs try to educate the judges as to the standards for the breeds???

[ezzy333]

What a warped position on AKC and what and how they do it. I am sure nothing any of us can say would make a bit of difference to you but I sure hat to see you try to take many of the newcomers down that same path. I think they as well as the rest of us deserve to look at what AKC does and be glad they do it. That doesn't mean anyone has to agree with everything they do or how they do it but luckily thaey are busy doing it instead of just sitting back and complaining while using their services.

Ezzy,
You're right..you won't change my mind. Think about the 70,000 Labs that will be bred this year and whether you think the AKC cares if that is in the interest of the breed. There is no responsibility that accompanies AKC registration....owners/breeders get to decide how much or little they assume. Just bureaucrats....who limit the reach of the breed clubs to protect the "rainbow coalition". You do realize that the separate breed clubs try to educate the judges as to the standards for the breeds???

Yes, I understand it and I agree it is what the breeds should do. After all, AKC's responsibility starts and ends as our secretary keeping the Stud Book up to date. I sure don't want them telling us how are dogs are supposed to look or how many we should breed and raise. I still believe in personal responsibility and when there is a problem it is our fault and not theirs. Why should they get involved in our business and freedoms? There are way too many people wanting to blame someone else over everything they don't agree with. I have fought for our freedom and I am not going to give it away so I can sit back and blame someone else for my problem.

Lets see how many want AKC telling us who and how often we can breed and raise a litter?

Ezzy

[Cajun Casey]

Actually, AKC does regulate breeding by requiring DNA on frequently used sires and having the right to inspect kennels and records of breeders who produce certain numbers of litters per year.

[ezzy333]

Actually, AKC does regulate breeding by requiring DNA on frequently used sires and having the right to inspect kennels and records of breeders who produce certain numbers of litters per year.

THat's quite a stretch to call that regulating breeding. Think DNA just proves what you tell people and kennels are housing and nothing more.

Ezzy

[Doc E]

PS Poor 'Doc - AKC wouldn't let him play in its sandbox long enough, like at master hunt tests, so now he denounces it in favor of "UKC - great dogs, great people."

... Good One ...

See you at the Grand ...



.

[JKP]

Why should they get involved in our business and freedoms? There are way too many people wanting to blame someone else over everything they don't agree with. I have fought for our freedom and I am not going to give it away so I can sit back and blame someone else for my problem.

For years I watched a lot of overweight women and non hunters parade "poopsies" around the ring and thought that was great...even did some myself. Then as my performance expectations grew, I realized I was involved in a registry( breed club) and system that sucked the air out of the room....and that the gene pool of hard core versatile dogs(and the number of folks with that priority) in my breed was very small. The club was about the people..a "woo-hoo" moment...not the breed...

I think with Britts it may be better. Appears to me that a lot of serious performance folk have moved away from the AKC, especially Vdoggers...we don't see many Britts in the swamp these days...and that's a shame.

[Francois P vd Walt]

Why is the fact that AKC needs to make money such a sore spot with people? Do they get so upset with Amercan Field? NAVHDA? NASTRA? How do you think the things that AKC does, gets done? Everyone wants to be compensated for their services, from the secretaries to the field reps to the guy that does the computer programing.

Without getting puppy owners to register puppies, the cost of everything else we do with AKC would skyrocket!

I used to be able to fill my gas tank for $10...

I don't believe you HAVE to send in the form with the new owners names. They hope you do, if it bugs you that much, don't do it. What do you think they are going to do, come to your house?

I'll argue that there are some at AKC that are making salaries that are outrageous....figureheads and not much more. The easiest way to not deal with them, is to not deal with them at all. Don't register your puppies, period.

Fuzz

Right on!

Ezzy

+1 the big moaners have not realised money makes the world go round !

[dakotashooter2]

I have yet to register a dog. Really no point to it. I don't intend on trialing or breeding my dogs so what do I gain outside of saying my dog is registered. And honestly I've often wondered if that REALLY means anything

[dockgsp]

The AKC has to get rid of the money eating Ivory Tower in Manhattan. Move everything to N.Carlina.

[Savage Destiny]

Yes, I understand it and I agree it is what the breeds should do. After all, AKC's responsibility starts and ends as our secretary keeping the Stud Book up to date. I sure don't want them telling us how are dogs are supposed to look or how many we should breed and raise. I still believe in personal responsibility and when there is a problem it is our fault and not theirs. Why should they get involved in our business and freedoms? There are way too many people wanting to blame someone else over everything they don't agree with. I have fought for our freedom and I am not going to give it away so I can sit back and blame someone else for my problem.

Lets see how many want AKC telling us who and how often we can breed and raise a litter?

Ezzy

Except they ARE telling people how dogs are supposed to look. Breed standards are exactly that, and they're set by the AKC. Breed standards which more often than not call for deformities that are detrimental to the dogs. German Shepherds being a prime example... The AKC has completely ruined many dog breeds, getting people to breed more and more deformed dogs in order to win.

At least the UKC will change standards if they notice a breed trend starting to affect health. They did it for the APBT.

[Cajun Casey]

Yes, I understand it and I agree it is what the breeds should do. After all, AKC's responsibility starts and ends as our secretary keeping the Stud Book up to date. I sure don't want them telling us how are dogs are supposed to look or how many we should breed and raise. I still believe in personal responsibility and when there is a problem it is our fault and not theirs. Why should they get involved in our business and freedoms? There are way too many people wanting to blame someone else over everything they don't agree with. I have fought for our freedom and I am not going to give it away so I can sit back and blame someone else for my problem.

Lets see how many want AKC telling us who and how often we can breed and raise a litter?

Ezzy

Except they ARE telling people how dogs are supposed to look. Breed standards are exactly that, and they're set by the AKC. Breed standards which more often than not call for deformities that are detrimental to the dogs. German Shepherds being a prime example... The AKC has completely ruined many dog breeds, getting people to breed more and more deformed dogs in order to win.

At least the UKC will change standards if they notice a breed trend starting to affect health. They did it for the APBT.

The AKC has nothing to do with breed standards. That is the responsibility of the individual breed clubs. And don't even get me started on pit bulls and UKC.

[ezzy333]

Yes, I understand it and I agree it is what the breeds should do. After all, AKC's responsibility starts and ends as our secretary keeping the Stud Book up to date. I sure don't want them telling us how are dogs are supposed to look or how many we should breed and raise. I still believe in personal responsibility and when there is a problem it is our fault and not theirs. Why should they get involved in our business and freedoms? There are way too many people wanting to blame someone else over everything they don't agree with. I have fought for our freedom and I am not going to give it away so I can sit back and blame someone else for my problem.

Lets see how many want AKC telling us who and how often we can breed and raise a litter?

Ezzy

Except they ARE telling people how dogs are supposed to look. Breed standards are exactly that, and they're set by the AKC. Breed standards which more often than not call for deformities that are detrimental to the dogs. German Shepherds being a prime example... The AKC has completely ruined many dog breeds, getting people to breed more and more deformed dogs in order to win.

At least the UKC will change standards if they notice a breed trend starting to affect health. They did it for the APBT.

You simply do not know of what you speak.

Ezzy

[Savage Destiny]

Yes, I understand it and I agree it is what the breeds should do. After all, AKC's responsibility starts and ends as our secretary keeping the Stud Book up to date. I sure don't want them telling us how are dogs are supposed to look or how many we should breed and raise. I still believe in personal responsibility and when there is a problem it is our fault and not theirs. Why should they get involved in our business and freedoms? There are way too many people wanting to blame someone else over everything they don't agree with. I have fought for our freedom and I am not going to give it away so I can sit back and blame someone else for my problem.

Lets see how many want AKC telling us who and how often we can breed and raise a litter?

Ezzy

Except they ARE telling people how dogs are supposed to look. Breed standards are exactly that, and they're set by the AKC. Breed standards which more often than not call for deformities that are detrimental to the dogs. German Shepherds being a prime example... The AKC has completely ruined many dog breeds, getting people to breed more and more deformed dogs in order to win.

At least the UKC will change standards if they notice a breed trend starting to affect health. They did it for the APBT.

You simply do not know of what you speak.

Ezzy

Yeah, I absolutely don't know that the UKC changed the breed standard for the APBT in order to keep the deformed hippos people are/were breeding from winning in the ring.