Regarding HSUS and pheasant stocking

[bhairhoger]

HSUS: Agencies should cease pheasant stocking

http://www.humanesociety.org/assets/pdf ... 07_rev.pdf

[DogNewbie]

Habitat conservation is what increases the pheasant population in the long run. Stocking is just a quick fix that only lasts for the year.

[Cajun Casey]

Release birds generate a lot of money for local economies.

[ezzy333]

Habitat conservation is what increases the pheasant population in the long run. Stocking is just a quick fix that only lasts for the year.

They don't mstock to increase the population but for shooting since the released birds do not live over the winter.


Ezzy

[DogNewbie]

Habitat conservation is what increases the pheasant population in the long run. Stocking is just a quick fix that only lasts for the year.

They don't mstock to increase the population but for shooting since the released birds do not live over the winter.


Ezzy

Yes, they're increasing the population for the hunting season only because they want to see/shoot more birds. I just think a better plan would be to conserve more habitat to support and sustain the larger population you're hoping to have year after year. IMO if you want lots of birds every season you should do it right and create a healthy self sustaining population rather than release a bunch of pen raised birds that are too dumb to survive the winter.

[buckshot0074]

In my area it is the only way to have birds to hunt (releasing them). Way to many predators here fox, hawk, eagle, coyote, etc ....

[ElhewPointer]

Aren't pheasant native to China, which means they were "stocked" here in the first place?

[Cajun Casey]

Pheasant, huns and chukar are all non-native to the North American continent.

[AZ Brittany Guy]

What's next, banning the stocking of trout?

[ezzy333]

Habitat conservation is what increases the pheasant population in the long run. Stocking is just a quick fix that only lasts for the year.

They don't mstock to increase the population but for shooting since the released birds do not live over the winter.


Ezzy

Yes, they're increasing the population for the hunting season only because they want to see/shoot more birds. I just think a better plan would be to conserve more habitat to support and sustain the larger population you're hoping to have year after year. IMO if you want lots of birds every season you should do it right and create a healthy self sustaining population rather than release a bunch of pen raised birds that are too dumb to survive the winter.

I agree it would be nice to have more habitat. How do you suggest providing it? If the government is going to do it it will raise taxes, if the private owner is going to do it he will have to charge a fee for hunting, and there is no guarantee either will work. Nice to have a self sustaining population but I don't think it is something we create. Takes more than that.

Are you aware that South Dakota releases a bunch of pen raised birds that are too dumb to live through the winter? But that makes little difference since most are shot by hunters.

Ezzy

[SpinoneIllinois]

They're a bunch of hippie crackpots.

[Cajun Casey]

They're a bunch of hippie crackpots.

No, they're not. They are a widespread, highly organized and trained group of terrorists. Just look at some of the hate slung at that female Olympian whose hunting photos went around.

[shags]

^^^this!

http://twitchy.com/2012/08/05/anti-hunt ... st-family/

[tfbirddog2]

Personally I have seen what leaving a little habitat and releasing breed hens in the spring will do. I literaly does number on a population, but consistant releasing for a five year period and leaving habitat all the time helps. I have seen it first hand. Also you look at what S. Dakoata does. They pay their farmers to leave habitat for the birds it is not just for the hunting revenue, its for the birds and wildlife too. 3 million ayear.1 mill for harvest,1 for carry over, 1 for winter kill. Multi million dollars for the state!

When it comes to the Ringneck Pheasant it is the greatest migration of man or beast. Brought to the U.S. buy a wealthy man from Europe to Oregon I beleive from there he bulit a pen for I think was 200 pairs so he could still hunt them like he did in his home land. A large snow storm came and blew the pen down, releasing all but a few birds in to the wild those birds started our pop. In like 186o's I beleive.

[ckirsch]

The South Dakota Game, Fish, & Parks doesn't release any birds. Seems like I'm constantly reading that on forums, but it's never been the case. While it's true that some of the larger pay-to-hunt operations release birds, the state doesn't. If you shoot South Dakota ringnecks anywhere other than commercial preserves, they're wild birds.

A good friend farms near Presho, and takes out pay-hunting parties, but only during season, thus he's not considered a preserve. Over a thousand roosters are consistently taken off of his four or five sections of land each year. He's never released any birds, nor have his neighbors. He keeps a fair amount of ground in CRP, provides abundant food plots, and has planted a lot of shelterbelts. Nature provides the rest.

[Cajun Casey]

The South Dakota Game, Fish, & Parks doesn't release any birds. Seems like I'm constantly reading that on forums, but it's never been the case. While it's true that some of the larger pay-to-hunt operations release birds, the state doesn't. If you shoot South Dakota ringnecks anywhere other than commercial preserves, they're wild birds.

A good friend farms near Presho, and takes out pay-hunting parties, but only during season, thus he's not considered a preserve. Over a thousand roosters are consistently taken off of his four or five sections of land each year. He's never released any birds, nor have his neighbors. He keeps a fair amount of ground in CRP, provides abundant food plots, and has planted a lot of shelterbelts. Nature provides the rest.

So, those million dollar banded bitds hatch that way?

[DogNewbie]

I agree it would be nice to have more habitat. How do you suggest providing it? If the government is going to do it it will raise taxes, if the private owner is going to do it he will have to charge a fee for hunting, and there is no guarantee either will work. Nice to have a self sustaining population but I don't think it is something we create. Takes more than that.

Are you aware that South Dakota releases a bunch of pen raised birds that are too dumb to live through the winter? But that makes little difference since most are shot by hunters.

Ezzy

Well for one thing, the Government doesn't have to get rid of the CRP program like some politicians are calling for. That would be a real bummer if that program went away. If you want something you gotta pay for it. Personally I pay for it through PF membership and other conservation donations, including raising my own taxes by checking that little conservation donation box on my tax form. PF has bought large acreages of land in the past and turned it into public hunting land. I agree, its not something we create, its something we try not to destroy. It's a little strange talking about conserving habitat for a transplanted species from Georgia, but when we did introduce the pheasant to the US, it thrived. Then we took away habitat and the numbers dropped. All I'm saying is, if you want increased numbers of wild birds, which I do, you need to give back some of the habitat we took away. There's no other solution to increasing wild bird numbers. I'm not against releasing birds, I'm just against using it as a long term solution to increasing bird populations because that's not a solution in my mind.

[birddog1968]

What's next, banning the stocking of trout?

Sure ! Peta calls them stream kittens

[DogNewbie]

What's next, banning the stocking of trout?

I'm not sure how they do it AZ, but the way I've seen trout stocking go is a complete joke. You approach a stream and the fish gather at your feet waiting for pellets. People literally use pellet flies to catch them. Up on Superior they release sterile steelhead fry, called loopers into the streams. These fish grow bigger and stronger than the wild steelhead but they still migrate up the rivers to spawn. I can't imagine having sterile stronger fish in the river during spawning helps the population thrive, but people only care about catching that big Looper.

[campbellj21]

^^^this!

http://twitchy.com/2012/08/05/anti-hunt ... st-family/

Well that was a pleasant read

[cjhills]

The South Dakota Game, Fish, & Parks doesn't release any birds. Seems like I'm constantly reading that on forums, but it's never been the case. While it's true that some of the larger pay-to-hunt operations release birds, the state doesn't. If you shoot South Dakota ringnecks anywhere other than commercial preserves, they're wild birds.

A good friend farms near Presho, and takes out pay-hunting parties, but only during season, thus he's not considered a preserve. Over a thousand roosters are consistently taken off of his four or five sections of land each year. He's never released any birds, nor have his neighbors. He keeps a fair amount of ground in CRP, provides abundant food plots, and has planted a lot of shelterbelts. Nature provides the rest.

So, those million dollar banded bitds hatch that way?

SDDNR doesn't release the million dollar banded birds. Shooting preserves release a lot of birds that are hatched in Mn. in spite of what there ads say.Some survive. Check the nostrils.
If stocking don't work why are there chinese pheasants here

[tfbirddog2]

They release birds in S.D., just call Macfarland hatcheries. I know a game farm that delivers there about next month! And its not to a lodge its for the state!

[cjhills]

I would like to see some proof of that. cj

[SD Pheasant Slayer]

Tf - I'd also like to see some proof of that. My guess is that your source is confused about exactly who is releasing the birds. The state of South Dakota DOES NOT release pheasants. There might be a few instances across the state where a club (PF, Izaac Walton, etc.) releases birds for a youth hunt onto public land, but those instances are VERY few and far between and the state isn't footing the bill. It drives me nuts to read these misconceptions so frequently on different boards.

[tfbirddog2]

Ok, Slayer not wanting to turn this into one of those post, but I know what I know and I will leave it at that. But being a local board member of P.F. no chapter is to release any birds, exception to youth hunts and that must be on private or controlled shooting.

[tfbirddog2]

Oh yeah boys, lets also not forget, when they inacted the Predator Bird Act in the late 70's bird pop. dropped.No controll of hawks, and owls is a big factor on bird pops too, not just coons and yotes. Reading a article a few years ago is said in the state of Kansas 2 redtailed hawks for every square mile in Kansas.

[nikegundog]

Tf - I'd also like to see some proof of that. My guess is that your source is confused about exactly who is releasing the birds. The state of South Dakota DOES NOT release pheasants. There might be a few instances across the state where a club (PF, Izaac Walton, etc.) releases birds for a youth hunt onto public land, but those instances are VERY few and far between and the state isn't footing the bill. It drives me nuts to read these misconceptions so frequently on different boards.

No need to release birds when you can just mandate lodges to do it for you. 600 roosters minimum a year per reserve mandated by the State.

[Cajun Casey]

http://www.milliondollarbird.com/

[cjhills]

THe million dollar birds and other bird are not released by the SD game and fish Shooting preserves and lodges are required to release birds if they shoot wild birds. They start the first of sept. Some released birds do survive. Some lodges buy and release large numbers of mn. birds. If you hunt for three months on your land the wild birds will be scarce. Most of the hunting lodge customers couldn't care less, But wild birds look good in their ads.They don't all stay on private land and some survive also some communities have fund raisers and buy young birds and bred hens which people release. They all have their beliefs Hawks,hunting pressure. weather and other things. It is pretty much lack of nesting habitat mostly from overgrown crp. that needs to be burn or mowed.
South Dakota Department of game and fish does not release birds CJ

[Cajun Casey]

THe million dollar birds and other bird are not released by the SD game and fish Shooting preserves and lodges are required to release birds if they shoot wild birds. They start the first of sept. Some released birds do survive. Some lodges buy and release large numbers of mn. birds. If you hunt for three months on your land the wild birds will be scarce. Most of the hunting lodge customers couldn't care less, But wild birds look good in their ads.They don't all stay on private land and some survive also some communities have fund raisers and buy young birds and bred hens which people release. They all have their beliefs Hawks,hunting pressure. weather and other things. It is pretty much lack of nesting habitat mostly from overgrown crp. that needs to be burn or mowed.
South Dakota Department of game and fish does not release birds CJ

No one cares who releases them. They can release emus for all I care. The point is that the practice is under assault by a bunch of very well organized terrorists who will do anything they can to advance their agenda.

[ckirsch]

Cajun, you've insinuated repeatedly that our state releases birds, when that simply isn't the case. The city of Aberdeen releases a few tagged birds to help fill more local motel rooms, but that hardly constitutes a release program by the State of South Dakota. Yes, the commercial preserves release birds on their ground, but it's been pretty well established that few if any of those survive past a week or two, and they are completely insignificant in the overall number of pheasants in South Dakota.

I read this drivel over and over on various forums, always posted by an out-of-stater who knows a guy who knows a guy. Some of you seem to believe that our GF&P is flying around dumping birds out of black helicopters or something. That's just not the case. We've been blessed with an abundance of wild birds, although it would appear that our best days will likely soon be behind us with the loss of so much CRP. I suppose we might one day have to resort to stocking, as so many other states do, but as of right now, I'm not familiar with terrorists advancing any agenda in South Dakota.

[ezzy333]

Cajun, you've insinuated repeatedly that our state releases birds, when that simply isn't the case. The city of Aberdeen releases a few tagged birds to help fill more local motel rooms, but that hardly constitutes a release program by the State of South Dakota. Yes, the commercial preserves release birds on their ground, but it's been pretty well established that few if any of those survive past a week or two, and they are completely insignificant in the overall number of pheasants in South Dakota.

I read this drivel over and over on various forums, always posted by an out-of-stater who knows a guy who knows a guy. Some of you seem to believe that our GF&P is flying around dumping birds out of black helicopters or something. That's just not the case. We've been blessed with an abundance of wild birds, although it would appear that our best days will likely soon be behind us with the loss of so much CRP. I suppose we might one day have to resort to stocking, as so many other states do, but as of right now, I'm not familiar with terrorists advancing any agenda in South Dakota.

I think what leads everyone to think they release birds are the ads that say there are birds being released. SD is very much like IL since they don't do the releasing but make the outfitters release them. Amounts to the same thing. They did release them a few years back but then changed their program.

However, this is completely off topic as what this thread is about is HSUS trying to get it stopped. And don't think they care much who is urning them loose.

Ezzy

[Cajun Casey]

Cajun, you've insinuated repeatedly that our state releases birds, when that simply isn't the case. The city of Aberdeen releases a few tagged birds to help fill more local motel rooms, but that hardly constitutes a release program by the State of South Dakota. Yes, the commercial preserves release birds on their ground, but it's been pretty well established that few if any of those survive past a week or two, and they are completely insignificant in the overall number of pheasants in South Dakota.

I read this drivel over and over on various forums, always posted by an out-of-stater who knows a guy who knows a guy. Some of you seem to believe that our GF&P is flying around dumping birds out of black helicopters or something. That's just not the case. We've been blessed with an abundance of wild birds, although it would appear that our best days will likely soon be behind us with the loss of so much CRP. I suppose we might one day have to resort to stocking, as so many other states do, but as of right now, I'm not familiar with terrorists advancing any agenda in South Dakota.

You might want to read the original article and also the one about the Olympian.

[prairiefirepointers]

I dang sure don't support the HSUS or anyone affiliated with them. At least not intentionally... However, there has got to be a better solution than releasing all these PR birds. Conservation perhaps?? Cutting back on bag limits?? These are just some ideas that pop into mind. I seem to remember that when the waterfowl numbers were waning that they initiated a points system and cut WAY back on the daily bag limits allowed by duck hunters for quite some time until the waterfowl numbers rebounded through conservation, etc.

Not saying I have the answers, Just some food for thought.

[birddog1968]

I dang sure don't support the HSUS or anyone affiliated with them. At least not intentionally... However, there has got to be a better solution than releasing all these PR birds. Conservation perhaps?? Cutting back on bag limits?? These are just some ideas that pop into mind. I seem to remember that when the waterfowl numbers were waning that they initiated a points system and cut WAY back on the daily bag limits allowed by duck hunters for quite some time until the waterfowl numbers rebounded through conservation, etc.

Not saying I have the answers, Just some food for thought.

There are places wild birds will never come back, how much more of a loss would it be to loose those folks and their dogs that still like to get out and pay their way......want less birddogs and bird hunters, then dividing outselves on such a silly subject will be a start..... Some people like to buy their chicken wrapped in plastic some folks like to take a walk with their dog an harvest their chicken. The introduction of youth in those area's without wild birds would be a great loss as well....... Simple as that !

You can't run conservation programs on concrete and asphalt and you can't reduce limits where there have been no birds in decades.....

[cjhills]

bag limits have no effect on pheasant populations in cocks only seasons. the more roosters killed the more hens survive and niether do predator control programs. Loss of crp is big the pheasant numbers took off when crp program started. Nesting habitat and winter cover are the big thing. Very few pheasants starve. With all the effort bad weather,especially wet cold hatching weather will decimate the populations. with good habitat and weather recovery is quick. CJ

[tn red]

They're a bunch of hippie crackpots.

No, they're not. They are a widespread, highly organized and trained group of terrorists. Just look at some of the hate slung at that female Olympian whose hunting photos went around.

x 100 If i ran NSTRA id watch HSUS ....your on the list as sport killin

[tn red]

http://www.humanesociety.org/news/press ... 11609.html

Here is one more for those that raise a few pups
http://protectwhatsright.wordpress.com/ ... sportsmen/

[dakotashooter2]

I remember hearing that pheasant spring survival rate is only like 25% of those going into winter. Given that it would take a lot of habitat, probably much more than is feasible to naturally maintain numbers even close to those provided by stocking.

[prairiefirepointers]

bag limits have no effect on pheasant populations in cocks only seasons. the more roosters killed the more hens survive and niether do predator control programs. Loss of crp is big the pheasant numbers took off when crp program started. Nesting habitat and winter cover are the big thing. Very few pheasants starve. With all the effort bad weather,especially wet cold hatching weather will decimate the populations. with good habitat and weather recovery is quick. CJ

So heck, Lets make it a 25 bird daily bag limit per person and things should be lookin up in no time.

[tommyboy72]

I know from being in QU that habitat restoration only works to improve numbers and give existing breeding populations cover, food, water, etc. If you do not have a healthy breeding population in the area already it isn't going to do jacksquat for you you. Habitat restoration does not bring birds into an area where there were none to begin with. Quail, at least, are territorial and will stay fairly close to the area where they were hatched. Improve that area and you are golden. Improve an area a couple miles away and they are not going to pack up and move to Beverly. I think releasing birds, especially hens, in early to mid spring to breed with wild roosters over perhaps a 5 year period could help to establish sustainable wild populations of pheasant. Releasing in the fall before hunting season merely gives hunters birds to hunt. As has been stated most are not going to survive the winter. You have to give released birds a chance to intermingle with and breed with wild populations to truely improve survivable populations that can make it through winters and are intelligent enough to hide from predators. Everyone seems to be big on predator control which also helps but if you have ever been around pen raised birds they are a pain the a%^ to catch to transport or train with so they are not just standing around waiting on a bobcat or coyote to eat them, they are intelligent enough to run and hide just not as flighty or skittish as wild birds. Predator control is helpful but the vast majority of release birds die from inclement weather not predators. I think another problem with developing a breeding population of pheasant, quail, whatever is trespassing hunters. You can do all you want on your own land but as soon as someone sees that you have a small population of birds starting to develop and survive they are going to want to shoot them with or without your consent. JMO

[RayGubernat]

Guys -

If HSUS wants all state agencies to ban stocking of pheasants, there is one thing you may be sure of:

They have identified the stocking of pheasants as a way for a large fraction of the hunting population to continue to enjoy the sport.

THAT is the only reason that HSUS is against stocking pheasants.

Because it provides an upland sporting opportunity to tens of thousands of sportsmen who would otherwise not have any such opportunity, it is a serious threat to their agenda. It is an especially serious threat because many of the folks who benefit from pheasant stocking are in highly urbanized areas where there the HSUS flourishes due to misinformation. These folks are there to buy hunting licenses, to support conservation initiatives and most importantly, to be there to give the lie to the HSUS propaganda.

It is really hard to put hate for hunters into a person's mind when your son or daughter has a soccer or baseball teammate who hunts and fishes with their parent or when one of your neighbors is a hunter, and whose family is a credit to the neighborhood.

Add to that the fact that most upland hunters also harbor hunting dogs, sometimes several of them, the HSUS has compelling reasons to want this type of activity to end.

It is truly unfortunate, but the fact of the matter isn that without stocking programs of one sort or another, there are virtually no upland bird hunting opportunities east of the Mississippi other than Grouse and the woodcock flight. Quail are essentially absent from their historic ranges and pheasant, while somewhat more tenacious, are so rare throughout most of their historic range as to be not worth pursuing. That is not going to get change for the better given the incresing pressure from development on existing croplands and the increasing financial pressures on farmland to produce more efficiently.

If HSUS wants it... we as sportsmen should probably oppose it without much debate.

RayG

[DougB]

HSUS is about their definition of animal welfare and are not to be confused with your local human shelter. There philosophy is very close to PETA, which means to get lots of money and publicity, spend little on animal welfare, lots on administration.

http://humanewatch.org/

Interesting to read.

[rkappes]

Aren't pheasant native to China, which means they were "stocked" here in the first place?

I was thinking the same exact thing.....

[bwire]

http://www.outdoornewsservice.com/index ... &Itemid=18

Here is a recent article on the HSUS.

[cjhills]

bag limits have no effect on pheasant populations in cocks only seasons. the more roosters killed the more hens survive and niether do predator control programs. Loss of crp is big the pheasant numbers took off when crp program started. Nesting habitat and winter cover are the big thing. Very few pheasants starve. With all the effort bad weather,especially wet cold hatching weather will decimate the populations. with good habitat and weather recovery is quick. CJ

So heck, Lets make it a 25 bird daily bag limit per person and things should be lookin up in no time.

I wouldn't make it better but it wouldn't make it worse either if roosters only are shot. Roosters compete with the hens for food and being bigger they win. 75 to 80 percent of the roosters can be shot with no long term effect on the population. limit has little or no effect on total kill. Mn. increased the bag limit in Dec. with no increase in the numbers taken. Of course this isn't what the post was about. cj

[RayGubernat]

Guys -

You are not getting the picture here.

Organizations like HSUS take postitions that will advance their cause. They also take positions where they know some controversy exists so that their opposition ends up fighting with each other.

I suggest that each and every one of us here contact their state wildlife division and their legislators advocating a stocking program of some sort to increase sportsman's opportunities. I don't care if it is pheasants in Alabama. quail in North Dakota, turkeys in Nevada or jackrabbits in Oklahoma. Lobby your state to stock SOMETHING so folks will have an additional incentive to go and buy a hunting license and keep and harbor a hunting dog. Make the powers that be understand that their funding is at risk and their jobs are also, if the numbers of upland hunters decreases. THAT is the kind of thing that gets real attention from politicians and those who run government programs.

Lobby for youth day canned hunts in your state...at the very least. They cannot say no to getting youth involved with the sport without getting a black eye and that will stop the HSUS dead in their tracks.

If you take their initiative and turn it on its head to a frontal attack on their position...they WILL lose and they WILL back off. Reason does not work with determined, terrorist organizations. They in fact depend on the opposition being reasonable. You need to push back and push back hard because SOB's like this will keep on coming. If we don't back them up, we will continue to lose ground.

RayG

[birddogger]

controversy exists so that their opposition ends up fighting with each other.

This is very true. These people are way out in left field but they are not stupid.

Charlie

[tommyboy72]

Ray, uhhh we have plenty of jackrabbits in Oklahoma but I get your point.

[DogNewbie]

Aren't pheasant native to China, which means they were "stocked" here in the first place?

I was thinking the same exact thing.....

The common pheasant is native to Georgia (the country.) I'm not positive, but I think the us population did come from china where they were also an introduced species.