Gun Dog Forum

He moved the cows and put the horses away so we could shoot, then retrieved all to beer cooler as trained. Hasn't been beat in a FRPSA (Fresno Redneck Porch Shooters Association) event to date. Helps that he is the only dog entered I guess. But we have some new prospects that look promising.

But he's not german so he stinks

Good dog!

I hope the guy with the heeler mix pup sees this.

Buckeye_V wrote:But he's not german so he stinks

Good dog!

I know the Australian/Fresneck training and conditioning methods are a bit unconventional but it has seemed to pay great dividends around the porch.

1. You must leave the dog with your friends free feeding mother in the off season. (We found through our annual event that the Dog is much more likely to hold tight in the blind until shots are fired. To those who are new to the sport this is often confused with sleeping under the porch. It does take a trained eye to notice the nuances of the sport)

2. Make sure that tail is nice and tight so it doesn't knock over your beverage.

But the big question is, will he guard your truck?

Cajun Casey wrote:I hope the guy with the heeler mix pup sees this.

ElhewPointer wrote:But the big question is, will he guard your truck?

The word Versatile, as used by Bird Hunters is a canard, and disingenuous in how its used and errantly applied by so many here.

It means a dog that can switch gears, is under control, and can hunt Fur, Feather and Waterfowl, sometimes in the same day, under any conditions.
If it can guard, that for me is a bonus.

I also hunted with an offbreed, owned a few GSDs, and took them along, Not quite the same performance but I learned a little bit. The irony of this thread, is that that Cattle Dog is probably more Versatile than most of the trial hounds here.


If you want to see the definition of a real American Versatile Dog, this is it...video..
Elk recovery for the state, Deer, Dove, Duck, Hog, Quail & Phez with the same dog, and its all in the day for the breed, if one knows the breed.
http://www.vommoorehaus.com/truly-versatile-video.php

BillThomas wrote:

ElhewPointer wrote:But the big question is, will he guard your truck?

The word Versatile, as used by Bird Hunters is a canard, and disingenuous in how its used and errantly applied by so many here.

It means a dog that can switch gears, is under control, and can hunt Fur, Feather and Waterfowl, sometimes in the same day, under any conditions.
If it can guard, that for me is a bonus.

I also hunted with an offbreed, owned a few GSDs, and took them along, Not quite the same performance but I learned a little bit. The irony of this thread, is that that Cattle Dog is probably more Versatile than most of the trial hounds here.


If you want to see the definition of a real American Versatile Dog, this is it...video..Elk, Deer, ove, Duck, Hog Quail & Phez
http://www.vommoorehaus.com/truly-versatile-video.php

Bill your deffinition of versatile is way different then the FRPSA definition. I would very much appreciate it if you would withhold further comment until you are thoroughly familiar with the official rules of the event.

Example In section 2.3 you would of also noticed that a dog must be steady on all unattended Tri-tip sandwiches and never cross the path of a horseshoe pit while a game is in progress.

You just can't know these things until you have participated.



Thanks

Garrison wrote: Bill your deffinition of versatile is way different then the FRPSA definition. I would very much appreciate it if you would withhold further comment until you are thoroughly familiar with the official rules of the event.

The Concept OF The Versatile Dog was develeoped IN Europe, Coined IN Europe and elsewhere, is still practiced IN Europe by the Umbrella agency for the repesctive breed clubs.
I simply paraphrase their definition. Id appreciate if Youd use the Correct definition of the word Versatile as it applies TO European dogs and hunting tradition, not horseshoes, social events and/or Not a dictionary version.

I really dont think youd know a Versatile dog if it bit you in the rear end.
Fetching doves doesnt make a dog Versatile, nor does fetching bumpers from a lake, or fish, or teaching your dog tricks..


"The JGV-USA is a full member organization of the JGHV (Jagdgebrauchshundverband) in Germany.
The JGHV is the umbrella organization of all versatile hunting dog clubs in Germany.
They have been largely responsible for the immense success of the German performance based breeding system by providing standardized tests for all versatile hunting dogs.
Existing for almost a century now, JGHV testing standards bind all breeding organizations, including those represented here in the U.S. By evaluating the breeding quality of dogs through examination of their performance record and that of their offspring, German breeders consistently produce dogs most suitable for the modern foot hunter.
These dogs exhibit a high degree of cooperation and trainability coupled with the ability to handle any game their master desires to hunt.'

The Deutsch Drahthaar was created in Germany in the late 19th century by a small group of dedicated breeders who set out to develop a versatile hunting dog that would satisfy all aspects of German hunting in field, forest, and water.
This group of breeders succeeded in creating a versatile hunting dog that took its traits from the best dogs of the existing coarse hair breeds, cross bred with the shorthair blood. These ancestors included the Stichelhaar, Pudelpointer, Griffon, and the Deutsch-Kurzhaar.




Organization Structure:
Jagdgebrauchshundverband
A testing organization that establishes standards for the testing of all versatile dogs.

Versatile Breed Associations
Several versatile breed associations conform to the standard testing regulations of the Jagdgebrauchshundverband. Verein Deutsch Drahthaar is a versatile breed association with established breeding requirements for maintaining and improving the Deutsch Drahthaar breed.

Group North America
One of thirty-four member groups of the Verein Deutsch Drahthaar that adheres to requirements for the breeding and testing of Deutsch Drahthaar.

"Bill your deffinition of versatile is way different then the FRPSA definition. I would very much appreciate it if you would withhold further comment until you are thoroughly familiar with the official rules of the event.

Example In section 2.3 you would of also noticed that a dog must be steady on all unattended Tri-tip sandwiches and never cross the path of a horseshoe pit while a game is in progress.

You just can't know these things until you have participated.



Thanks"


That is funny right there!

What are the membership dues and when do you guys have training days?

Does the FRPSA also include getting the newspaper? And if so, does the Sunday paper recieve more points?

BillThomas wrote:

Garrison wrote: Bill your deffinition of versatile is way different then the FRPSA definition. I would very much appreciate it if you would withhold further comment until you are thoroughly familiar with the official rules of the event.

The Concept OF The Versatile Dog was develeoped IN Europe, Coined IN Europe and elsewhere, is still practiced IN Europe by the Umbrella agency for the repesctive breed clubs.
I simply paraphrase their definition. Id appreciate if Youd use the Correct definition of the word Versatile as it applies TO European dogs and hunting tradition, not horseshoes, social events and/or Not a dictionary version.

I really dont think youd know a Versatile dog if it bit you in the rear end.
Fetching doves doesnt make a dog Versatile, nor does fetching bumpers from a lake, or fish, or teaching your dog tricks..


"The JGV-USA is a full member organization of the JGHV (Jagdgebrauchshundverband) in Germany.
The JGHV is the umbrella organization of all versatile hunting dog clubs in Germany.
They have been largely responsible for the immense success of the German performance based breeding system by providing standardized tests for all versatile hunting dogs.
Existing for almost a century now, JGHV testing standards bind all breeding organizations, including those represented here in the U.S. By evaluating the breeding quality of dogs through examination of their performance record and that of their offspring, German breeders consistently produce dogs most suitable for the modern foot hunter.
These dogs exhibit a high degree of cooperation and trainability coupled with the ability to handle any game their master desires to hunt.'

The Deutsch Drahthaar was created in Germany in the late 19th century by a small group of dedicated breeders who set out to develop a versatile hunting dog that would satisfy all aspects of German hunting in field, forest, and water.
This group of breeders succeeded in creating a versatile hunting dog that took its traits from the best dogs of the existing coarse hair breeds, cross bred with the shorthair blood. These ancestors included the Stichelhaar, Pudelpointer, Griffon, and the Deutsch-Kurzhaar.




Organization Structure:
Jagdgebrauchshundverband
A testing organization that establishes standards for the testing of all versatile dogs.

Versatile Breed Associations
Several versatile breed associations conform to the standard testing regulations of the Jagdgebrauchshundverband. Verein Deutsch Drahthaar is a versatile breed association with established breeding requirements for maintaining and improving the Deutsch Drahthaar breed.

Group North America
One of thirty-four member groups of the Verein Deutsch Drahthaar that adheres to requirements for the breeding and testing of Deutsch Drahthaar.

Bill, this is my association developed in Fresno and it is our definition for American bred dogs, once again I would appreciate it if you would stop pushing your views of what a Versatile hunting dog should be on me and my fellow competitors. Germany does not own the word Versatile, especially as it applies to the FRPSA. Thank you for your consideration in this matter.

brad27 wrote:What are the membership dues and when do you guys have training days?

You were grandfathered in! A little gas money and a 12 pack.

brad27 wrote:What are the membership dues and when do you guys have training days?

I bet a case of beer would cover it

ver·sa·tile/ˈvərsətl/
Adjective: 1.Able to adapt or be adapted to many different functions or activities

Id say the dog meets the "standard". According to Webster and the FRPSA.

ElhewPointer wrote:ver·sa·tile/ˈvərsətl/
Adjective: 1.Able to adapt or be adapted to many different functions or activities

Id say the dog meets the "standard". According to Webster and the FRPSA.

What in the bloody heck does Websters know about the concept of Versatile Dogs?

The broad definition of 'versatile' is being misapplied TO euro hunting dogs.

Im telling you that the Creators/Founders of these types of dogs defined what, how and why, and its clearly provided.

You make yourself look foolish quoting Websters, Wiki or other non hunting sources.

BillThomas wrote:

ElhewPointer wrote:ver·sa·tile/ˈvərsətl/
Adjective: 1.Able to adapt or be adapted to many different functions or activities

Id say the dog meets the "standard". According to Webster and the FRPSA.

What in the bloody heck does Websters know about the concept of Versatile Dogs?

The broad definition of 'versatile' is being misapplied TO euro hunting dogs.

Im telling you that the Creators/Founders of these types of dogs defined what, how and why, and its clearly provided.

You make yourself look foolish quoting Websters, Wiki or other non hunting sources.

Bill, Bill, Bill. These are the FRPSA standards. Sorry, just playing by the guidelines.

ElhewPointer wrote:

BillThomas wrote:

ElhewPointer wrote:ver·sa·tile/ˈvərsətl/
Adjective: 1.Able to adapt or be adapted to many different functions or activities

Id say the dog meets the "standard". According to Webster and the FRPSA.

What in the bloody heck does Websters know about the concept of Versatile Dogs?

The broad definition of 'versatile' is being misapplied TO euro hunting dogs.

Im telling you that the Creators/Founders of these types of dogs defined what, how and why, and its clearly provided.

You make yourself look foolish quoting Websters, Wiki or other non hunting sources.

Bill, Bill, Bill. These are the FRPSA standards. Sorry, just playing by the guidelines.

Bill

As the creator/founder of th FRPSA I can use the websters definition if I so choose. It applies very well to our one registered animal so I am going to choose to use it. Thank you for your contribution to the betterment of the sport Elhew!

Garrison wrote: Bill

As the creator/founder of th FRPSA I can use the websters definition if I so choose. It applies very well to our one registered animal so I am going to choose to use it. Thank you for your contribution to the betterment of the sport Elhew!

You can.
And it wouldnt make you look any less foolish around Versatile dog men.

This is a versatile (Breed) dog.











Retrieving Seal in Iceland

Yeah... Garrison is the one who looks foolish right now.

Forgot this one!!!

romeo212000 wrote:Yeah... Garrison is the one who looks foolish right now.

+1

I had given up...but with my man Garrison and the tru blue American version of the versatile, hope springs eternal. I will gladly buy the chapter a drink on my next trip to the central valley

Bill

We have thought about adding those elements to our event but with the state of the economy and all we spent our last $6 on shells. Needless to say we didn't have the economic means to acquire the needed lobbyist to change current state law. Then we got to the Iceland seal thing, well the dog gets car sick and we didn't want to put him on the plane.

I had no idea that Ohio was the new Safari destination.

The FRPSA gives me new found hope for the state of California... well done gentlemen... now, can I still attend said training days, with my case of beer as dues and bring my "versatile" dog according to Mr. Thomas' German definition in hopes of learning the appropriate techniques to also be also judged versatile according to the Webster definition?

Chukar12 wrote:I had given up...but with my man Garrison and the tru blue American version of the versatile, hope springs eternal. I will gladly buy the chapter a drink on my next trip to the central valley

And the club would be proud to return the favor! Feel free to bring any of your trial dogs, Old Sparky would be happy to show them the ropes.

Deuce wrote:The FRPSA gives me new found hope for the state of California... well done gentlemen... now, can I still attend said training days, with my case of beer as dues and bring my "versatile" dog according to Mr. Thomas' German definition in hopes of learning the appropriate techniques to also be also judged versatile according to the Webster definition?

Sure, but I am running out of porch real quick!

BillThomas wrote: The word Versatile, as used by Bird Hunters is a canard, and disingenuous in how its used and errantly applied by so many here.

What you mean, Bill, is that it means what you want it to mean. No more and no less.

Greg J.

Bill, no doubt you have a wonderful versatile dog. And you are completely within your right to be proud of that dog and his breeding. However, most here don't appreciate a dog that potters around with his nose to the ground searching for anything that gives off scent. Many here prefer 100% bird dogs (me included) and they come in many forms. It's obvious you are here to stir $hit and that's fine to an extent. It's been very entertaining. I think most would agree that our beautiful 100% bird dogs flying across the ground would not do as well in your "genre", same as your 25% bird dog would not fair well in the field trials that so many here enjoy. No sense in arguing, it's getting old.

Good luck in your endeavors,

Steve

Oh, and by the way Garrison, great job on the dove hunt.

Garrison: Now that is a dog a real dog that truly works for the rights of all Americans to enjoy life liberty and beer. One more event that may fit right in is the run off the trolls like Bill Thomas.

That dog reflects why good all American Versatility works in what ever we strive to do. Love it.

Bill Thomas: no one else will say it so I will ( they are too decent and don't want to stoop to your level) But I will. You are a blooming idiot with no sense of humor no gentalmanly qualities, no intellegence and no real reason to exist on this forum other than to be a complete AZZ$$$ and to stir up the pot to get reactions and you have done it very well. How many of the photos were of you and your quarry? Is the photo of the chick you and this is your cycle week and just trying to make men suffer your wrath. Or did your fine versatile dog run out of steam after a mear three or four hours and you just need to fill your time. Your life must really suck.
I always thought the english were supposed to be more proper than we Americans.
Rick

Boy if I didn't live half way across the country, I would join your group in a heart beat! That sounds like the real deal to me and the true meaning of versatile . I may send a donation anyway and in the meantime, maybe try to get a chapter started here in the midwest. I am rethinking my breed of choice...You got any pups coming soon???! Great job Garrison!!!

Charlie

At every poker table, one player is usually considered by the rest to be "an easy mark." If you don't know who that is, it's you! Bill T., in this case, I'd say you're it...

The word Versatile, as used by Bird Hunters is a canard, and disingenuous in how its used and errantly applied by so many here.

Now that right there is just funny! Canard???? Errantly???? Really????????????????

I'm wondering how many beers a dog has to fetch, and from what it must be fetched from to qualify for a top dog award? Are there style points for getting it out of a fridge? Cooler? And can you explain the point system?

I may just have one of those dogs sitting here...
Fuzz

birddogger wrote:Boy if I didn't live half way across the country, I would join your group in a heart beat! That sounds like the real deal to me and the true meaning of versatile . I may send a donation anyway and in the meantime, maybe try to get a chapter started here in the midwest. I am rethinking my breed of choice...You got any pups coming soon???! Great job Garrison!!!

Charlie

Sorry Charlie no pups on the way, my buddy had to get him clipped because he was a little too good at hunting fur!

Bill, or Bull, or what ever. Shut the heck up, you obviously dont which end of a dog to feed. You and chiggers are the only thing that get under my skin!

Garrison,too late for entries? They fast but handle.


Fear the beard

tn red wrote:Garrison,too late for entries? They fast but handle.


Fear the beard

TN Red

The second dog pictured is no problem, but some of the membership has voiced concerns about the first dog looking to be a little pointerish, go ahead send over a copy of the pedigree and I am sure it will clear everything up.

Sorry to hear that anyone would question lil White Rails Rebel pedigree

Too funny!

I am not sure what made me laugh harder, the intent of the thread or the guy trying to hi-jack it! Either way, I spit my coffee out more than once. Thanks for the laughs!

Anyone happen to know when cheetah season opens? Think I'm gonna give it a try with my AA-bred pointer this year.

Guess I need to surf the web and post up some pictures of other peoples dogs doing things that I have never done.

fuzznut wrote:

The word Versatile, as used by Bird Hunters is a canard, and disingenuous in how its used and errantly applied by so many here.

Now that right there is just funny! Canard???? Errantly???? Really????????????????

I'm wondering how many beers a dog has to fetch, and from what it must be fetched from to qualify for a top dog award? Are there style points for getting it out of a fridge? Cooler? And can you explain the point system?

I may just have one of those dogs sitting here...
Fuzz

The dog doesn't actually have to fetch the beer, it just has to look good while attempting to. Picking up of said bottle or can tends to lower the head and move the tail to a 11:45 position, totally unacceptable.

jarbo03 wrote:

fuzznut wrote:

The word Versatile, as used by Bird Hunters is a canard, and disingenuous in how its used and errantly applied by so many here.

Now that right there is just funny! Canard???? Errantly???? Really????????????????

I'm wondering how many beers a dog has to fetch, and from what it must be fetched from to qualify for a top dog award? Are there style points for getting it out of a fridge? Cooler? And can you explain the point system?

I may just have one of those dogs sitting here...
Fuzz

The dog doesn't actually have to fetch the beer, it just has to look good while attempting to. Picking up of said bottle or can tends to lower the head and move the tail to a 11:45 position, totally unacceptable.

Here's a fair point system
3 points for a retreive to hand on the beer
bonus if he opens said beer
2 points to open the fridge
1 point to guard the truck
DQ for not guarding the truck

ElhewPointer wrote: DQ for not guarding the truck

I'm going to have to look into one of labs that looks suspiciously like a rott.

TraditionsGSPs2010 wrote:I am not sure what made me laugh harder, the intent of the thread or the guy trying to hi-jack it! Either way, I spit my coffee out more than once. Thanks for the laughs!

Sometimes you have to go trolling for the trolls!

[quote=]
The dog doesn't actually have to fetch the beer, it just has to look good while attempting to. Picking up of said bottle or can tends to lower the head and move the tail to a 11:45 position, totally unacceptable.[/quote]

Here's a fair point system
3 points for a retreive to hand on the beer
bonus if he opens said beer
2 points to open the fridge
1 point to guard the truck
DQ for not guarding the truck[/quote]

I could see this being very difficult for the Irish Setter

ckirsch wrote:Anyone happen to know when cheetah season opens? Think I'm gonna give it a try with my AA-bred pointer this year.

It falls somewhere in-between Musk Ox and Yak season.

ACooper wrote:Guess I need to surf the web and post up some pictures of other peoples dogs doing things that I have never done.

Coop,

Make sure you have "Safe Search" on... Otherwise, you may indeed find some things done with dogs you have never done. LMBO