Great trial dog, great bird dog - One in the same?

[BillThomas]

Dang it Bill. Are you drinking beer and spilling on the keyboard again?

Not yet.

Your spelling is a little rough. As an insurance agent, I bet yours would love to see that. HAHA

Grammar Bolsheviks again?
I is next to the U and I havent implemented spell check. If it concerns you, it neednt.

[Mountaineer]

It's always sad to see those who complain of folks spouting superiority of choice.....ditto same at every twist and turn.

I pick my dogs as I pick my hunting partners, not for everything that they can do but for everything that they are.

[Chukar12]

Irrelevant, inane, and nonsensical

Well then we have reached the pinnacle. Just another under achiever with a keyboard that cannot take a whuppin...you are right to stay out of competition of any sort, you aren't built for it.

[BillThomas]

Irrelevant, inane, and nonsensical

Well then we have reached the pinnacle. Just another under achiever with a keyboard that cannot take a whuppin...you are right to stay out of competition of any sort, you aren't built for it.

If you say so.

And all the more ,if the competition is not really a competition, but more of a pagaent, that awards the losing dog to the winners circle, and winning dogs as runner ups and losers.

I'll stay with Hunting and stardard type breeding for selection of my hunting dogs. The same system that created, fostered and developed the same dogs that you believe in "bleep" through your system.

I think trailers are by and large, their own worst enemy and promote a biased, errant, flawed and faulty system, which (uses pen raised birds in most contests in events that are very much Unlike Hunting.) and convinces the participants that more run and style is good, but more finds are bad, all the while, unnaturally on horseback with spotters and trackers.


For the wild birds trialers, they have my respect, generally speaking.

[BillThomas]

It's always sad to see those who complain of folks spouting superiority of choice.....ditto same at every twist and turn.

I pick my dogs as I pick my hunting partners, not for everything that they can do but for everything that they are.

I also pick my dogs are partners, but as tools.

I try to use the best tool for the job.

Some tools are not well suited for many jobs.

[ElhewPointer]

Irrelevant, inane, and nonsensical

Well then we have reached the pinnacle. Just another under achiever with a keyboard that cannot take a whuppin...you are right to stay out of competition of any sort, you aren't built for it.

sorry, i didnt say that

[RayGubernat]

[quote="BillThomas"
To me, its rather simple, elementary, obvious, and blatantly apparent .[/quote]

And THAT my dear sir, is precisely when and where the rudeness, the ignorance and the arrogant superciliousness comes in. Just about the same time you start typing it seems.

You KNOW full well that it is not about the number of finds, but rather the quality of the finds. You know full well that ONE find, where the dog was high and tight, intense and stylish... is far more desirable than a half dozen finds where the dog was on its belly, creeping around, circling, wagging its tail, etc.

We all want different things from our dogs. If your dog started a rabbit, you would be pleased, I am sure. If one of mine started a rabbit, I would fry the sucker, because that ain't what I want it to do.

I do feel sorry for you though. I hope you get better.

RayG

[Greg Jennings]

You know, I like French Vanilla ice cream. My wife likes Moose Tracks. I just don't care for it.

She emailed me a couple of hours ago and told me that she was a scoop of Moose Tracks at lunch. If I had called her and told her that her preferences in ice cream were screwed up, that her preference as irrelevant, I'd be sleeping on the couch for a week...after my my hearing returned.

That's pretty much what Bill is doing. He's trying to push his personal preferences on the community here. It's not surprising that he's getting a virtual earful.

[Chukar12]

fair enough...if you ever care to address the issue that factors change and it means something to birds, bird dogs and hunting because it is part and parcel to mother nature and admit that your ignorance of these issues clouded your argument I would be happy to further the discussion...

...and the trialers are their own worst enemy comment is laughable, trials have expamded in there 130 or 140 years of existence when you consider the added venues...what we better worry about is the right to hunt, and we need folks capable of logical arguments and positive influence to do that...so as you assess your contribution just think of all the friends you made today.

[BillThomas]

I want to understand the purpose of trialing, I really do, but I simply cannot.


My questions are:
1. If the judging is biased, and the event a pagaent, how can there be anything noteworthy in this system?

2. If the best finding dog there loses to a dog with more 'style and run' but less finds, how can this system be promoted?

3. If this system is producing extreme dogs to outpace itself for a short period of time and run frantically, rather than methodically to HUNT, as Canines in the wild do, how can this system be promoted?

4. If this system utilizes unnatural resources like horses, Spotters, Tracking devides to the contestant dogs which manage still to get lost, how can this be promoted for hunters?

5. If this system is producing dogs that mutate into smaller and less efficient movement (As in a Less efficient but more exciting and snappy, animated Gait) for the half day or all day hunter, how is this system promoted?

6. If these trials have morphed into something OTHER than what it was, (A bet over who had the best finding bird dog),
when its not always about the best bird finding dog winning, then How can this system be promoted?

7. If this system is utilizing pen raised birds for the large majority or trials, how can this system be promoted?

8. If this system is not requiring retrieving in many of its events, how can this system be promoted?


Thats my beef with trialing..

[BillThomas]

You know, I like French Vanilla ice cream. My wife likes Moose Tracks. I just don't care for it.

She emailed me a couple of hours ago and told me that she was a scoop of Moose Tracks at lunch. If I had called her and told her that her preferences in ice cream were screwed up, that her preference as irrelevant, I'd be sleeping on the couch for a week...after my my hearing returned.

That's pretty much what Bill is doing. He's trying to push his personal preferences on the community here. It's not surprising that he's getting a virtual earful.

Its not about preference for me, Greg.

We are, after all, discussing HUNTING dogs.

I am trying to talk logic, philosophy, methods and effectiveness with regards to the purpose of trialing, if its not about the best hunting dog.

And for the record, I dont care much for moose tracks either.

[Grange]

For the wild birds trialers, they have my respect, generally speaking.

Many wild bird trialers also trial on pen raised birds with the same dogs no less.

[BillThomas]

And THAT my dear sir, is precisely when and where the rudeness, the ignorance and the arrogant superciliousness comes in. Just about the same time you start typing it seems.

You KNOW full well that it is not about the number of finds, but rather the quality of the finds. You know full well that ONE find, where the dog was high and tight, intense and stylish... is far more desirable than a half dozen finds where the dog was on its belly, creeping around, circling, wagging its tail, etc.

We all want different things from our dogs. If your dog started a rabbit, you would be pleased, I am sure. If one of mine started a rabbit, I would fry the sucker, because that ain't what I want it to do.

I do feel sorry for you though. I hope you get better.

RayG

Number IS Quality for me.
And the more difficult finds and retrieves get special mention.

Please go easy on your dog if he points rabbits.
They might be in good company with the Ames trial dogs. Lots of rabbit pointing in the gallery, judging by the commentary I read.
And you bet Id give mine a bone an maybe even some of the fried rabbit I fried up for my dog after he helped deliver it to hand or circled it back, just like a beagle

[brad27]

I am trying to talk logic, philosophy, methods and effectiveness with regards to the purpose of trialing, if its not about the best hunting dog.

Is that what you're doing? Could have fooled me.

[BillThomas]

For the wild birds trialers, they have my respect, generally speaking.

Many wild bird trialers also trial on pen raised birds with the same dogs no less.

By own admission, most do not. I think thats been established.

[topher40]

This has gotten COMPLETELY off topic and folks are getting all worked up. Get it back on TOPIC or I will lock it, pure and simple.

[RayGubernat]

The underlying assumption of this thread is that hunting dogs, whether they are trial dogs or not, come from trial dogs. There are many excellent hunting dogs that have no trial dogs in their pedigree. There are dogs that have come straight from "pig land" and won in FT. The real take away from this discussion should be that there is no surrogate for judging the real world hunting ability of a dog. You have to hunt...that should be as important a measure as the title. I think the trainers that spend months in the Dakotas or Georgia on wild game realize this. Its the reason that I don't care how well my dogs test...I make my decision on whether they make the team or not...based on what I see from September to March

Bill Thomas,

Welcome back....like the new name!!! My friend, you are delusional if you don't think that there are just as many Euro dogs of many breeds that run the big score VGP and then spend years in a runway being bred. I can name you dogs that got their "jewels" bred off that NEVER went hunting....and some of them are in your dog's pedigree. Go to a stud dog show in Germany...witness 50-100 stud dogs with not a scratch or hair missing....in the middle of February (!!!!) Figure it out. My dogs look pretty ratty come February....the bull briar, stubble and barb wire take their toll...and grouse season doesn't end til the 28th!!!

BTW,

Bill we do the same thing in Euro testing.....a dog that goes out and finds 4 birds and looks asleep doing it is not going to get a very good search score. A dog that covers the ground, digs hard, cover the ground intelligently and shows optimal desire and finds two birds...WILL get the top points for search....its the desire to find game...not how much game. We do the same thing in large part.

JKP -

I personally didn't look into the question that deeply. I sort of took it on its face as a question whethere a great trial dog could be a great hunting dog and vice versa.

For the record, I have seen some Hunt test and Navhda dogs that could have just as easily been very competitive AKC Gundogs. I would strongly suspect that many upper level Hunt Test and Navhda Utility dogs would make very fine hunting companions, but I have no basis for that comparison.

It is encouraging that other evaluating schemes take note of and place value on the quality of the dog work instead of just counting them up as some seem to prefer.

I do agree that there is no substitute for personal observation of the dog's performance, but know that sometimes, that just is not possible or feasible. That is where field trial results, Hunt test and Navhda scores and the like do come in handy. Those publicly available results give the prospective purchaser a certain level of assurance regarding the abilities of the dog and to a limited extent, that dog's littermates and close relations. Without those types of scores and placement results, all the prospective purchaser may have to go on is the seller's word. What that is worth kinda depends on who the seller is.

RayG

[Grange]

For the wild birds trialers, they have my respect, generally speaking.

Many wild bird trialers also trial on pen raised birds with the same dogs no less.

By own admission, most do not. I think thats been established.

You are wrong. That's been established. Go to any cover dog trial and talk to many of the trialers. Not only do they trial with the same dogs on pen raised birds, but they also hunt with the same dogs. Often times they will trial and hunt in the same weekend. We also train on wild birds. The trialers I know spend more time working dogs on wild birds than any other type of bird hunter I know. An the best bird dogs are usually the ones that spend the most time on wild birds.

[hustonmc]

What I've learned from this thread..........
1. Doug always post the best pictures.
2. If I wasn't to stubborn to own a Britt, Chukar12 and I would get along fantastic!!!
3. That repetition works for training bird dogs, but not BillThomas's

[Garrison]

What I've learned from this thread..........
1. Doug always post the best pictures.
2. If I wasn't to stubborn to own a Britt, Chukar12 and I would get along fantastic!!!
3. That repetition works for training bird dogs, but not BillThomas's

Post of the month!

[Greg Jennings]

ob·du·rate adj
\ˈäb-də-rət, -dyə-; äb-ˈdu̇r-ət, əb-, -ˈdyu̇r-\
Definition of OBDURATE
1a : stubbornly persistent in wrongdoing b : hardened in feelings
2: resistant to persuasion or softening influences
— ob·du·rate·ly adverb
— ob·du·rate·ness noun
See obdurate defined for English-language learners »
See obdurate defined for kids »
Examples of OBDURATE
He is known for his obdurate determination.
<the obdurate refusal of the crotchety old man to let the neighborhood kids retrieve their stray ball from his backyard>
Origin of OBDURATE
Middle English, from Latin obduratus, past participle of obdurare to harden, from ob- against + durus hard — more at during
First Known Use: 15th century

[Ms. Cage]

Not only do they trial with the same dogs on pen raised birds, but they also hunt with the same dogs. Often times they will trial and hunt in the same weekend.

Some do, some say they do. The truth lies some where in the middle.

[Vonzeppelinkennels]

So Bill all the non competitive venues you & the one NSTRA trial you ran in or run your dogs in are on wild birds RIGHT?

[Mountaineer]

It's always sad to see those who complain of folks spouting superiority of choice.....ditto same at every twist and turn.

I pick my dogs as I pick my hunting partners, not for everything that they can do but for everything that they are.

I also pick my dogs are partners, but as tools.

I try to use the best tool for the job.

Some tools are not well suited for many jobs.

The more I read message boards related to birddogs and upland hunting, the more I realize how little I recognize as common and kindred..... and I realize how much I am glad that I don't.

[Gertie]

What I've learned from this thread..........
1. Doug always post the best pictures.
2. If I wasn't to stubborn to own a Britt, Chukar12 and I would get along fantastic!!!
3. That repetition works for training bird dogs, but not BillThomas's

[romeo212000]

I 'm sure many here will agree with this. There seems to be the overwhelming opinion that hunting dogs are second class...that only trialing is the proof of the pudding....and without competition ...well, not worth mentioning!!!

Why do you do this? Are you suggesting that people should trust or believe Bill about his dog or dogs based on his body of work which is just conjecture? I breed, hunt and trial Britts and at one point I decided I wanted some Nolan's Last Bullet blood. I would have loved to be able to watch the dog work wild chukars in Nevada, but Nolan was unwilling to drive 3000 miles to show me even if I was willing to send him $800 for a puppy.

I happen to agree with most all of this but it takes time and committment that most people don't have or are not willing to invest in a dog.

Nolan was known for his ability to scent the 4 wheeling planters at NSTRA.
Im not saying he wasnt a good dog, just sayin.

I require and desire versatility. I dont just hunt birds or just want a dog to point. I need alot more.
Some trial dogs might offer that, some might not. Its just not what I want or need. Ive been there and done that once.

If you knew half of what you say uou know, you would know "Nolan's" name was actually Buddy. His handler & owners name was Nolan. You would also know that most great NSTRA dogs learn to track the bird planters bike. To me that just shows intelligence on the dogs part. I've also taken my limit of wild bobs behind several of those tracking dogs. You would also know Buddy wasnt just an accomplished nstra dog, and Nolan Huffman spends tons of time in wild birds. He spends half the year at his ranch in Montana.

What I see from you is a closed minded meat hunter making same old arguments we've heard thousands of times. However, no matter how many times you make those arguments they still don't hold any more merit.

[asc]

and an occasional boar.

In the south only newbies and wannabes call them boars. Which are you?

[BillThomas]

If you knew half of what you say uou know, you would know "Nolan's" name was actually Buddy. His handler & owners name was Nolan.

I only referred to him as Nolan, because Chukar12 did, mentioning progeny from Nolan. See other thread.

You would also know that most great NSTRA dogs learn to track the bird planters bike.

The very point i Mentioned, but Slistoe called this an insult.
You guys cant make up your minds..

To me that just shows intelligence on the dogs part.

Preceisely what I said.

What I see from you is a closed minded meat hunter making same old arguments we've heard thousands of times.

Could be..what is hunting if not for meat?
You gots to Kill it to grill it, right?

[BillThomas]

and an occasional boar.

In the south only newbies and wannabes call them boars. Which are you?

Im not from the South.
And I try to make sure that others understand my posts, clearly.
Hog, Pig, Swine, or Sau, makes no difference to me.

[Chukar12]

I only referred to him as Nolan, because Chukar12 did, mentioning progeny from Nolan. See otehr thread.

No I said Nolan's Last Bullet ...and that was the dogs registered name his call name was Buddy...

Just as you may call your DD Sgt Schultz or Colonel Klink or something similar while his breed warden name was something else entirely on his pedigree thingy that again you are right i wouldn't understand but in all honesty would probably like to...I just bet I never do though, it will keep getting booted down the priority list.

[BillThomas]

The more I read message boards related to birddogs and upland hunting, the more I realize how little I recognize as common and kindred..... and I realize how much I am glad that I don't.

This board is much more about trialing than it is about hunting, hence the 'kindredless' sensibility..

[BillThomas]

I only referred to him as Nolan, because Chukar12 did, mentioning progeny from Nolan. See otehr thread.

No I said Nolan's Last Bullet ...and that was the dogs registered name his call name was Buddy...

Just as you may call your DD Sgt Schultz or Colonel Klink or something similar while his breed warden name was something else entirely on his pedigree thingy that again you are right i wouldn't understand but in all honesty would probably like to...I just bet I never do though, it will keep getting booted down the priority list.

Would you have me refer to him as Last Bullet?

Nolan seems more appropriate so that is what I called him, if you feel hurt by it, I apologize.

I didnt name my dog, the breeder did.
Benz the name, chosen for the first person to invent the automobile (Karl Benz), but of course, you already knew this.

[Troy08er]

Can some one post the AF/AKC wild bird only field trials. Thanks

[BillThomas]

So Bill all the non competitive venues you & the one NSTRA trial you ran in or run your dogs in are on wild birds RIGHT?

The best trial labs (Vast Majority) that compete in the SRS World Series Retreiver Series, in America, are run to a Standard in UKC Hunt Tests, at least the vast majority of them are.

Id watch how you speak about said tests, unless youve passed one with your dogs, youve not much room to talk.

And yes, Ive run and titled in such tests and proud of the accomplishment of titling.

[Vonzeppelinkennels]

Bill I have not ran my dogs in any tests they are not for me any more then trials are for you but you are the one that keeps bringing up planted bird references.So I figured all the tests & the ONE NSTRA trial must have been on wild birds.& We ALL no that is BS. Remember me Bill from the last time you were here,I'm the guy that rode the short bus that you couldn't find the sidewalk to follow & get on with me???

[Chukar12]

Would you have me refer to him as Last Bullet?

Nolan seems more appropriate so that is what I called him, if you feel hurt by it, I apologize.

I didnt name my dog, the breeder did.
Benz the name, chosen for the first person to invent the automobile (Karl Benz), but of course, you already knew this.

Well sure I am hurt why wouldn't I be ? You see its of extreme importance in a discussion to know that one of the participants who artfully uses second and third hand knowledge to make their point knows the proper spelling, names, titles etc...of the dogs their friend at the club told them about. That seems reasonable doesn't it?

And another issue troubling me is that you have a college education presumably with your athletic prowess and access to higher education via scholarship..."Nolan's" implies ownership ... as in ownersip of the Last Bullet.

...and no I wasnt aware that he first invented the automobile, charming tidbit.

[BillThomas]

Bill I have not ran my dogs in any tests they are not for me any more then trials are for you but you are the one that keeps bringing up planted bird references.So I figured all the tests & the ONE NSTRA trial must have been on wild birds.& We ALL no that is BS. Remember me Bill from the last time you were here,I'm the guy that rode the short bus that you couldn't find the sidewalk to follow & get on with me???

You are doing your best to denigrate any Stardard type testing.

Even those in UKC ranks that the finest Lab Retrievers in America compete in, as majority of them later qualify for the SRS World Series Retreiver Trials.

Surely youve seen them on TV?

Are there more comments on standard testing or does my point come in clearly enough?
Is something lacking in those tests too?


ps (And If you rode on the short bus, its ok. It was a long time ago. I wont hold that against you.)

[BigShooter]

Bill,

Did you ever live in Garrison, ND or was that your twin brother?

[Grange]

Not only do they trial with the same dogs on pen raised birds, but they also hunt with the same dogs. Often times they will trial and hunt in the same weekend.

Some do, some say they do. The truth lies some where in the middle.

If the dog has run it's brace early in the weekend then yes some of the trialers will go hunting. I'm one of them. If I'm going to travel 5 plus hours to go to a trial and I run on a Friday or Saturday morning I'll hit some public land with cover on the way home.

[ultracarry]

Bill what state are you located in? If you want to go hunting in California just met me know. I pay for gas and food. You just have to show up with as many dogs as you would like and ill run my one dog in chukar or quail country for 8 hours. It wouod be easy for you to tell the difference when she won't have her young hanging out when were done for the day and taking pictures

[BillThomas]

Bill what state are you located in? If you want to go hunting in California just met me know. I pay for gas and food. You just have to show up with as many dogs as you would like and ill run my one dog in chukar or quail country for 8 hours. It wouod be easy for you to tell the difference when she won't have her young hanging out when were done for the day and taking pictures

Thank you for the offer, but Im in Ohio and not interested in driving cross country to hunt chukars.

But Youre welcome to come here in January, and Ill take you on the Ohio River hunting geese and ducks. Great shooting. And it doesnt freeze over until its about -20F as it did in 1976.

Or on 2nd thought, You Might want to leave your dogs at home for that one.

But we can hunt coons later that night, and if a bowhunter needs helps, Ill be sure to put your dogs on the call.
It pays $75 and a bonus if we find the deer, least thats what I charge.

[romeo212000]

I only referred to him as Nolan, because Chukar12 did, mentioning progeny from Nolan. See otehr thread.

No I said Nolan's Last Bullet ...and that was the dogs registered name his call name was Buddy...

Just as you may call your DD Sgt Schultz or Colonel Klink or something similar while his breed warden name was something else entirely on his pedigree thingy that again you are right i wouldn't understand but in all honesty would probably like to...I just bet I never do though, it will keep getting booted down the priority list.

Would you have me refer to him as Last Bullet?

Nolan seems more appropriate so that is what I called him, if you feel hurt by it, I apologize.

I didnt name my dog, the breeder did.
Benz the name, chosen for the first person to invent the automobile (Karl Benz), but of course, you already knew this.

I would have preferred you not use examples as though you have first hand knowledge of them when you actually don't. FYI Nolan's last bullet was a horseback champion as well. Just some food for thought.

[BillThomas]

I would have preferred you not use examples as though you have first hand knowledge of them when you actually don't. FYI Nolan's last bullet was a horseback champion as well. Just some food for thought.

Everyone here KNOWS Im not a trialer, like or see the merits in trialing, or espouse trialing.

So How anyone surmises that I speak with first hand knowledge about any trial dogs, is beyond me....

Im glad to hear that Nolan the bullet was also a champion from horseback.

[romeo212000]

I would have preferred you not use examples as though you have first hand knowledge of them when you actually don't. FYI Nolan's last bullet was a horseback champion as well. Just some food for thought.

Everyone here KNOWS Im not a trialer, like or see the merits in trialing, or espouse trialing.

So How anyone surmises that I speak with first hand knowledge about any trial dogs, is beyond me....

Im glad to hear that Nolan the bullet was also a champion from horseback.

Then you probably shouldn't discuss dogs you don't actually have first hand knowledge about. Surely you're just patronizing me with the name now right?

[Mountaineer]

The more I read message boards related to birddogs and upland hunting, the more I realize how little I recognize as common and kindred..... and I realize how much I am glad that I don't.

This board is much more about trialing than it is about hunting, hence the 'kindredless' sensibility..

Nope...I see hunters aplenty here...I read what all say and suggest, hunter or trialer or both, while respecting the experience implicit behind their words.
Agreement may or may not follow.... but what does track solidly along is a sense of caring about dogs above caring about self and agendas....that includes the normal preferences we each hold on dogs or trialing or birds or scatterguns or even ball caps.
The problem for me arises from those few who seek to elevate their preferences by stepping on the head of another's preference...or who cop an attitude toward dogs and hunting which is both saddening and selfish at the core....or for those who seek to dig ever deeper holes in hopes of finding attention.
That attitude strikes me as coming from those for whom the real world has turned a bored or indifferent shoulder and only on the Internet do those folks find someone who will interact with them, their own enablers of a sort...simply put, I sense a lonely soul out for that attention, negative or not.
It is that lonely soul's words and deeds that I do not recognize, with his attitude toward dogs and hunting one that I could never share.
I'm proud of that fact.
As, I believe, so would my dogs be.

[BillThomas]

Then you probably shouldn't discuss dogs you don't actually have first hand knowledge about. Surely you're just patronizing me with the name now right?

Do you guys even know how silly most of you look and sound?

Have you wondered WHY Your sport and numbers are dwindling?
Its because of elitist attitudes that you just demonstrated and are demonstrating.

And the Hunting world has caught on. And most hunters want hunting dogs, NOT trial dogs, or the attitudes that come from those that trial and try to sell them snake oil.
Its not the antis that are your enemies. Its you, yourselves, Youre your own Worst enemies.



For heavens sake...the thread went like this.
Chukar 12 said

I breed, hunt and trial Britts and at one point I decided I wanted some Nolan's Last Bullet blood. I would have loved to be able to watch the dog work wild chukars in Nevada, but Nolan was unwilling to drive 3000 miles to show me even if I was willing to send him $800 for a puppy.

And I said..

Nolan was known for his ability to scent the 4 wheeling planters at NSTRA.
Im not saying he wasnt a good dog, just sayin.

I never said Nolan was known BY Me for his ability to scent, but that he was known for his scenting ability.
I did run in NSTRA, I had discussions with the contestants about some of the better dogs and Ive read forums about Nolan the Britt.
Many folks state his prowess in NSTRA was for tracking the 4 wheelers, Its no secret, and its not first hand knowledge.
Its just well known in many circles among dog men that use 4 wheelers to plant birds.
Its also a compliment TO the dog. Smart, fast and good scenting ability. My DD was a 'terrible' guide dog on preserves that used planters, dog sprinted right to the birds, every time and made for a short hunt.

Im done with your guys.
See where trialing is in 10 years.
Youll be lucky to even have trials the way things are going, mark my words.
If not for hunter enthusaists dropping out, or being turned off, the illogical judging, but mostly the holier than thou elitist attitudes from the contestants/particpants/apologists that turn everyone off, or the costs.

Im just a spectator and dog enthusiast asking you to take a critical look at your sport and method of evaluation for hunting dogs.
Lest it fade away into oblivion and irrelevance, which it Already IS.

[romeo212000]

Then you probably shouldn't discuss dogs you don't actually have first hand knowledge about. Surely you're just patronizing me with the name now right?

Do you guys even know how silly most of you look and sound?

Have you wondered WHY Your sport and numbers are dwindling?
Its because of elitist attitudes that you just demonstrated.

And the Hunting world has caught on.
Its not the antis that are your enemies. Its you, yourselves, Youre your own Worst enemies.



For heavens sake...the thread went like this.
Chukar 12 said

I breed, hunt and trial Britts and at one point I decided I wanted some Nolan's Last Bullet blood. I would have loved to be able to watch the dog work wild chukars in Nevada, but Nolan was unwilling to drive 3000 miles to show me even if I was willing to send him $800 for a puppy.

And I said..

Nolan was known for his ability to scent the 4 wheeling planters at NSTRA.
Im not saying he wasnt a good dog, just sayin.

I never said Nolan was known BY Me for his ability to scent, but that he was known for his scenting ability.
I did run in NSTRA, I had discussions with the contestants about some of the better dogs and Ive read forums about Nolan the Britt.
Many folks state his prowess in NSTRA was for tracking the 4 wheelers, Its no secret, and its not first hand knowledge.
Its just well known in many circles among dog men that use 4 wheelers to plant birds.
Its also a compliment TO the dog. Smart, fast and good scenting ability.

Im done with your guys.
See where trialing is in 10 years.
Youll be lucky to even have trials the way things are going, mark my words.
If not for hunter enthusaists dropping out, or being turned off, the illogical judging, but mostly the holier than thou elitist attitudes from the contestants/particpants/apologists that turn everyone off, or the costs.

Im just a spectator and dog enthusiast asking you to take a critical look at your sport and method of evaluation for hunting dogs.
Lest it fade away into oblivion and irrelevance, which it Already IS.

Boy you just keep running your mouth about things you have little to no first hand knowledge of don't you? Now who has the elitist attitude? I'm quite certain nstra and other venues will be around in 10 years with or without your help.

By the way. May I ask why you only chose to participate in one nstra trial since you place so much importance on finding birds?

[ultracarry]

Interesting bill because you posted a picture of a dog with a couple of chukar??? Now you take credit for other peoples dogs? Stay classy

Maybe if you posted your own pics it would have more merit .

[BillThomas]

Boy you just keep running your mouth about things you have little to no first hand knowledge of don't you? ?

NEWSFLASH..I never ran against Buddy, Nolan, Nolan the bullet or Nolan the Britt.
I only read and heard tell of him. And those that use lots of planted birds from 4 wheelers.
That suit you and answer your question?

Now who has the elitist attitude?

Let the readers decide.

I'm quite certain nstra and other venues will be around in 10 years with or without your help.

Most horseback and AA trialers turn their nose down at NSTRA.
If you think differently, youre being dishonest with yourself.

By the way. May I ask why you only chose to participate in one nstra trial since you place so much importance on finding birds?

Sure.
Because I matched finds with the top dog in the region, (Actually outfound him except for a wild flush), a 4x Champion and progeny of a NSTRA Runner Up Dog of the Year..
1 event was enough, my dog proved what it could do what I thought it could.
I then went and trained with LAB HRC Retrieving guys on the way home with the same dog, pretty cool if you ask me.

Additionally, my dog is Not AKC, and getting into the whole German registry with trial officals over breed name, is not something I want to do again.
Its also true in NAVHDA and AKC events.

[Jakezilla]

Holy crap Bill are you still flapping your gums? What's with the chip on your shoulder? Did a field trialer push you down and steal your lunch money or something?