should have kept her...

[cgbirddogs]

You never know which one of the litter is going to be "THE" one until you get that phone call...."is it normal for a
7 month old pup to be ranging out 800 yards?...". I just smiled to myself and thought ""bleep"! Should have kept that one!"

[bb560m]

I thought all pointers did that?

[Ralph Ford]

Who wants a 7 month old pup ranging 800 yards anyway. You did good to sell it!

[SCT]

I do!

[Sharon]

Too funny CG.

[brad27]

Who wants a 7 month old pup ranging 800 yards anyway. You did good to sell it!

Depends on what he is looking for in a dog.

[dezasterous gundogs]

you got to cut some of theme loose but I hear you, going to be a nice little shooting dog though. I just had a litter and they all look =ed so good so I kept 3 out of 6.

[Dieseldog8]

Haha now if the dog makes something of itself you can just be like "Yea he came from my dog".

[ultracarry]

you got to cut some of theme loose but I hear you, going to be a nice little shooting dog though. I just had a litter and they all look =ed so good so I kept 3 out of 6.

Really, only three dogs? Better make some room before you breed Java.... You want all age right?

[Ralph Ford]

Who wants a 7 month old pup ranging 800 yards anyway. You did good to sell it!

Depends on what he is looking for in a dog.

If that purchaser was looking for that kind of dog, he wouldn't be calling asking about it. Chalk up another one sold again as a 'started' dog.

[Kmack]

Who wants a 7 month old pup ranging 800 yards anyway. You did good to sell it!

Depends on what he is looking for in a dog.

If that purchaser was looking for that kind of dog, he wouldn't be calling asking about it. Chalk up another one sold again as a 'started' dog.

Then how did he do good to sell it? I'm confused.

Seller let a potential good one get away to a customer, who by your evaluation, will be unhappy with the dog.

I don't see how anybody "did good".

[Francois P vd Walt]

Maybe I am missing something here ?

Breeder should be happy if he gets the result he was wanting, hopefully still has the sire + dam to breed for himself if the litter was that hot ! Good mating !


Well done he will be a happy hunter if he can handle the speed !

[tommyboy72]

It could be worse. You could have done what I did.

I gave my best friend JCButtry on this site a pup. She has been excelling on the east coast in AF and AKC trials both puppy, derby, horseback and walking trials, everyone on the east coast including some prominent professionals and trainers love her, Joe has had several substantial offers to buy the pup even though she is only a year old and she has been competing with and beating much older dogs and I had her dam spayed due to some hormonal issues she was having during the weaning stage and her next heat cycle that were adversely affecting her behavior. Most of the other pups in the litter I have been hearing really excellent comments on and I can't even conduct another breeding out of that sire and dam. At least you still have the sire and dam to perform another breeding and perhaps have the opportunity to keep the good one next time. Look at the positive side of it. My positive side is I still have the stud dog intact and Joe is giving that pup an opportunity I never could because of where I live (very far from the nearest trial circuit) and lack of financial means. The fact that someone I consider a brother is doing so well with a pup I bred gives me great pleasure and I get the chance to live vicariously through his achievments with the pup.

[cgbirddogs]

Who wants a 7 month old pup ranging 800 yards anyway. You did good to sell it!

Depends on what he is looking for in a dog.

If that purchaser was looking for that kind of dog, he wouldn't be calling asking about it. Chalk up another one sold again as a 'started' dog.

This pup was sold at 8 weeks. Wow @ the cynicism!

[Ralph Ford]

I wouldn't call it cynicism at all, not even close. My first comment represents everyone I know who has bird dogs. Nobody wants an 800 yd. pup. Every one of the people I know who have bird dogs would consider 800 yds. in a pup a run off pup.
The second comment I made was making an assumption, which was that your customer wasn't calling to ask if 800 yds. being normal was a situation that he considered too short. I assumed if he was calling you, he didn't know. If he didn't know, he must be a newbie. Newbies freak out at 800 yd. ranges. Maybe I made too many assumptions, but I bet not. I will go one step further and say that I bet I'm right and that pup won't be a good match for the fella, and it will be on Gundog Central before you know it.
Well, maybe a little cynicism.

[brad27]

Who wants a 7 month old pup ranging 800 yards anyway. You did good to sell it!

Depends on what he is looking for in a dog.

If that purchaser was looking for that kind of dog, he wouldn't be calling asking about it. Chalk up another one sold again as a 'started' dog.

How's about reading the title of this thread. Has nothing to do with the buyer. :roll:

[Ralph Ford]

How's about reading the title of this thread. Has nothing to do with the buyer. :roll:[/quote]

Sure, ok. How about this then, CG, stay in contact with that fella, I bet you will have an opportunity to get him back.

[brad27]

How's about reading the title of this thread. Has nothing to do with the buyer. :roll:

Sure, ok. How about this then, CG, stay in contact with that fella, I bet you will have an opportunity to get him back.[/quote]
That is a great idea.

[cgbirddogs]

I'm watching for that phone call like a chicken watches for a hawk! I sure will buy her back if she proves too much for him. Not his first bird dog, but his first pointer. This was her two weeks before he took her home.

[ElhewPointer]

I wouldn't call it cynicism at all, not even close. My first comment represents everyone I know who has bird dogs. Nobody wants an 800 yd. pup. Every one of the people I know who have bird dogs would consider 800 yds. in a pup a run off pup.
The second comment I made was making an assumption, which was that your customer wasn't calling to ask if 800 yds. being normal was a situation that he considered too short. I assumed if he was calling you, he didn't know. If he didn't know, he must be a newbie. Newbies freak out at 800 yd. ranges. Maybe I made too many assumptions, but I bet not. I will go one step further and say that I bet I'm right and that pup won't be a good match for the fella, and it will be on Gundog Central before you know it.
Well, maybe a little cynicism.

You need to know more people then. I'd take that all day long. And that is no run off.

[bossman]

Looks like your doing just what you should be doing. The dog can always be trained to "shorten-up" if thats the owners desire. Would love to see pictures of that little fella. I would guess there is lots of open country where the owner lives.. good luck. I hope in the not to distant future he will be calling about a beautiful "limb find". All jmo.

[jcbuttry8]

Man you guys breeding those crappy run off puppies. You should be ashamed to sell such a pup to someone. Listen, If he feels that the pup is to much for him, I will offer up a charitable sum of $ 100 to help out and take it off his hands. That little pup would look good right next to Kona's pen. I promise to feed it good, and find a few places to let it run off from time to time.

Joe

[RayGubernat]

I guess I'm not on the same page with some of you folks. If a seven month old pointer AIN"T capable of moving out to a half mile in the right terrain...it ain't my kind of dog. I WANT a dog that has the pysical ability and the mental independence to fade out to the front in search of game. I also want it towant to hunt with me and for me enough to come back around and check in with me on a semi regular basis.

There is a HUGE difference between a dog that ranges out to a half mile while hunting with you and for you...and a dog that runs out to a half mile just to hear the winmd whistle beneath its ears. The first one is a hunting dog that you can take hunting just about anywhere, and the second one needs an attitude adjustment.

Just because a dog is ready, willing and able to run out a half mile(or more) from you does not mean that it must, or should do that each and every time you put the dog in the field. There are times, there are situations and there are conditions where a dog should and indeed must hunt closer.

However, if the dog is either physically or mentally unable to hunt at extended ranges when the conditions call for it...the hunter has handicapped themselves.

Just one man's opinion. Hunt with what you like...I do.

RayG

RayG

[GrayDawg]

My first comment represents everyone I know who has bird dogs. Nobody wants an 800 yd. pup. Every one of the people I know who have bird dogs would consider 800 yds. in a pup a run off pup.

Then my only comment is this........... you need to get out more and meet some new "bird dog" people. I would LOVE a pup who was making 800 yard casts and I know better than to think a pup is a run off if they are using the wind, their nose, running with animation & independence and LISTENING to their handler.

Your "bird dog" friends must run spaniels!

Rob

[Ralph Ford]

Well, I guess I now know where to unload run-off dogs. I usually give them away, or let them run off. To me, the fellas that talk about the physical ability to run a 1/2 mile ahead, the mental capacity to use the wind, as long as they are hunting for you, and the best one, as long as they are listening, can't be taken seriously at all. Pure idealistic gum flapping. Especially the east coast guys hunting put-n-take birds. :roll:

[kylenicholas02]

Well, I guess I now know where to unload run-off dogs. I usually give them away, or let them run off. To me, the fellas that talk about the physical ability to run a 1/2 mile ahead, the mental capacity to use the wind, as long as they are hunting for you, and the best one, as long as they are listening, can't be taken seriously at all. Pure idealistic gum flapping. Especially the east coast guys hunting put-n-take birds. :roll:

Ralph,

I think you are off by making assumptions about a breeder or dog you have never seen. Yes, to certain pointer guys who can't stay with the dog either by foot or horse/4-wheeler or dont have the trust in their dog that might be considered a "run-off."

In fact, there's a group of us that live and train just about 5-8 miles east of Greenwood, who run dogs all the time that range 800+ yards under certain conditions. And contrary to your belief, a dog can range 800 yards in this neck of the woods.

Still dont believe it? How is it that Nathan Phillips of Evansville and Ike Todd/Keith Wright of Covington continuously produce dogs of all-age championship status?
And I anticipate that you will rebuttal that the dog is a "pup." Yes, in most terminology you are correct, but the people I listed just above who breed countless of dogs each year look for that range out of a 7-month old "pup." If not, it is likely sold to someone who desires less range out of a dog.

My point... The qualities of a ideal bird dog are different for each individual. I have a few in my kennel that would scare tons when I let them loose. I'm sure of this, because I've seen it first hand. That dog that might scare you, makes my heart pump like none other, and I would pay a lot of $$$ to duplicate. CG is trying to produce that all-age caliber dog. And in his neck of the woods, 800 yards is the neighbors house if he's lucky.

It's like the deck business. What you consider to be the best looking, highest quality deck may be perceived by others differently.

I hope you see my point. I'd love to share the passion sometime, and possibly have you quote replacing my back deck

[ElhewPointer]

Ralph, your profile "occupation" says it for me.

memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=14762

[brad27]

Ralph, your profile "occupation" says it for me.

memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=14762

[RayGubernat]

Well, I guess I now know where to unload run-off dogs. I usually give them away, or let them run off. To me, the fellas that talk about the physical ability to run a 1/2 mile ahead, the mental capacity to use the wind, as long as they are hunting for you, and the best one, as long as they are listening, can't be taken seriously at all. Pure idealistic gum flapping. Especially the east coast guys hunting put-n-take birds. :roll:

Sounds good to me... except that it ain't just talk when you can do it and have done it.

From an east coast guy who hunts and trials(on foot and horseback)... put and take birds over (what some folks might call) runoff dogs.

Have a wonderful day.

RayG

[Ralph Ford]

Kyle,
It's nice to hear from another Hoosier, especially one that lives so close. How you knew I was in the deck building biz amazes me.
First off, I never had any intention for my posts to imply anything negative about CG as a breeder. I do think though that foot hunters that purchase pups from AA horseback breeders are many times making a mistake. I have seen it too many times. I have been to Nathan's before. Bought a couple of pups from him. Bought them for the sole purpose of seeing what the buzz is about. Even at his place, a 1/2 mile is bigger than his dogs ran. I don't have those pups anymore, as you would probably guess.
I've been running bird dogs too long to let range scare me. I just don't see any value in it.
I understand that the AA game requires long range to be successful. That is their game, so be it.
Maybe you and I could head down to Atterbury, Goose pond, or even up to the Sands sometime. I would like to see a half mile dog run under control. I have to say though, until I see it with my own two eyes, I'm more than skeptical that the scenario that Ray describes is anything more than wishful thinking.
I'm not kidding either about getting together, except for right now, which this is our 'Christmas rush' time of year at work, I run dogs multiple times per week. Ring me up. 889-3634

[Ralph Ford]

Ralph, your profile "occupation" says it for me.

memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=14762

Yeah, me too. I laughed when I typed that in.
You know fellas, I have a good time on this forum, and mainly another forum. I recognize that there are many fellas that devote more time to bird dogs than I, but I devote far more time than average. If there is one shortcoming that I recognize when it comes to a national audience, it is that I don't travel too terribly far out of my region. I have never been to a horseback trial. I don't think they even have them in Indiana any longer. I pay that no mind though, it is a small group in the scope of 'gundog forum participants'. I like looking in on Calloway's 'Field trial' site. I'm not even registered to comment, as I know I would have zero to offer. In the same breath, I sometimes wonder if a field trialers perspective is of value on a gundog forum.

[ACooper]

My first comment represents everyone I know who has bird dogs. Nobody wants an 800 yd. pup. Every one of the people I know who have bird dogs would consider 800 yds. in a pup a run off pup.

Then my only comment is this........... you need to get out more and meet some new "bird dog" people. I would LOVE a pup who was making 800 yard casts and I know better than to think a pup is a run off if they are using the wind, their nose, running with animation & independence and LISTENING to their handler.

Your "bird dog" friends must run spaniels!

Rob

These comments are almost as large a load of crap as what Ralph has posted.

[kylenicholas02]

Well, I guess I now know where to unload run-off dogs. I usually give them away, or let them run off. To me, the fellas that talk about the physical ability to run a 1/2 mile ahead, the mental capacity to use the wind, as long as they are hunting for you, and the best one, as long as they are listening, can't be taken seriously at all. Pure idealistic gum flapping. Especially the east coast guys hunting put-n-take birds. :roll:

Sounds good to me... except that it ain't just talk when you can do it and have done it.

From an east coast guy who hunts and trials(on foot and horseback)... put and take birds over (what some folks might call) runoff dogs.

Have a wonderful day.

RayG

Ray,
Being the intelligent gentleman you are, I assume you know that bird numbers in this area of the midwest are so low, even the DNR releases birds for Put-N-Take hunts... And if you have any intention of having a "broke" bird dog in this area, you HAVE to purchase birds to train/hunt with. The only "wild" birds in this area are the ones we've flown over the dogs and not shot... Those "wild" birds just never made it back to our johnny houses.

[kylenicholas02]

[quote="Ralph Ford"]Kyle,
It's nice to hear from another Hoosier, especially one that lives so close. How you knew I was in the deck building biz amazes me.
/quote]


Google: Ralph Ford Greenwood Indiana

[jetjockey]

CG... I was in the same boat as you in the fall of 2010. My brittany was running GD trials with the trainer and doing a pretty nice job. I think he wanted me to leave her with him full time so they offered me a 4 month old pup they nicknamed "Midge" because she looked like a midget at 4 months old. She had a huge heart and loved birds, but the trainer didn't think she would grow enough to trial and he had to get rid of a few dogs. He thought she would be a great hunting dog for me when my other brit was on the circuit during hunting season. As much as I wanted to bring her home I just couldn't make it work, so I did the next best thing and called my dad in Seattle and asked him if he wanted a dog. A few weeks later I was delivering his 4 month old brit to him during our anual SD hunting trip. Since everyone thought she was going to be really small and wouldn't make a great trial dog, my dad had her spayed since he had no intention of breeding her.

Now, fast forward to last summer a month after my dad had dropped her off with the same trainer for summer camp back in SD. I get a call from the trainer and all he can keep saying is that she is AWESOME! Ive never heard him get really excited about a dog, but he did with her. Midge grew up to be about 32lbs of ALL LEGS!! He was running her off horse and out of his truck and she was perfectly happy at 800+ yards off the Garmin...... And she was going with him and not just running off. Add in the fact that she was pointing birds from 30+ yards at times and looked like a million bucks on point, and both the trainer and I were beginning to feel like we let one slip away. All my dad wanted was a hunting dog that he could foot hunt with for pheasants and quail back in WA, yet he got a dog that would have been an amazing AA brittany that ran a true SD or AA brace. She was with the trainer for 2 months and when my dad got her back home she was broke to wing, backing, stopping to flush, and retrieving birds to his feet. Plus she was running a nice gun dog distance perfectly happy 100-200 yards out off foot. However, my dad also realizes what she is, and if she isn't finding birds when they are hunting, she WILL go find them! We hunted her last fall in SD a few months after camp and she was great, and OMG what a nose! She turned out to be one of the best young dogs I think my trainer has ever seen. Yet she's just a hunting dog that likes to sit in the front of my dads boat when he is salmon fishing........ And it KILLS me!

[Francois P vd Walt]

Always good to read from all over the world !

I have a Gsp male in S. Africa the first time I let him go in a open terrain he ran 600m before he turned his head the first time, he since when we hunt open farm land he ranges out to 800m if the terrain allows it. I must add the farm is about 50 miles one way and 60 miles other way. With many wild birds we only train and hunt wild birds.(lucky) He has since learned when the terrain doesn't allow it he stays closer and make sure he sees me when it is open and he can see me from a mile he hunts out there.

We only hunt on foot here, a ranging dog that is not totally independant is ok !

If you don't mind shipping it to South Arica I will let him run all he wants, we start 6am break 12pm and hunt from 2pm till sun sets ..... he can run as long as he finds birds he can run !

[cgbirddogs]

No offense taken to any of your comments Mr. Ford. BTW, very nice looking pups in your avatar. I would not consider myself a field trial breeder, although i am not surprised when i hear my dogs compete well and win. Ia all in all, nothing tickles my fancy like a big running, stylish pointing, shooting dog, which is what I strive for.

[GrayDawg]

My first comment represents everyone I know who has bird dogs. Nobody wants an 800 yd. pup. Every one of the people I know who have bird dogs would consider 800 yds. in a pup a run off pup.

Then my only comment is this........... you need to get out more and meet some new "bird dog" people. I would LOVE a pup who was making 800 yard casts and I know better than to think a pup is a run off if they are using the wind, their nose, running with animation & independence and LISTENING to their handler.

Your "bird dog" friends must run spaniels!

Rob

These comments are almost as large a load of crap as what Ralph has posted.

Coop,
I take it you have friends who own Spaniels?

Rob