How much harder would it be?

[shaneroyce]

I have been looking for a good EP or GSP pup to hunt chukar, pheasant, and quail over. This would be my first time training a pointer from start to finish. I've trained some labs well enough to foot hunt pheasants over (or at least bring along without causing too much trouble), but am very much a rookie. I have been given some great leads on some nice EP and GSP pups and upcoming litters from many on this forum...thanks. My original thought was to get a pup and follow a method (Delmar Smith maybe) in training my pup. I have a guy near me that has an 11 month old EP that is bred to the gills. He says he started him young, joined a the GSPC club in our area, and was bringing the pup on nicely until this fall. He says that he hunted over him a little this fall, but hasn't done much with him the last 4 months or so. He is put together well, is full of energy (like one might expect from a pup that hasn't been worked much the last few months, but seemed like he didn't know basic commands (very quick look at the dog and his papers). The guy has a job that takes him out of state and away from his family, and he's giving up the hunting dog thing. He's willing to give me this pup. My question is this...would I be getting in over my head on a dog like this, or is he worth taking a look at? Remember that I'm a long-time hunter but rookie dog trainer. Or, would I be much further ahead by getting a young one and starting with a blank slate. I do not want this to be an EP vs. GSP question, rather an 11 month old pointer that I don't know much about and that may or may not be being represented correctly vs. a young pup that I don't know much about either other than breeding. Please chime in as I need to make a decision on this dog soon. Thanks in advance and I look forward to your thoughts.

[Benny]

A head start dog is nothing difficult to deal with. Depends on your needs for the dog, but if the training the dog is receiving is in line with the training you will continue I wouldn't think there should be any problems.

It would help for you to spend whatever time the owner has left working with him and the dog. You could learn a ton from him before he gives it up, and also learn the techniques for training that have been used on the pup so far.

Sounds like you've been handed a gift!

[ultracarry]

What kind of pointer? Is it a pointer pointer with high tail and thin or is it a big pointer with a flat wavy tail, block head and goofey looking? Where are you located? What's the breeding? What does the dog do? Steady to shot, flush, rip out birds? What are your goals? Need a little more info.

[shaneroyce]

If you go to pinehillkennels.com and look under stud dogs, his dad is Stagecoach Jack and his mom is Pinehill Elhew Cover Girl. There are pictures and pedigrees of both of them on the site. He looks like those dogs and is intact. The guy that has the dog had him shipped here to Idaho when he was 7 - 8 weeks old and worked with him for about 4 - 5 months with some guys at the GSPC here. He said he holds point well, but is not steady to flush. He said the dog will range out to maybe 100 - 200 yards and look back to see where he is and stays in about that range or closer (this was when he hunted him this fall). He said he comes well and has a great nose. He said the dog has been shot over and when I asked about how he retrieves he said he has played around with him some and he likes it (I am assuming frozen birds or dummies as he mentioned that in our conversations). Again, none of this is verified, and I don't know that I would be able to get time where we could go out together to watch the dog work (he is working out of state regularly). I would basically be getting this dog blind and hoping that he is good to continue with. He is crate trained and sleeps in the house every night in his crate. When he needs to do his business, he whines and they take him outside to do that. He did not heel the dog when I saw him and did not let him off the leash. The dog was pulling on that leash real hard as my kids and I were looking at him, but he also has been stuck in a back yard for about 4 months without getting in the field. That's about all I know. He wanted some money for the dog, but after meeting me and my family, he said that he would like to see him go to a good home rather than take money and not know where he's headed FWIW. What are your thoughts.

[Cajun Casey]

I think other than, "Here," and, "Quiet," I don't mess much with dogs under a year old. Sounds like a good deal with a dog that is old enough to take some training.

[ymepointer]

Sounds like it could be a great deal. I would check that pup out for sure. I would ask how he is in the house kennel. Is he a digger??? Does he bark his head off or is he pretty quiet? etc etc.

[shaneroyce]

They said he is a perfect gentleman in the house kennel and stays in there quiet (unless he has to go outside for his "business", in which case he will whine a little to let you know in the night). They said he stays in the kennel until 9 or 10 am every morning at which point I believe they let him out in the back yard for the day. I don't know if he's a digger, but can check that out by looking at his back yard. Any big red flags I should look for when watching this guy handle the dog in his back yard tomorrow morning? Is there a way to test for gun shyness without shooting a gun in a subdivision. He does have some frozen birds available if you think there would be any value in using them. Keep the thoughts coming. Thanks everyone.

[ymepointer]

you can bang some metal pans together, grab a few sheet pans from your pantry and bang um together while the pup is running around.

[shaneroyce]

By the way, he did say something to the effect of, "He's a great dog that was coming along really well and then I had to start working out of state and not spending much time working with him the last 4-5 months. You'll probably be a little frustrated at first because when I come home and work with him it feels a lot like we are starting over constantly, but if you'll just work with him steady for a couple months he'll be right on track. I wish I could keep him, but I don't have the time to spend with him that he deserves and he is too good to not be hunting. I really want him to go do what he was bred to do". The guy seems genuine and honest, but I don't know him at all. He said he would show me how he handles for him. I would be surprised if I am amazed at his handle based on how full of energy he was when I saw him the other night. When I say handle, I mean basic commands with any frozen bird or dummy work that you all would recommend. Keep the opinions coming...they are extremely valuable.

[shaneroyce]

What kind of pointer? Is it a pointer pointer with high tail and thin or is it a big pointer with a flat wavy tail, block head and goofey looking? Where are you located? What's the breeding? What does the dog do? Steady to shot, flush, rip out birds? What are your goals? Need a little more info.

Just curious because I've always owned labs and shorthairs. What exactly do you mean by the 1st portion of this comment (the looks part)? What should I look for. English Pointers are not as popular here as GSP's, so I don't see many in person to compare to. As to the second portion of the comment, I can ask these questions, but would have to take his word on the answers. He does sound like he was coming along nice but is pretty "green" now due to lack of training recently as has been mentioned. Thanks.

[ymepointer]

That sounds good. If the pup seems pretty obedient and shows some interest retrieving a dummy or frozen bird, is healthy and you like him and are willing to put some time in training that pup daily it could be a Great deal. I would certainly suggest you go take a hard look at the opportunity for sure. Ultra was wondering if it was a show pointer as apposed to a field bred pointer I think

[ACooper]

What kind of pointer? Is it a pointer pointer with high tail and thin or is it a big pointer with a flat wavy tail, block head and goofey looking? Where are you located? What's the breeding? What does the dog do? Steady to shot, flush, rip out birds? What are your goals? Need a little more info.

Just curious because I've always owned labs and shorthairs. What exactly do you mean by the 1st portion of this comment (the looks part)? What should I look for. English Pointers are not as popular here as GSP's, so I don't see many in person to compare to. As to the second portion of the comment, I can ask these questions, but would have to take his word on the answers. He does sound like he was coming along nice but is pretty "green" now due to lack of training recently as has been mentioned. Thanks.

Based on the breeding you gave you answered his question and sounds like you are on the verge of a great deal for you and the dog.

Ultra was concerned it might be an AKC show type pointer.

[shaneroyce]

What kind of pointer? Is it a pointer pointer with high tail and thin or is it a big pointer with a flat wavy tail, block head and goofey looking? Where are you located? What's the breeding? What does the dog do? Steady to shot, flush, rip out birds? What are your goals? Need a little more info.

Just curious because I've always owned labs and shorthairs. What exactly do you mean by the 1st portion of this comment (the looks part)? What should I look for. English Pointers are not as popular here as GSP's, so I don't see many in person to compare to. As to the second portion of the comment, I can ask these questions, but would have to take his word on the answers. He does sound like he was coming along nice but is pretty "green" now due to lack of training recently as has been mentioned. Thanks.

Based on the breeding you gave you answered his question and sounds like you are on the verge of a great deal for you and the dog.

Ultra was concerned it might be an AKC show type pointer.

Gotcha...thanks for the replies. What other thoughts do people have? How would this compare (with the limited info you have) to getting a 7 week old pup and starting from scratch? Any other thoughts are greatly appreciated. I eventually want to hunt over a pair with my kids, so the 7 week old pup would come in a couple of years after this one was hopefully going great (that would be the plan anyway).

[2renegades]

pm me ,I would chat with you about the dog.

[shaneroyce]

I picked this pup up tonight. The owner is a stand-up guy and definitely understated the dog. He was very bummed to see him go, but knew it was best for the dog. This pup's going to be fine. I will need much more training than this dog ever will! I'll keep everyone posted on how he's coming along and do my best to get some good tips from you all when I need them. Thanks for all of your replies and PM's. They really helped with my decision. I'm tickled with the dog and the kids are ecstatic. Thanks again, Shane.

[rinker]

It sounds like a great deal to me. Yes, there is some risk that there is some underlying problem that the owner isn't telling you or isn't aware of, but puppies are a risk also. If there is some kind of problem with this dog, you will know it in 30 days, probably a lot sooner, and your total expense will be a bag of dog food. If you bought an eight week old puppy like this it would cost you $500, plus transportation, plus puppy shots, the list goes on and on, and it would take you six to eighteen months to know if it had some kind of problem.

[C.painter]

Good luck with the pup! Post a pic if you get a chance, would love to see it. Also keep us posted on how it turns out.

cory

[BrassVols]

Sounds like you just got a heckuva good deal. Congrats!
Post a pic and keep us updated on your progress.

[shaneroyce]

Here's a pic of the pup when we were working him for the 1st time on some planted pigeons. I really like the dog! My progress with him is posted in the training forum with some questions. I would love to hear your thoughts on the training questions I just posted. Thanks again for everyone's help.

[DonF]

I bet that is a nice pup. Can't tell though because the picture is to big and all I have is yellow grass.

[shaneroyce]

Sorry...I've moved the picture to my avatar.

[jcbuttry8]

Good luck, but it looks like the slate you are starting with is a very good one. That is a great looking pup. Good breeding. Just go slow and take your time.

Have alot of fun,

Joe