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Post by bigsugar » Thu Jan 12, 2012 9:02 pm

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Re: AKC "Champions"

Post by kninebirddog » Thu Jan 12, 2012 9:05 pm

?

A CH on an AKC pedigree is a showring title

a Championship win is a NFC NAFC NGDC NAGDC ie National Field Champion National AMateur Field Champion National Gundog Champion or National Amateur Gundog Champion

A DC is where a dog has championed in the field and the show ring
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Re: AKC "Champions"

Post by brad27 » Thu Jan 12, 2012 9:15 pm

I think this is one of the reasons that AKC "champions" are thought of in a lesser light by some then American Field champions.
I think the other reason is because those people think their game is better than someone elses.

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Re: AKC "Champions"

Post by Cajun Casey » Thu Jan 12, 2012 9:17 pm

Really? :roll:
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Re: AKC "Champions"

Post by ElhewPointer » Thu Jan 12, 2012 9:19 pm

brad27 wrote:
I think this is one of the reasons that AKC "champions" are thought of in a lesser light by some then American Field champions.
I think the other reason is because those people think their game is better than someone elses.

I don't think so actually. I know quite a few guys that play both AKC and AF with the same dogs. They covet the 1 hr championships quite a bit more.

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Re: AKC "Champions"

Post by bigsugar » Thu Jan 12, 2012 9:22 pm

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Re: AKC "Champions"

Post by brad27 » Thu Jan 12, 2012 10:04 pm

ElhewPointer wrote:
brad27 wrote:
I think this is one of the reasons that AKC "champions" are thought of in a lesser light by some then American Field champions.
I think the other reason is because those people think their game is better than someone elses.

I don't think so actually. I know quite a few guys that play both AKC and AF with the same dogs. They covet the 1 hr championships quite a bit more.
Sure, a national is better then a regional. Does that lessen the accomplishment of the FC?

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Re: AKC "Champions"

Post by ezzy333 » Thu Jan 12, 2012 10:05 pm

So why do you think only good dogs run in an AF trial and only poor ones run AKC? Field trials are about the only sport gpomg where you only need to win one game to be crowned Champion.

Seems to me they are different rules is all and the dogs don't even know the difference.

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Re: AKC "Champions"

Post by postoakshorthairs » Thu Jan 12, 2012 10:15 pm

I don't care one way or another
Then why start the thread? Don't think there aren't some AF champions that won against a lesser field or had their one shining day in a designated "championship"... I know of a couple myself. I don't actively compete in any format regularly but ive been to most types and can see the positives and negatives to all. You might not think of the AKC FC highly but i guarantee the owners are proud of the accomplishment. This is just another example of someone who thinks their game is better so they run another's down.

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Re: AKC "Champions"

Post by Vision » Thu Jan 12, 2012 10:17 pm

bigsugar wrote:Anyone else find it strange that you can achieve a "champion" title in the AKC without ever winning a championship? I have often wondered this. I think this is one of the reasons that AKC "champions" are thought of in a lesser light by some then American Field champions.
NO. I think it sad you can win unlimited weekend shooting dog stakes in AF with the same dog and never get a title, or any kind of recognition unless you win a championship stake.

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Re: AKC "Champions"

Post by kninebirddog » Thu Jan 12, 2012 10:20 pm

I was just helping out at an hour western Championship that was AKC and AF sanctioned and not all the dogs were Championed but they did have to have a win in the previous year to qualify

and PS I am well aware of what it takes for a dog to earn an FC title in AKC
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Re: AKC "Champions"

Post by doco » Thu Jan 12, 2012 10:27 pm

bigsugar wrote:I think to be a champion you should have to win a championship against other good dogs. In a championship trial you are running against better competition then a weekend trial.
If I am not mistaken, in AF in order for the stake to be a championship, it must have a minimum of 12 dogs. So one win in a twelve dog stake qualifies the dog to be titled a Champion. The accumulation of points in an AKC title must include wins and a Major win in a stake of more than 13 dogs. Somewhere the line has to be drawn. I won a 38 dog AKC Open Gun Dog Stake. Was that enough good dogs to qualify her as a Champion?

And, for those of us GSP'ers, the retrieving points need to be almost half of those points. It is a heck of alot easier to train and break dogs if we didn't have to train to retreive. A whole new can of worms is about to open up when I say how easy it is to break dogs that are not required to retrieve. My EP buddies all brag how their dogs have never touched a bird, let alone retreive one, and never will! My new string of pups were retreiving beer cans at 7 weeks old. Guess what they'll never touch until their first retrieving stake? A luxury for me, but a heck of a heartache for alot of other folks that aren't as lucky. I wonder how many AF dogs would stay broke if they were required to finish the job of a complete hunting dog. I'm not coming down on the AF because I can't wait to run a few CH stakes. They are just not that handy or close for me.

On the other hand, I don't think that it is fair to not give credence to the amount of work it takes to put an AKC FC on a dog either. Maybe the AF should require 3 wins and 2 placements in weekend stakes to qualify for a CH Stake instead of one lucky win for the title.

Just another point of view. Not necessarily a good one or one I believe in, but it is just as jaded as saying beat 12 good dogs and you're a CH.
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Re: AKC "Champions"

Post by CherrystoneWeims » Fri Jan 13, 2012 12:09 am

Amen, Doco! On top of that a Weimaraner also must pass a water test.
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Re: AKC "Champions"

Post by shags » Fri Jan 13, 2012 6:17 am

bigsugar wrote:Anyone else find it strange that you can achieve a "champion" title in the AKC without ever winning a championship? I have often wondered this. I think this is one of the reasons that AKC "champions" are thought of in a lesser light by some then American Field champions.
Yes! And everyone who runs AKC dogs should just either put those crappy mutts down or drop them off at a shelter today and not a minute later! Why even feed an AKC FC since they are thought of in a lesser light by some And all those subpar AKC trials should be cancelled immediately in order to free up grounds for more real trials! With more grounds available, there could be more legitimate championship trials every weekend! Woo-hoo! With a bunch more championship trials, there ought to be some 12 dog entries where the best of the best could get the recognition they deserve!

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Why don't y'all come stick it to us. Bring on your world beaters and hand us our butts. Then maybe your diminishment of other folks' accomplishments, and their dogs, would be legitimate.

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Re: AKC "Champions"

Post by Greg Jennings » Fri Jan 13, 2012 7:41 am

bigsugar wrote:Anyone else find it strange that you can achieve a "champion" title in the AKC without ever winning a championship? I have often wondered this. I think this is one of the reasons that AKC "champions" are thought of in a lesser light by some then American Field champions.
The "my <insert game, possession, etc here> is better than yours" chest pounding is so last year. Please get over yourself and contribute.

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Re: AKC "Champions"

Post by bigsugar » Fri Jan 13, 2012 8:05 am

Just lock the thread Greg. Heaven forbid anyone talk about a field trialing related topic here.

I won't talk trialing here again. Please accept my apologies.

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Re: AKC "Champions"

Post by ElhewPointer » Fri Jan 13, 2012 8:14 am

doco wrote:
bigsugar wrote:I think to be a champion you should have to win a championship against other good dogs. In a championship trial you are running against better competition then a weekend trial.
If I am not mistaken, in AF in order for the stake to be a championship, it must have a minimum of 12 dogs. So one win in a twelve dog stake qualifies the dog to be titled a Champion. The accumulation of points in an AKC title must include wins and a Major win in a stake of more than 13 dogs. Somewhere the line has to be drawn. I won a 38 dog AKC Open Gun Dog Stake. Was that enough good dogs to qualify her as a Champion?

And, for those of us GSP'ers, the retrieving points need to be almost half of those points. It is a heck of alot easier to train and break dogs if we didn't have to train to retreive. A whole new can of worms is about to open up when I say how easy it is to break dogs that are not required to retrieve. My EP buddies all brag how their dogs have never touched a bird, let alone retreive one, and never will! My new string of pups were retreiving beer cans at 7 weeks old. Guess what they'll never touch until their first retrieving stake? A luxury for me, but a heck of a heartache for alot of other folks that aren't as lucky. I wonder how many AF dogs would stay broke if they were required to finish the job of a complete hunting dog. I'm not coming down on the AF because I can't wait to run a few CH stakes. They are just not that handy or close for me.

On the other hand, I don't think that it is fair to not give credence to the amount of work it takes to put an AKC FC on a dog either. Maybe the AF should require 3 wins and 2 placements in weekend stakes to qualify for a CH Stake instead of one lucky win for the title.

Just another point of view. Not necessarily a good one or one I believe in, but it is just as jaded as saying beat 12 good dogs and you're a CH.
When is the last 12 dog Championship youve seen?

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Re: AKC "Champions"

Post by jimbo&rooster » Fri Jan 13, 2012 8:26 am

bigsugar wrote:Just lock the thread Greg. Heaven forbid anyone talk about a field trialing related topic here.

I won't talk trialing here again. Please accept my apologies.

Sometimes yall remind me of the middle schoolers I teach....

To the original topic. Who cares how a dog got its FC? Buyers know what they are looking for, and should have an understanding of how a title is earned in their respective game. I wouldn't say one is any less than the other. I personally would rather know that a dog had to earn its FC points by winning several weekend trials and by showing some degree of consistency.

Im not saying that AF CH is worth more or less and I often wonder if the # of attempts at an AKC HT or FT title should be factored into the title, but nothing is perfect and life goes on.

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Re: AKC "Champions"

Post by markj » Fri Jan 13, 2012 8:56 am

Anyone else find it strange that you can achieve a "champion" title in the AKC without ever winning a championship? I have often wondered this. I think this is one of the reasons that AKC "champions" are thought of in a lesser light by some then American Field champions.
and the dk folks think any american title is bogus :) lol just thought Iwould throw that out there.

and harley guys make fun of japanese bike riders.

and rugby guys make fun of soccer guys..

man when will it end? find what makes you smile and stick with it, dont knock others fun times or accomplishments.
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Re: deleted

Post by Ken Lynch » Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:54 am

What we have here is a failure to communicate. That is because the word “champion” is not a precise word but rather has different meanings to the reader which are dependent on things not brought to the conversation or writings. Thus this thread will never have a chance of being anything other than an exercise in mental masturbation.
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Re: deleted

Post by kninebirddog » Fri Jan 13, 2012 10:02 am

Seeing that the original poster deleted their post I went a head and locked it.
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