Lesser Breeds

User avatar
birddogger
GDF Junkie
Posts: 3776
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 11:09 pm
Location: Bunker Hill, IL.

Re: Lesser Breeds

Post by birddogger » Mon Jan 16, 2012 1:44 am

I hear ya Munster, I can't imagine why anybody would care what breed another person chooses. I happen to like most all of them, usually each for a different reason but the GSP's happen to have the looks and style that fit what I want and need at this time. That doesn't mean I think they are better or "lesser" but it is easy to find good well bred ones, usually within driving distance, just about anytime I might be in the market for one. Just one more thought, one reason I enjoyed the NAVHDA events was to watch and enjoy the variety of breeds and for the most part, I have admired them all for one reason or another.

Charlie
If you think you can or if you think you can't, you are right either way

User avatar
Cora's Shadow
Rank: Senior Hunter
Posts: 151
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2007 10:06 am
Location: Nebraska

Re: Lesser Breeds

Post by Cora's Shadow » Mon Jan 16, 2012 11:44 am

Can someone please explain to me the appeal of the lesser pointing (or I guess flushing as well) breeds? I m talking Bracco Italianos, Braque du bourbonnais, German Longhair Pointers, Clumber Spaniels, Field Spaniels.... I just don't understand why people would go with a rarer breed when it seems like the more popular breeds are better bred, better proven, more driven ect..
I know I'm a little late here, but wanted to give my thoughts on the OP's original question. I choose to own Deutsch Langhaars because I think they are the best breed for me. I grew up hunting with GSPs and as an adult, have owned an English Setter and a Small Munsterlander. I have trained with countless numbers of GSPs, GWPs, DDs, Griffons, Viszlas, Pudelpointers, Brittanies, etc. in our local NAVHDA chapter and guided with many of these dogs at youth hunts. I am currently helping a friend train her 7-month old Pointer pup. And yet, I still find DLs to best suite my needs as a hunter.

I like dogs that I can take duck hunting in the morning and grouse/rabbit hunting in the afternoon. I like a dog that I can hunt close for woodcock in Wisconsin but run fast and hard all day in South Dakota for pheasants. I like having a dog to blood-track wounded deer during the archery season and I like having a dog that is calm, cooperative, and fast-maturing. In the German system, our dogs must essentially be finished by the time they are 2 years of age. Consequently, we often start force-breaking our dogs at 6-10 months of age and expect them to be steady to wing, shot, and fall by 18 months of age as well. We hunt them early as well. I've had pups pointing/retrieving ruffed grouse at 4 months of age and making marked waterfowl retrieves.

I know that the original poster was trying to make a blanket statement about all less-common breeds, but that is a slippery slope. I won't concede that any popular breed is "better bred" or "better proven" than our DLs. EVERY SINGLE DOG in our dogs' pedigrees has proven their abilities by passing at least 2 hunting tests (usually 3) and has proven their conformation/temperament in at least 1 breed show before they are certified for breeding. EVERY SINGLE DOG in our dogs' pedigrees has had their hips x-rayed as well. I have not seen any GSPs, labs, pointers, etc. where every single dog in the pedigree has a bench championship title, a performance title, and health clearances.

And the comment about all less common breed being less driven is WAY off base. I'm guessing the original poster hasn't even met a DL or some of the other breeds mentioned. Almost every DL I have ever seen making a water retrieve has whimpered or barked with anticipation of making the retrieve. My one female bays like a beagle when she sees a wounded duck trying to swim away. And they hunt hard all day regardless of the temperature, cuts, etc. There are reasons why DLs are not incredibly common yet but it has nothing to do with their ability or their drive. It has a lot more to do with the fact that we really only gained full access to these dogs from Germany in 2008. If anyone would like to meet a DL in person to see what they are really like, please shoot me a PM and I'll put you in touch with someone who owns one nearby.

I don't think that DLs are the best breed in the world for everyone, but I do take some offense when someone says that they don't have any drive or that I can't be a serious hunter since I own them. I don't care if folks want to own a different breed, but there is no need to bash someone else's choice just because you aren't familiar with their dogs.

JKP
Rank: 5X Champion
Posts: 968
Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2009 7:14 pm

Re: Lesser Breeds

Post by JKP » Mon Jan 16, 2012 4:35 pm

And the comment about all less common breed being less driven is WAY off base
You can say that again. I was at the Hegewald in Germany in 2002 for the 100th year celebration...and walked with a group and some dogs I was interested in. When it came to the field search, my friend unleashed his bitch (Aike vom Boeckenhagen) which promptly scorched about 500 yds of hedgerow that surrounded this huge open grass/brush area. He whistled which brought her around to the front about 300 yds out. I can see the German judges just shaking their heads....meanwhile, I'm hoping this dog fails so I can buy her cheap (yeah, I'm that kind of guy). She didn't pass but did well the following week at another test...anyone would have felt right at home in the saddle with that dog.

User avatar
ultracarry
GDF Junkie
Posts: 2602
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2010 12:30 pm
Location: Yucaipa, ca

Re: Lesser Breeds

Post by ultracarry » Mon Jan 16, 2012 5:51 pm

Cora's Shadow wrote:
Can someone please explain to me the appeal of the lesser pointing (or I guess flushing as well) breeds? I m talking Bracco Italianos, Braque du bourbonnais, German Longhair Pointers, Clumber Spaniels, Field Spaniels.... I just don't understand why people would go with a rarer breed when it seems like the more popular breeds are better bred, better proven, more driven ect..
I know I'm a little late here, but wanted to give my thoughts on the OP's original question. I choose to own Deutsch Langhaars because I think they are the best breed for me. I grew up hunting with GSPs and as an adult, have owned an English Setter and a Small Munsterlander. I have trained with countless numbers of GSPs, GWPs, DDs, Griffons, Viszlas, Pudelpointers, Brittanies, etc. in our local NAVHDA chapter and guided with many of these dogs at youth hunts. I am currently helping a friend train her 7-month old Pointer pup. And yet, I still find DLs to best suite my needs as a hunter.

I like dogs that I can take duck hunting in the morning and grouse/rabbit hunting in the afternoon. I like a dog that I can hunt close for woodcock in Wisconsin but run fast and hard all day in South Dakota for pheasants. I like having a dog to blood-track wounded deer during the archery season and I like having a dog that is calm, cooperative, and fast-maturing. In the German system, our dogs must essentially be finished by the time they are 2 years of age. Consequently, we often start force-breaking our dogs at 6-10 months of age and expect them to be steady to wing, shot, and fall by 18 months of age as well. We hunt them early as well. I've had pups pointing/retrieving ruffed grouse at 4 months of age and making marked waterfowl retrieves.

I know that the original poster was trying to make a blanket statement about all less-common breeds, but that is a slippery slope. I won't concede that any popular breed is "better bred" or "better proven" than our DLs. EVERY SINGLE DOG in our dogs' pedigrees has proven their abilities by passing at least 2 hunting tests (usually 3) and has proven their conformation/temperament in at least 1 breed show before they are certified for breeding. EVERY SINGLE DOG in our dogs' pedigrees has had their hips x-rayed as well. I have not seen any GSPs, labs, pointers, etc. where every single dog in the pedigree has a bench championship title, a performance title, and health clearances.

And the comment about all less common breed being less driven is WAY off base. I'm guessing the original poster hasn't even met a DL or some of the other breeds mentioned. Almost every DL I have ever seen making a water retrieve has whimpered or barked with anticipation of making the retrieve. My one female bays like a beagle when she sees a wounded duck trying to swim away. And they hunt hard all day regardless of the temperature, cuts, etc. There are reasons why DLs are not incredibly common yet but it has nothing to do with their ability or their drive. It has a lot more to do with the fact that we really only gained full access to these dogs from Germany in 2008. If anyone would like to meet a DL in person to see what they are really like, please shoot me a PM and I'll put you in touch with someone who owns one nearby.
I don't think that DLs are the best breed in the world for everyone, but I do take some offense when someone says that they don't have any drive or that I can't be a serious hunter since I own them. I don't care if folks want to own a different breed, but there is no need to bash someone else's choice just because you aren't familiar with their dogs.

Since you bash other dl owners for not living up to your expectation and not following your orders, do you blame people for not wanting some of your stock?

User avatar
Munster
Rank: 5X Champion
Posts: 972
Joined: Thu Jul 02, 2009 6:16 pm
Location: La Porte City, IA

Re: Lesser Breeds

Post by Munster » Mon Jan 16, 2012 6:13 pm

ultracarry wrote:
Cora's Shadow wrote:
Can someone please explain to me the appeal of the lesser pointing (or I guess flushing as well) breeds? I m talking Bracco Italianos, Braque du bourbonnais, German Longhair Pointers, Clumber Spaniels, Field Spaniels.... I just don't understand why people would go with a rarer breed when it seems like the more popular breeds are better bred, better proven, more driven ect..
I know I'm a little late here, but wanted to give my thoughts on the OP's original question. I choose to own Deutsch Langhaars because I think they are the best breed for me. I grew up hunting with GSPs and as an adult, have owned an English Setter and a Small Munsterlander. I have trained with countless numbers of GSPs, GWPs, DDs, Griffons, Viszlas, Pudelpointers, Brittanies, etc. in our local NAVHDA chapter and guided with many of these dogs at youth hunts. I am currently helping a friend train her 7-month old Pointer pup. And yet, I still find DLs to best suite my needs as a hunter.

I like dogs that I can take duck hunting in the morning and grouse/rabbit hunting in the afternoon. I like a dog that I can hunt close for woodcock in Wisconsin but run fast and hard all day in South Dakota for pheasants. I like having a dog to blood-track wounded deer during the archery season and I like having a dog that is calm, cooperative, and fast-maturing. In the German system, our dogs must essentially be finished by the time they are 2 years of age. Consequently, we often start force-breaking our dogs at 6-10 months of age and expect them to be steady to wing, shot, and fall by 18 months of age as well. We hunt them early as well. I've had pups pointing/retrieving ruffed grouse at 4 months of age and making marked waterfowl retrieves.

I know that the original poster was trying to make a blanket statement about all less-common breeds, but that is a slippery slope. I won't concede that any popular breed is "better bred" or "better proven" than our DLs. EVERY SINGLE DOG in our dogs' pedigrees has proven their abilities by passing at least 2 hunting tests (usually 3) and has proven their conformation/temperament in at least 1 breed show before they are certified for breeding. EVERY SINGLE DOG in our dogs' pedigrees has had their hips x-rayed as well. I have not seen any GSPs, labs, pointers, etc. where every single dog in the pedigree has a bench championship title, a performance title, and health clearances.

And the comment about all less common breed being less driven is WAY off base. I'm guessing the original poster hasn't even met a DL or some of the other breeds mentioned. Almost every DL I have ever seen making a water retrieve has whimpered or barked with anticipation of making the retrieve. My one female bays like a beagle when she sees a wounded duck trying to swim away. And they hunt hard all day regardless of the temperature, cuts, etc. There are reasons why DLs are not incredibly common yet but it has nothing to do with their ability or their drive. It has a lot more to do with the fact that we really only gained full access to these dogs from Germany in 2008. If anyone would like to meet a DL in person to see what they are really like, please shoot me a PM and I'll put you in touch with someone who owns one nearby.
I don't think that DLs are the best breed in the world for everyone, but I do take some offense when someone says that they don't have any drive or that I can't be a serious hunter since I own them. I don't care if folks want to own a different breed, but there is no need to bash someone else's choice just because you aren't familiar with their dogs.

Since you bash other dl owners for not living up to your expectation and not following your orders, do you blame people for not wanting some of your stock?
:roll: :roll:
http://www.huntwithamunster.com

Dealer for Dogtra, Ruff Tuff and Mud River Need a product, just ask.

User avatar
birddogger
GDF Junkie
Posts: 3776
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 11:09 pm
Location: Bunker Hill, IL.

Re: Lesser Breeds

Post by birddogger » Mon Jan 16, 2012 9:35 pm

I don't think that DLs are the best breed in the world for everyone, but I do take some offense when someone says that they don't have any drive or that I can't be a serious hunter since I own them. I don't care if folks want to own a different breed, but there is no need to bash someone else's choice just because you aren't familiar with their dogs.
Amen!

Charlie
If you think you can or if you think you can't, you are right either way

KellyM87
Rank: Junior Hunter
Posts: 79
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2010 3:14 pm

Re: Lesser Breeds

Post by KellyM87 » Tue Jan 17, 2012 5:09 pm

KellyM87 wrote:Can someone please explain to me the appeal of the lesser pointing (or I guess flushing as well) breeds? I m talking Bracco Italianos, Braque du bourbonnais, German Longhair Pointers, Clumber Spaniels, Field Spaniels.... I just don't understand why people would go with a rarer breed when it seems like the more popular breeds are better bred, better proven, more driven ect..



"bleep" Lions.
Okay.. I wasn't trying to inflame hearts. see the "bleeps lions" at the end? I had to post something that would cause controversy, because I lost a bet. I always wondered this anyways, so I figured it would be a good thing to post. But I was serious when I asked the question. I just seems to me to my young and untrained eyes that they do seem less driven. and yes I am part of Navhda, so I have seen versatile breeds anyways, but no real "rare" breeds unless you consider a spinone or a drathaar. They are not for me. No one really answered my question, 55 posts of going round and round. What originally made you want your rare breed? what drew you to them? I understand about the breeding, and I respect that, I didnt realize so many breeds had such stringent breeding programs. However, in terms of competition on bird abilities, I still think that "american" breeds would win out, hince my proven and driven part.

User avatar
Winchey
Rank: 5X Champion
Posts: 925
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2010 8:22 am
Location: Oromocto New Brunswick, Canada

Re: Lesser Breeds

Post by Winchey » Tue Jan 17, 2012 5:24 pm

I read breed descriptions and at the time in which I got a Small Munsterlander, I simply wanted a dog that would mostly retrieve ducks and point some birds. I liked the temperament description and look of the breed better then the rest of the breeds, and everything I read said they excel at water work. I didn't care about range or style, was looking more for a close working dog. Since the Germans seem to breed their dogs to shine after the shot more so then before, that is the route I went. If you are talking about excelling at American bird competitions the answer is simple. American bread dogs are bread for those competitions where German bread dogs are not bread for those competitions.

User avatar
nikegundog
GDF Junkie
Posts: 1508
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2011 11:21 am
Location: SW Minnesota

Re: Lesser Breeds

Post by nikegundog » Tue Jan 17, 2012 5:52 pm

KellyM87 wrote:
KellyM87 wrote:Can someone please explain to me the appeal of the lesser pointing (or I guess flushing as well) breeds? I m talking Bracco Italianos, Braque du bourbonnais, German Longhair Pointers, Clumber Spaniels, Field Spaniels.... I just don't understand why people would go with a rarer breed when it seems like the more popular breeds are better bred, better proven, more driven ect..



"bleep" Lions.
Okay.. I wasn't trying to inflame hearts. see the "bleeps lions" at the end? I had to post something that would cause controversy, because I lost a bet. I always wondered this anyways, so I figured it would be a good thing to post. But I was serious when I asked the question. I just seems to me to my young and untrained eyes that they do seem less driven. and yes I am part of Navhda, so I have seen versatile breeds anyways, but no real "rare" breeds unless you consider a spinone or a drathaar. They are not for me. No one really answered my question, 55 posts of going round and round. What originally made you want your rare breed? what drew you to them? I understand about the breeding, and I respect that, I didnt realize so many breeds had such stringent breeding programs. However, in terms of competition on bird abilities, I still think that "american" breeds would win out, hince my proven and driven part.
You bet on the Lions? Thats crazy 8)

User avatar
chiendog
Rank: Master Hunter
Posts: 222
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2004 8:34 pm
Location: Great White North

Re: Lesser Breeds

Post by chiendog » Tue Jan 17, 2012 5:55 pm

What originally made you want your rare breed? what drew you to them?
Personally, when I started out I didn't really think about getting into any particular breed. When I was finally in a position to get a dog I just wanted a good individual like one dog I saw that really impressed me. It was a Weim I saw hunting sharptails out here and I thought, wow! I want one just like that (looking back, I now realize the odds of me stumbling over a good Weim in the field were astronomical...so maybe it was fate :) ) And then a few years later, I was in France and met a guy who breeds Pont Audemer Spaniels. He came to Canada twice with his dogs and one of them in particular was outstanding. My wife and I both said wow! I want one just like that so we got a Ponto pup from that breeder.

I think that if I had started out by seeing a really good (place breed name here) instead of a Weim or if a different French breeder came over to hunt with equally outstanding dogs before the Ponto guy came over, I probably would have said wow! I want one just like that and ended up with a (place breed name here).

I am now much more educated on the various breeds than I was when I started, but I am still not really a breed guy. In fact for my next dog, the main thing I am looking for is a lot of white due to my middle aged eyes and the increasing difficulty of seeing my deer-colored dogs in the field. So I will look for an individual...with alot of white in the coat... that makes me say wow! I want one just like that.

I don't really care if it is a Pointer, Setter, French Spaniel or Braque de l'Ariege. Common or rare, its gotta make me say wow! I want one just like that

User avatar
Munster
Rank: 5X Champion
Posts: 972
Joined: Thu Jul 02, 2009 6:16 pm
Location: La Porte City, IA

Re: Lesser Breeds

Post by Munster » Tue Jan 17, 2012 7:28 pm

WOW. I dont know these guys but I think Chiendog and Winchey covered all the bases on why we picked our breed. SInce then, I have been wowed by another breed, but am not sure I am willing to "cheat" on my SM's yet! :lol:
http://www.huntwithamunster.com

Dealer for Dogtra, Ruff Tuff and Mud River Need a product, just ask.

User avatar
ACooper
GDF Premier Member!
Posts: 3397
Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2004 1:37 pm
Location: Sometimes I'm in Oklahoma

Re: Lesser Breeds

Post by ACooper » Tue Jan 17, 2012 7:33 pm

Munster wrote:WOW. I dont know these guys but I think Chiendog and Winchey covered all the bases on why we picked our breed. SInce then, I have been wowed by another breed, but am not sure I am willing to "cheat" on my SM's yet! :lol:
DL?

User avatar
Coveyrise64
Rank: 5X Champion
Posts: 760
Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2004 12:57 am
Location: Oklahoma

Re: Lesser Breeds

Post by Coveyrise64 » Tue Jan 17, 2012 8:07 pm

ACooper wrote:
Munster wrote:WOW. I dont know these guys but I think Chiendog and Winchey covered all the bases on why we picked our breed. SInce then, I have been wowed by another breed, but am not sure I am willing to "cheat" on my SM's yet! :lol:
DL?
No, DK........ :mrgreen:
VC TJ's Highfalutin Hawkeye MH, UTI R.I.P. 4/29/05-12/18/18

Thunderhead's All Jacked Up R.I.P. "My Buddy" 9/9/09-1/27/14

VC TJ's Miss Filson MH, UTI R.I.P. 5/13/03-10/15/14

"I'd rather train for perfection than fix the problems of mediocrity" ~ Me

User avatar
ACooper
GDF Premier Member!
Posts: 3397
Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2004 1:37 pm
Location: Sometimes I'm in Oklahoma

Re: Lesser Breeds

Post by ACooper » Tue Jan 17, 2012 8:08 pm

Coveyrise64 wrote:
ACooper wrote:
Munster wrote:WOW. I dont know these guys but I think Chiendog and Winchey covered all the bases on why we picked our breed. SInce then, I have been wowed by another breed, but am not sure I am willing to "cheat" on my SM's yet! :lol:
DL?
No, DK........ :mrgreen:
Gettin closer!

User avatar
Munster
Rank: 5X Champion
Posts: 972
Joined: Thu Jul 02, 2009 6:16 pm
Location: La Porte City, IA

Re: Lesser Breeds

Post by Munster » Tue Jan 17, 2012 8:40 pm

Coveyrise64 wrote:
ACooper wrote:
Munster wrote:WOW. I dont know these guys but I think Chiendog and Winchey covered all the bases on why we picked our breed. SInce then, I have been wowed by another breed, but am not sure I am willing to "cheat" on my SM's yet! :lol:
DL?
No, DK........ :mrgreen:

LMAO, I guess I had 2 I was going to cheat on my Munsters with. :oops:

No, truth be told it would be the DL if anything. It all goes back to the "I Likes what I Likes". I like dogs like I like my man. Hairy and with a long TAIL :wink: :wink: .

DK's are appealing to me though as I have been around them more and more. But dont like the coat.They are great dogs
http://www.huntwithamunster.com

Dealer for Dogtra, Ruff Tuff and Mud River Need a product, just ask.

User avatar
ultracarry
GDF Junkie
Posts: 2602
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2010 12:30 pm
Location: Yucaipa, ca

Re: Lesser Breeds

Post by ultracarry » Tue Jan 17, 2012 8:43 pm

KellyM87 wrote:
KellyM87 wrote:Can someone please explain to me the appeal of the lesser pointing (or I guess flushing as well) breeds? I m talking Bracco Italianos, Braque du bourbonnais, German Longhair Pointers, Clumber Spaniels, Field Spaniels.... I just don't understand why people would go with a rarer breed when it seems like the more popular breeds are better bred, better proven, more driven ect..



"bleep" Lions.
Okay.. I wasn't trying to inflame hearts. see the "bleeps lions" at the end? I had to post something that would cause controversy, because I lost a bet. I always wondered this anyways, so I figured it would be a good thing to post. But I was serious when I asked the question. I just seems to me to my young and untrained eyes that they do seem less driven. and yes I am part of Navhda, so I have seen versatile breeds anyways, but no real "rare" breeds unless you consider a spinone or a drathaar. They are not for me. No one really answered my question, 55 posts of going round and round. What originally made you want your rare breed? what drew you to them? I understand about the breeding, and I respect that, I didnt realize so many breeds had such stringent breeding programs. However, in terms of competition on bird abilities, I still think that "american" breeds would win out, hince my proven and driven part.
Being a part of NAVHDA don't you see more of the lesser dogs within the breed?

KellyM87
Rank: Junior Hunter
Posts: 79
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2010 3:14 pm

Re: Lesser Breeds

Post by KellyM87 » Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:48 pm

I just mentioned the rare breeds I see when I go to NAVHDA. its mostly shorthairs where I am from. Some Spinones, some Drathaars, some griffons, that is it.

KellyM87
Rank: Junior Hunter
Posts: 79
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2010 3:14 pm

Re: Lesser Breeds

Post by KellyM87 » Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:48 pm

:)

User avatar
Munster
Rank: 5X Champion
Posts: 972
Joined: Thu Jul 02, 2009 6:16 pm
Location: La Porte City, IA

Re: Lesser Breeds

Post by Munster » Tue Jan 17, 2012 10:08 pm

KellyM87 wrote:I just mentioned the rare breeds I see when I go to NAVHDA. its mostly shorthairs where I am from. Some Spinones, some Drathaars, some griffons, that is it.

Thanks for clearing that up Kelly. Nice to see that we didnt actually make the short list on the "lesser breeds" LMAO :lol: :lol: :lol:
http://www.huntwithamunster.com

Dealer for Dogtra, Ruff Tuff and Mud River Need a product, just ask.

KellyM87
Rank: Junior Hunter
Posts: 79
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2010 3:14 pm

Re: Lesser Breeds

Post by KellyM87 » Wed Jan 18, 2012 8:03 am

Munster wrote:
KellyM87 wrote:I just mentioned the rare breeds I see when I go to NAVHDA. its mostly shorthairs where I am from. Some Spinones, some Drathaars, some griffons, that is it.

Thanks for clearing that up Kelly. Nice to see that we didnt actually make the short list on the "lesser breeds" LMAO :lol: :lol: :lol:
you didn't read the whole thing conversation. I said we don't really have any rare breeds, and that the breeders listed above were the rarest.

User avatar
Cora's Shadow
Rank: Senior Hunter
Posts: 151
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2007 10:06 am
Location: Nebraska

Re: Lesser Breeds

Post by Cora's Shadow » Wed Jan 18, 2012 8:11 am

What originally made you want your rare breed? what drew you to them?
I grew up hunting with my dad's lab and uncle's GSPs and they were all decent hunting dogs, but really hyper and never allowed in the house. We also had a really nice Golden Retriever when I was in high school, but she wasn't worth much as a hunting dog. So when I was in college and could finally get my own hunting dog, I wanted a dog that could hunt and be a calm pet in the house. I was also drawn to longer-haired breeds...not sure why. I just always like the look of them more...maybe because the Golden Retriever we had was such a nice dog. So originally, I was planning to get either a setter or a Golden Retriever. I looked at a few Golden kennels but was overwhelmed with the number of health issues and the huge split between hunting dogs and show dogs. It seemed difficult to find a good-looking dog that could hunt. Also, I decided that I would prefer a pointing dog because I thought it would improve my shooting to have a little more time to prepare for a shot.

After watching more pointing dogs work, I discovered that I just preferred that style of hunting as well. So I set about to find a nice English Setter or Gordon Setter. But the problem was that I really got into duck hunting in my last year of college. I now wanted a dog that I could take duck hunting in the morning and sage grouse hunting in the afternoon (I lived in Laramie,Wyoming at the time). I talked to setter breeders but none of them sounded confident that their dogs would enjoy a cold morning duck hunt and retrieve reliably without being force-broke (and at the time, I wasn't confident that I could force-break a dog). So anyways, that led me to versatile dogs. And since I had always found long-haired dogs more aesthetically pleasing, I gravitated towards SMs, LMs, DLs, French Spaniels, Picardies, etc. The French breeds seemed too rare to even find a puppy but there were a lot of SM and LM litters available. I ended up getting a Small Munsterlander puppy from the breeder that lived closest to my parents' house (I would later learn that this is not a good way to select a puppy). I was unsatisfied with that particular dog so after 3 years, I sold him and switched to a similar-looking breed (DL) because of the stringent breeding program.

I would still like to get a really nice English Setter someday. I did get an English Setter pup when my first DL was about 1 year old. She was a Llewellin Setter from a breeder in the Upper Peninsula. Unfortunately, the dog was a weak pointer nd she wouldn't retrieve to save her life. She would go out and nose a dead/shot bird, but then just take off looking for the next one to flush. So we eventually gave her away and have really only had DLs since. But I would like to try get a nice English Setter again someday and try a few field trials. I'll just be a lot pickier on the pedigree and the breeder the next time.

JKP
Rank: 5X Champion
Posts: 968
Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2009 7:14 pm

Re: Lesser Breeds

Post by JKP » Wed Jan 18, 2012 1:31 pm

Common or rare, its gotta make me say wow! I want one just like that
But doing what? What is your "wow factor"? :lol: I'll bet mine is different than yours.

Once you get over the 800lb Gorilla in the room ...the fast and as far as possible bird dog culture...and stop apologizing for liking what you like....it is very understandable why so many folks are attracted to the "lesser" breeds.
There is a certain attitude among some (not all) that the owners of lesser breeds have them because they don't know any better...or they are scared of competition...or don't know what style is....daduh ..daduh..daduh
If you could take the ego out of dogs....we would all be able to understand batter.

When you come down to it, many breeds are interchangeable to a GREAT degree...we can find Pointers, GSP, GWP, Britts, Setters, etc that could all the do the work of the other on a given day...save the very extreme dogs. We own what we do...IMO...because we like the way they look and act when not hunting...as much as the performance. They please us....its not any more complicated than that...and for those "to the max" driven enthusiasts...maybe you'll get it some day.

User avatar
chiendog
Rank: Master Hunter
Posts: 222
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2004 8:34 pm
Location: Great White North

Re: Lesser Breeds

Post by chiendog » Wed Jan 18, 2012 1:45 pm

But doing what?

Hunting the way I like to see a dog hunt.
What is your "wow factor"?
Its nearly an impossible question to answer beyond vague generalities, but I guess a dog that wows me is a dog that works hard every second it is on the ground, handles easy, hunts fast but at a close to medium range, slams point, fetches what I shoot, backs other dogs, finds game where others missed it ... plus a bunch of other impossible-to-describe things that for whatever reason, float my boat.

I mean my wife is beautiful, smart, witty, charming but there are lots of other beautiful, smart, witty, charming women in the world. What made me say WOW the minute I met her? I don't know but I am still saying WOW 25 years later :D

User avatar
Winchey
Rank: 5X Champion
Posts: 925
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2010 8:22 am
Location: Oromocto New Brunswick, Canada

Re: Lesser Breeds

Post by Winchey » Wed Jan 18, 2012 1:46 pm

"save the very extreme dogs. We own what we do...IMO...because we like the way they look and act when not hunting...as much as the performance. They please us....its not any more complicated than that...and for those "to the max" driven enthusiasts...maybe you'll get it some day."

It seems that maybe you still do not "get it". I know an AF AA Runoff Pointer that is as docile and easy going in the house and yard as any dog, hunting dog or otherwise.

JKP
Rank: 5X Champion
Posts: 968
Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2009 7:14 pm

Re: Lesser Breeds

Post by JKP » Wed Jan 18, 2012 2:10 pm

Winchey,

I never used the word "run off" .. seems like everytime I allude to the farthest, hardest charging dogs, I have to use a disclaimer lest someone skip to accusations. My statement was about performance...that dogs except for the very extreme athletes are interchangeable in large part on the basis of performance. Try to read the post again....without the chip on your shoulder :wink:

User avatar
Winchey
Rank: 5X Champion
Posts: 925
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2010 8:22 am
Location: Oromocto New Brunswick, Canada

Re: Lesser Breeds

Post by Winchey » Wed Jan 18, 2012 2:16 pm

JKP wrote:Winchey,

I never used the word "run off" .. seems like everytime I allude to the farthest, hardest charging dogs, I have to use a disclaimer lest someone skip to accusations. My statement was about performance...that dogs except for the very extreme athletes are interchangeable in large part on the basis of performance. Try to read the post again....without the chip on your shoulder :wink:

I think I read it just fine, you took a dig at people who like extreme dogs. And no you did not use the words "run off", I did. Why? Because the dog washed out of the AA league because he is a run off.

eebstein
Rank: Just A Pup
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2007 3:14 pm

Re: Lesser Breeds

Post by eebstein » Wed Jan 18, 2012 7:27 pm

I love that there are so many various breeds of dogs.The best part of NAHDA for me is to just look at all the different breeds hunt in their own way. Its way more fun and adds a little spice to the hunt. I think the whole question is pretty stupid. Why doesn't every one drive the same car since they all do the same thing? Why doesn't everyone use the same shotgun?

If every single person had the same dog it would be boring. How fun would it be if every women in the world looked the same. Haha The more dog breeds the better. They is something perfect for everyone.

User avatar
ezzy333
GDF Junkie
Posts: 16625
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2004 3:14 pm
Location: Dixon IL

Re: Lesser Breeds

Post by ezzy333 » Wed Jan 18, 2012 7:37 pm

eebstein wrote:I love that there are so many various breeds of dogs.The best part of NAHDA for me is to just look at all the different breeds hunt in their own way. Its way more fun and adds a little spice to the hunt. I think the whole question is pretty stupid. Why doesn't every one drive the same car since they all do the same thing? Why doesn't everyone use the same shotgun?

If every single person had the same dog it would be boring. How fun would it be if every women in the world looked the same. Haha The more dog breeds the better. They is something perfect for everyone.
I some time think if we didn't have to deal with dog owners we could have a great time with any dog. Wonder if the dogs sit around and talk about dog handlers range and performance ot is that just us that do that.

Ezzy
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=144
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=207

It's not how many breaths you have taken but how many times it has been taken away!

Has anyone noticed common sense isn't very common anymore.

nldd
Rank: Junior Hunter
Posts: 26
Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2011 4:34 pm
Location: the rock

Re: Lesser Breeds

Post by nldd » Wed Jan 18, 2012 7:51 pm

ezzy333 wrote:
eebstein wrote:I love that there are so many various breeds of dogs.The best part of NAHDA for me is to just look at all the different breeds hunt in their own way. Its way more fun and adds a little spice to the hunt. I think the whole question is pretty stupid. Why doesn't every one drive the same car since they all do the same thing? Why doesn't everyone use the same shotgun?

If every single person had the same dog it would be boring. How fun would it be if every women in the world looked the same. Haha The more dog breeds the better. They is something perfect for everyone.
I some time think if we didn't have to deal with dog owners we could have a great time with any dog. Wonder if the dogs sit around and talk about dog handlers range and performance ot is that just us that do that.

Ezzy
+-1

JKP
Rank: 5X Champion
Posts: 968
Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2009 7:14 pm

Re: Lesser Breeds

Post by JKP » Thu Jan 19, 2012 9:56 am

Why doesn't every one drive the same car since they all do the same thing? Why doesn't everyone use the same shotgun?
We live in America...we are constantly ordering best to worst on everything...nowhere in the world are there so many people making a living criticizing the work, product and choices of others. Being the best is a national obsession...its part of what makes this country great...as long as you realize that perfection is often the enemy of very good...and there is nothing wrong with very good.........while you're working for perfection :lol:

User avatar
birddogger
GDF Junkie
Posts: 3776
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 11:09 pm
Location: Bunker Hill, IL.

Re: Lesser Breeds

Post by birddogger » Fri Jan 20, 2012 5:40 am

JKP wrote:Winchey,

I never used the word "run off" .. seems like everytime I allude to the farthest, hardest charging dogs, I have to use a disclaimer lest someone skip to accusations. My statement was about performance...that dogs except for the very extreme athletes are interchangeable in large part on the basis of performance. Try to read the post again....without the chip on your shoulder :wink:
FWIW, IMO you stated your opinion very well and I didn't see anything to be misunderstood.

Charlie
If you think you can or if you think you can't, you are right either way

User avatar
jcbuttry8
Rank: 5X Champion
Posts: 801
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2011 10:21 pm
Location: Bucks County, PA

Re: Lesser Breeds

Post by jcbuttry8 » Fri Jan 20, 2012 6:10 am

I have owned several different breeds over the years. At one point I had two GSP's and a Gordon Setter, and even had a Britt in the mix. I think for me it was about the work of the breed. I just love being behind a great dog. There are great things that I have seen with each breed that I have owned. I don't believe that it has made it better than another breed just made it great in the field. It had it's own compliments for what I was looking for.

I think it was more of a mood thing. When I was in the mood to move and get at it, my GSP's were just go get em and cover tons of ground. It was always hit it and git it. When I had no where to be and just felt mellow or had one of my uncles or my dad with me or even my grandfather, my britt and especially my gordon was the dog to be behind. It was a great dog to thick cover. I am not saying my GSP's couldn't cover the ground they just worked a different application.

I have seen a few of these lesser breeds out here. I have yet to find anything lesser about them. Again, what they are bred for is much different then what the american breeds are bred for. I now have a pointer and it is so much more different than what I have owned in the past and I don't feel that I will be going with any other breed in the future. It just fits me now. This was a breed back in the day that I made fun of people for owning. Just wasn't a dog that I had respect for. We all change as we grow. What is best then may not float your boat now.

Just as with pointers and GSP's, we need people to have a love for these breeds to make them grow and develop. You need to have that kind of passion for anything to progress or get better. My hat is off to anyone who gives that kind of time to a breed to bring it along.

Joe

User avatar
markj
GDF Junkie
Posts: 2490
Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2005 12:36 pm
Location: Crescent Iowa

Re: Lesser Breeds

Post by markj » Fri Jan 20, 2012 3:54 pm

Geez, people buy what interests them whether it be a car, dog or pair of shoes. Many folks love to belive they have something is better than the othr guy has. It is human nature. I say, let em buy the dog they want and focus on my own. I really dont care who has what unless it is something I feel I want or need :) and I dont want or need anything these days :) cept a shoe box full of twenties.
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=1103
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=5210
"If there are no dogs in Heaven,
then when I die I want to go
where they went."
Will Rogers, 1897-1935

User avatar
Munster
Rank: 5X Champion
Posts: 972
Joined: Thu Jul 02, 2009 6:16 pm
Location: La Porte City, IA

Re: Lesser Breeds

Post by Munster » Fri Jan 20, 2012 7:11 pm

markj wrote: Many folks love to belive they have something is better than the othr guy has.
That is EXACTLY why we have lesser breeds! :roll: Your good! :lol: :lol: :lol:
http://www.huntwithamunster.com

Dealer for Dogtra, Ruff Tuff and Mud River Need a product, just ask.

JKP
Rank: 5X Champion
Posts: 968
Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2009 7:14 pm

Re: Lesser Breeds

Post by JKP » Fri Jan 20, 2012 9:11 pm

what they are bred for is much different then what the american breeds
What would the American breeds be? Do you mean what we have made out of the Pointer? or crossbreeding to create the "American" GSP? or the Setter? or AA Wirehairs?

Forgive me...but I don't see a lot of difference when it comes to "American" bird dogs...they all want to be like Pointers...they all get to 50 lbs and turn white...you may as all call them "door knobs" for as different as they sometimes are.

To me, if you want to "be like Mike", just buy any of the white FT breeds...they're all trying to be like each other.

I apologize for being confrontational...but sounds to me everyone wants a white dog 500 yds in front of the horse.

User avatar
jcbuttry8
Rank: 5X Champion
Posts: 801
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2011 10:21 pm
Location: Bucks County, PA

Re: Lesser Breeds

Post by jcbuttry8 » Fri Jan 20, 2012 9:32 pm

JKP wrote:
what they are bred for is much different then what the american breeds
What would the American breeds be? Do you mean what we have made out of the Pointer? or crossbreeding to create the "American" GSP? or the Setter? or AA Wirehairs?

Forgive me...but I don't see a lot of difference when it comes to "American" bird dogs...they all want to be like Pointers...they all get to 50 lbs and turn white...you may as all call them "door knobs" for as different as they sometimes are.

To me, if you want to "be like Mike", just buy any of the white FT breeds...they're all trying to be like each other.

I apologize for being confrontational...but sounds to me everyone wants a white dog 500 yds in front of the horse.
You are aware I was defending the so called lesser breeds not knocking them.

Joe

User avatar
ezzy333
GDF Junkie
Posts: 16625
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2004 3:14 pm
Location: Dixon IL

Re: Lesser Breeds

Post by ezzy333 » Fri Jan 20, 2012 10:18 pm

JKP wrote:
what they are bred for is much different then what the american breeds
I apologize for being confrontational...but sounds to me everyone wants a white dog 500 yds in front of the horse.


Nice to apoligize and it would be a gret time to stop since you are sorry. You can make a point without being a jerk.

Ezzy
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=144
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=207

It's not how many breaths you have taken but how many times it has been taken away!

Has anyone noticed common sense isn't very common anymore.

User avatar
Winchey
Rank: 5X Champion
Posts: 925
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2010 8:22 am
Location: Oromocto New Brunswick, Canada

Re: Lesser Breeds

Post by Winchey » Sat Jan 21, 2012 6:44 am

"but sounds to me everyone wants a white dog 500 yds in front of the horse."

So what if they do? Are you telling these people that they like lesser breeds and they should want something else? Pretty hypocritical if you ask me.

ckirsch
Rank: 2X Champion
Posts: 435
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 8:46 pm
Location: Rapid City, SD

Re: Lesser Breeds

Post by ckirsch » Sat Jan 21, 2012 7:28 am

ultracarry wrote:Being a part of NAVHDA don't you see more of the lesser dogs within the breed?
Ah, yet another venue snob. As I recall, you were considering taking a run at NAVHDA once your dog is too old and crippled up to do anything else. Good luck with that......

Post Reply