Temperament

[AzDoggin]

In general, do you have to give up drive in the field to get a dog that has a calm, stable disposition around the house, or are the two completely separate dimensions in working dogs?

I'm not talking about a pup - talking after age 2 or so - once the dog has learned some impulse control.

I remember reading Wehle talking about some of his best dogs - they were also the quietest dogs in the kennel - would just sit back and observe.

[fuzznut]

Nope, won't give up one for the other! Stability of temperament, which includes the dog being live-able is high on my list. Can't stand spinning, pacing, leaping in the air dogs.
But that's me as all mine live in the house.
Fuzz

[Stoneface]

IMO dogs feed off ques.

You couldn't be more right.

It's all about attitude and energy between you and your dog. Your dog feeds off of you and reads you like a book. If your body language is anxious and nervous, then your dog will read you and have a tendancy towards becoming anxious and nervous. I have a Malinois. The breed is more used in law enforcement and security than any other breed - the Department of Defense has even started their own breeding program using exclusively Malinois. The dogs are absolutely nuts, typically like a Border Collie on speed. The breed has been known to beat their tail bloody on the inside of a crate because they're so high-energy and just a bundle of nerves. When it comes to energy, Pointers ain't got nothin' on Malinois. But, Nissa, my Malinois, is a total pleasure to have around. Everyone loves her. She is docile and gentle and we used to put on demos for preschools, day cares as nursing homes. It's all about what you tell and convey to your dog with body language and energy. Stay cool, calm, collected and let the dog know when it's getting out of hand. You may want to read Ceasar Millan's books, especially the frist one. Some folks on here may not think much of the Dog Whisperer, but he's the real deal. Just remember, it's all about mentality and conveying attitude and energy on a level the dogs can understand and relate to.

[birddog1968]

In general, do you have to give up drive in the field to get a dog that has a calm, stable disposition around the house, or are the two completely separate dimensions in working dogs?

I'm not talking about a pup - talking after age 2 or so - once the dog has learned some impulse control.

I remember reading Wehle talking about some of his best dogs - they were also the quietest dogs in the kennel - would just sit back and observe.

No you don't have to give up drive, all mine are good citizens.....brains are a great thing in more ways than one, which is what I think Wehle may have been referring to.

[codym]

When we get a new puppy we let them sleep inside, they get house broken, and crate trained. They learn pretty quickly what is expected of them. We then transition them into the kennels/yard at about 6 months. They seem to do very well in the kennels and yard just spending most of their time laying around, but if we bring them inside which we often do they seem to remember their manners. I have pointers for their natural ability and drive, but it is my job to teach them control and disciple both in the house and in the field. So far they are all good citizens that love what they do and where they live. I think the answer to your question is that the dog will do as much as you allow it to do. Teach it young and consistently what you want and you will have a well behaved family member.

[deke]

my pup gets so excited to hunt that it is actually hard to get his collar on because he wont sit still, but if you walked into my house on any given night you would not even know he is there unless you looked for him. In the house he is completely different than out in the field, but it took us quite a while to get him to stay calm in the house.

[Buckeye_V]

No. I have 3 VERY hard driving and going dogs in the field who are big babies in the house. In fact, the biggest and boldest of them all is also the biggest baby. He'll be on your lap as soon as your butt hits the couch.

[deke]

buckeye same problem 60 lb and 110 lb lap dogs are not as fun as you would think.

[highntight]

AZdoggin,

No you don't have to give up drive in the field to have a calm dog around the house.

However, imo, not all dogs will make great dogs in the house. Some dogs to me are all animal. They will never be great dogs in the house. On the other hand, some dogs are very lazy. They will never make great dogs in the field. The key is finding one with a brain, or a switch. When you find that dog, you have found one that's truely fun to own. I know, i have had both.

Some dogs are irritating to own. Some are ok to own. And some are a pleasure to own.

I want the dog that has a switch. They lay around the house like a pet. But, when you cut them loose they are all business in the field. Not all dogs have this switch. But, when you find one that is quiet and clean in the kennel, can come in the house and lay around, can load up in the front seat of the truck with you and mind his/her own business, and can turn the switch on when you cut them loose to hunt or trial, you have a dog that is a pleasure to own.
Atleast, that's my view.

I have a bitch now that is getting ready to whelp. She is a pleasure to be around. She's a pleasure to hunt with. A pleasure to watch hunt. And a pleasure to own.

So the answer to your question imo is, No you don't have to give up drive in the field for a dog with a calm temperment in the house.

[Buckeye_V]

No kidding. 60lbs is bad enough. We have gotten him to lay next to you and he lays his head in your lap. He used to run full boogy title from across the room and vault onto the couch and into your lap. It's a wonder I had any kids. They are all much better now.

[AzDoggin]

....brains are a great thing in more ways than one, which is what I think Wehle may have been referring to.

I think that was Wehle's context also...brains gives a dog the ability to adapt.

I want the dog that has a switch. They lay around the house like a pet. But, when you cut them loose they are all business in the field. ...So the answer to your question imo is, No you don't have to give up drive in the field for a dog with a calm temperment in the house.

That's the one for me as well. We actually have one of those in the house now - my son's border collie mix. Runs like a scalded cat outside, but is a lazy couch potato in the house. In the neighborhood, he is very motivated to do whatever his handler wants him to do, which makes him a pleasure in all settings. However, he can't find birds worth a lick, and he's gunshy as heck...yep, need me a hunting breed!!

Thanks, folks, very helpful discussion. My wife had spoken to a breeder recently who informed her that we would have to give up some hunting ability to gain calmness around the house. I didn't agree, but now have a few other opinions behind me. Seems to me, a bright, cooperative dog can learn what he's expected to do in all settings. I'm happy to hear that's how y'all see it as well.

[nldd]

Azdoggin, another factor to this -calm in the house ,demon in the field ,that hasn't been mentioned is the age of the dog,theirs a big differance between a 1-2 year old and a 4-5 year old dogs off switch,,,time in most cases calms them down. ,,,so yes you can have both,,,but it may take some time.

[Ryman Gun Dog]

AZ,
If you purchase the right dog, such as the real Ryman Gun dog, you give up neither, the developed genetics for being agressive to birds but layed back in the home is bred into the breed line over generations.
Temperment better known as bidability in both the field and home is a genetic trait, some breeds have developed and become dual standard animals, and others have not, investigate the breed line and make your decision accordingly. We have developed a breeders list that we work from for this exact purpose.
RGD/Dave

[birddog1968]

Its getting deep in here

[fuzznut]

My wife had spoken to a breeder recently who informed her that we would have to give up some hunting ability to gain calmness around the house.

I think I would be looking for a different breeder! Look for calm parents, dogs that are dynamo's in the field that live in the house. As you are hearing, there is absolutely no reason to give up one for the other! However, one must train the dog...... the humans and the dog have to know the rules! And then the humans have to learn to stick to them. No different than kids!

Fuzz

[Chukar12]

To the best of my knowledge...no Ryman Setter in here and every dog is a broke hunting and or trial dog...1 or 2 AA even

In a pile at the ranch house after a day of Chukar chasing...nobodys allowed in the kitchen where the linoleum is


Two males... more or less ...well less... laying on the bed in the corner


Helping in the garage on a cold day


temperment is fine...manners are amiss, there are two dog beds that they are supposed to be on at the foot of that bed


on the verge of a nervous breakdown...a two year old all age brittany


it just boils down to excercise, expectations and consistency

[ezzy333]

IMO dogs feed off ques.

No doubt.Mine stop when I que them with the word whoa. They kennel with the que "Kennel", and they get excited if they think we are going hunting when they see me getting ready or I ask if they want to go. But most of the ques they get are spoken or taught by repetitive training. We can use the popular term of the day "Ques" or we can just use the terms we have always used since the training is the same.

Ezzy

[SCT]

I'm hoping the new pointer pup I'm getting out of Mike Branscum's breeding is what they say it is. He and others have said they are super mild around the house and kennel, but are ballistic in the field. She will be different than the other pointers I've owned including my current male. He's great, but he's not a house dog. He'd just rather be outside, unless it's real cold.

Steve

[AzDoggin]

AWESOME pics, Chukar12. I agree that the training and expectations play the majority of the role.

As a young lad, I had a female Britt who was a screaming mimi in the field, and in the yard many times. She would spin "helicopters" outside our patio door - drove my wife crazy - and that's her memory of having a hunting dog around the home. In retrospect, that dog's behavior was caused my lack of training/experience with the breed. Between too little exercise and almost zero training for house manners, she was a wild one. Man could she hunt, though!!

[jcbuttry8]

My little pointer splits time between the kennel and the house. During the day, she is kenneled out back and at night she is brought in. She still shows the manners expected in the house but she still gets rowdy. She's only 9 mos. She will lighten up with age. Most dogs will be able to show manners in the house, but be careful of your expectations with age. Pup's are still pup's.

When she see me getting the muck boots out she goes crazy. She heads to the front door and just howls. The drive to the club is about 40 min and she wimpers and cries the whole way there. The rest of the time, in the house, she lays around and just watches the fam.

Joe

[SHORTFAT]

My 2 year old EP is the same way... for the most part she is starting to calm down in the house... but she will let you know when she wants to play too... still plenty of puppy in there and with a teenage son it doesn't take much to get the two of them cranked up... But it's all good and she knows when I say "No more!" I think she will keep getting better in the house as she gets older. My Lab did at three and he was great then. He never lost his hunting drive and I had to watch so I didn't let him over do it when he was into his "teens". The Pointer is developing the same way... You don't have to give up one to get the other, but I bet it could seem that way if a dog is never trained in the simple disciplines of maners, IE: "No, sit, stay, lay down", ect... like anything else...